new K3/0 Mini

[Jorge Diez - CX6VM-2]

Hello

any idea if will be a new control radio for remote? Like K3/0 Mini with
remoterig integrated inside it?

Maybe for Dayton will have it?

--
73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W
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[AE4ED]

A K3/0 that could directly connect over the internet with a K3s (K3s+ or
K4) is really needed.  The remoterig is relatively difficult and old tech.
The client server architecture like flex is using is what is needed.
73,
Fred
AE4ED

On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 8:12 AM Jorge Diez - CX6VM <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hello
>
> any idea if will be a new control radio for remote? Like K3/0 Mini with
> remoterig integrated inside it?
>
> Maybe for Dayton will have it?
>
> --
> 73,
> Jorge
> CX6VM/CW5W
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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[Elecraft mailing list]

 Back when I was traveling a lot I considered getting the old style K3/0(the full size one)and building all of the remote hardware into it, so it would be all self contained in one box.


    On Thursday, February 28, 2019, 9:12:51 AM EST, Jorge Diez - CX6VM <[hidden email]> wrote:  
 
 Hello

any idea if will be a new control radio for remote? Like K3/0 Mini with
remoterig integrated inside it?

Maybe for Dayton will have it?

--
73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W
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[Peter W2IRT]

I couldn't agree more. I'd buy the hell out of that combination. I'd go
further, and would like to see a smaller physical sized remote for easy
traveling. Fewer physical controls but much less size and weight.

 - pjd

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On
Behalf Of Fred Massey
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 9:20 AM
To: Jorge Diez - CX6VM <[hidden email]>
Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] new K3/0 Mini

A K3/0 that could directly connect over the internet with a K3s (K3s+ or
K4) is really needed.  The remoterig is relatively difficult and old tech.
The client server architecture like flex is using is what is needed.
73,
Fred
AE4ED

On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 8:12 AM Jorge Diez - CX6VM <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hello
>
> any idea if will be a new control radio for remote? Like K3/0 Mini
> with remoterig integrated inside it?
>
> Maybe for Dayton will have it?
>
> --
> 73,
> Jorge
> CX6VM/CW5W
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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[Jorge Diez - CX6VM-2]

That’s the idea, all contained in one box, wired internally

I know is possible, and already done, but never to sell it

But Fred’s idea is better, just don’t know if it’s possible with actual K3 or K3s or will need a complete  new radio

73,
Jorge



Enviado desde mi iPhone

El 28 feb. 2019, a la(s) 11:38, Harry Yingst via Elecraft <[hidden email]> escribió:

> Back when I was traveling a lot I considered getting the old style K3/0(the full size one)and building all of the remote hardware into it, so it would be all self contained in one box.
>
>
>   On Thursday, February 28, 2019, 9:12:51 AM EST, Jorge Diez - CX6VM <[hidden email]> wrote:  
>
> Hello
>
> any idea if will be a new control radio for remote? Like K3/0 Mini with
> remoterig integrated inside it?
>
> Maybe for Dayton will have it?
>
> --
> 73,
> Jorge
> CX6VM/CW5W
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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[AE4ED]

It would be ideal to also include the band scope of the p3 into the
solution.  Perhaps the integration of the solution could be encapsulated
into a new P3.  The functionality of remoterig can be in the new P3, and
the P3 scope data could be sent digitally over the internet as well.

On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 10:09 AM Jorge Diez (CX6VM-CW5W) <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> That’s the idea, all contained in one box, wired internally
>
> I know is possible, and already done, but never to sell it
>
> But Fred’s idea is better, just don’t know if it’s possible with actual K3
> or K3s or will need a complete  new radio
>
> 73,
> Jorge
>
>
>
> Enviado desde mi iPhone
>
> El 28 feb. 2019, a la(s) 11:38, Harry Yingst via Elecraft <
> [hidden email]> escribió:
>
> > Back when I was traveling a lot I considered getting the old style
> K3/0(the full size one)and building all of the remote hardware into it, so
> it would be all self contained in one box.
> >
> >
> >   On Thursday, February 28, 2019, 9:12:51 AM EST, Jorge Diez - CX6VM <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hello
> >
> > any idea if will be a new control radio for remote? Like K3/0 Mini with
> > remoterig integrated inside it?
> >
> > Maybe for Dayton will have it?
> >
> > --
> > 73,
> > Jorge
> > CX6VM/CW5W
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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[Elecraft mailing list]

Fred:


> On Feb 28, 2019, at 8:20 AM, Fred Massey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> A K3/0 that could directly connect over the internet with a K3s (K3s+ or
> K4) is really needed.  The remoterig is relatively difficult and old tech.
> The client server architecture like flex is using is what is needed.


I use the existing K3/0-Mini and Remote Rig with my K3 and the Flex-6700 through Maestro remotely.  Both approaches have their advantages and disadvantages and in essence we’re comparing apples to oranges.  

The K3 approach through Remote Rig is admittedly ‘kludgy’ given external boxes, cabling, and settings.  However, once up and running it is very good and reliable. Most importantly, the system requires little bandwidth for radio control and audio. I can use the K3 remote system controlling a K3 station in rural southeast Georgia which has a DSL connection and max upload of 1.2 MBps.  In most cases, it is 768 Mbps.  In addition, it is a ’self-contained’ system where no one else has connectivity and the connection is directly between the remote and the K3.  I am not dependent upon Elecraft to maintain a system for managing my connections.  However, this approach also requires separate means to manage the KPA500 and KAT500.

The Remote Rig RC-1216H provides a web interface for the KPA500 and I use a second RC-1216H to control the rotor (Green Heron RT-21 managing an Orion Rotor).  Of course, there isn’t a panadapter remote option which would take uplink bandwidth. What I miss is the direct controllability of the KAT500 which requires the KAT500 utility to be controlled remotely.  I’ve done this using a Serial-to-Ethernet converter, but I don’t llke it because it requires a PC to run it.  I hope at some point that Remote Rig would upgrade the firmware to manage the KAT500 so that I can use any web-capable device (iPad, iPhone, Mac, PC, etc.).  

Overall, the system works very well and I’ve been using it since September 2014 without problems.  I now keep a K3/0-Mini system at two different locations (Texas and New England) both of which cannot support a ham station on site.  

The Flex System overcomes some of the weaknesses of the K3 approach and of course it has a remote panadapter capabiity.  But it has taken Flex over five years to provide the remote capability at significantly higher cost and requires greater upload bandwidth.  SmartSDR 2.0 was introduced in 2017 which means for four years I could only operate the Flex-6700 when at the shack.  Flex’s approach is dependent upon a server-based system to establish a secure link, a license fee if you’re upgrading from Version 1 to Version 2 or Version 2 to (just announced) Version 3 of SmartSDR.  Flex Radio has to maintain a server system to control access remotely.  The PGXL amplifier can be controlled directly through Maestro or a PC running SmartSDR v2.xx operating from a remote site.  However, the “Tuner Genius”  that is promised to go with the PGXL has not been released, so I’m limited to using my EFHW antenna to the KAT500 and the K3 setup since I do need to use a tuner with it.  I will say that the bandwidth requirements of the Flex under the current V2.49 SmartSDR is significantly less than in the past so it works more reliably in “Low Bandwidth" mode.  I also keep a Maestro in both Texas and New England.  

Having two different remote systems with different feature sets does provide some advantages:

-Redundancy. In the event one system has a remote issue, I have the other to use as a backup.

-Flexibility.  I like to ‘listen’ so much of my time is spent listening or participating on nets.  The K3 setup works well since I’m not particularly “hunting” for signals where a panadapter would be useful.  Simply turn on the K3 and I’m on the last frequency I was tuned or I can enter the frequency of interest.  I have the tuner and amplifier as needed, and 500W is usually more than sufficient for my needs.    The Flex is more helpful if I’m searching the bands with a panadapter/waterfall, but the PGXL is only helpful on 10-15-20 where I have a yagi and don’t need to a tuner capable of handling the PGXL.  Due to bandwidth issues, the Flex system does sometime ‘hiccup’ due to missed packets though this happens a lot less than previously.

-Space.  I spend 90% of my operating time running remote.  At my locations in Texas and New England I have the Maestro and K3/0-Mini sitting on my 30” x 60’ office desk by the 27” Apple Display with West Mountain Radio external speakers that can be used with either system.  The Remote Rig equipment, cabling, network ethernet switch, 120 VAC surge protected hub that powers the Remote Rig equipment, network switch, Maestro, Speakers, K3/0-Mini are either sitting on the floor or held in place with cable ties attached around the desk legs, out-of-the-way and out-of-sight.  Of course, the ham shack itself in Georgia is a different matter given the amount of equipment installed, but the operating position has the real estate to handle it. (approximately 12 ft. x 30” of desk space).  

-Equipment Complexity:  The K3/0-Mini and Remote Rig RRC-1258 are relatively simple devices.  I’ve not had any issues with these devices and while there have been firmware upgrades they are few and not necessarily required.  The Maestro is a much more complex piece of equipment which is essentially a device with built-in tablet that takes significant time to boot up and has firmware that controls the various knobs and indications and of course communicates with the Flex server to establish a connection to my Flex-6700.  Any update to SmartSDR (the most recent was last December 2018 to v2.49 while Flex has announced that v3.0 will be available in March 2019) requires an update to the Flex-6700 and Maestro.  This can be done remotely, but it also reflects the greater complexity of the system.

My original Maestro (purchased new in 2017) has been recalled once at no charge and sent back once for non-warranty repairs.  

-Isolation.  Running remote reduces the potential for surge issues where I’m actually operating as there are no external antennas.  

At the ham shack in Southeast Georgia, I have the K3 equipment physically separate from the Flex Equipment going through separate ethernet switches and isolated with Fiber Optic Converters for CAT5 connections to help reduce the probability of surge problems or a  ethernet switch failure in the shack taking down both systems. RF connection of both systems to the antennas and dummy load is thorough an Antenna Genius which provides high isolation between antenna ports. The DSL modem and separate router are in the house while the ham shack itself is located in an air conditioned room located in the detached garage.  I run a fiber optic cable between the house and ham shack to further isolate the network equipment in the house from the shack.

