size of radio limits?
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I do not accept Elecraft's reasoning that their rig is "too small for that
feature." At under 9 lbs, and the dimensions less than a loaf of bread, the K3 is already so small that it is nearing functional limits on the front panel compared to the size of fingers. And, yes, I think the IC-706 went well beyond the functional limit... too small. Ok, let us say a couple of desired features, like band stacking registers, would have added a half inch height to the front panel.... oh, gee, what a horror! Let us say another feature like band buttons or two other features would have added a whole pound to its weight, oh, no, its maybe even 12 pounds & I can't carry it !!! Please, when a radio is this small, sacrificing reasonable other features because of size or weight is just not a reasonable excuse in my book. Cost, maybe; size, no. When ever did a ham say, "oh gosh, this radio is just too big"? Maybe the one day when he carries it onto his desk? Many more likely say, as I have hrd so often, "the rig is too llittle for me." So where is the drive coming from for smaller is better? Ok, mobile rigs need to be small. So, I am going mobile with my K3 ? not, and few are, I bet. There does not even seem to be a mobile mount sold with it, telling us something there. "I need a light rig for DXpeditions"-- got one already (706), and how few K3 owners will go on DXpeditions? Maybe 2 dozen? So, maybe the need for a small K3 amounts to about 100 mobile uses and maybe 50 DXpeditioners. For 150 customers, lets design a small radio and let the other thousands of buyers cope with tiny, but, let us excuse left off features by saying "everyone wanted it small" Ha ! BUT, please keep my order for a K3 kit active !!!! 73 Charles Harpole [hidden email] _________________________________________________________________ http://newlivehotmail.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Charles,
I'm the principal designer of the K3. I agonized over size/weight/functionality constraints for a full year, with a lot of help from twelve very smart colleagues, including my Elecraft co-founder Eric (WA6HHQ). Dozens of variables were debated. I went through over 200 iterations of the concept drawing. You could burn my 2005 phone bill to power a small town. I lost most of my hair, buried two cats, had a son, and worked until dawn more times than I want to admit. What you see is what you get :) 73, Wayne N6KR On Jul 26, 2007, at 11:06 PM, Charles Harpole wrote: > I do not accept Elecraft's reasoning... > --- http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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I want this on a T-shirt! - jeff wk6i wayne burdick wrote: > > I'm the principal designer of the K3. I agonized over > size/weight/functionality constraints for a full year, with a lot of > help from twelve very smart colleagues, including my Elecraft co-founder > Eric (WA6HHQ). Dozens of variables were debated. I went through over 200 > iterations of the concept drawing. You could burn my 2005 phone bill to > power a small town. I lost most of my hair, buried two cats, had a son, > and worked until dawn more times than I want to admit. > > What you see is what you get :) > -- Jeff Stai [hidden email] Twisted Oak Winery http://www.twistedoak.com/ Winery Blog http://www.elbloggotorcido.com/ _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Charly
I don't get this rant. There ARE band-stacking registers on the K3. In
fact, FOUR per band instead of the three per band on the ProIII and only two per band in some other radios. Yes, the band-changing UI is different than the ProIII and other radios, but you know what? ... I've gotten to like it even more, once I opened my mind up to a different UI. Believe me, I and several other focus group members and field testers have pounded on Wayne and the design team for over two years now on the critical features needed in the K3. Band registers is one of them. Yes, the K3 band-changing UI is different than many other radios, but that doesn't make it "wrong" or "bad" or "inferior" ... just different. I suggest you QRX until you get your hands on a K3 and that you approach it with an open mind. It is an amazing and impressive radio. 73, Ed - W0YK > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Charles Harpole > Sent: Thursday, 26 July, 2007 23:06 > To: [hidden email] > Subject: [Elecraft] size of radio limits? > > I do not accept Elecraft's reasoning that their rig is "too > small for that feature." At under 9 lbs, and the dimensions > less than a loaf of bread, the > K3 is already so small that it is nearing functional limits > on the front panel compared to the size of fingers. And, > yes, I think the IC-706 went well beyond the functional > limit... too small. > > Ok, let us say a couple of desired features, like band > stacking registers, would have added a half inch height to > the front panel.... oh, gee, what a horror! Let us say > another feature like band buttons or two other features > would have added a whole pound to its weight, oh, no, its > maybe even 12 pounds & I can't carry it !!! > > Please, when a radio is this small, sacrificing reasonable > other features because of size or weight is just not a > reasonable excuse in my book. Cost, maybe; size, no. > > When ever did a ham say, "oh gosh, this radio is just too > big"? Maybe the one day when he carries it onto his desk? > Many more likely say, as I have hrd so often, "the rig is too > llittle for me." So where is the drive coming from for > smaller is better? > > Ok, mobile rigs need to be small. So, I am going mobile with > my K3 ? not, and few are, I bet. There does not even seem > to be a mobile mount sold with it, telling us something there. > > "I need a light rig for DXpeditions"-- got one already (706), > and how few K3 owners will go on DXpeditions? Maybe 2 dozen? > So, maybe the need for a small K3 amounts to about 100 mobile > uses and maybe 50 DXpeditioners. For 150 customers, lets > design a small radio and let the other thousands of buyers > cope with tiny, but, let us excuse left off features by > saying "everyone wanted it small" Ha ! > > BUT, please keep my order for a K3 kit active !!!! 73 > > Charles Harpole > [hidden email] > > _________________________________________________________________ > http://newlivehotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: Re: size of radio limits?
