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slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka Linksys produces birdies)

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John Shadle

slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka Linksys produces birdies)

I just completed my K3S build and initial configuration. Woohoo. I was
tuning around the bands, and I noticed birdies *everywhere*. Every 20-30Hz
on 40m there was one -- and it was LOUD. I thought that something was up
with my build, but then started doing an internet search for "K3 birdies".
I saw one person (from a 2010 post on this list) note that the birdies
could be coming from network devices (routers). A-ha!

Initially, I thought it had something to do with my ASUS wireless router
being extremely close to my operation location. I unplugged it, and the
noise went away. Then I plugged it back in and removed, one by one, the
connections to various devices (network storage, my shack computer, and the
line that runs to my upstairs office). It just so happens that I had
installed a network switch recently (produced by Linksys, and on sale at
Best Buy last week). I unplugged the cable going to that switch, and the
noise went away. I then plugged it back in, and went to the office and
disconnected the power from the Linksys switch. Noise is gone again.

So, I'm looking for a new network switch. Does anyone have advice on what
has worked for them?

Alternately, any idea on how to get the network switch from producing these
awful birdies?

I'm *not* looking for a new router -- but just a switch.

Thanks.
-john NE4U
Madison, WI
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Robert Nobis - N7RJN

Re: slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka Linksys produces birdies)

John,

Take a look at Jim Brown’s (K9YC) RFI tutorial: http://audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf

73,

Bob Nobis - N7RJN
[hidden email]

> On Feb 3, 2016, at 23:07, John Shadle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I just completed my K3S build and initial configuration. Woohoo. I was
> tuning around the bands, and I noticed birdies *everywhere*. Every 20-30Hz
> on 40m there was one -- and it was LOUD. I thought that something was up
> with my build, but then started doing an internet search for "K3 birdies".
> I saw one person (from a 2010 post on this list) note that the birdies
> could be coming from network devices (routers). A-ha!
>
> Initially, I thought it had something to do with my ASUS wireless router
> being extremely close to my operation location. I unplugged it, and the
> noise went away. Then I plugged it back in and removed, one by one, the
> connections to various devices (network storage, my shack computer, and the
> line that runs to my upstairs office). It just so happens that I had
> installed a network switch recently (produced by Linksys, and on sale at
> Best Buy last week). I unplugged the cable going to that switch, and the
> noise went away. I then plugged it back in, and went to the office and
> disconnected the power from the Linksys switch. Noise is gone again.
>
> So, I'm looking for a new network switch. Does anyone have advice on what
> has worked for them?
>
> Alternately, any idea on how to get the network switch from producing these
> awful birdies?
>
> I'm *not* looking for a new router -- but just a switch.
>
> Thanks.
> -john NE4U
> Madison, WI
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Jerry Moore

Re: slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka Linksys produces birdies)

In reply to this post by John Shadle

You may try simply grounding the switch. I've resolved much of my station
noise with grounding and some basic shielding. It's an ongoing process.
I started with no proper grounds and am slowly adding them. It's amazing to
see the differences.

Jerry Moore
CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
Patriotic.

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of John
Shadle
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 1:07 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka Linksys
produces birdies)

I just completed my K3S build and initial configuration. Woohoo. I was
tuning around the bands, and I noticed birdies *everywhere*. Every 20-30Hz
on 40m there was one -- and it was LOUD. I thought that something was up
with my build, but then started doing an internet search for "K3 birdies".
I saw one person (from a 2010 post on this list) note that the birdies could
be coming from network devices (routers). A-ha!

Initially, I thought it had something to do with my ASUS wireless router
being extremely close to my operation location. I unplugged it, and the
noise went away. Then I plugged it back in and removed, one by one, the
connections to various devices (network storage, my shack computer, and the
line that runs to my upstairs office). It just so happens that I had
installed a network switch recently (produced by Linksys, and on sale at
Best Buy last week). I unplugged the cable going to that switch, and the
noise went away. I then plugged it back in, and went to the office and
disconnected the power from the Linksys switch. Noise is gone again.

So, I'm looking for a new network switch. Does anyone have advice on what
has worked for them?

Alternately, any idea on how to get the network switch from producing these
awful birdies?

I'm *not* looking for a new router -- but just a switch.

Thanks.
-john NE4U
Madison, WI
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Larry (K8UT)

Re: slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka Linksysproduces birdies)

In reply to this post by John Shadle

John,

I had a similar situation here with a LinkSys switch. Tried a NetGear switch
and the birdies moved - but were still present. Solved the problem by moving
all networked devices from cat5 10 mb to cat6 1000t gigabit ethernet.

-larry (K8UT)
-----Original Message-----
From: John Shadle
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 1:07 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka
Linksysproduces birdies)

I just completed my K3S build and initial configuration. Woohoo. I was
tuning around the bands, and I noticed birdies *everywhere*. Every 20-30Hz
on 40m there was one -- and it was LOUD. I thought that something was up
with my build, but then started doing an internet search for "K3 birdies".
I saw one person (from a 2010 post on this list) note that the birdies
could be coming from network devices (routers). A-ha!

Initially, I thought it had something to do with my ASUS wireless router
being extremely close to my operation location. I unplugged it, and the
noise went away. Then I plugged it back in and removed, one by one, the
connections to various devices (network storage, my shack computer, and the
line that runs to my upstairs office). It just so happens that I had
installed a network switch recently (produced by Linksys, and on sale at
Best Buy last week). I unplugged the cable going to that switch, and the
noise went away. I then plugged it back in, and went to the office and
disconnected the power from the Linksys switch. Noise is gone again.

So, I'm looking for a new network switch. Does anyone have advice on what
has worked for them?

Alternately, any idea on how to get the network switch from producing these
awful birdies?

