k3 NR Audio level increase
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I believe Bill W4ZV hit it on the head with his comment, a couple
messages back (ref. below) I was having this problem until I adjusted my RX EQ so the desired CW freq. was at zero or +1, and not higher. Now it's not a problem. Windy KM5Q > Most likely it's due to setting RX EQ to positive settings for some > bands: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/elecraft@.../msg71174.html > > 73, Bill ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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My test results were obtained with all RX EQ setting set to 0.
73 -- Joe KB8AP On Apr 25, 2009, at 5:38 PM, KM5Q wrote: > I believe Bill W4ZV hit it on the head with his comment, a couple > messages back (ref. below) > > I was having this problem until I adjusted my RX EQ so the desired CW > freq. was at zero or +1, and not higher. Now it's not a problem. > > Windy KM5Q > > >> Most likely it's due to setting RX EQ to positive settings for some >> bands: >> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/elecraft@.../msg71174.html >> >> 73, Bill > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: k3 NR Audio level increase
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In reply to this post by Bob Cunnings NW8L
Bob
When in USB/LSB, NR does tend to totally null out carriers. CW does make that "wup-wup" sound as it's notched out. I'm not sure why NR would be acting as an "Auto Notch" but this does seem to be the case. Don't know about your red light...Do you have a mic connected? Steve Ellington [hidden email] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Cunnings" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] k3 NR Audio level increase I've only just now noticed that the "oscillation" when NR is enabled that I hear when tuning through an S9 carrier in USB/LSB happens only when VOX is enabled. In fact, I just now noticed that the red TX indicator is illuminated when this happens - although there is no indication of power out on either the K3 or the outboard power meter. So with AGC SLP=5, THR=5, NR enabled, VOX enabled, tuning through S9 carrier triggers this on USB/LSB, but not CW. Very strange. Bob NW8L On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Bob Cunnings <[hidden email]> wrote: > Apparently NR *is* upstream of AGC, since a while back NR was > disallowed unless AGC was enabled [1] in order, according to K2VCO, to > prevent instability [2]. > > By the way, I can observe this instability (a "wup-wup" oscillation) > in LSB/USB modes with an S9 carrier, and AGC settings on the "light" > side (high threshold, low slope, with THR=8 and SLP=0 being the > extreme). I ran into this tuning through shortwave BC stations with NR > enabled with THR and SLP set to 5. I'm using firmware version 3.11. > > What seems odd to me is that although I can reproduce the audio level > increase cases observed by others when NR is enabled, the S-meter > indication doesn't change - I suppose that the S-meter pickoff point > is upstream of NR? > > On the flip side you mention, if notch filtering was before AGC as you > wish, would you expect the S-meter indication to change when the notch > filter is active? > > Bob NW8L > > [1] http://www.mail-archive.com/elecraft@.../msg58245.html > [2] http://www.mail-archive.com/elecraft@.../msg60930.html > > On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> > wrote: >> >> It's not working as it should ... there should be no volume >> change when engaging NR. Noise reduction should work on the >> audio AFTER AGC. If anything, the test results below should >> show a very slight drop with NR due to the removal of the >> unwanted (broadband) components but the peak level should >> not change. >> >> This NR problem is the flip side of the issue with the notch >> filter ... Notch is working AFTER the AGC where it should >> work before AGC while NR is working before the AGC where it >> should work AFTER the AGC. >> >> 73, >> >> ... Joe, W4TV >> > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: k3 NR Audio level increase
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Yes, I've noticed the tendency of NR to null out carriers, which is
