http://elecraft.85.s1.nabble.com/43-Vertical-and-the-K2-tuner-tp2481408p2487262.html
Roy, try the 40 meter wire fed with an antenna tuner on 30 meters before you get too fancy. I have had very good results on 30 with a 32 foot aluminum vertical.
> From: Julius Fazekas n2wn <
[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 43' Vertical
> To:
[hidden email]
> Date: Monday, March 16, 2009, 8:13 AM
> I'll back off on my comment based on Geoff's EZNEC
> study, you may have issues
> with 30/40 dual elements.
>
> I have used a single 40M element and remote switched in/out
> tuned network
> for matching. This did work well, but it's not as
> simple as a parallel feed.
>
> 73,
> Julius
>
>
> Julius Fazekas n2wn wrote:
> >
> > Hi Roy,
> >
> > There's no reason to cut resonant radials if they
> will be on the ground or
> > buried. You gain nothing and waste time and money. If
> they were raised
> > then you should do what you suggest.
> >
> > The radials should be dense near the base of the
> antenna, that is where
> > the current is highest and the ground lose is most
> profound.
> >
> > You're in an area that typically has better soil
> conditions than some of
> > us have. I suspect you could have a great signal with
> 30 to 36 radials,
> > versus 64 where you might only pick up a half dB.
> >
> > There have been a number of great studies published in
> QEX and NCJ in the
> > past couple of years. Well worth reading before hand.
> >
> > Rudy, N6LF, has posted his studies online at
> >
>
http://www.antennasbyn6lf.com/design_of_radial_ground_systems/> >
> > Well worth reading to save time and effort.
> >
> > You should be able to do what you suggest with the
> ladder line. You may
> > have to trim the 30M element a few times, or better
> yet, tune it with a
> > cap at the base to bring it to resonance.
> > If you're an ARRL member search for: "An
> Efficient Multiband Vertical for
> > 160 through 20 Meters" which uses a similar
> approach.
> >
> > I use stranded 18 AWG for my radials and they work
> well. I know folks
> > using smaller gauge with higher power too. It just
> depends on how many and
> > how much traffic you have near them (from a mechanical
> perspective).
> >
> > Any vertical that is base loaded is the least
> efficient, stay away from
> > those if possible. I've been through this and the
> difference is like night
> > and day.
> >
> > Good luck with the build!
> >
> > 73,
> > Julius
> >
> >
> > Roy Davis wrote:
> >>
> >> I am in the process of building a 40 meter 1/4
> wave vertical. My hopes
> >> for
> >> this antenna is that when the conditions favor
> vertical antennas as
> >> opposed
> >> to a dipole, that it will help me to work in to
> the far East as my dipole
> >> does not. I understand that a dense radial field
> is necessary for good
> >> results and that the far field which I have no
> control is a factor. My
> >> plan
> >> is to use 64 insulated radials as close to
> resonant as possible, buried a
> >> few inches below soil. I thought of using ladder
> line as the radiator,
> >> cutting one side for 40 and the other for 30
> meters supported by a
> >> catenary
> >> line. If that does not prove out, I have aluminum
> tubing which to make a
> >> 1/4 wave for 40. Anyone have any comments pro or
> con for my project? So
> >> far, I have the pipe in the ground, and the
> radials cut ready to attach
> >> to
> >> the DX Engineering radial plate.
> >>
> >> I have K3 #1366 and really like this radio. A lot
> to offer in such a
> >> small
> >> package.
> >>
> >> 73.
> >>
> >> Roy Davis - WK4Y
> >> Richmond VA
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "WILLIS COOKE"
> <
[hidden email]>
> >> To: "James Apple"
> <
[hidden email]>; <
[hidden email]>;
> >> "Darwin,
> >> Keith" <
[hidden email]>
> >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:12 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 43' Vertical and the
> K2 tuner
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Keith, in theory the 5/8 vertical should be 3
> db stronger than the 1/4
> >>> vertical installed in the same position. A
> ground plane on top of a
> >>> house
> >>> could easily be as good or better than a 5/8
> wave ground mounted and
> >>> radiating into the side of the house and some
> trees. 3 db is about 1/2
> >>> S
> >>> unit anyway, so it will not be a large
> difference. You are correct
> >>> about
> >>> the far field conductivity being very
> important in how a vertical
> >>> antenna
> >>> will play, whether it is mounted on top of a
> tower or house or ground
> >>> mounted. The radials are most important to
> bring up the radiation
> >>> efficiency, the far field is most important
> for the take off angle.