I'm *not* looking for a new router -- but just a switch.

Thanks.
-john NE4U
Madison, WI
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David Ahrendts

Re: slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka Linksysproduces birdies)

John, I’ll concur with Larry. I have several D-Link gigabit switches using CAT6 cable with no apparent noise, and I believe their “green” technology actually shuts off unused ports when not in use. Amazon.

David A., KK6DA, LA

> On Feb 5, 2016, at 1:48 AM, Larry Gauthier (K8UT) <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> John,
>
> I had a similar situation here with a LinkSys switch. Tried a NetGear switch and the birdies moved - but were still present. Solved the problem by moving all networked devices from cat5 10 mb to cat6 1000t gigabit ethernet.
>
> -larry (K8UT)
> -----Original Message----- From: John Shadle
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 1:07 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka Linksysproduces birdies)
>
> I just completed my K3S build and initial configuration. Woohoo. I was
> tuning around the bands, and I noticed birdies *everywhere*. Every 20-30Hz
> on 40m there was one -- and it was LOUD. I thought that something was up
> with my build, but then started doing an internet search for "K3 birdies".
> I saw one person (from a 2010 post on this list) note that the birdies
> could be coming from network devices (routers). A-ha!
>
> Initially, I thought it had something to do with my ASUS wireless router
> being extremely close to my operation location. I unplugged it, and the
> noise went away. Then I plugged it back in and removed, one by one, the
> connections to various devices (network storage, my shack computer, and the
> line that runs to my upstairs office). It just so happens that I had
> installed a network switch recently (produced by Linksys, and on sale at
> Best Buy last week). I unplugged the cable going to that switch, and the
> noise went away. I then plugged it back in, and went to the office and
> disconnected the power from the Linksys switch. Noise is gone again.
>
> So, I'm looking for a new network switch. Does anyone have advice on what
> has worked for them?
>
> Alternately, any idea on how to get the network switch from producing these
> awful birdies?
>
> I'm *not* looking for a new router -- but just a switch.
>
> Thanks.
> -john NE4U
> Madison, WI
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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Clay Autery

Re: slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka Linksysproduces birdies)

In reply to this post by Larry (K8UT)

If changing the cabling was the solution for your "birdies" then it
would appear the issue was not with the switch hardware, but with poorly
constructed cables.

There are a LOT of CAT-5 and CAT-5e labels on cables out there that
simply aren't. There's a list of specs involved, fairly lengthy one,
all of which must be met to qualify a cable at a specific grade.
Most cables that fail a check because they missed something in the
termination procedure (not signal routing).

______________________
Clay Autery
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 2/5/2016 3:48 AM, Larry Gauthier (K8UT) wrote:
> John,
>
> I had a similar situation here with a LinkSys switch. Tried a NetGear
> switch and the birdies moved - but were still present. Solved the
> problem by moving all networked devices from cat5 10 mb to cat6 1000t
> gigabit ethernet.
>
> -larry (K8UT)

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John Shadle

Re: slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka Linksysproduces birdies)

In reply to this post by David Ahrendts

Thank, all. I may have to look into that. It may just involve changing out
some runs of the cable. I used either CAT5 or CAT5e in all my runs. Just
odd that the noise is coming from the one location and not the others,
though. Ah well!

-john NE4U

On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 8:15 AM, David Ahrendts <[hidden email]> wrote:

> John, I’ll concur with Larry. I have several D-Link gigabit switches using
> CAT6 cable with no apparent noise, and I believe their “green” technology
> actually shuts off unused ports when not in use. Amazon.
>
> David A., KK6DA, LA
>
> On Feb 5, 2016, at 1:48 AM, Larry Gauthier (K8UT) <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> John,
>
> I had a similar situation here with a LinkSys switch. Tried a NetGear
> switch and the birdies moved - but were still present. Solved the problem
> by moving all networked devices from cat5 10 mb to cat6 1000t gigabit
> ethernet.
>
> -larry (K8UT)
> -----Original Message----- From: John Shadle
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 1:07 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka
> Linksysproduces birdies)
>
> I just completed my K3S build and initial configuration. Woohoo. I was
> tuning around the bands, and I noticed birdies *everywhere*. Every 20-30Hz
> on 40m there was one -- and it was LOUD. I thought that something was up
> with my build, but then started doing an internet search for "K3 birdies".
> I saw one person (from a 2010 post on this list) note that the birdies
> could be coming from network devices (routers). A-ha!
>
> Initially, I thought it had something to do with my ASUS wireless router
> being extremely close to my operation location. I unplugged it, and the
> noise went away. Then I plugged it back in and removed, one by one, the
> connections to various devices (network storage, my shack computer, and the
> line that runs to my upstairs office). It just so happens that I had
> installed a network switch recently (produced by Linksys, and on sale at
> Best Buy last week). I unplugged the cable going to that switch, and the
> noise went away. I then plugged it back in, and went to the office and
> disconnected the power from the Linksys switch. Noise is gone again.
>
> So, I'm looking for a new network switch. Does anyone have advice on what
> has worked for them?
>
> Alternately, any idea on how to get the network switch from producing these
> awful birdies?
>
> I'm *not* looking for a new router -- but just a switch.
>
> Thanks.
> -john NE4U
> Madison, WI
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email] <[hidden email]>
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email] <[hidden email]>
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>
>
>
> David Ahrendts [hidden email]
>
>
>
>
>

Jim Bolit

Re: slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka Linksysproduces birdies)

In reply to this post by David Ahrendts

John,

You changed power supplies.

You changed cables.

You changed................

No telling what "fixed" the issue.