easy to observe when VOX is off. But with VOX on, the phenomenon I'm observing is quite different than that - a "wup-wup-wup" oscillation with a period of a second or so that may persist for a considerable time after it is triggered by slowly tuning through the carrier. The more aggressive the NR setting, the more vulnerable it seems, but with a strong carrier it can be triggered at any setting. No, I have no microphone connected, and no computer. When this occurs, the red TX indicator does *not* light if K3 is in TEST mode, that's why I hadn't noticed it earlier - I had the rig in TEST mode at the time. Bob NW8L On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Steve Ellington <[hidden email]> wrote: > Bob > When in USB/LSB, NR does tend to totally null out carriers. CW does make > that "wup-wup" sound as it's notched out. I'm not sure why NR would be > acting as an "Auto Notch" but this does seem to be the case. > Don't know about your red light...Do you have a mic connected? > > Steve Ellington > [hidden email] > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Cunnings" <[hidden email]> > To: <[hidden email]> > Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 7:39 PM > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] k3 NR Audio level increase > > > I've only just now noticed that the "oscillation" when NR is enabled > that I hear when tuning through an S9 carrier in USB/LSB happens only > when VOX is enabled. In fact, I just now noticed that the red TX > indicator is illuminated when this happens - although there is no > indication of power out on either the K3 or the outboard power meter. > > So with AGC SLP=5, THR=5, NR enabled, VOX enabled, tuning through S9 > carrier triggers this on USB/LSB, but not CW. > > Very strange. > > Bob NW8L > > On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Bob Cunnings <[hidden email]> > wrote: >> >> Apparently NR *is* upstream of AGC, since a while back NR was >> disallowed unless AGC was enabled [1] in order, according to K2VCO, to >> prevent instability [2]. >> >> By the way, I can observe this instability (a "wup-wup" oscillation) >> in LSB/USB modes with an S9 carrier, and AGC settings on the "light" >> side (high threshold, low slope, with THR=8 and SLP=0 being the >> extreme). I ran into this tuning through shortwave BC stations with NR >> enabled with THR and SLP set to 5. I'm using firmware version 3.11. >> >> What seems odd to me is that although I can reproduce the audio level >> increase cases observed by others when NR is enabled, the S-meter >> indication doesn't change - I suppose that the S-meter pickoff point >> is upstream of NR? >> >> On the flip side you mention, if notch filtering was before AGC as you >> wish, would you expect the S-meter indication to change when the notch >> filter is active? >> >> Bob NW8L >> >> [1] http://www.mail-archive.com/elecraft@.../msg58245.html >> [2] http://www.mail-archive.com/elecraft@.../msg60930.html >> >> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> >> wrote: >>> >>> It's not working as it should ... there should be no volume >>> change when engaging NR. Noise reduction should work on the >>> audio AFTER AGC. If anything, the test results below should >>> show a very slight drop with NR due to the removal of the >>> unwanted (broadband) components but the peak level should >>> not change. >>> >>> This NR problem is the flip side of the issue with the notch >>> filter ... Notch is working AFTER the AGC where it should >>> work before AGC while NR is working before the AGC where it >>> should work AFTER the AGC. >>> >>> 73, >>> >>> ... Joe, W4TV >>> >> > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Bob Cunnings NW8L
Bob,
Regarding your message on the topic of - k3 NR Audio level increase - you mentioned the relation of S-meter and notch. Yes, I certainly would expect the notch to be inside the agc loop so that when I notch a strong signal, the underlying weak signal would come up (and the s-meter then showing the strength of the weak signal). At this time, this is not the case. If I compare it to an analog receiver, the notch sounds like an AF notch instead of an IF notch. I prefer the IF notch. Of course, the notching in the K3 is done in digital IF, but please Elecraft, can you bring the notch in the AGC loop. With all that dynamice range of the K3, that should be possible? (I'm not a DSP programmer so I donot know what I'm asking of you) 73, Arie PA3A -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: [hidden email] - Bob Cunnings On the flip side you mention, if notch filtering was before AGC as you wish, would you expect the S-meter indication to change when the notch filter is active? Bob NW8L ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 10:51:04 +0200, "Arie Kleingeld PA3A"
<[hidden email]> wrote: >Bob, > >Regarding your message on the topic of - k3 NR Audio level increase - >you mentioned the relation of S-meter and notch. > >Yes, >I certainly would expect the notch to be inside the agc loop so that >when I notch a strong signal, the underlying weak signal would come up >(and the s-meter then showing the strength of the weak signal). > >At this time, this is not the case. If I compare it to an analog >receiver, the notch sounds like an AF notch instead of an IF notch. I >prefer the IF notch. >Of course, the notching in the K3 is done in digital IF, but please >Elecraft, can you bring the notch in the AGC loop. With all that >dynamice range of the K3, that should be possible? >(I'm not a DSP programmer so I donot know what I'm asking of you) > >73, >Arie PA3A > I would like for the notch to be narrower. Tom, N5GE K3 #806, K3 #1055 XV144, XV432 W1 and other small kits. http://www.n5ge.com ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