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In reply to this post by wayne burdick
In the spirit of the movie Tommy Boy: "That was ------ awesome! -----------
but sorry about your cats and hair though...". I usually lurk here, but couldn't resist commenting on Wayne's response to an apparent rant. I got my hands on the K3 in Dayton while working in the Elecraft booth. I watched Wayne, Eric, Lyle and many others, tirelessly; give demonstrations of the multiple units in the booth. After spending a few hours with the K3, you can see the hours of "agony" that went into the UI and that like anything new, it just takes a little time to find your way around it. I have a software development background with a lot of UI development, and after talking and listening to Wayne after a few hours, you can tell that this UI has gone through painstaking iterative design. I can assure you that all of the common functions are a button away. Others are only a couple of buttons away. In fact much more functionality is available on the front panel than the K2 and I didn't think the K2 was bad after learning the ropes, so to speak. I'm sure there is no way to satisfy everyone, but I think after spending a little time with this radio, the sharpest critics will begin to see the beauty. And, if there is something more you need, all of the functions have been externalized for software (and some hardware) control so you can roll your own (as I'm sure Simon is doing right now). Besides, if they put everything the K3 can do on a front panel, you would have to put the UI on a panel the size of a wall, and as a short Ham, I would have to resort to a ladder to reach the top buttons :-) Wayne, Eric, Lyle, all at Elecraft, all of the beta testers, and all of the list contributors, keep up the good work. It is VERY evident to me that the K3 is going to be a great product and I am patiently waiting for mine to arrive. And I mean patiently - the delay does not bother me one bit knowing that I'm going to receive your best effort when it hits my door. Besides, I'm still having a great time with my K2 and playing around with some different antennas this summer. Stay the course, get some sleep when you can - can't help you with the hair - I lost all of mine long ago! BTW Wayne - congrats on your son. Hope you get to spend some time with him :-) 73, Dave W8FGU > Charles, > > I'm the principal designer of the K3. I agonized over > size/weight/functionality constraints for a full year, with a lot of > help from twelve very smart colleagues, including my Elecraft > co-founder Eric (WA6HHQ). Dozens of variables were debated. I went > through over 200 iterations of the concept drawing. You could burn my > 2005 phone bill to power a small town. I lost most of my hair, buried > two cats, had a son, and worked until dawn more times than I want to > admit. > > What you see is what you get :) > > 73, > Wayne > N6KR _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by wayne burdick
I would -NOT- want to see the K3 larger, especially if only
to accomodate a band display! I've just sold an IC-756 PRO II to help cover the cost of my K3 ... never used the band display. The small size is a (minor) consideration in my choice. It will be used in our RV six months out of each year, as is/was my K2. 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP [hidden email] _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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> The small size is a (minor) consideration in my choice.
> It will be used in our RV six months out of each year, > as is/was my K2. I wasn't going to contribute to the noise, but with people questioning the relative importance of size I wanted to add one voice in favor of small. I work from home. I have two computers under my desk and two monitors on top. My "shack" is an area about 24" wide and 24" deep on one of the arms of my wrap-around desk. My K3 will be under my K2 which is under my K1 which is under my KX1. The only reason (ONLY reason) I don't own any cool vintage Collins equipment (which was made here in Cedar Rapids and is where I used to work) is because I don't have room for it. I know I'm the only one to whom size matters. We all have different reasons, I'm sure, but I'm willing to bet that size, weight, appearance, cost, and other "superficial" issues are at least as important, if not more important, to many of us than are receiver sensitivity, band stacking registers, roofing filters, and other features and performance issues. To make supposedly "objective" observations about the relative merits of any one feature or benefit of the K3 or any radio is to be myopic at best and narcissistic at worst. Craig NZ0R _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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What can I say? We pored over many ancient texts on archaeology,
architecture, alchemistry, and the Dynamics of Mojo. We consulted Ouija. We drank strong northern California herbal teas and stout Microbrew. Under the circumstances, the evidence was irrefutable: only an enclosure exactly 4"H, 10 1/2"W, and 10"D would optimize the index of cognitive gestalt for a multipurpose amateur transceiver. 73, Wayne N6KR On Jul 27, 2007, at 2:19 PM, Craig Rairdin wrote: >> The small size is a (minor) consideration in my choice. >> It will be used in our RV six months out of each year, >> as is/was my K2. > > I wasn't going to contribute to the noise, but with people questioning > the > relative importance of size I wanted to add one voice in favor of > small. --- http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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So it had nothing to do with the fact that it looked nice? :)
Must remember to get "cognitive gestalt" into my next dull meeting at work! 73 Paul M1PAF -----Original Message----- Under the circumstances, the evidence was irrefutable: only an enclosure exactly 4"H, 10 1/2"W, and 10"D would optimize the index of cognitive gestalt for a multipurpose amateur transceiver. 73, Wayne N6KR _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by wayne burdick
Expelliarmus!