Jim
W6AIM

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Ahrendts
Sent: Friday, February 5, 2016 5:16 AM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka Linksysproduces birdies)

John, I’ll concur with Larry. I have several D-Link gigabit switches using CAT6 cable with no apparent noise, and I believe their “green” technology actually shuts off unused ports when not in use. Amazon.

David A., KK6DA, LA

> On Feb 5, 2016, at 1:48 AM, Larry Gauthier (K8UT) <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> John,
>
> I had a similar situation here with a LinkSys switch. Tried a NetGear switch and the birdies moved - but were still present. Solved the problem by moving all networked devices from cat5 10 mb to cat6 1000t gigabit ethernet.
>
> -larry (K8UT)
> -----Original Message----- From: John Shadle
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 1:07 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka
> Linksysproduces birdies)
>
> I just completed my K3S build and initial configuration. Woohoo. I was
> tuning around the bands, and I noticed birdies *everywhere*. Every
> 20-30Hz on 40m there was one -- and it was LOUD. I thought that
> something was up with my build, but then started doing an internet search for "K3 birdies".
> I saw one person (from a 2010 post on this list) note that the birdies
> could be coming from network devices (routers). A-ha!
>
> Initially, I thought it had something to do with my ASUS wireless
> router being extremely close to my operation location. I unplugged it,
> and the noise went away. Then I plugged it back in and removed, one by
> one, the connections to various devices (network storage, my shack
> computer, and the line that runs to my upstairs office). It just so
> happens that I had installed a network switch recently (produced by
> Linksys, and on sale at Best Buy last week). I unplugged the cable
> going to that switch, and the noise went away. I then plugged it back
> in, and went to the office and disconnected the power from the Linksys switch. Noise is gone again.
>
> So, I'm looking for a new network switch. Does anyone have advice on
> what has worked for them?
>
> Alternately, any idea on how to get the network switch from producing
> these awful birdies?
>
> I'm *not* looking for a new router -- but just a switch.
>
> Thanks.
> -john NE4U
> Madison, WI
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
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> [hidden email]
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> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email]

David Ahrendts [hidden email]

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Larry (K8UT)

Re: slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka Linksysproduces birdies)

In reply to this post by John Shadle

John

I think I have been mis-understood; or perhaps I mis-spoke. ;-)

I could not migrate to gigabit ethernet from 10 MBPS because the CAT5 cable
I was using only had two available pairs. I replaced the CAT5 with CAT6 with
4 available pairs, but that alone would not have solved my birdie problem.
The real "fix" was in the move from 10 -> 1000. I do not believe that
changing cables alone will solve your problem.

-larry (K8UT)
-----Original Message-----
From: John Shadle
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2016 10:14 AM
To: David Ahrendts
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka
Linksysproduces birdies)

Thank, all. I may have to look into that. It may just involve changing out
some runs of the cable. I used either CAT5 or CAT5e in all my runs. Just
odd that the noise is coming from the one location and not the others,
though. Ah well!

-john NE4U

On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 8:15 AM, David Ahrendts <[hidden email]> wrote:

> John, I’ll concur with Larry. I have several D-Link gigabit switches using
> CAT6 cable with no apparent noise, and I believe their “green” technology
> actually shuts off unused ports when not in use. Amazon.
>
> David A., KK6DA, LA
>
> On Feb 5, 2016, at 1:48 AM, Larry Gauthier (K8UT) <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> John,
>
> I had a similar situation here with a LinkSys switch. Tried a NetGear
> switch and the birdies moved - but were still present. Solved the problem
> by moving all networked devices from cat5 10 mb to cat6 1000t gigabit
> ethernet.
>
> -larry (K8UT)
> -----Original Message----- From: John Shadle
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 1:07 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka
> Linksysproduces birdies)
>
> I just completed my K3S build and initial configuration. Woohoo. I was
> tuning around the bands, and I noticed birdies *everywhere*. Every 20-30Hz
> on 40m there was one -- and it was LOUD. I thought that something was up
> with my build, but then started doing an internet search for "K3 birdies".
> I saw one person (from a 2010 post on this list) note that the birdies
> could be coming from network devices (routers). A-ha!
>
> Initially, I thought it had something to do with my ASUS wireless router
> being extremely close to my operation location. I unplugged it, and the
> noise went away. Then I plugged it back in and removed, one by one, the
> connections to various devices (network storage, my shack computer, and
> the
> line that runs to my upstairs office). It just so happens that I had
> installed a network switch recently (produced by Linksys, and on sale at
> Best Buy last week). I unplugged the cable going to that switch, and the
> noise went away. I then plugged it back in, and went to the office and
> disconnected the power from the Linksys switch. Noise is gone again.
>
> So, I'm looking for a new network switch. Does anyone have advice on what
> has worked for them?
>
> Alternately, any idea on how to get the network switch from producing
> these
> awful birdies?
>
> I'm *not* looking for a new router -- but just a switch.
>
> Thanks.
> -john NE4U
> Madison, WI
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email] <[hidden email]>
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
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>
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>
>
>
>
>
> David Ahrendts [hidden email]
>
>
>
>
>

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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka Linksysproduces birdies)

After reading all of this, I investigated my system here. First, no
birdies found on any of the bands. WHEW! Noise on the 160M center fed
wire w/balanced feed line is about S-3 this morning, noise on the coax
fed 75M inverted V is S-2, and noise on the coax fed 40M inverted V is
S-3, and noise on the coax fed 20M inverted V is S-3. These seem to be a
bit higher then normal but it is Saturday and everybody is home in the
neighborhood.