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Re: k3 NR Audio level increase
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In reply to this post by Bob Cunnings NW8L
After thinking further about Steve's question about whether a mic was
connected or not, I found the cause of the problem -- line in and line out were connected to a computer sound card, which although powered down, apparently provided enough coupling between line out and line in to drive the VOX when tuning through the carrier with NR on. When doing so the line out level apparently gets very high, at least briefly. The line out level was set to 10, line in gain to 22. With the cables removed from the K3 there is no problem. So it's a result of unintended coupling, it all makes perfect sense now. Thanks Steve! Bob NW8L On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 7:30 PM, Bob Cunnings <[hidden email]> wrote: > Yes, I've noticed the tendency of NR to null out carriers, which is > easy to observe when VOX is off. But with VOX on, the phenomenon I'm > observing is quite different than that - a "wup-wup-wup" oscillation > with a period of a second or so that may persist for a considerable > time after it is triggered by slowly tuning through the carrier. > > The more aggressive the NR setting, the more vulnerable it seems, but > with a strong carrier it can be triggered at any setting. > > No, I have no microphone connected, and no computer. > > When this occurs, the red TX indicator does *not* light if K3 is in > TEST mode, that's why I hadn't noticed it earlier - I had the rig in > TEST mode at the time. > > Bob NW8L > > On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Steve Ellington <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Bob >> When in USB/LSB, NR does tend to totally null out carriers. CW does make >> that "wup-wup" sound as it's notched out. I'm not sure why NR would be >> acting as an "Auto Notch" but this does seem to be the case. >> Don't know about your red light...Do you have a mic connected? >> >> Steve Ellington >> [hidden email] >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Cunnings" <[hidden email]> >> To: <[hidden email]> >> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 7:39 PM >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] k3 NR Audio level increase >> >> >> >> Bob NW8L >> >> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Bob Cunnings <[hidden email]> >> wrote: >>> >>> Apparently NR *is* upstream of AGC, since a while back NR was >>> disallowed unless AGC was enabled [1] in order, according to K2VCO, to >>> prevent instability [2]. >>> >>> By the way, I can observe this instability (a "wup-wup" oscillation) >>> in LSB/USB modes with an S9 carrier, and AGC settings on the "light" >>> side (high threshold, low slope, with THR=8 and SLP=0 being the >>> extreme). I ran into this tuning through shortwave BC stations with NR >>> enabled with THR and SLP set to 5. I'm using firmware version 3.11. >>> >>> What seems odd to me is that although I can reproduce the audio level >>> increase cases observed by others when NR is enabled, the S-meter >>> indication doesn't change - I suppose that the S-meter pickoff point >>> is upstream of NR? >>> >>> On the flip side you mention, if notch filtering was before AGC as you >>> wish, would you expect the S-meter indication to change when the notch >>> filter is active? >>> >>> Bob NW8L >>> >>> [1] http://www.mail-archive.com/elecraft@.../msg58245.html >>> [2] http://www.mail-archive.com/elecraft@.../msg60930.html >>> >>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> It's not working as it should ... there should be no volume >>>> change when engaging NR. Noise reduction should work on the >>>> audio AFTER AGC. If anything, the test results below should >>>> show a very slight drop with NR due to the removal of the >>>> unwanted (broadband) components but the peak level should >>>> not change. >>>> >>>> This NR problem is the flip side of the issue with the notch >>>> filter ... Notch is working AFTER the AGC where it should >>>> work before AGC while NR is working before the AGC where it >>>> should work AFTER the AGC. >>>> >>>> 73, >>>> >>>> ... Joe, W4TV >>>> >>> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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