> >>>
> >>> The 43 foot vertical will have a higher
> radiation resistance than a
> >>> shorter vertical for all bands, making it
> easier to get the efficiency
> >>> up.
> >>> It will still be lower than 50 ohms for 160,
> 80 and 60 meters, about 50
> >>> ohms for 40 and higher for the upper
> frequencies. I don't have one
> >>> because I have a 3 element SteppIR with the
> 30/40 dipole trombone at 21
> >>> meters. I don't think the 43 foot
> vertical will play as well, but they
> >>> do
> >>> play well. I have worked several of the
> Zero-Five offering and they all
> >>> play well. I would expect the DXE, Hygain and
> MFJ to play well also,
> >>> but
> >>> they are newer and I don't know anyone who
> has one. All still need a
> >>> good
> >>> ground plane and will play much better with
> conductive soil.
> >>>
> >>> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
> >>> K5EWJ
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --- On Sun, 3/15/09, Darwin, Keith
> <
[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> From: Darwin, Keith
> <
[hidden email]>
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 43' Vertical
> and the K2 tuner
> >>>> To: "James Apple"
> <
[hidden email]>,
[hidden email]
> >>>> Date: Sunday, March 15, 2009, 2:39 PM
> >>>> A few years ago, I was really on the 5/8
> vertical bandwagon.
> >>>> I thought it was the cat's meow. The
> problem was that
> >>>> real world A/B testing did NOT show it to
> be any better than
> >>>> a 1/4 wave vert.
> >>>>
> >>>> I had a 5/8 wave vert for 15 meters.
> Ground mounted over
> >>>> 16 radials. An ATU at the base took care
> of the small
> >>>> impedance mismatch and RG-213 carried the
> signal to the rig.
> >>>> Hot stuff - or so I thought.
> >>>>
> >>>> I also had a 1/4 wave ground plane (4
> radials) on the roof
> >>>> of my single story house. It was fed with
> RG-58. I spent a
> >>>> lot of time with an A/B switch listening
> to both antennas.
> >>>> You'd think the 5/8 with it's
> mondo low-angle
> >>>> radiation pattern would walk all over the
> 1/4 wave but it
> >>>> DID NOT. DX signals as the band was just
> opening or closing
> >>>> were sometimes stronger on the 5/8, other
> times on the 1/4.
> >>>> There was no clear winner.
> >>>>
> >>>> It was years before I found the answer.
> >>>>
> >>>> Apparently, that wonderful low angle
> radiation that we want
> >>>> out of the 5/8 wave antenna depends
> HEAVILY on the ground
> >>>> conductivity many, many wavelengths away
> from the antenna.
> >>>> Far out of the reach of any ground radial
> system, poor soil
> >>>> conductivity is sucking the low angle
> radiation down to near
> >>>> zero. Sure, over salt water it is
> fabulous, but for the
> >>>> vast majority, it just doesn't pan out
> that way.
> >>>>
> >>>> So, for "normal" soil, it seems
> the best height
> >>>> is something less than 1/2 wave.
> >>>>
> >>>> I run a 33' vertical with a Hustler
> 80M resonator on
> >>>> top. It resonates on 80 and 40 and does
> pretty well on
> >>>> those two bands. It also delivers the
> goods on 30 meters
> >>>> due to the remote tuner. On 20 meters and
> higher it
> >>>> isn't really all that impressive.
> >>>>
> >>>> - Keith N1AS -
> >>>> - K3 711 -
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From:
[hidden email] on
> behalf of James
> >>>> Apple
> >>>> Sent: Sun 3/15/2009 9:26 AM
> >>>> To:
[hidden email]
> >>>> Subject: [Elecraft] 43' Vertical and
> the K2 tuner
> >>>>
> >>>> After the ice storm of 2009, I'm
> looking for an new
> >>>> antenna. I've
> >>>> been considering the 43' verticals by
> DXE,HyGain and
> >>>> MFJ. But I'm not
> >>>> sure if my K2 tuner will have the range
> needed. The DXE
> >>>> site has a
> >>>> warning about internal tuners. Anyone
> using a K2 and a
> >>>> 43' vertical ?
> >>>> how's it play ?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks in Advance
> >>>>
> >>>> - Jim (WB1DOG)
> >>>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
> -----
> Julius Fazekas
> N2WN
>
> Tennessee Contest Group
>
http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html>
> Tennessee QSO Party
>
http://www.tnqp.org/>
> Elecraft K2/100 #4455
> Elecraft K3/100 #366
> --
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