Our system arrives with fiber underground to the box the TELCO provided
on the end of the house. Out of that box runs a CAT5E cable up the
wall, into the attic, across the attic and drops through the ceiling,
then around the bookcase desk to the modem/switch sitting under the
desk. The modem/switch is a CISCO LinkSys EA4500. Two of the ports
are being used, printer and laptop, and the other two are open. The
power for the modem/switch, power for the computer, the printer, the CLF
lamp on the desk along with the radios all come from one power source
being a dedicated 20A service back to the main breaker panel, again at
the far end of the house, on the inside wall, being the same wall the
CAT5E cable runs up to the attic. The run from the TELCO box to the
station is about 75 ft. Same from the breaker panel to the operating
position for station and amp power. Those feeds are #12-2 w/ ground and
#10-3 w/ground respectively. Being in the middle and upstairs of a 2
story house there is no station ground to the outside world, other than
the provided safety 3rd pin ground as required. I do have a dedicated
240V 20A service for the amp and that service is in the attic back to
the main breaker panel.

Antennas are all above the roof, no more than 50 ft and less with the
tower at the corner of the house, and mostly less with a couple, 40M
wire and 20M wire actually having the ends terminated at the eve of the
2nd story. The point being, there is not a lot of physical separation
between the CAT5E cable and the antennas and power wiring.

To me it is very puzzling why so many seem to have issues and a few do
not. I could elaborate about station equipment connectivity. It would
most likely start a controversy as to what is correct and what is
incorrect. My point, if one is having issues, this should trigger a
thought to investigate how and what is configured with the station. In
some cases, I'm sure certain equipment is more prone to generate
noise/birdies than others.

73
Bob, K4TAX

On 2/6/2016 11:24 AM, Larry Gauthier (K8UT) wrote:

Kevin Stover

Re: slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka Linksysproduces birdies)

I am of the opinion that most if not all the issues associated with
"noisy networks" is cheap switching power supplies that comes with the
equipment. Cat5/6 cable in and of itself is pretty immune to noise
pickup because of the twist in the conductors. That twist is there to
knock down crosstalk on the 4 pairs when in full duplex Ethernet
service. The only warning I'm aware of concerning routing of Cat5/6 is
to keep it away from power runs. Most definitely do not run it parallel
for any distance with unshielded romex, and if you have to cross romex
do it perpendicular to the romex run.

I've seen new houses built with all the wire running parallel in a piece
of conduit in the wall. Looks pretty but a recipe for all sorts of
problems like slower than expected or advertised network performance
etc....Power up from the basement and Ethernet down from the attic is a
good idea.

On 2/6/2016 12:03 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

> After reading all of this, I investigated my system here. First, no
> birdies found on any of the bands. WHEW! Noise on the 160M center
> fed wire w/balanced feed line is about S-3 this morning, noise on the
> coax fed 75M inverted V is S-2, and noise on the coax fed 40M
> inverted V is S-3, and noise on the coax fed 20M inverted V is S-3.
> These seem to be a bit higher then normal but it is Saturday and
> everybody is home in the neighborhood.
>
> Our system arrives with fiber underground to the box the TELCO
> provided on the end of the house. Out of that box runs a CAT5E cable
> up the wall, into the attic, across the attic and drops through the
> ceiling, then around the bookcase desk to the modem/switch sitting
> under the desk. The modem/switch is a CISCO LinkSys EA4500. Two of
> the ports are being used, printer and laptop, and the other two are
> open. The power for the modem/switch, power for the computer, the
> printer, the CLF lamp on the desk along with the radios all come from
> one power source being a dedicated 20A service back to the main
> breaker panel, again at the far end of the house, on the inside wall,
> being the same wall the CAT5E cable runs up to the attic. The run
> from the TELCO box to the station is about 75 ft. Same from the
> breaker panel to the operating position for station and amp power.
> Those feeds are #12-2 w/ ground and #10-3 w/ground respectively.
> Being in the middle and upstairs of a 2 story house there is no
> station ground to the outside world, other than the provided safety
> 3rd pin ground as required. I do have a dedicated 240V 20A service
> for the amp and that service is in the attic back to the main breaker
> panel.
>
> Antennas are all above the roof, no more than 50 ft and less with the
> tower at the corner of the house, and mostly less with a couple, 40M
> wire and 20M wire actually having the ends terminated at the eve of
> the 2nd story. The point being, there is not a lot of physical
> separation between the CAT5E cable and the antennas and power wiring.
>
> To me it is very puzzling why so many seem to have issues and a few do
> not. I could elaborate about station equipment connectivity. It
> would most likely start a controversy as to what is correct and what
> is incorrect. My point, if one is having issues, this should trigger
> a thought to investigate how and what is configured with the station.
> In some cases, I'm sure certain equipment is more prone to generate
> noise/birdies than others.
>
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX

--
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H
ARRL
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441

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John Shadle

Re: slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka Linksysproduces birdies)

In reply to this post by Larry (K8UT)

I tried putting loads of mix 31 toroids on the lines, and it did very
little. I'm wondering of moving to gigabit will change things.

I tried using different power supplies I had on hand, but those had
absolutely no effect on the noise. It's coming from the network switch.