Bottom line is that I like both systems and each system offers capabilities that the other does not have.  Given that I’m over 1,100 miles from the ham shack most of the time, I’ve benefited from redundancy because things can go wrong and cannot be fixed until my next trip to southeast Georgia. Over the past year I’ve had issues with one or the other system but usually the other system is still up and running.  

From the user’s perspective, I do suggest that one needs to to carefully consider how exactly they will operate their system and what level of investment ($$$, sweat equity, real estate) they’re wiling or able to put into a remote system.  Flex’s approach is certainly successful, but it is a complex and more expensive system that has taken many more years to develop than what Flex initially announced.  Electraft’s approach is ’simpler’ in terms of making it possible to operate remotely, but it does appear relatively ‘kludgy’ given that it could certainly be streamlined if they thought it is worth the time and effort.    If one is focused on ’pickup and go’ remote operation, the Flex Maestro (or SmartSDR on a laptop or SmartSDR for iOS on an Apple iPad) is certainly easier to manage than taking the K3/0-Mini with remote Rig setup.  i have transported both the Maestro and K3/0-Mini w/Remote Rig in their respective Pelican Cases between locations before so I appreciate the steps needed to take down and setup this equipment.  I later purchased used K3/O-Mini and Maestro devices to eliminate the need to transport (and take up space in my vehicle) between Texas (Fall/Winter) and New England (Spring/Summer) when cargo space is at a premium when transporting the XYL, family dog and the clothing and other items needed at the other QTH.  


FWIW,

Barry Baines, WD4ASW
(Keller, TX)

> 73,
> Fred
> AE4ED
>
> On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 8:12 AM Jorge Diez - CX6VM <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello
>>
>> any idea if will be a new control radio for remote? Like K3/0 Mini with
>> remoterig integrated inside it?
>>
>> Maybe for Dayton will have it?
>>
>> --
>> 73,
>> Jorge
>> CX6VM/CW5W
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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[Rick WA6NHC-2]

That is something that I requested some years ago and again this year. 
To make a box that allows control of the K3(S) using the same port as
the KPod plus a connection to Line in/out for audio.

Using something like an FPGA, with networking integrated, it appears to
be a simple matter to convert the K3(S) into a network device (but WELL
above my ability level), which would simplify remote operations without
the need for a computer (and capable of using battery power).  A
matching app (or at least the data exchange) would complete this; tablet
ops are pretty nice, BlueTooth to the tablet/phone for managed audio.

I've worked around it with a computer, TeamViewer and Skype, but there
is no reason it can't be simplified.  Using the phone internet, one
could put up a remote where needed (EMCOMM or fun).

I really think that it would be a very useful addition to the K Line;
when they have the time.  It would place the K3(S) next to the Flex for
simpler remote ops.

The app should also consider management of an amp, tuner, rotor or other
auxiliary devices; if it gets that far.

Rick NHC


On 2/28/2019 8:05 AM, Peter Dougherty wrote:

> I couldn't agree more. I'd buy the hell out of that combination. I'd go
> further, and would like to see a smaller physical sized remote for easy
> traveling. Fewer physical controls but much less size and weight.
>
>   - pjd
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On
> Behalf Of Fred Massey
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 9:20 AM
> To: Jorge Diez - CX6VM <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] new K3/0 Mini
>
> A K3/0 that could directly connect over the internet with a K3s (K3s+ or
> K4) is really needed.  The remoterig is relatively difficult and old tech.
> The client server architecture like flex is using is what is needed.
> 73,
> Fred
> AE4ED
>
> On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 8:12 AM Jorge Diez - CX6VM <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello
>>
>> any idea if will be a new control radio for remote? Like K3/0 Mini
>> with remoterig integrated inside it?
>>
>> Maybe for Dayton will have it?
>>
>> --
>> 73,
>> Jorge
>> CX6VM/CW5W
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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[Mitch Wolfson DJ0QN / K7DX-2]

Barry,

I have been using serial to ethernet servers for over 10 years to
control rotors, amplifiers and other serial devices. You set these up
once and can forget about them. You install a virtual serial port on the
control PC for which you can use any kind of client software to control
that device, but there is of course no web interface. No local PC on the
radio side needs to be running. I use these devices instead of the
(expensive) dedicated RC-1216H devices that only provide a web
interface. My favorite ones are the Lantronix UDS2100, which I have
bought over Ebay.

Note that the WebSwitch 1216H (not the RC-1216H) allows rotor control
and also has a serial port server to provide a virtual serial port. This
port can however only be used for the rotor, plus the web interface and
virtual serial port can not be used at the same time.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX

--
Mitch Wolfson  K7DX / DJ0QN
10285 Boca Cir, Naples, FL 34109
Skype: mitchwo
USA: Home:[phone] - Mobile:[phone]
Germany: Home:[phone] - Mobile/WhatsApp:[phone]

On 28.02.2019 11:56, Barry Baines via Elecraft wrote:

> Fred:
>
>
>> On Feb 28, 2019, at 8:20 AM, Fred Massey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> A K3/0 that could directly connect over the internet with a K3s (K3s+ or
>> K4) is really needed.  The remoterig is relatively difficult and old tech.
>> The client server architecture like flex is using is what is needed.
>
> I use the existing K3/0-Mini and Remote Rig with my K3 and the Flex-6700 through Maestro remotely.  Both approaches have their advantages and disadvantages and in essence we’re comparing apples to oranges.
>
> The K3 approach through Remote Rig is admittedly ‘kludgy’ given external boxes, cabling, and settings.  However, once up and running it is very good and reliable. Most importantly, the system requires little bandwidth for radio control and audio. I can use the K3 remote system controlling a K3 station in rural southeast Georgia which has a DSL connection and max upload of 1.2 MBps.  In most cases, it is 768 Mbps.  In addition, it is a ’self-contained’ system where no one else has connectivity and the connection is directly between the remote and the K3.  I am not dependent upon Elecraft to maintain a system for managing my connections.  However, this approach also requires separate means to manage the KPA500 and KAT500.
>
> The Remote Rig RC-1216H provides a web interface for the KPA500 and I use a second RC-1216H to control the rotor (Green Heron RT-21 managing an Orion Rotor).  Of course, there isn’t a panadapter remote option which would take uplink bandwidth. What I miss is the direct controllability of the KAT500 which requires the KAT500 utility to be controlled remotely.  I’ve done this using a Serial-to-Ethernet converter, but I don’t llke it because it requires a PC to run it.  I hope at some point that Remote Rig would upgrade the firmware to manage the KAT500 so that I can use any web-capable device (iPad, iPhone, Mac, PC, etc.).
>
> Overall, the system works very well and I’ve been using it since September 2014 without problems.  I now keep a K3/0-Mini system at two different locations (Texas and New England) both of which cannot support a ham station on site.
>
> The Flex System overcomes some of the weaknesses of the K3 approach and of course it has a remote panadapter capabiity.  But it has taken Flex over five years to provide the remote capability at significantly higher cost and requires greater upload bandwidth.  SmartSDR 2.0 was introduced in 2017 which means for four years I could only operate the Flex-6700 when at the shack.  Flex’s approach is dependent upon a server-based system to establish a secure link, a license fee if you’re upgrading from Version 1 to Version 2 or Version 2 to (just announced) Version 3 of SmartSDR.  Flex Radio has to maintain a server system to control access remotely.  The PGXL amplifier can be controlled directly through Maestro or a PC running SmartSDR v2.xx operating from a remote site.  However, the “Tuner Genius”  that is promised to go with the PGXL has not been released, so I’m limited to using my EFHW antenna to the KAT500 and the K3 setup since I do need to use a tuner with it.  I will say that the bandwidth requirements of the Flex under the current V2.49 SmartSDR is significantly less than in the past so it works more reliably in “Low Bandwidth" mode.  I also keep a Maestro in both Texas and New England.
>
> Having two different remote systems with different feature sets does provide some advantages:
>
> -Redundancy. In the event one system has a remote issue, I have the other to use as a backup.
>
> -Flexibility.  I like to ‘listen’ so much of my time is spent listening or participating on nets.  The K3 setup works well since I’m not particularly “hunting” for signals where a panadapter would be useful.  Simply turn on the K3 and I’m on the last frequency I was tuned or I can enter the frequency of interest.  I have the tuner and amplifier as needed, and 500W is usually more than sufficient for my needs.    The Flex is more helpful if I’m searching the bands with a panadapter/waterfall, but the PGXL is only helpful on 10-15-20 where I have a yagi and don’t need to a tuner capable of handling the PGXL.  Due to bandwidth issues, the Flex system does sometime ‘hiccup’ due to missed packets though this happens a lot less than previously.
>
> -Space.  I spend 90% of my operating time running remote.  At my locations in Texas and New England I have the Maestro and K3/0-Mini sitting on my 30” x 60’ office desk by the 27” Apple Display with West Mountain Radio external speakers that can be used with either system.  The Remote Rig equipment, cabling, network ethernet switch, 120 VAC surge protected hub that powers the Remote Rig equipment, network switch, Maestro, Speakers, K3/0-Mini are either sitting on the floor or held in place with cable ties attached around the desk legs, out-of-the-way and out-of-sight.  Of course, the ham shack itself in Georgia is a different matter given the amount of equipment installed, but the operating position has the real estate to handle it. (approximately 12 ft. x 30” of desk space).
>
> -Equipment Complexity:  The K3/0-Mini and Remote Rig RRC-1258 are relatively simple devices.  I’ve not had any issues with these devices and while there have been firmware upgrades they are few and not necessarily required.  The Maestro is a much more complex piece of equipment which is essentially a device with built-in tablet that takes significant time to boot up and has firmware that controls the various knobs and indications and of course communicates with the Flex server to establish a connection to my Flex-6700.  Any update to SmartSDR (the most recent was last December 2018 to v2.49 while Flex has announced that v3.0 will be available in March 2019) requires an update to the Flex-6700 and Maestro.  This can be done remotely, but it also reflects the greater complexity of the system.
>
> My original Maestro (purchased new in 2017) has been recalled once at no charge and sent back once for non-warranty repairs.
>
> -Isolation.  Running remote reduces the potential for surge issues where I’m actually operating as there are no external antennas.
>
> At the ham shack in Southeast Georgia, I have the K3 equipment physically separate from the Flex Equipment going through separate ethernet switches and isolated with Fiber Optic Converters for CAT5 connections to help reduce the probability of surge problems or a  ethernet switch failure in the shack taking down both systems. RF connection of both systems to the antennas and dummy load is thorough an Antenna Genius which provides high isolation between antenna ports. The DSL modem and separate router are in the house while the ham shack itself is located in an air conditioned room located in the detached garage.  I run a fiber optic cable between the house and ham shack to further isolate the network equipment in the house from the shack.
>
> Bottom line is that I like both systems and each system offers capabilities that the other does not have.  Given that I’m over 1,100 miles from the ham shack most of the time, I’ve benefited from redundancy because things can go wrong and cannot be fixed until my next trip to southeast Georgia. Over the past year I’ve had issues with one or the other system but usually the other system is still up and running.
>
>  From the user’s perspective, I do suggest that one needs to to carefully consider how exactly they will operate their system and what level of investment ($$$, sweat equity, real estate) they’re wiling or able to put into a remote system.  Flex’s approach is certainly successful, but it is a complex and more expensive system that has taken many more years to develop than what Flex initially announced.  Electraft’s approach is ’simpler’ in terms of making it possible to operate remotely, but it does appear relatively ‘kludgy’ given that it could certainly be streamlined if they thought it is worth the time and effort.    If one is focused on ’pickup and go’ remote operation, the Flex Maestro (or SmartSDR on a laptop or SmartSDR for iOS on an Apple iPad) is certainly easier to manage than taking the K3/0-Mini with remote Rig setup.  i have transported both the Maestro and K3/0-Mini w/Remote Rig in their respective Pelican Cases between locations before so I appreciate the steps needed to take down and setup this equipment.  I later purchased used K3/O-Mini and Maestro devices to eliminate the need to transport (and take up space in my vehicle) between Texas (Fall/Winter) and New England (Spring/Summer) when cargo space is at a premium when transporting the XYL, family dog and the clothing and other items needed at the other QTH.
>
>
> FWIW,
>
> Barry Baines, WD4ASW
> (Keller, TX)
>
>
>
>> 73,
>> Fred
>> AE4ED
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 8:12 AM Jorge Diez - CX6VM <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello
>>>
>>> any idea if will be a new control radio for remote? Like K3/0 Mini with
>>> remoterig integrated inside it?
>>>
>>> Maybe for Dayton will have it?
>>>
>>> --
>>> 73,
>>> Jorge
>>> CX6VM/CW5W
>>> ______________________________________________________________
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[Elecraft mailing list]