Accio K3! Leigh/WA5ZNU N6KR wrote: > What can I say? We pored over many ancient texts on archaeology, > architecture, alchemistry, and the Dynamics of Mojo. We consulted > Ouija.... _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Ken Kopp
In a message dated 7/27/07 5:55:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[hidden email] writes: > only > an enclosure exactly 4"H, 10 1/2"W, and 10"D would optimize the index > of cognitive gestalt for a multipurpose amateur transceiver. > Sure beats having it be a monolithic black slab in the ratio 1:4:9. --- "Four hours to bury a cat?" (too obscure?) -- Seriously, though, *any* rig design is a set of compromises. Size, performance, features, price, power consumption, etc. - you can't have and eat the same cake, etc. 73 de Jim, N2EY who gave up coffee ten years ago, and now has only tea... ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by wayne burdick
wayne burdick wrote:
> We drank strong northern California herbal teas and stout Microbrew. I didn't know Starbuck's had "strong herbal teas." But then, Elecraft IS in the "Bay Area," as is Barry Bonds. I was aware of the stout Microbrew however. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2007 CQP Oct 6-7 - www.cqp.org _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Ken Kopp
> I wasn't going to contribute to the noise, but with people questioning the
> relative importance of size I wanted to add one voice in favor of small. > > I know I'm the only one to whom size matters. This last was probably a typo, no? :-) I'll echo your sentiments. My "shack" is the small back corner of my desk that remains after my work and the house expenses and general paperwork cover the rest, in a home office shared with my very patient XYL. The K2 and Schurr Profi fit perfectly; the power supply is down on the floor in a not very inconvenient spot. I just rearranged things to make room for an EC2 with KPA/KAT100, and I have to tell you, it was a challenge... 73 de chris K6DBG _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Leigh L. Klotz Jr WA5ZNU
If that worked, may I borrow your wand?
Mike W5FTD > Expelliarmus! > Accio K3! > Leigh/WA5ZNU > N6KR wrote: >> What can I say? We pored over many ancient texts on archaeology, >> architecture, alchemistry, and the Dynamics of Mojo. We consulted >> Ouija.... > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Charly
Well, we will get what we get.
Small is nice, and I think the K3 would make a GREAT mobile rig, I might try it! It should be great on 10 when that band opens up. Elecraft has always taken into account size, weight, and power on their rigs, as many carry them up mountains and all over the world. They are the best rigs for that. That is why I think it would be neat to offer a home version of the K3, same circuits as a K3, but in a larger box and with a band scope and band buttons (or more one button, one push functions). I would guess once you make a rig this good, with all the features and performance the K3 has, and not as a kit, loads of mainstream people will want one, to sit on the desk of their large shack, and being small will annoy them. There were complaints about the K2 being too small from those types. I was looking on ebay last night, and found a remote color display for some rig, a nice standalone color display like a small computer LCD monitor, for $140.00 each. The display looked better than what is on the ten tec rigs! So maybe adding one would not be so expensive as it looks... I got to wonder how big Elecraft wants to get, with the new K3 and the K3 home version, the amplifiers they are working on, plus all the other stuff they sell, they could get quite huge if they wanted to I would think... Or would that ruin things? Brett N2DTS > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Charles Harpole > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 2:06 AM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: [Elecraft] size of radio limits? > > I do not accept Elecraft's reasoning that their rig is "too > small for that > feature." At under 9 lbs, and the dimensions less than a > loaf of bread, the > K3 is already so small that it is nearing functional limits > on the front > panel compared to the size of fingers. And, yes, I think the > IC-706 went > well beyond the functional limit... too small. > > Ok, let us say a couple of desired features, like band > stacking registers, > would have added a half inch height to the front panel.... > oh, gee, what a > horror! Let us say another feature like band buttons or two > other features > would have added a whole pound to its weight, oh, no, its > maybe even 12 > pounds & I can't carry it !!! > > Please, when a radio is this small, sacrificing reasonable > other features > because of size or weight is just not a reasonable excuse in > my book. Cost, > maybe; size, no. > > When ever did a ham say, "oh gosh, this radio is just too > big"? Maybe the > one day when he carries it onto his desk? Many more likely > say, as I have > hrd so often, "the rig is too llittle for me." So where is > the drive coming > from for smaller is better? > > Ok, mobile rigs need to be small. So, I am going mobile with > my K3 ? not, > and few are, I bet. There does not even seem to be a mobile > mount sold with > it, telling us something there. > > "I need a light rig for DXpeditions"-- got one already (706), > and how few K3 > owners will go on DXpeditions? Maybe 2 dozen? So, maybe the > need for a > small K3 amounts to about 100 mobile uses and maybe 50 > DXpeditioners. For > 150 customers, lets design a small radio and let the other > thousands of > buyers cope with tiny, but, let us excuse left off features > by saying > "everyone wanted it small" Ha ! > > BUT, please keep my order for a K3 kit active !!!! 73 > > Charles Harpole > [hidden email] > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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