-john NE4U
On Feb 6, 2016 11:24 AM, "Larry Gauthier (K8UT)" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> John
>
> I think I have been mis-understood; or perhaps I mis-spoke. ;-)
>
> I could not migrate to gigabit ethernet from 10 MBPS because the CAT5
> cable I was using only had two available pairs. I replaced the CAT5 with
> CAT6 with 4 available pairs, but that alone would not have solved my birdie
> problem. The real "fix" was in the move from 10 -> 1000. I do not believe
> that changing cables alone will solve your problem.
>
> -larry (K8UT)
> -----Original Message----- From: John Shadle
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2016 10:14 AM
> To: David Ahrendts
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka
> Linksysproduces birdies)
>
> Thank, all. I may have to look into that. It may just involve changing out
> some runs of the cable. I used either CAT5 or CAT5e in all my runs. Just
> odd that the noise is coming from the one location and not the others,
> though. Ah well!
>
> -john NE4U
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 8:15 AM, David Ahrendts <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> John, I’ll concur with Larry. I have several D-Link gigabit switches using
>> CAT6 cable with no apparent noise, and I believe their “green” technology
>> actually shuts off unused ports when not in use. Amazon.
>>
>> David A., KK6DA, LA
>>
>> On Feb 5, 2016, at 1:48 AM, Larry Gauthier (K8UT) <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> John,
>>
>> I had a similar situation here with a LinkSys switch. Tried a NetGear
>> switch and the birdies moved - but were still present. Solved the problem
>> by moving all networked devices from cat5 10 mb to cat6 1000t gigabit
>> ethernet.
>>
>> -larry (K8UT)
>> -----Original Message----- From: John Shadle
>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 1:07 AM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: [Elecraft] slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka
>> Linksysproduces birdies)
>>
>> I just completed my K3S build and initial configuration. Woohoo. I was
>> tuning around the bands, and I noticed birdies *everywhere*. Every 20-30Hz
>> on 40m there was one -- and it was LOUD. I thought that something was up
>> with my build, but then started doing an internet search for "K3 birdies".
>> I saw one person (from a 2010 post on this list) note that the birdies
>> could be coming from network devices (routers). A-ha!
>>
>> Initially, I thought it had something to do with my ASUS wireless router
>> being extremely close to my operation location. I unplugged it, and the
>> noise went away. Then I plugged it back in and removed, one by one, the
>> connections to various devices (network storage, my shack computer, and
>> the
>> line that runs to my upstairs office). It just so happens that I had
>> installed a network switch recently (produced by Linksys, and on sale at
>> Best Buy last week). I unplugged the cable going to that switch, and the
>> noise went away. I then plugged it back in, and went to the office and
>> disconnected the power from the Linksys switch. Noise is gone again.
>>
>> So, I'm looking for a new network switch. Does anyone have advice on what
>> has worked for them?
>>
>> Alternately, any idea on how to get the network switch from producing
>> these
>> awful birdies?
>>
>> I'm *not* looking for a new router -- but just a switch.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> -john NE4U
>> Madison, WI
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] <[hidden email]>
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
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>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> David Ahrendts [hidden email]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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>

W Paul Mills

Re: slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka Linksysproduces birdies)

In reply to this post by Kevin Stover

The answer for me was shielded CAT 5. Different switches just produced
noise at different places. Was also greatly affected by devices plugged in.

On 02/06/2016 01:11 PM, Kevin Stover wrote:

> I am of the opinion that most if not all the issues associated with
> "noisy networks" is cheap switching power supplies that comes with the
> equipment. Cat5/6 cable in and of itself is pretty immune to noise
> pickup because of the twist in the conductors. That twist is there to
> knock down crosstalk on the 4 pairs when in full duplex Ethernet
> service. The only warning I'm aware of concerning routing of Cat5/6 is
> to keep it away from power runs. Most definitely do not run it parallel
> for any distance with unshielded romex, and if you have to cross romex
> do it perpendicular to the romex run.
>
> I've seen new houses built with all the wire running parallel in a piece
> of conduit in the wall. Looks pretty but a recipe for all sorts of
> problems like slower than expected or advertised network performance
> etc....Power up from the basement and Ethernet down from the attic is a
> good idea.
> --

/*************************************************
* Amateur Radio Station AC0HY *
* W. Paul Mills SN807 *
* Assistant EC Alpha-1 ARES Shawnee/Wabunsee, KS *
* President Kaw Valley Amateur Radio Club *
*************************************************/
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Clay Autery

Re: slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka Linksysproduces birdies)

In reply to this post by Larry (K8UT)

ALL Cat-5 and CAT-5e is 4-pair wire. All Cat-5 wires are NOT alike...
Just like NOT all HF+6 radios are alike... Buy "Elecraft" quality
CAT-5e cables, and you shouldn't have to worry about it. Unless you're
worried about signal leakage arounf or above the design frequency of
near about 300 MHz.

If y'all really want to know the concrete vs. spec diffs in Cat-5e to
CAT-6, again... I will outline them to you...

Cannot imagine what kind of wire you think was 2-pair and Cat-5....
Only POTS wire is usally seen as 2 pair... and I'm pretty sure it is not
twisted pair... Even CAT-3 is 3-pair...

Whatever works for you, though.

______________________
Clay Autery

On 2/6/2016 11:24 AM, Larry Gauthier (K8UT) wrote:

> John
>
> I think I have been mis-understood; or perhaps I mis-spoke. ;-)
>
> I could not migrate to gigabit ethernet from 10 MBPS because the CAT5
> cable I was using only had two available pairs. I replaced the CAT5
> with CAT6 with 4 available pairs, but that alone would not have solved
> my birdie problem. The real "fix" was in the move from 10 -> 1000. I
> do not believe that changing cables alone will solve your problem.
>
> -larry (K8UT)
> -----Original Message----- From: John Shadle
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2016 10:14 AM
> To: David Ahrendts
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka
> Linksysproduces birdies)
>
> Thank, all. I may have to look into that. It may just involve changing
> out
> some runs of the cable. I used either CAT5 or CAT5e in all my runs. Just
> odd that the noise is coming from the one location and not the others,
> though. Ah well!
>
> -john NE4U
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 8:15 AM, David Ahrendts <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> John, I’ll concur with Larry. I have several D-Link gigabit switches
>> using
>> CAT6 cable with no apparent noise, and I believe their “green”
>> technology
>> actually shuts off unused ports when not in use. Amazon.
>>
>> David A., KK6DA, LA
>>
>> On Feb 5, 2016, at 1:48 AM, Larry Gauthier (K8UT) <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> John,
>>
>> I had a similar situation here with a LinkSys switch. Tried a NetGear
>> switch and the birdies moved - but were still present. Solved the
>> problem
>> by moving all networked devices from cat5 10 mb to cat6 1000t gigabit
>> ethernet.
>>
>> -larry (K8UT)
>> -----Original Message----- From: John Shadle
>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 1:07 AM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: [Elecraft] slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka
>> Linksysproduces birdies)
>>
>> I just completed my K3S build and initial configuration. Woohoo. I was
>> tuning around the bands, and I noticed birdies *everywhere*. Every
>> 20-30Hz
>> on 40m there was one -- and it was LOUD. I thought that something was up
>> with my build, but then started doing an internet search for "K3
>> birdies".
>> I saw one person (from a 2010 post on this list) note that the birdies
>> could be coming from network devices (routers). A-ha!
>>
>> Initially, I thought it had something to do with my ASUS wireless router
>> being extremely close to my operation location. I unplugged it, and the
>> noise went away. Then I plugged it back in and removed, one by one, the
>> connections to various devices (network storage, my shack computer,
>> and the
>> line that runs to my upstairs office). It just so happens that I had
>> installed a network switch recently (produced by Linksys, and on sale at
>> Best Buy last week). I unplugged the cable going to that switch, and the
>> noise went away. I then plugged it back in, and went to the office and
>> disconnected the power from the Linksys switch. Noise is gone again.
>>
>> So, I'm looking for a new network switch. Does anyone have advice on
>> what
>> has worked for them?
>>
>> Alternately, any idea on how to get the network switch from producing
>> these
>> awful birdies?
>>
>> I'm *not* looking for a new router -- but just a switch.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> -john NE4U
>> Madison, WI
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] <[hidden email]>
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
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>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] <[hidden email]>
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> David Ahrendts [hidden email]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>
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Jim Brown-10

Re: slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka Linksysproduces birdies)

In reply to this post by Larry (K8UT)

On Sat,2/6/2016 9:24 AM, Larry Gauthier (K8UT) wrote:
> I could not migrate to gigabit ethernet from 10 MBPS because the CAT5
> cable I was using only had two available pairs.

I'm confused by this statement. CAT5, 5e, and 6 are four pair cables.
The pairs have a tight twist but each has a different twist ratio
("lay") to minimize crosstalk. If the cables are wired per the Ethernet
standard, each circuit should utilize one of the pairs, and in a
specified order. What am I missing?

Now, we can do lots of things with that cable besides Ethernet -- I use
it for RS232 and for running telephone pairs around my home.

73, Jim K9YC
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Edward R Cole

Re: slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka Linksysproduces birdies)

In reply to this post by Larry (K8UT)

Clay,

Perhaps. Several years ago I decided to try to minimize network
caused birdies by obtaining some clamp-on ferrites, but also bought
some shielded Cat 6 cable to replace generic Cat 5e in the
shack. The shielded Cat 6 was very effective in minimizing many 2m
birdies. The clamp-on's were largely ineffective.

I did this mainly to improve 2m for eme operation. I did not check
HF frequencies. Generally atmospheric noise floor is high enough to
bury birdies; 10m and 6m seem most effected. We bought a new Netgear
router (replaced Linksys) and I had some thoughts to enclose it in a
shielded enclosure with ferrites on outputs and cooling fan, but then
my wife acquired a ipad and kindle which all run on wifi...so
shielding would interfere.

I am considering building onto the garage a new 18x26 foot ham shack
so that might improve isolation from the router which would be 72
feet at the other end of the house. I still run wired internet
cabling to shack computers. I suspect the wifi in neighborhood is
bigger issue as is picked up thru the eme antennas and preamps.

I am about to disconnect the XP desk top computer from internet and
run e-mail and internet only on my laptop. Be interesting to see if
that impacts VHF birdies any appreciable amount (K3 and KX3 are
connected to the XP computer). I can eliminate the 5-port ethernet
switch when I do that and only run a single 25-foot +cable from the
router to laptop. Other thing will be elimination of all wall wart
PS in new shack (only have the one laptop PS unit).
----------
My laptop just acquired a 21-inch monitor (from my wife's old XP desk
top which is being recycled; she bought a new laptop last year with
win7 now upgraded to win10...and the desk top was never used after
that. Going thru a general "spring cleaning" to reduce household
clutter and computer got added.

So the shack now has two full-time computers with monitors which will
be handy when monitoring prop loggers and running special ham sw,
simultaneously.

73, Ed - KL7UW
-----------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 07:43:37 -0600
From: Clay Autery <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka
Linksysproduces birdies)
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

If changing the cabling was the solution for your "birdies" then it
would appear the issue was not with the switch hardware, but with poorly
constructed cables.

There are a LOT of CAT-5 and CAT-5e labels on cables out there that
simply aren't. There's a list of specs involved, fairly lengthy one,
all of which must be met to qualify a cable at a specific grade.
Most cables that fail a check because they missed something in the
termination procedure (not signal routing).

______________________
Clay Autery
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
[hidden email]

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Clay Autery

Re: slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka Linksysproduces birdies)

Gooooooood Morning! Isn't it a wonderful day to be alive! :-)

Ed, what follows is not directed specifically AT you... or anyone else
for that matter. I am just trying to put this whole thread into
perspective.

I can only speak to the subject from the perspective of my experience,
which at the time was to design and construct networks for customers
that exceeded the requirements of "normal customers". For these
customers, for whom money was less of an object, and things like signal
integrity, operating "overhead", and signal security were essential
priorities.