Mitch:

> On Feb 28, 2019, at 11:27 AM, Mitch Wolfson DJ0QN / K7DX <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Barry,
>
> I have been using serial to ethernet servers for over 10 years to control rotors, amplifiers and other serial devices. You set these up once and can forget about them. You install a virtual serial port on the control PC for which you can use any kind of client software to control that device, but there is of course no web interface. No local PC on the radio side needs to be running. I use these devices instead of the (expensive) dedicated RC-1216H devices that only provide a web interface. My favorite ones are the Lantronix UDS2100, which I have bought over Ebay.

I’m currently using the Lantronics EDS4100 serial-to-ethernet which works well.  As you note, one creates a virtual com port on the controlling PC running Windows.  This device can manage up to four serial ports at the remote site.  Thus, I have the virtual com configuration installed on Win-7Pro machine in the shack as well as on a Win10Pro virtual machine running on my MacBook Pro running Parallels that’s with me.  

However, that’s the problem…  I want to use web-based devices because I have no desire to run a Windows in the shack or where I am.  A web-based device such as the RC-1216H is much more convenient, doesn’t require a PC to access and avoids having to specially configure the controlling computer such as is required to manage a Lantronics device that is only compatible with Windows OS.  I can’t tell you how many times I’ve used my iPhone, iPad, MacBook Pro, etc. to remotely manage my station to turn on/off devices (through West Mountain Radio’s 4005i) or even reboot computers (through Digital Loggers Pro Switch).  

>
> Note that the WebSwitch 1216H (not the RC-1216H) allows rotor control and also has a serial port server to provide a virtual serial port. This port can however only be used for the rotor, plus the web interface and virtual serial port can not be used at the same time.


To further clarify:

The RC-1216H can be configured to manage the KPA-500,  the SteppIR,  ACOM-200A, Expert 1K-FA, and specific rotators.  According to the RC-1216H manual, “At the moment it support Prositel rotators with the D-type control box, AlfaSpid rotators,  rotators controlled by Green Heron control box and other rotators with serial interfaces with the DCU-1 protocol.”  In my case, the RC-1216H is compatible with the Green Heron RT-21 control box. Along with managing the rotor direction, jt can also power on/off the Green Heron controller through a relay box (such as  from West Mountain Radio) that allows 12 VDC to power on/off a 120 VAC device.  Keep the Green Heron power switch set to ‘on’ and I have  remote on/off capability for the Green Heron itself through the RC-1216H.    Thus, I have two RC-1216H devices:  one to manage the KPA500 and the other to manage my Green Heron/Orion rotor system.

The Webswitch 1216H is certainly an alternative for rotor control and people do get confused with the two model designations.  When I ordered the RC-1216H from HRO, they sent me the webswitch 1216H in error.  I like the RC-1216H because it is a simple RS232 cable connection between the RC-1216H and Green Heron;  configure the RC-1216H to manage a rotor, and it basically works out-of-the-box.    There are eight predefined aziumth bearings that can be labeled as well as the ability to direct the antenna to a specific bearing.  

In summary, the trend is for more seamless web-based management of remote devices both in the consumer market and amateur radio as it eliminates the need for specific hardware/software to remotely manage devices.  If I could replace using KAT-500 Utility software with a web-based device such as the RC-1216H  to manage the tuner, I could stick with running Apple devices (and avoid running Windows under Parallels on a MacBook Pro) and be able to fully control my K3 station from anywhere (in conjunction with the K3/0-Mini).

73,

Barry, WD4ASW
(Keller, TX)

>
> 73,
> Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
>
> --
> Mitch Wolfson  K7DX / DJ0QN
> 10285 Boca Cir, Naples, FL 34109
> Skype: mitchwo
> USA: Home:[phone] - Mobile:[phone]
> Germany: Home:[phone] - Mobile/WhatsApp:[phone]
>

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[Mitch Wolfson DJ0QN / K7DX-2]

Barry,

Understand your standpoint now, but that is the opposite of what you
wrote below.  You said that you wanted to be able to run the KAT-500
utility remotely, which prompted me to let you know about the serial
servers that would be the solution. The Apple part of course makes that
somewhat more complicated.

Hopefully someone on the list will now know about these devices which
are wonderful to use for remoting.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX

--
Mitch Wolfson  K7DX / DJ0QN
10285 Boca Cir, Naples, FL 34109
Skype: mitchwo
USA: Home:[phone] - Mobile:[phone]
Germany: Home:[phone] - Mobile/WhatsApp:[phone]

On 28.02.2019 14:52, Barry Baines wrote:

> Mitch:
>
>> On Feb 28, 2019, at 11:27 AM, Mitch Wolfson DJ0QN / K7DX <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Barry,
>>
>> I have been using serial to ethernet servers for over 10 years to control rotors, amplifiers and other serial devices. You set these up once and can forget about them. You install a virtual serial port on the control PC for which you can use any kind of client software to control that device, but there is of course no web interface. No local PC on the radio side needs to be running. I use these devices instead of the (expensive) dedicated RC-1216H devices that only provide a web interface. My favorite ones are the Lantronix UDS2100, which I have bought over Ebay.
> I’m currently using the Lantronics EDS4100 serial-to-ethernet which works well.  As you note, one creates a virtual com port on the controlling PC running Windows.  This device can manage up to four serial ports at the remote site.  Thus, I have the virtual com configuration installed on Win-7Pro machine in the shack as well as on a Win10Pro virtual machine running on my MacBook Pro running Parallels that’s with me.
>
> However, that’s the problem…  I want to use web-based devices because I have no desire to run a Windows in the shack or where I am.  A web-based device such as the RC-1216H is much more convenient, doesn’t require a PC to access and avoids having to specially configure the controlling computer such as is required to manage a Lantronics device that is only compatible with Windows OS.  I can’t tell you how many times I’ve used my iPhone, iPad, MacBook Pro, etc. to remotely manage my station to turn on/off devices (through West Mountain Radio’s 4005i) or even reboot computers (through Digital Loggers Pro Switch).
>
>> Note that the WebSwitch 1216H (not the RC-1216H) allows rotor control and also has a serial port server to provide a virtual serial port. This port can however only be used for the rotor, plus the web interface and virtual serial port can not be used at the same time.
>
> To further clarify:
>
> The RC-1216H can be configured to manage the KPA-500,  the SteppIR,  ACOM-200A, Expert 1K-FA, and specific rotators.  According to the RC-1216H manual, “At the moment it support Prositel rotators with the D-type control box, AlfaSpid rotators,  rotators controlled by Green Heron control box and other rotators with serial interfaces with the DCU-1 protocol.”  In my case, the RC-1216H is compatible with the Green Heron RT-21 control box. Along with managing the rotor direction, jt can also power on/off the Green Heron controller through a relay box (such as  from West Mountain Radio) that allows 12 VDC to power on/off a 120 VAC device.  Keep the Green Heron power switch set to ‘on’ and I have  remote on/off capability for the Green Heron itself through the RC-1216H.    Thus, I have two RC-1216H devices:  one to manage the KPA500 and the other to manage my Green Heron/Orion rotor system.
>
> The Webswitch 1216H is certainly an alternative for rotor control and people do get confused with the two model designations.  When I ordered the RC-1216H from HRO, they sent me the webswitch 1216H in error.  I like the RC-1216H because it is a simple RS232 cable connection between the RC-1216H and Green Heron;  configure the RC-1216H to manage a rotor, and it basically works out-of-the-box.    There are eight predefined aziumth bearings that can be labeled as well as the ability to direct the antenna to a specific bearing.
>
> In summary, the trend is for more seamless web-based management of remote devices both in the consumer market and amateur radio as it eliminates the need for specific hardware/software to remotely manage devices.  If I could replace using KAT-500 Utility software with a web-based device such as the RC-1216H  to manage the tuner, I could stick with running Apple devices (and avoid running Windows under Parallels on a MacBook Pro) and be able to fully control my K3 station from anywhere (in conjunction with the K3/0-Mini).
>
> 73,
>
> Barry, WD4ASW
> (Keller, TX)
>
>
>
>> 73,
>> Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
>>
>> --
>> Mitch Wolfson  K7DX / DJ0QN
>> 10285 Boca Cir, Naples, FL 34109
>> Skype: mitchwo
>> USA: Home:[phone] - Mobile:[phone]
>> Germany: Home:[phone] - Mobile/WhatsApp:[phone]
>>
>

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[Elecraft mailing list]

Mitch:

> On Feb 28, 2019, at 5:50 PM, Mitch Wolfson DJ0QN / K7DX <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Barry,
>
> Understand your standpoint now, but that is the opposite of what you wrote below.  You said that you wanted to be able to run the KAT-500 utility remotely, which prompted me to let you know about the serial servers that would be the solution. The Apple part of course makes that somewhat more complicated.

