http://elecraft.85.s1.nabble.com/43-Vertical-and-the-K2-tuner-tp2481408p2485303.html
Thank you to all who responded to my post. The one thing in common that all
I am using insulated wire for the radials because it is what I have on hand.
surface. As soon as the rains go away I will finish up the job.
Several suggestions presented by all will be tried. I appreciate your
>
> Roy, I would use #12 stranded house wire for the radiators like you buy at
> home depot and just use two of them. Or if you have some other wire on
> hand, use that. It does not make much difference, but standard is #14 or
> bigger for physical strength. Don't spend too much time making the
> radials resonant because if you bury them they will be detuned. It does
> not matter how far under ground they are. I just hold mine down with some
> of the hooked wires used to tie chain link fence to keep the lawn mower
> from picking them up until the grass grows over them. If you cut a slit,
> make it only about and inch or so deep, cut it with a lawn edger and push
> the wire in with a stick. 64 radials surely should be enough. I have 5
> on my 160/80 inverted L that are 50 feet long. I could probably use more,
> but I have worked DXCC on 40 with a vertical with only one radial 30 feet
> long.
>
> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
> K5EWJ
>
>
> --- On Sun, 3/15/09, Roy Davis <
[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> From: Roy Davis <
[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 43' Vertical
>> To:
[hidden email]
>> Date: Sunday, March 15, 2009, 5:23 PM
>> I am in the process of building a 40 meter 1/4 wave
>> vertical. My hopes for
>> this antenna is that when the conditions favor vertical
>> antennas as opposed
>> to a dipole, that it will help me to work in to the far
>> East as my dipole
>> does not. I understand that a dense radial field is
>> necessary for good
>> results and that the far field which I have no control is a
>> factor. My plan
>> is to use 64 insulated radials as close to resonant as
>> possible, buried a
>> few inches below soil. I thought of using ladder line as
>> the radiator,
>> cutting one side for 40 and the other for 30 meters
>> supported by a catenary
>> line. If that does not prove out, I have aluminum tubing
>> which to make a
>> 1/4 wave for 40. Anyone have any comments pro or con for
>> my project? So
>> far, I have the pipe in the ground, and the radials cut
>> ready to attach to
>> the DX Engineering radial plate.
>>
>> I have K3 #1366 and really like this radio. A lot to offer
>> in such a small
>> package.
>>
>> 73.
>>
>> Roy Davis - WK4Y
>> Richmond VA
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "WILLIS COOKE" <
[hidden email]>
>> To: "James Apple" <
[hidden email]>;
>> <
[hidden email]>; "Darwin,
>> Keith" <
[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 43' Vertical and the K2 tuner
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Keith, in theory the 5/8 vertical should be 3 db
>> stronger than the 1/4
>> > vertical installed in the same position. A ground
>> plane on top of a house
>> > could easily be as good or better than a 5/8 wave
>> ground mounted and
>> > radiating into the side of the house and some trees.
>> 3 db is about 1/2 S
>> > unit anyway, so it will not be a large difference.
>> You are correct about
>> > the far field conductivity being very important in how
>> a vertical antenna
>> > will play, whether it is mounted on top of a tower or
>> house or ground
>> > mounted. The radials are most important to bring up
>> the radiation
>> > efficiency, the far field is most important for the
>> take off angle.
>> >
>> > The 43 foot vertical will have a higher radiation
>> resistance than a
>> > shorter vertical for all bands, making it easier to
>> get the efficiency up.
>> > It will still be lower than 50 ohms for 160, 80 and 60
>> meters, about 50
>> > ohms for 40 and higher for the upper frequencies. I
>> don't have one
>> > because I have a 3 element SteppIR with the 30/40
>> dipole trombone at 21
>> > meters. I don't think the 43 foot vertical will
>> play as well, but they do
>> > play well. I have worked several of the Zero-Five
>> offering and they all
>> > play well. I would expect the DXE, Hygain and MFJ to
>> play well also, but
>> > they are newer and I don't know anyone who has
>> one. All still need a good
>> > ground plane and will play much better with conductive
>> soil.