1) As best as technology provided, allow no external signal to invade
the data network's signals paths to either alter or obstruct that which
was intended to travel within it.
2) As best as technology provided, allow no internal signal to escape
via the data network's signals path to either be intercepted and/or
become an interference source to coincident systems.
3) As best as technology provided, design should provide an operating
margin (or overhead) of NLT 50% excess to that contained in the minimum
requirements list.

The equipment/systems I was to provide was to be housed in a series of
(for lack of a better word) vaults with something like a "super Faraday
cage" build into the panels. The rooms were connected by a series of
separate cable-ways having the same construction (separated by signal
and power and by signal type). If you zoom out on the whole structure,
it would resemble a series of 100% shielded device chassis,
interconnected by shielded, multi-conductor cables, with the 100%
shielding terminated at each chassis structure to which it connected.
Sound familiar? It should certainly LOOK familiar... Add a good
connection to ground, and you have a series RF to ground system to keep
RF off the device chassis in the shack...

MY task was to construct the data network within the space described
above to include the provision of power systems to feed the network.
Yet, everything I provided was required to perform with the ASSUMPTION
that ALL of what I JUST described above had been totally compromised as
to be assumed NON-existent. So, the testing phase of our build-out was
done under as close as possible to "real world" operations utilizing a
bogus data set IN FREE AIR, meaning in an otherwise unprotected
environment (like an office building or your home or out in the center
of your front yard really).

Point is... We build that network and tested it. Then the customer
tested it with equipment I was not even allowed to look at (really
well-made device chassis with little to no indication as to function,
separate security/shipping boxes that contained what I can only presume
were remoted control heads, etc, etc... racks of the stuff. I and my
folks were put out of the facility, and they tested items 1-3 (not
inclusive) above "IN FREE AIR".

We passed... The mystery test equipment and people went away. We went
to work.

I tell you ALL of the above to tell you this.

I hand-made every single Ethernet jumper cable used in the system above
(RJ-45 on either end). EVERY SINGLE ONE. I made the terminations for
almost every single modular plug. I made every single termination on
every patch panel. I used off-the-shelf, quality CAT-5/5e UTP cable
stock in stranded/solid varieties rated for where it was to be
installed. I used quality RJ-45 (4P8C) modular connectors and connector
boots and/or modular plugs. I used quality tools. I terminated each end
of every cable using the specification for the standard. I tested every
single cable for signal routing and quality of signal.

But I did not use SHIELDED TWISTED PAIR cable. There was not ONE SINGLE
INSTANCE of my CAT-5/5e standard cables being the SOURCE of a "birdie"
or any other RF signal that violated the stringent signal requirements
placed upon me. NOT ONE.
Were there some RF issues to deal with? A few... But as I remember it,
none in HF or low VHF. Using my and other equipment we used logic and
proper troubleshooting to drill down to the SOURCE OF THE OFFENDING
SIGNAL... every single problem SOURCE was DEVICE related. We either
corrected the issue, designed a mitigating solution (rarely), replaced
the device causing the issue, etc.

Signal cabling REVEALS problems. If properly made, they do not CAUSE them.

Bottom Line:

1) Do not pinch pennies on cabling. But do not THROW money at cabling
to create a band-aid over the REAL source of a problem
2) Use logic and proper troubleshooting to ID the source of the problem
instead of trying to HIDE the symptoms. Once the source of the problem
is located, ONLY then do you start searching for a solution to ELIMINATE
THE PROBLEM, not cover it up.

I and an unrepentant over-engineer. But even I choose the RIGHT places
to over-engineer.... and in this case, cabling is not one of the places
I'd choose. Maybe I'll change my mind some day. I doubt it. ;-)

Maybe I should come out of retirement... <big grin>

Y'all have a wonderful morning. LIFE is GOOD because you read this...
which means you are alive!

73,

______________________
Clay Autery

On 2/7/2016 4:04 AM, Edward R Cole wrote:

> Clay,
>
> Perhaps. Several years ago I decided to try to minimize network
> caused birdies by obtaining some clamp-on ferrites, but also bought
> some shielded Cat 6 cable to replace generic Cat 5e in the shack. The
> shielded Cat 6 was very effective in minimizing many 2m birdies. The
> clamp-on's were largely ineffective.
>
> I did this mainly to improve 2m for eme operation. I did not check HF
> frequencies. Generally atmospheric noise floor is high enough to bury
> birdies; 10m and 6m seem most effected. We bought a new Netgear
> router (replaced Linksys) and I had some thoughts to enclose it in a
> shielded enclosure with ferrites on outputs and cooling fan, but then
> my wife acquired a ipad and kindle which all run on wifi...so
> shielding would interfere.
>
> I am considering building onto the garage a new 18x26 foot ham shack
> so that might improve isolation from the router which would be 72 feet
> at the other end of the house. I still run wired internet cabling to
> shack computers. I suspect the wifi in neighborhood is bigger issue as
> is picked up thru the eme antennas and preamps.
>
> I am about to disconnect the XP desk top computer from internet and
> run e-mail and internet only on my laptop. Be interesting to see if
> that impacts VHF birdies any appreciable amount (K3 and KX3 are
> connected to the XP computer). I can eliminate the 5-port ethernet
> switch when I do that and only run a single 25-foot +cable from the
> router to laptop. Other thing will be elimination of all wall wart PS
> in new shack (only have the one laptop PS unit).
> ----------
> My laptop just acquired a 21-inch monitor (from my wife's old XP desk
> top which is being recycled; she bought a new laptop last year with
> win7 now upgraded to win10...and the desk top was never used after
> that. Going thru a general "spring cleaning" to reduce household
> clutter and computer got added.
>
> So the shack now has two full-time computers with monitors which will
> be handy when monitoring prop loggers and running special ham sw,
> simultaneously.
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> -----------------------
> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 07:43:37 -0600
> From: Clay Autery <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka
> Linksysproduces birdies)
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> If changing the cabling was the solution for your "birdies" then it
> would appear the issue was not with the switch hardware, but with poorly
> constructed cables.
>
> There are a LOT of CAT-5 and CAT-5e labels on cables out there that
> simply aren't. There's a list of specs involved, fairly lengthy one,
> all of which must be met to qualify a cable at a specific grade.
> Most cables that fail a check because they missed something in the
> termination procedure (not signal routing).
>
> ______________________
> Clay Autery
> MONTAC Enterprises
> (318) 518-1389
>
>
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> http://www.kl7uw.com
> "Kits made by KL7UW"
> Dubus Mag business:
> [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Kevin Stover