I don’t believe I changed anything in my posting.  I originally stated that I was already controlling the KAT500 remotely through a serial-to-ethernet interface.  (My original post stated, "What I miss is the direct controllability of the KAT500 which requires the KAT500 utility to be controlled remotely.  I’ve done this using a Serial-to-Ethernet converter, but I don’t like it because it requires a PC to run it”)   By “direct controllability” I mean not using a PC running specific software (KAT500 utility)  requiring virtual com ports and instead using a web-based interface such as the RC-1216H for ease of use and compatibility with a multitude of devices to control it.  Until such an interface is available, however, I’m forced to stick with the current solution of using a PC, virtual serial port(s), serial-to-ethernet converter, and KAT500 utility software.  

Much about remote operating boils down to personal preference.  There is no ‘right’ answer; rather how one uses their station,  lessons learned over time, and new technical offerings will cause evolution of how ‘best’ it can be done on a case-by-case basis. How I manage my station today is totally different that what I did back in 2014.  

>
> Hopefully someone on the list will now know about these devices which are wonderful to use for remoting.


I agree these devices are very helpful;  without the Lantronics EDS4100 my setup would be much more “kludgy” to manage the KAT500 remotely.


73,

Barry, WD4ASW

>
> 73,
> Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
>
> --
> Mitch Wolfson  K7DX / DJ0QN
> 10285 Boca Cir, Naples, FL 34109
> Skype: mitchwo
> USA: Home:[phone] - Mobile:[phone]
> Germany: Home:[phone] - Mobile/WhatsApp:[phone]
>
> On 28.02.2019 14:52, Barry Baines wrote:
>> Mitch:
>>
>>> On Feb 28, 2019, at 11:27 AM, Mitch Wolfson DJ0QN / K7DX <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Barry,
>>>
>>> I have been using serial to ethernet servers for over 10 years to control rotors, amplifiers and other serial devices. You set these up once and can forget about them. You install a virtual serial port on the control PC for which you can use any kind of client software to control that device, but there is of course no web interface. No local PC on the radio side needs to be running. I use these devices instead of the (expensive) dedicated RC-1216H devices that only provide a web interface. My favorite ones are the Lantronix UDS2100, which I have bought over Ebay.
>> I’m currently using the Lantronics EDS4100 serial-to-ethernet which works well.  As you note, one creates a virtual com port on the controlling PC running Windows.  This device can manage up to four serial ports at the remote site.  Thus, I have the virtual com configuration installed on Win-7Pro machine in the shack as well as on a Win10Pro virtual machine running on my MacBook Pro running Parallels that’s with me.
>>
>> However, that’s the problem…  I want to use web-based devices because I have no desire to run a Windows in the shack or where I am.  A web-based device such as the RC-1216H is much more convenient, doesn’t require a PC to access and avoids having to specially configure the controlling computer such as is required to manage a Lantronics device that is only compatible with Windows OS.  I can’t tell you how many times I’ve used my iPhone, iPad, MacBook Pro, etc. to remotely manage my station to turn on/off devices (through West Mountain Radio’s 4005i) or even reboot computers (through Digital Loggers Pro Switch).
>>
>>> Note that the WebSwitch 1216H (not the RC-1216H) allows rotor control and also has a serial port server to provide a virtual serial port. This port can however only be used for the rotor, plus the web interface and virtual serial port can not be used at the same time.
>>
>> To further clarify:
>>
>> The RC-1216H can be configured to manage the KPA-500,  the SteppIR,  ACOM-200A, Expert 1K-FA, and specific rotators.  According to the RC-1216H manual, “At the moment it support Prositel rotators with the D-type control box, AlfaSpid rotators,  rotators controlled by Green Heron control box and other rotators with serial interfaces with the DCU-1 protocol.”  In my case, the RC-1216H is compatible with the Green Heron RT-21 control box. Along with managing the rotor direction, jt can also power on/off the Green Heron controller through a relay box (such as  from West Mountain Radio) that allows 12 VDC to power on/off a 120 VAC device.  Keep the Green Heron power switch set to ‘on’ and I have  remote on/off capability for the Green Heron itself through the RC-1216H.    Thus, I have two RC-1216H devices:  one to manage the KPA500 and the other to manage my Green Heron/Orion rotor system.
>>
>> The Webswitch 1216H is certainly an alternative for rotor control and people do get confused with the two model designations.  When I ordered the RC-1216H from HRO, they sent me the webswitch 1216H in error.  I like the RC-1216H because it is a simple RS232 cable connection between the RC-1216H and Green Heron;  configure the RC-1216H to manage a rotor, and it basically works out-of-the-box.    There are eight predefined aziumth bearings that can be labeled as well as the ability to direct the antenna to a specific bearing.
>>
>> In summary, the trend is for more seamless web-based management of remote devices both in the consumer market and amateur radio as it eliminates the need for specific hardware/software to remotely manage devices.  If I could replace using KAT-500 Utility software with a web-based device such as the RC-1216H  to manage the tuner, I could stick with running Apple devices (and avoid running Windows under Parallels on a MacBook Pro) and be able to fully control my K3 station from anywhere (in conjunction with the K3/0-Mini).
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Barry, WD4ASW
>> (Keller, TX)
>>
>>
>>
>>> 73,
>>> Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mitch Wolfson  K7DX / DJ0QN
>>> 10285 Boca Cir, Naples, FL 34109
>>> Skype: mitchwo
>>> USA: Home:[phone] - Mobile:[phone]
>>> Germany: Home:[phone] - Mobile/WhatsApp:[phone]
>>>
>>
>

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[Gerry Hull]

I have four years of experience using the RemoteRig boxes with both the
K3/0 Full-size box and the K3/0 Mini.

One must remember that the RRC 1258 boxes are not purpose-built for
Elecraft, though the solution is elegant, and works flawlessly week after
week once it has
been configured properly.

Comparing the Flex solution of the Elecraft + RemoteRig solution is
comparing Apples to Oranges.  I would hold Flex to an even higher
standard:  It's a one-company solution, designed way after the Elecraft +
RemoteRig stuff was on the market.

Hopefully, the K4, or what is ever next from Elecraft, will have
a detachable front panel --- and the connection between the front panel and
radio chassis will be Ethernet! (One can dream).

So Flex and Elecraft, I believe, pretty much own the Remote market, which
is growing rapidly.   I'm sure Eric and team are not sitting on their hands
regarding remote.

I just passed 25,000 QSOs from VY1AAA, remoting from 4500km away in New
Hampshire.   The remote end is simple DSL.   The technology rocks.
Packaging is the result of multiple vendors.

73,

Gerry Hull, W1VE / VE1RM
Trustee, VY1AAA
Hancock, NH

Gerry Hull, W1VE  Hancock, NH USA
Member: ARRL, YCCC, YCCCN, CW Ops
[hidden email] ph: 1-617-CW-SPARK (find me)