>> >
>> > Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
>> > K5EWJ
>> >
>> >
>> > --- On Sun, 3/15/09, Darwin, Keith
>> <
[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> From: Darwin, Keith
>> <
[hidden email]>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 43' Vertical and the
>> K2 tuner
>> >> To: "James Apple"
>> <
[hidden email]>,
[hidden email]
>> >> Date: Sunday, March 15, 2009, 2:39 PM
>> >> A few years ago, I was really on the 5/8 vertical
>> bandwagon.
>> >> I thought it was the cat's meow. The problem
>> was that
>> >> real world A/B testing did NOT show it to be any
>> better than
>> >> a 1/4 wave vert.
>> >>
>> >> I had a 5/8 wave vert for 15 meters. Ground
>> mounted over
>> >> 16 radials. An ATU at the base took care of the
>> small
>> >> impedance mismatch and RG-213 carried the signal
>> to the rig.
>> >> Hot stuff - or so I thought.
>> >>
>> >> I also had a 1/4 wave ground plane (4 radials) on
>> the roof
>> >> of my single story house. It was fed with RG-58.
>> I spent a
>> >> lot of time with an A/B switch listening to both
>> antennas.
>> >> You'd think the 5/8 with it's mondo
>> low-angle
>> >> radiation pattern would walk all over the 1/4 wave
>> but it
>> >> DID NOT. DX signals as the band was just opening
>> or closing
>> >> were sometimes stronger on the 5/8, other times on
>> the 1/4.
>> >> There was no clear winner.
>> >>
>> >> It was years before I found the answer.
>> >>
>> >> Apparently, that wonderful low angle radiation
>> that we want
>> >> out of the 5/8 wave antenna depends HEAVILY on the
>> ground
>> >> conductivity many, many wavelengths away from the
>> antenna.
>> >> Far out of the reach of any ground radial system,
>> poor soil
>> >> conductivity is sucking the low angle radiation
>> down to near
>> >> zero. Sure, over salt water it is fabulous, but
>> for the
>> >> vast majority, it just doesn't pan out that
>> way.
>> >>
>> >> So, for "normal" soil, it seems the best
>> height
>> >> is something less than 1/2 wave.
>> >>
>> >> I run a 33' vertical with a Hustler 80M
>> resonator on
>> >> top. It resonates on 80 and 40 and does pretty
>> well on
>> >> those two bands. It also delivers the goods on 30
>> meters
>> >> due to the remote tuner. On 20 meters and higher
>> it
>> >> isn't really all that impressive.
>> >>
>> >> - Keith N1AS -
>> >> - K3 711 -
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From:
[hidden email] on behalf
>> of James
>> >> Apple
>> >> Sent: Sun 3/15/2009 9:26 AM
>> >> To:
[hidden email]
>> >> Subject: [Elecraft] 43' Vertical and the K2
>> tuner
>> >>
>> >> After the ice storm of 2009, I'm looking for
>> an new
>> >> antenna. I've
>> >> been considering the 43' verticals by
>> DXE,HyGain and
>> >> MFJ. But I'm not
>> >> sure if my K2 tuner will have the range needed.
>> The DXE
>> >> site has a
>> >> warning about internal tuners. Anyone using a K2
>> and a
>> >> 43' vertical ?
>> >> how's it play ?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks in Advance
>> >>
>> >> - Jim (WB1DOG)
>> >>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> >> Elecraft mailing list
>> >> Home:
>>
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>> >> Help:
http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>> >> Post: mailto:
[hidden email]
>> >>
>> >> This list hosted by:
http://www.qsl.net>> >> Please help support this email list:
>> >>
http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> >> Elecraft mailing list
>> >> Home:
>>
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>> >> Help:
http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>> >> Post: mailto:
[hidden email]
>> >>
>> >> This list hosted by:
http://www.qsl.net>> >> Please help support this email list:
>> >>
http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>> >
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> > Elecraft mailing list
>> > Home:
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>> > Help:
http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>> > Post: mailto:
[hidden email]
>> >
>> > This list hosted by:
http://www.qsl.net>> > Please help support this email list:
>>
http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.15/2003 - Release
>> Date: 03/15/09
>> 14:07:00
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home:
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>> Help:
http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>> Post: mailto:
[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by:
http://www.qsl.net>> Please help support this email list:
>>
http://www.qsl.net/donate.html--------------------------------------------------------------------------------