Re: slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka Linksysproduces birdies)

In reply to this post by Clay Autery

I have seen some cheap "CAT5/6" jumper cables designed to hook the
network device to the jack in the wall, that were purchased on E-Bay.
Nuff said. I suspect they were made with stranded conductor wire which
is NOT spec. They were just a little too flexible.

Cable made by Anixter, Avaya, and Belden are top notch, Anixter tests
every batch for compliance with the applicable RFC. I'll bet Avaya and
Belden do too. Problem is you've got to buy 1,000'.

On 2/6/2016 11:01 PM, Clay Autery wrote:

> ALL Cat-5 and CAT-5e is 4-pair wire. All Cat-5 wires are NOT alike...
> Just like NOT all HF+6 radios are alike... Buy "Elecraft" quality
> CAT-5e cables, and you shouldn't have to worry about it. Unless you're
> worried about signal leakage arounf or above the design frequency of
> near about 300 MHz.
>
> If y'all really want to know the concrete vs. spec diffs in Cat-5e to
> CAT-6, again... I will outline them to you...
>
> Cannot imagine what kind of wire you think was 2-pair and Cat-5....
> Only POTS wire is usally seen as 2 pair... and I'm pretty sure it is not
> twisted pair... Even CAT-3 is 3-pair...
>
> Whatever works for you, though.
>
> ______________________
> Clay Autery
>

Edward R Cole

Re: slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka Linksysproduces birdies)

In reply to this post by Larry (K8UT)

Bob,

Could it be that fiber optics cable is the reason? Not much RFI from
photons. Not everyone has access to fiber.

Recently our commercial power was knocked off by a falling tree so
only I had power (from my Honda Gen) and I noticed that the "RF
world" was a whole lot quieter. One could surmise that this was due
to no line noise, but also no neighbors had power for their wi-fi's,
plasma TV's, grow lights, garage arc welders, etc.

This also told me my home appliances were clean! So that limits what
one can do short of hooking up dummy loads for antennas. On HF you
might try RF filters but that is not a smart thing to do in front of
eme low noise figure preamps (i.e. filter insertion loss translates
directly into higher NF and the sensitivity of your eme system is destroyed).

Be nice to have fiber...maybe we'll get it about the time you install
quantum-linked internet. ;-)

73, Ed - KL7UW
---------------------------------------------------
Our system arrives with fiber underground to the box the TELCO provided
on the end of the house.
==snip
To me it is very puzzling why so many seem to have issues and a few do
not. I could elaborate about station equipment connectivity. It would
most likely start a controversy as to what is correct and what is
incorrect. My point, if one is having issues, this should trigger a
thought to investigate how and what is configured with the station. In
some cases, I'm sure certain equipment is more prone to generate
noise/birdies than others.

73
Bob, K4TAX

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
[hidden email]

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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: slightly OT -- acceptable network switch (aka Linksysproduces birdies)

Yes, everything that radiates around your house and even outside your
QTH for up to several miles will basically be additive to the noise
floor. Take away the electricity from a couple of miles around and
you'd be surprised how quite things become. As to fiber, I can't say
our previous copper installation contributed to noise unless the
offending signal was piggybacked as a host and thus induced into the
copper service.

As I have done a bit of EME, VHF & UHF , I do understand how every 0.1
dB of any loss contributes to a higher NF on receive.

I'm surprised to learn that your Honda Generator is clean. Mine sure
isn't. Of course it is an inverter style thus it has switching pulses.

73
Bob, K4TAX

On 2/7/2016 4:22 PM, Edward R Cole wrote:

> Bob,
>
> Could it be that fiber optics cable is the reason? Not much RFI from
> photons. Not everyone has access to fiber.
>
> Recently our commercial power was knocked off by a falling tree so
> only I had power (from my Honda Gen) and I noticed that the "RF world"
> was a whole lot quieter. One could surmise that this was due to no
> line noise, but also no neighbors had power for their wi-fi's, plasma
> TV's, grow lights, garage arc welders, etc.
>
> This also told me my home appliances were clean! So that limits what
> one can do short of hooking up dummy loads for antennas. On HF you
> might try RF filters but that is not a smart thing to do in front of
> eme low noise figure preamps (i.e. filter insertion loss translates
> directly into higher NF and the sensitivity of your eme system is
> destroyed).
>
> Be nice to have fiber...maybe we'll get it about the time you install
> quantum-linked internet. ;-)
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Our system arrives with fiber underground to the box the TELCO provided
> on the end of the house.
> ==snip
> To me it is very puzzling why so many seem to have issues and a few do
> not. I could elaborate about station equipment connectivity. It would
> most likely start a controversy as to what is correct and what is
> incorrect. My point, if one is having issues, this should trigger a
> thought to investigate how and what is configured with the station. In
> some cases, I'm sure certain equipment is more prone to generate
> noise/birdies than others.
>
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> http://www.kl7uw.com
> "Kits made by KL7UW"
> Dubus Mag business:
> [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>