On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 11:56 AM Barry Baines via Elecraft <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Fred:
>
>
> > On Feb 28, 2019, at 8:20 AM, Fred Massey <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > A K3/0 that could directly connect over the internet with a K3s (K3s+ or
> > K4) is really needed.  The remoterig is relatively difficult and old
> tech.
> > The client server architecture like flex is using is what is needed.
>
>
> I use the existing K3/0-Mini and Remote Rig with my K3 and the Flex-6700
> through Maestro remotely.  Both approaches have their advantages and
> disadvantages and in essence we’re comparing apples to oranges.
>
> The K3 approach through Remote Rig is admittedly ‘kludgy’ given external
> boxes, cabling, and settings.  However, once up and running it is very good
> and reliable. Most importantly, the system requires little bandwidth for
> radio control and audio. I can use the K3 remote system controlling a K3
> station in rural southeast Georgia which has a DSL connection and max
> upload of 1.2 MBps.  In most cases, it is 768 Mbps.  In addition, it is a
> ’self-contained’ system where no one else has connectivity and the
> connection is directly between the remote and the K3.  I am not dependent
> upon Elecraft to maintain a system for managing my connections.  However,
> this approach also requires separate means to manage the KPA500 and KAT500.
>
> The Remote Rig RC-1216H provides a web interface for the KPA500 and I use
> a second RC-1216H to control the rotor (Green Heron RT-21 managing an Orion
> Rotor).  Of course, there isn’t a panadapter remote option which would take
> uplink bandwidth. What I miss is the direct controllability of the KAT500
> which requires the KAT500 utility to be controlled remotely.  I’ve done
> this using a Serial-to-Ethernet converter, but I don’t llke it because it
> requires a PC to run it.  I hope at some point that Remote Rig would
> upgrade the firmware to manage the KAT500 so that I can use any web-capable
> device (iPad, iPhone, Mac, PC, etc.).
>
> Overall, the system works very well and I’ve been using it since September
> 2014 without problems.  I now keep a K3/0-Mini system at two different
> locations (Texas and New England) both of which cannot support a ham
> station on site.
>
> The Flex System overcomes some of the weaknesses of the K3 approach and of
> course it has a remote panadapter capabiity.  But it has taken Flex over
> five years to provide the remote capability at significantly higher cost
> and requires greater upload bandwidth.  SmartSDR 2.0 was introduced in 2017
> which means for four years I could only operate the Flex-6700 when at the
> shack.  Flex’s approach is dependent upon a server-based system to
> establish a secure link, a license fee if you’re upgrading from Version 1
> to Version 2 or Version 2 to (just announced) Version 3 of SmartSDR.  Flex
> Radio has to maintain a server system to control access remotely.  The PGXL
> amplifier can be controlled directly through Maestro or a PC running
> SmartSDR v2.xx operating from a remote site.  However, the “Tuner Genius”
> that is promised to go with the PGXL has not been released, so I’m limited
> to using my EFHW antenna to the KAT500 and the K3 setup since I do need to
> use a tuner with it.  I will say that the bandwidth requirements of the
> Flex under the current V2.49 SmartSDR is significantly less than in the
> past so it works more reliably in “Low Bandwidth" mode.  I also keep a
> Maestro in both Texas and New England.
>
> Having two different remote systems with different feature sets does
> provide some advantages:
>
> -Redundancy. In the event one system has a remote issue, I have the other
> to use as a backup.
>
> -Flexibility.  I like to ‘listen’ so much of my time is spent listening or
> participating on nets.  The K3 setup works well since I’m not particularly
> “hunting” for signals where a panadapter would be useful.  Simply turn on
> the K3 and I’m on the last frequency I was tuned or I can enter the
> frequency of interest.  I have the tuner and amplifier as needed, and 500W
> is usually more than sufficient for my needs.    The Flex is more helpful
> if I’m searching the bands with a panadapter/waterfall, but the PGXL is
> only helpful on 10-15-20 where I have a yagi and don’t need to a tuner
> capable of handling the PGXL.  Due to bandwidth issues, the Flex system
> does sometime ‘hiccup’ due to missed packets though this happens a lot less
> than previously.
>
> -Space.  I spend 90% of my operating time running remote.  At my locations
> in Texas and New England I have the Maestro and K3/0-Mini sitting on my 30”
> x 60’ office desk by the 27” Apple Display with West Mountain Radio
> external speakers that can be used with either system.  The Remote Rig
> equipment, cabling, network ethernet switch, 120 VAC surge protected hub
> that powers the Remote Rig equipment, network switch, Maestro, Speakers,
> K3/0-Mini are either sitting on the floor or held in place with cable ties
> attached around the desk legs, out-of-the-way and out-of-sight.  Of course,
> the ham shack itself in Georgia is a different matter given the amount of
> equipment installed, but the operating position has the real estate to
> handle it. (approximately 12 ft. x 30” of desk space).
>
> -Equipment Complexity:  The K3/0-Mini and Remote Rig RRC-1258 are
> relatively simple devices.  I’ve not had any issues with these devices and
> while there have been firmware upgrades they are few and not necessarily
> required.  The Maestro is a much more complex piece of equipment which is
> essentially a device with built-in tablet that takes significant time to
> boot up and has firmware that controls the various knobs and indications
> and of course communicates with the Flex server to establish a connection
> to my Flex-6700.  Any update to SmartSDR (the most recent was last December
> 2018 to v2.49 while Flex has announced that v3.0 will be available in March
> 2019) requires an update to the Flex-6700 and Maestro.  This can be done
> remotely, but it also reflects the greater complexity of the system.
>
> My original Maestro (purchased new in 2017) has been recalled once at no
> charge and sent back once for non-warranty repairs.
>
> -Isolation.  Running remote reduces the potential for surge issues where
> I’m actually operating as there are no external antennas.
>
> At the ham shack in Southeast Georgia, I have the K3 equipment physically
> separate from the Flex Equipment going through separate ethernet switches
> and isolated with Fiber Optic Converters for CAT5 connections to help
> reduce the probability of surge problems or a  ethernet switch failure in
> the shack taking down both systems. RF connection of both systems to the
> antennas and dummy load is thorough an Antenna Genius which provides high
> isolation between antenna ports. The DSL modem and separate router are in
> the house while the ham shack itself is located in an air conditioned room
> located in the detached garage.  I run a fiber optic cable between the
> house and ham shack to further isolate the network equipment in the house
> from the shack.
>
> Bottom line is that I like both systems and each system offers
> capabilities that the other does not have.  Given that I’m over 1,100 miles
> from the ham shack most of the time, I’ve benefited from redundancy because
> things can go wrong and cannot be fixed until my next trip to southeast
> Georgia. Over the past year I’ve had issues with one or the other system
> but usually the other system is still up and running.
>
> From the user’s perspective, I do suggest that one needs to to carefully
> consider how exactly they will operate their system and what level of
> investment ($$$, sweat equity, real estate) they’re wiling or able to put
> into a remote system.  Flex’s approach is certainly successful, but it is a
> complex and more expensive system that has taken many more years to develop
> than what Flex initially announced.  Electraft’s approach is ’simpler’ in
> terms of making it possible to operate remotely, but it does appear
> relatively ‘kludgy’ given that it could certainly be streamlined if they
> thought it is worth the time and effort.    If one is focused on ’pickup
> and go’ remote operation, the Flex Maestro (or SmartSDR on a laptop or
> SmartSDR for iOS on an Apple iPad) is certainly easier to manage than
> taking the K3/0-Mini with remote Rig setup.  i have transported both the
> Maestro and K3/0-Mini w/Remote Rig in their respective Pelican Cases
> between locations before so I appreciate the steps needed to take down and
> setup this equipment.  I later purchased used K3/O-Mini and Maestro devices
> to eliminate the need to transport (and take up space in my vehicle)
> between Texas (Fall/Winter) and New England (Spring/Summer) when cargo
> space is at a premium when transporting the XYL, family dog and the
> clothing and other items needed at the other QTH.
>
>
> FWIW,
>
> Barry Baines, WD4ASW
> (Keller, TX)
>
>
>
> > 73,
> > Fred
> > AE4ED
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 8:12 AM Jorge Diez - CX6VM <
> [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hello
> >>
> >> any idea if will be a new control radio for remote? Like K3/0 Mini with
> >> remoterig integrated inside it?
> >>
> >> Maybe for Dayton will have it?
> >>
> >> --
> >> 73,
> >> Jorge
> >> CX6VM/CW5W
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[AE4ED]

Well said Gerry,
Fred AE

On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 10:45 AM Gerry Hull <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have four years of experience using the RemoteRig boxes with both the
> K3/0 Full-size box and the K3/0 Mini.
>
> One must remember that the RRC 1258 boxes are not purpose-built for
> Elecraft, though the solution is elegant, and works flawlessly week after
> week once it has
> been configured properly.
>
> Comparing the Flex solution of the Elecraft + RemoteRig solution is
> comparing Apples to Oranges.  I would hold Flex to an even higher
> standard:  It's a one-company solution, designed way after the Elecraft +
> RemoteRig stuff was on the market.
>
> Hopefully, the K4, or what is ever next from Elecraft, will have
> a detachable front panel --- and the connection between the front panel and
> radio chassis will be Ethernet! (One can dream).
>
> So Flex and Elecraft, I believe, pretty much own the Remote market, which
> is growing rapidly.   I'm sure Eric and team are not sitting on their hands
> regarding remote.
>
> I just passed 25,000 QSOs from VY1AAA, remoting from 4500km away in New
> Hampshire.   The remote end is simple DSL.   The technology rocks.
> Packaging is the result of multiple vendors.
>
> 73,
>
> Gerry Hull, W1VE / VE1RM
> Trustee, VY1AAA
> Hancock, NH
>
> Gerry Hull, W1VE  Hancock, NH USA
> Member: ARRL, YCCC, YCCCN, CW Ops
> [hidden email] ph: 1-617-CW-SPARK (find me)
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 11:56 AM Barry Baines via Elecraft <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Fred:
>>
>>
>> > On Feb 28, 2019, at 8:20 AM, Fred Massey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > A K3/0 that could directly connect over the internet with a K3s (K3s+ or
>> > K4) is really needed.  The remoterig is relatively difficult and old
>> tech.
>> > The client server architecture like flex is using is what is needed.
>>
>>
>> I use the existing K3/0-Mini and Remote Rig with my K3 and the Flex-6700
>> through Maestro remotely.  Both approaches have their advantages and
>> disadvantages and in essence we’re comparing apples to oranges.
>>
>> The K3 approach through Remote Rig is admittedly ‘kludgy’ given external
>> boxes, cabling, and settings.  However, once up and running it is very good
>> and reliable. Most importantly, the system requires little bandwidth for
>> radio control and audio. I can use the K3 remote system controlling a K3
>> station in rural southeast Georgia which has a DSL connection and max
>> upload of 1.2 MBps.  In most cases, it is 768 Mbps.  In addition, it is a
>> ’self-contained’ system where no one else has connectivity and the
>> connection is directly between the remote and the K3.  I am not dependent
>> upon Elecraft to maintain a system for managing my connections.  However,
>> this approach also requires separate means to manage the KPA500 and KAT500.
>>
>> The Remote Rig RC-1216H provides a web interface for the KPA500 and I use
>> a second RC-1216H to control the rotor (Green Heron RT-21 managing an Orion
>> Rotor).  Of course, there isn’t a panadapter remote option which would take
>> uplink bandwidth. What I miss is the direct controllability of the KAT500
>> which requires the KAT500 utility to be controlled remotely.  I’ve done
>> this using a Serial-to-Ethernet converter, but I don’t llke it because it
>> requires a PC to run it.  I hope at some point that Remote Rig would
>> upgrade the firmware to manage the KAT500 so that I can use any web-capable
>> device (iPad, iPhone, Mac, PC, etc.).
>>
>> Overall, the system works very well and I’ve been using it since
>> September 2014 without problems.  I now keep a K3/0-Mini system at two
>> different locations (Texas and New England) both of which cannot support a
>> ham station on site.
>>
>> The Flex System overcomes some of the weaknesses of the K3 approach and
>> of course it has a remote panadapter capabiity.  But it has taken Flex over
>> five years to provide the remote capability at significantly higher cost
>> and requires greater upload bandwidth.  SmartSDR 2.0 was introduced in 2017
>> which means for four years I could only operate the Flex-6700 when at the
>> shack.  Flex’s approach is dependent upon a server-based system to
>> establish a secure link, a license fee if you’re upgrading from Version 1
>> to Version 2 or Version 2 to (just announced) Version 3 of SmartSDR.  Flex
>> Radio has to maintain a server system to control access remotely.  The PGXL
>> amplifier can be controlled directly through Maestro or a PC running
>> SmartSDR v2.xx operating from a remote site.  However, the “Tuner Genius”
>> that is promised to go with the PGXL has not been released, so I’m limited
>> to using my EFHW antenna to the KAT500 and the K3 setup since I do need to
>> use a tuner with it.  I will say that the bandwidth requirements of the
>> Flex under the current V2.49 SmartSDR is significantly less than in the
>> past so it works more reliably in “Low Bandwidth" mode.  I also keep a
>> Maestro in both Texas and New England.
>>
>> Having two different remote systems with different feature sets does
>> provide some advantages:
>>
>> -Redundancy. In the event one system has a remote issue, I have the other
>> to use as a backup.
>>
>> -Flexibility.  I like to ‘listen’ so much of my time is spent listening
>> or participating on nets.  The K3 setup works well since I’m not
>> particularly “hunting” for signals where a panadapter would be useful.
>> Simply turn on the K3 and I’m on the last frequency I was tuned or I can
>> enter the frequency of interest.  I have the tuner and amplifier as needed,
>> and 500W is usually more than sufficient for my needs.    The Flex is more
>> helpful if I’m searching the bands with a panadapter/waterfall, but the
>> PGXL is only helpful on 10-15-20 where I have a yagi and don’t need to a
>> tuner capable of handling the PGXL.  Due to bandwidth issues, the Flex
>> system does sometime ‘hiccup’ due to missed packets though this happens a
>> lot less than previously.
>>
>> -Space.  I spend 90% of my operating time running remote.  At my
>> locations in Texas and New England I have the Maestro and K3/0-Mini sitting
>> on my 30” x 60’ office desk by the 27” Apple Display with West Mountain
>> Radio external speakers that can be used with either system.  The Remote
>> Rig equipment, cabling, network ethernet switch, 120 VAC surge protected
>> hub that powers the Remote Rig equipment, network switch, Maestro,
>> Speakers, K3/0-Mini are either sitting on the floor or held in place with
>> cable ties attached around the desk legs, out-of-the-way and out-of-sight.
>> Of course, the ham shack itself in Georgia is a different matter given the
>> amount of equipment installed, but the operating position has the real
>> estate to handle it. (approximately 12 ft. x 30” of desk space).
>>
>> -Equipment Complexity:  The K3/0-Mini and Remote Rig RRC-1258 are
>> relatively simple devices.  I’ve not had any issues with these devices and
>> while there have been firmware upgrades they are few and not necessarily
>> required.  The Maestro is a much more complex piece of equipment which is
>> essentially a device with built-in tablet that takes significant time to
>> boot up and has firmware that controls the various knobs and indications
>> and of course communicates with the Flex server to establish a connection
>> to my Flex-6700.  Any update to SmartSDR (the most recent was last December
>> 2018 to v2.49 while Flex has announced that v3.0 will be available in March
>> 2019) requires an update to the Flex-6700 and Maestro.  This can be done
>> remotely, but it also reflects the greater complexity of the system.
>>
>> My original Maestro (purchased new in 2017) has been recalled once at no
>> charge and sent back once for non-warranty repairs.
>>
>> -Isolation.  Running remote reduces the potential for surge issues where
>> I’m actually operating as there are no external antennas.
>>
>> At the ham shack in Southeast Georgia, I have the K3 equipment physically
>> separate from the Flex Equipment going through separate ethernet switches
>> and isolated with Fiber Optic Converters for CAT5 connections to help
>> reduce the probability of surge problems or a  ethernet switch failure in
>> the shack taking down both systems. RF connection of both systems to the
>> antennas and dummy load is thorough an Antenna Genius which provides high
>> isolation between antenna ports. The DSL modem and separate router are in
>> the house while the ham shack itself is located in an air conditioned room
>> located in the detached garage.  I run a fiber optic cable between the
>> house and ham shack to further isolate the network equipment in the house
>> from the shack.
>>
>> Bottom line is that I like both systems and each system offers
>> capabilities that the other does not have.  Given that I’m over 1,100 miles
>> from the ham shack most of the time, I’ve benefited from redundancy because
>> things can go wrong and cannot be fixed until my next trip to southeast
>> Georgia. Over the past year I’ve had issues with one or the other system
>> but usually the other system is still up and running.
>>
>> From the user’s perspective, I do suggest that one needs to to carefully
>> consider how exactly they will operate their system and what level of
>> investment ($$$, sweat equity, real estate) they’re wiling or able to put
>> into a remote system.  Flex’s approach is certainly successful, but it is a
>> complex and more expensive system that has taken many more years to develop
>> than what Flex initially announced.  Electraft’s approach is ’simpler’ in
>> terms of making it possible to operate remotely, but it does appear
>> relatively ‘kludgy’ given that it could certainly be streamlined if they
>> thought it is worth the time and effort.    If one is focused on ’pickup
>> and go’ remote operation, the Flex Maestro (or SmartSDR on a laptop or
>> SmartSDR for iOS on an Apple iPad) is certainly easier to manage than
>> taking the K3/0-Mini with remote Rig setup.  i have transported both the
>> Maestro and K3/0-Mini w/Remote Rig in their respective Pelican Cases
>> between locations before so I appreciate the steps needed to take down and
>> setup this equipment.  I later purchased used K3/O-Mini and Maestro devices
>> to eliminate the need to transport (and take up space in my vehicle)
>> between Texas (Fall/Winter) and New England (Spring/Summer) when cargo
>> space is at a premium when transporting the XYL, family dog and the
>> clothing and other items needed at the other QTH.
>>
>>
>> FWIW,
>>
>> Barry Baines, WD4ASW
>> (Keller, TX)
>>
>>
>>
>> > 73,
>> > Fred
>> > AE4ED
>> >
>> > On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 8:12 AM Jorge Diez - CX6VM <
>> [hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hello
>> >>
>> >> any idea if will be a new control radio for remote? Like K3/0 Mini with
>> >> remoterig integrated inside it?
>> >>
>> >> Maybe for Dayton will have it?
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> 73,
>> >> Jorge
>> >> CX6VM/CW5W
>> >> ______________________________________________________________
>> >> Elecraft mailing list
>> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>> >>
>> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> >>
>> > ______________________________________________________________
>> > Elecraft mailing list
>> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>> >
>> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Jorge Diez - CX6VM-2]

Hello Gerry

Elecraft + remoterig works very good.

I think once´s VY1AAA setup was ready, you left it there for all this years.

I am thinking about the case i need to travel every week, 3 days a week,
and i want to take my remote solution with me.

Something easiest to connect and get ready will be grate for this cases

73,
Jorge

El jue., 7 mar. 2019 a las 13:45, Gerry Hull (<[hidden email]>) escribió:

> I have four years of experience using the RemoteRig boxes with both the
> K3/0 Full-size box and the K3/0 Mini.
>
> One must remember that the RRC 1258 boxes are not purpose-built for
> Elecraft, though the solution is elegant, and works flawlessly week after
> week once it has
> been configured properly.
>
> Comparing the Flex solution of the Elecraft + RemoteRig solution is
> comparing Apples to Oranges.  I would hold Flex to an even higher
> standard:  It's a one-company solution, designed way after the Elecraft +
> RemoteRig stuff was on the market.
>
> Hopefully, the K4, or what is ever next from Elecraft, will have
> a detachable front panel --- and the connection between the front panel and
> radio chassis will be Ethernet! (One can dream).
>
> So Flex and Elecraft, I believe, pretty much own the Remote market, which
> is growing rapidly.   I'm sure Eric and team are not sitting on their hands
> regarding remote.
>
> I just passed 25,000 QSOs from VY1AAA, remoting from 4500km away in New
> Hampshire.   The remote end is simple DSL.   The technology rocks.
> Packaging is the result of multiple vendors.
>
> 73,
>
> Gerry Hull, W1VE / VE1RM
> Trustee, VY1AAA
> Hancock, NH
>
> Gerry Hull, W1VE  Hancock, NH USA
> Member: ARRL, YCCC, YCCCN, CW Ops
> [hidden email] ph: 1-617-CW-SPARK (find me)
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 11:56 AM Barry Baines via Elecraft <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Fred:
> >
> >
> > > On Feb 28, 2019, at 8:20 AM, Fred Massey <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > A K3/0 that could directly connect over the internet with a K3s (K3s+
> or
> > > K4) is really needed.  The remoterig is relatively difficult and old
> > tech.
> > > The client server architecture like flex is using is what is needed.
> >
> >
> > I use the existing K3/0-Mini and Remote Rig with my K3 and the Flex-6700
> > through Maestro remotely.  Both approaches have their advantages and
> > disadvantages and in essence we’re comparing apples to oranges.
> >
> > The K3 approach through Remote Rig is admittedly ‘kludgy’ given external
> > boxes, cabling, and settings.  However, once up and running it is very
> good
> > and reliable. Most importantly, the system requires little bandwidth for
> > radio control and audio. I can use the K3 remote system controlling a K3
> > station in rural southeast Georgia which has a DSL connection and max
> > upload of 1.2 MBps.  In most cases, it is 768 Mbps.  In addition, it is a
> > ’self-contained’ system where no one else has connectivity and the
> > connection is directly between the remote and the K3.  I am not dependent
> > upon Elecraft to maintain a system for managing my connections.  However,
> > this approach also requires separate means to manage the KPA500 and
> KAT500.
> >
> > The Remote Rig RC-1216H provides a web interface for the KPA500 and I use
> > a second RC-1216H to control the rotor (Green Heron RT-21 managing an
> Orion
> > Rotor).  Of course, there isn’t a panadapter remote option which would
> take
> > uplink bandwidth. What I miss is the direct controllability of the KAT500
> > which requires the KAT500 utility to be controlled remotely.  I’ve done
> > this using a Serial-to-Ethernet converter, but I don’t llke it because it
> > requires a PC to run it.  I hope at some point that Remote Rig would
> > upgrade the firmware to manage the KAT500 so that I can use any
> web-capable
> > device (iPad, iPhone, Mac, PC, etc.).
> >
> > Overall, the system works very well and I’ve been using it since
> September
> > 2014 without problems.  I now keep a K3/0-Mini system at two different
> > locations (Texas and New England) both of which cannot support a ham
> > station on site.
> >
> > The Flex System overcomes some of the weaknesses of the K3 approach and
> of
> > course it has a remote panadapter capabiity.  But it has taken Flex over
> > five years to provide the remote capability at significantly higher cost
> > and requires greater upload bandwidth.  SmartSDR 2.0 was introduced in
> 2017
> > which means for four years I could only operate the Flex-6700 when at the
> > shack.  Flex’s approach is dependent upon a server-based system to
> > establish a secure link, a license fee if you’re upgrading from Version 1
> > to Version 2 or Version 2 to (just announced) Version 3 of SmartSDR.
> Flex
> > Radio has to maintain a server system to control access remotely.  The
> PGXL
> > amplifier can be controlled directly through Maestro or a PC running
> > SmartSDR v2.xx operating from a remote site.  However, the “Tuner Genius”
> > that is promised to go with the PGXL has not been released, so I’m
> limited
> > to using my EFHW antenna to the KAT500 and the K3 setup since I do need
> to
> > use a tuner with it.  I will say that the bandwidth requirements of the
> > Flex under the current V2.49 SmartSDR is significantly less than in the
> > past so it works more reliably in “Low Bandwidth" mode.  I also keep a
> > Maestro in both Texas and New England.
> >
> > Having two different remote systems with different feature sets does
> > provide some advantages:
> >
> > -Redundancy. In the event one system has a remote issue, I have the other
> > to use as a backup.
> >
> > -Flexibility.  I like to ‘listen’ so much of my time is spent listening
> or
> > participating on nets.  The K3 setup works well since I’m not
> particularly
> > “hunting” for signals where a panadapter would be useful.  Simply turn on
> > the K3 and I’m on the last frequency I was tuned or I can enter the
> > frequency of interest.  I have the tuner and amplifier as needed, and
> 500W
> > is usually more than sufficient for my needs.    The Flex is more helpful
> > if I’m searching the bands with a panadapter/waterfall, but the PGXL is
> > only helpful on 10-15-20 where I have a yagi and don’t need to a tuner
> > capable of handling the PGXL.  Due to bandwidth issues, the Flex system
> > does sometime ‘hiccup’ due to missed packets though this happens a lot
> less
> > than previously.
> >
> > -Space.  I spend 90% of my operating time running remote.  At my
> locations
> > in Texas and New England I have the Maestro and K3/0-Mini sitting on my
> 30”
> > x 60’ office desk by the 27” Apple Display with West Mountain Radio
> > external speakers that can be used with either system.  The Remote Rig
> > equipment, cabling, network ethernet switch, 120 VAC surge protected hub
> > that powers the Remote Rig equipment, network switch, Maestro, Speakers,
> > K3/0-Mini are either sitting on the floor or held in place with cable
> ties
> > attached around the desk legs, out-of-the-way and out-of-sight.  Of
> course,
> > the ham shack itself in Georgia is a different matter given the amount of
> > equipment installed, but the operating position has the real estate to
> > handle it. (approximately 12 ft. x 30” of desk space).
> >
> > -Equipment Complexity:  The K3/0-Mini and Remote Rig RRC-1258 are
> > relatively simple devices.  I’ve not had any issues with these devices
> and
> > while there have been firmware upgrades they are few and not necessarily
> > required.  The Maestro is a much more complex piece of equipment which is
> > essentially a device with built-in tablet that takes significant time to
> > boot up and has firmware that controls the various knobs and indications
> > and of course communicates with the Flex server to establish a connection
> > to my Flex-6700.  Any update to SmartSDR (the most recent was last
> December
> > 2018 to v2.49 while Flex has announced that v3.0 will be available in
> March
> > 2019) requires an update to the Flex-6700 and Maestro.  This can be done
> > remotely, but it also reflects the greater complexity of the system.
> >
> > My original Maestro (purchased new in 2017) has been recalled once at no
> > charge and sent back once for non-warranty repairs.
> >
> > -Isolation.  Running remote reduces the potential for surge issues where
> > I’m actually operating as there are no external antennas.
> >
> > At the ham shack in Southeast Georgia, I have the K3 equipment physically
> > separate from the Flex Equipment going through separate ethernet switches
> > and isolated with Fiber Optic Converters for CAT5 connections to help
> > reduce the probability of surge problems or a  ethernet switch failure in
> > the shack taking down both systems. RF connection of both systems to the
> > antennas and dummy load is thorough an Antenna Genius which provides high
> > isolation between antenna ports. The DSL modem and separate router are in
> > the house while the ham shack itself is located in an air conditioned
> room
> > located in the detached garage.  I run a fiber optic cable between the
> > house and ham shack to further isolate the network equipment in the house
> > from the shack.
> >
> > Bottom line is that I like both systems and each system offers
> > capabilities that the other does not have.  Given that I’m over 1,100
> miles
> > from the ham shack most of the time, I’ve benefited from redundancy
> because
> > things can go wrong and cannot be fixed until my next trip to southeast
> > Georgia. Over the past year I’ve had issues with one or the other system
> > but usually the other system is still up and running.
> >
> > From the user’s perspective, I do suggest that one needs to to carefully
> > consider how exactly they will operate their system and what level of
> > investment ($$$, sweat equity, real estate) they’re wiling or able to put
> > into a remote system.  Flex’s approach is certainly successful, but it
> is a
> > complex and more expensive system that has taken many more years to
> develop
> > than what Flex initially announced.  Electraft’s approach is ’simpler’ in
> > terms of making it possible to operate remotely, but it does appear
> > relatively ‘kludgy’ given that it could certainly be streamlined if they
> > thought it is worth the time and effort.    If one is focused on ’pickup
> > and go’ remote operation, the Flex Maestro (or SmartSDR on a laptop or
> > SmartSDR for iOS on an Apple iPad) is certainly easier to manage than
> > taking the K3/0-Mini with remote Rig setup.  i have transported both the
> > Maestro and K3/0-Mini w/Remote Rig in their respective Pelican Cases
> > between locations before so I appreciate the steps needed to take down
> and
> > setup this equipment.  I later purchased used K3/O-Mini and Maestro
> devices
> > to eliminate the need to transport (and take up space in my vehicle)
> > between Texas (Fall/Winter) and New England (Spring/Summer) when cargo
> > space is at a premium when transporting the XYL, family dog and the
> > clothing and other items needed at the other QTH.
> >
> >
> > FWIW,
> >
> > Barry Baines, WD4ASW
> > (Keller, TX)
> >
> >
> >
> > > 73,
> > > Fred
> > > AE4ED
> > >
> > > On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 8:12 AM Jorge Diez - CX6VM <
> > [hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hello
> > >>
> > >> any idea if will be a new control radio for remote? Like K3/0 Mini
> with
> > >> remoterig integrated inside it?
> > >>
> > >> Maybe for Dayton will have it?
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> 73,
> > >> Jorge
> > >> CX6VM/CW5W
> > >> ______________________________________________________________
> > >> Elecraft mailing list
> > >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> > >>
> > >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > >>
> > > ______________________________________________________________
> > > Elecraft mailing list
> > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> > >
> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

--
73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W
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[Gerry Hull]

Not true, Jorge!

I have used it mobile, at conventions, and many radio club demos.

Don't forget about the Android client for RRC (Nano) (they need a new one,
but old one works).  If you have your station fully automated as far as
band switching,
the NANO client works perfectly on your phone.

I understand what you are asking for -- and it will come!

73,

Gerry W1VE / VE1RM





On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 12:26 PM Jorge Diez - CX6VM <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hello Gerry
>
> Elecraft + remoterig works very good.
>
> I think once´s VY1AAA setup was ready, you left it there for all this
> years.
>
> I am thinking about the case i need to travel every week, 3 days a week,
> and i want to take my remote solution with me.
>
> Something easiest to connect and get ready will be grate for this cases
>
> 73,
> Jorge
>
> El jue., 7 mar. 2019 a las 13:45, Gerry Hull (<[hidden email]>) escribió:
>
>> I have four years of experience using the RemoteRig boxes with both the
>> K3/0 Full-size box and the K3/0 Mini.
>>
>> One must remember that the RRC 1258 boxes are not purpose-built for
>> Elecraft, though the solution is elegant, and works flawlessly week after
>> week once it has
>> been configured properly.
>>
>> Comparing the Flex solution of the Elecraft + RemoteRig solution is
>> comparing Apples to Oranges.  I would hold Flex to an even higher
>> standard:  It's a one-company solution, designed way after the Elecraft +
>> RemoteRig stuff was on the market.
>>
>> Hopefully, the K4, or what is ever next from Elecraft, will have
>> a detachable front panel --- and the connection between the front panel
>> and
>> radio chassis will be Ethernet! (One can dream).
>>
>> So Flex and Elecraft, I believe, pretty much own the Remote market, which
>> is growing rapidly.   I'm sure Eric and team are not sitting on their
>> hands
>> regarding remote.
>>
>> I just passed 25,000 QSOs from VY1AAA, remoting from 4500km away in New
>> Hampshire.   The remote end is simple DSL.   The technology rocks.
>> Packaging is the result of multiple vendors.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Gerry Hull, W1VE / VE1RM
>> Trustee, VY1AAA
>> Hancock, NH
>>
>> Gerry Hull, W1VE  Hancock, NH USA
>> Member: ARRL, YCCC, YCCCN, CW Ops
>> [hidden email] ph: 1-617-CW-SPARK (find me)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 11:56 AM Barry Baines via Elecraft <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > Fred:
>> >
>> >
>> > > On Feb 28, 2019, at 8:20 AM, Fred Massey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > A K3/0 that could directly connect over the internet with a K3s (K3s+
>> or
>> > > K4) is really needed.  The remoterig is relatively difficult and old
>> > tech.
>> > > The client server architecture like flex is using is what is needed.
>> >
>> >
>> > I use the existing K3/0-Mini and Remote Rig with my K3 and the Flex-6700
>> > through Maestro remotely.  Both approaches have their advantages and
>> > disadvantages and in essence we’re comparing apples to oranges.
>> >
>> > The K3 approach through Remote Rig is admittedly ‘kludgy’ given external
>> > boxes, cabling, and settings.  However, once up and running it is very
>> good
>> > and reliable. Most importantly, the system requires little bandwidth for
>> > radio control and audio. I can use the K3 remote system controlling a K3
>> > station in rural southeast Georgia which has a DSL connection and max
>> > upload of 1.2 MBps.  In most cases, it is 768 Mbps.  In addition, it is
>> a
>> > ’self-contained’ system where no one else has connectivity and the
>> > connection is directly between the remote and the K3.  I am not
>> dependent
>> > upon Elecraft to maintain a system for managing my connections.
>> However,
>> > this approach also requires separate means to manage the KPA500 and
>> KAT500.
>> >
>> > The Remote Rig RC-1216H provides a web interface for the KPA500 and I
>> use
>> > a second RC-1216H to control the rotor (Green Heron RT-21 managing an
>> Orion
>> > Rotor).  Of course, there isn’t a panadapter remote option which would
>> take
>> > uplink bandwidth. What I miss is the direct controllability of the
>> KAT500
>> > which requires the KAT500 utility to be controlled remotely.  I’ve done
>> > this using a Serial-to-Ethernet converter, but I don’t llke it because
>> it
>> > requires a PC to run it.  I hope at some point that Remote Rig would
>> > upgrade the firmware to manage the KAT500 so that I can use any
>> web-capable
>> > device (iPad, iPhone, Mac, PC, etc.).
>> >
>> > Overall, the system works very well and I’ve been using it since
>> September
>> > 2014 without problems.  I now keep a K3/0-Mini system at two different
>> > locations (Texas and New England) both of which cannot support a ham
>> > station on site.
>> >
>> > The Flex System overcomes some of the weaknesses of the K3 approach and
>> of
>> > course it has a remote panadapter capabiity.  But it has taken Flex over
>> > five years to provide the remote capability at significantly higher cost
>> > and requires greater upload bandwidth.  SmartSDR 2.0 was introduced in
>> 2017
>> > which means for four years I could only operate the Flex-6700 when at
>> the
>> > shack.  Flex’s approach is dependent upon a server-based system to
>> > establish a secure link, a license fee if you’re upgrading from Version
>> 1
>> > to Version 2 or Version 2 to (just announced) Version 3 of SmartSDR.
>> Flex
>> > Radio has to maintain a server system to control access remotely.  The
>> PGXL
>> > amplifier can be controlled directly through Maestro or a PC running
>> > SmartSDR v2.xx operating from a remote site.  However, the “Tuner
>> Genius”
>> > that is promised to go with the PGXL has not been released, so I’m
>> limited
>> > to using my EFHW antenna to the KAT500 and the K3 setup since I do need
>> to
>> > use a tuner with it.  I will say that the bandwidth requirements of the
>> > Flex under the current V2.49 SmartSDR is significantly less than in the
>> > past so it works more reliably in “Low Bandwidth" mode.  I also keep a
>> > Maestro in both Texas and New England.
>> >
>> > Having two different remote systems with different feature sets does
>> > provide some advantages:
>> >
>> > -Redundancy. In the event one system has a remote issue, I have the
>> other
>> > to use as a backup.
>> >
>> > -Flexibility.  I like to ‘listen’ so much of my time is spent listening
>> or
>> > participating on nets.  The K3 setup works well since I’m not
>> particularly
>> > “hunting” for signals where a panadapter would be useful.  Simply turn
>> on
>> > the K3 and I’m on the last frequency I was tuned or I can enter the
>> > frequency of interest.  I have the tuner and amplifier as needed, and
>> 500W
>> > is usually more than sufficient for my needs.    The Flex is more
>> helpful
>> > if I’m searching the bands with a panadapter/waterfall, but the PGXL is
>> > only helpful on 10-15-20 where I have a yagi and don’t need to a tuner
>> > capable of handling the PGXL.  Due to bandwidth issues, the Flex system
>> > does sometime ‘hiccup’ due to missed packets though this happens a lot
>> less
>> > than previously.
>> >
>> > -Space.  I spend 90% of my operating time running remote.  At my
>> locations
>> > in Texas and New England I have the Maestro and K3/0-Mini sitting on my
>> 30”
>> > x 60’ office desk by the 27” Apple Display with West Mountain Radio
>> > external speakers that can be used with either system.  The Remote Rig
>> > equipment, cabling, network ethernet switch, 120 VAC surge protected hub
>> > that powers the Remote Rig equipment, network switch, Maestro, Speakers,
>> > K3/0-Mini are either sitting on the floor or held in place with cable
>> ties
>> > attached around the desk legs, out-of-the-way and out-of-sight.  Of
>> course,
>> > the ham shack itself in Georgia is a different matter given the amount
>> of
>> > equipment installed, but the operating position has the real estate to
>> > handle it. (approximately 12 ft. x 30” of desk space).
>> >
>> > -Equipment Complexity:  The K3/0-Mini and Remote Rig RRC-1258 are
>> > relatively simple devices.  I’ve not had any issues with these devices
>> and
>> > while there have been firmware upgrades they are few and not necessarily
>> > required.  The Maestro is a much more complex piece of equipment which
>> is
>> > essentially a device with built-in tablet that takes significant time to
>> > boot up and has firmware that controls the various knobs and indications
>> > and of course communicates with the Flex server to establish a
>> connection
>> > to my Flex-6700.  Any update to SmartSDR (the most recent was last
>> December
>> > 2018 to v2.49 while Flex has announced that v3.0 will be available in
>> March
>> > 2019) requires an update to the Flex-6700 and Maestro.  This can be done
>> > remotely, but it also reflects the greater complexity of the system.
>> >
>> > My original Maestro (purchased new in 2017) has been recalled once at no
>> > charge and sent back once for non-warranty repairs.
>> >
>> > -Isolation.  Running remote reduces the potential for surge issues where
>> > I’m actually operating as there are no external antennas.
>> >
>> > At the ham shack in Southeast Georgia, I have the K3 equipment
>> physically
>> > separate from the Flex Equipment going through separate ethernet
>> switches
>> > and isolated with Fiber Optic Converters for CAT5 connections to help
>> > reduce the probability of surge problems or a  ethernet switch failure
>> in
>> > the shack taking down both systems. RF connection of both systems to the
>> > antennas and dummy load is thorough an Antenna Genius which provides
>> high
>> > isolation between antenna ports. The DSL modem and separate router are
>> in
>> > the house while the ham shack itself is located in an air conditioned
>> room
>> > located in the detached garage.  I run a fiber optic cable between the
>> > house and ham shack to further isolate the network equipment in the
>> house
>> > from the shack.
>> >
>> > Bottom line is that I like both systems and each system offers
>> > capabilities that the other does not have.  Given that I’m over 1,100
>> miles
>> > from the ham shack most of the time, I’ve benefited from redundancy
>> because
>> > things can go wrong and cannot be fixed until my next trip to southeast
>> > Georgia. Over the past year I’ve had issues with one or the other system
>> > but usually the other system is still up and running.
>> >
>> > From the user’s perspective, I do suggest that one needs to to carefully
>> > consider how exactly they will operate their system and what level of
>> > investment ($$$, sweat equity, real estate) they’re wiling or able to
>> put
>> > into a remote system.  Flex’s approach is certainly successful, but it
>> is a
>> > complex and more expensive system that has taken many more years to
>> develop
>> > than what Flex initially announced.  Electraft’s approach is ’simpler’
>> in
>> > terms of making it possible to operate remotely, but it does appear
>> > relatively ‘kludgy’ given that it could certainly be streamlined if they
>> > thought it is worth the time and effort.    If one is focused on ’pickup
>> > and go’ remote operation, the Flex Maestro (or SmartSDR on a laptop or
>> > SmartSDR for iOS on an Apple iPad) is certainly easier to manage than
>> > taking the K3/0-Mini with remote Rig setup.  i have transported both the
>> > Maestro and K3/0-Mini w/Remote Rig in their respective Pelican Cases
>> > between locations before so I appreciate the steps needed to take down
>> and
>> > setup this equipment.  I later purchased used K3/O-Mini and Maestro
>> devices
>> > to eliminate the need to transport (and take up space in my vehicle)
>> > between Texas (Fall/Winter) and New England (Spring/Summer) when cargo
>> > space is at a premium when transporting the XYL, family dog and the
>> > clothing and other items needed at the other QTH.
>> >
>> >
>> > FWIW,
>> >
>> > Barry Baines, WD4ASW
>> > (Keller, TX)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > 73,
>> > > Fred
>> > > AE4ED
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 8:12 AM Jorge Diez - CX6VM <
>> > [hidden email]>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Hello
>> > >>
>> > >> any idea if will be a new control radio for remote? Like K3/0 Mini
>> with
>> > >> remoterig integrated inside it?
>> > >>
>> > >> Maybe for Dayton will have it?
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >> 73,
>> > >> Jorge
>> > >> CX6VM/CW5W
>> > >> ______________________________________________________________
>> > >> Elecraft mailing list
>> > >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> > >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> > >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>> > >>
>> > >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> > >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> > >>
>> > > ______________________________________________________________
>> > > Elecraft mailing list
>> > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> > > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>> > >
>> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> >
>> > ______________________________________________________________
>> > Elecraft mailing list
>> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>> >
>> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>
> --
> 73,
> Jorge
> CX6VM/CW5W
>

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