Posted by
Charles Greene-2 on
Oct 02, 2005; 2:14am
URL: http://elecraft.85.s1.nabble.com/Two-Band-Moxon-wire-beam-tp382311p382321.html
Brett,
Tnx for the comments. Tried the antenna today and successfully
operated simultaneously with both transceivers on the phone
bands. There was some second harmonic noise of the 40 meter
transmitter on 20 when an ICOM 746 Pro was used at 100 watts; none
when a K2 at 10 watts was used. The noise was about S5 and could be
easily tuned out as it It was on certain rather narrow
frequencies. Voltage on 20 meters coming through the filter was 55
uv, 0 to peak, measured with a scope when the ICOM was
transmitting. No noise at all on 40 meters when the 20 meter
transmitter was transmitting. Voltage on the line after the 40 meter
filter was 7 uv, 0 to peak. The antenna seems to have good
gain. Worked a bunch of 6's in the CA QSO contest as well as some
stations in IO and MO on 20. On 40, contacts ranged from E. PA to
Pittsburgh and other states, VA to Ont. with similar distances from
RI. Signal reports were good. Antenna is pointed West. Terrain
flat, farmland, about 50 feet ASL.
See below for other comments.
Chas, W1CG
At 08:07 PM 9/30/2005, VR2BrettGraham wrote:
>W1CG continued:
>
>>To answer your question, I am using stranded, silver plated, teflon
>>insulated #16 wire. It is plenty strong. I have a 3/16" Dacron line
>>between the two poles to take the strain off the wires. This also
>>decreases the vertical bend and completely eliminates the horizontal
>>bend of the two poles.
>
>Presumably you know the dielectric constant of that insulation,
>verified that the wire you have is in the same neighborhood &
>done all your modelling based on that figure?
I have previously assumed that any wire insulated or not, in space,
has the same velocity factor as bare wire. Why wouldn't it? I can
see that a twisted pair, or feed line would be affected by velocity factor.
>If so, then you can see how ground dominates & if not, then
>between both ground & insulation your elements are nowhere
>near where you think they are.
I don't understand what you mean.
>>(To review, the antenna is a 40 meter Moxon wire beam with a 2
>>element 20 wire meter beam inside. There are two supports, 22' long
>>fiberglass poles at each end, spaced 45 '. There are two feed lines.)
>>
>>We put the antenna up today for our annual special event at for the
>>Harvest Faire at the Norman Bird Sanctuary in Middletown, RI for this
>>weekend. Listen for us on 20 and 40. Call is W1SYE, Newport County
>>Radio Club. (See Sept QST, special events).
>>
>>The antenna is about 30' high on one end and about 25' on the other,
>>from a portable mast to a tree. The Fo and Zo is not much different
>>from what it was at 21'. Fo is about 14.00/7.00 MHZ . SWR is 1:1,
>>50 ohms on both bands per MFJ 159B. 2:1 band width is (top
>>frequency) 14.4 MHz and 7.25 MHz resp. I still want to move it up to
>>14.2 and 7.25 MHz. It's a very nice beam; doesn't sag much and it
>>is easy to erect. The weight is about 18# which includes
>>everything supported.
>
>Not many 2-element 40m beams that can be robust & only weigh
>that much - not to mention less wingspan & far better F/R than a
>yagi.
>
>>The feed lines are two lengths of double shielded RG-58 (TRF-58). I
>>am going to try simultaneous operation on 40 and 20 using 20 and 40
>>meter bandpass filters by Array Solutions. The 40M filter has an
>>insertion loss of 70 dB on 14 MHz and the 20M filter has an insertion
>>loss of 35 dB on 7 MHz. I will use my K2/100 with a LDG Z-11 tuner
>>and the club's Ten Tec Jupiter with its LDG tuner. I will try my
>>other K2 with KAT2 in case the Jupiter overloads on receive. I don't
>>know how this will work out. Calculations say it won't work at 100
>>watts as there is not enough attenuation, but I will try it and
>>report results. There must be some power level of the transmitters
>>that will work. It would be handy for field day, but if it doesn't
>>work we will just have to put the second transceiver on 80 meters
>>using another antenna. Or else use separate receiving antennas. The
>>K2 with the KAT2 can do this; I don't know about a K2/100 with a
>>KAT100. Maybe someone can enlighten me.
>
>With two 400 watt rigs into two bands of a tribander simultaneously,
>those filters will work - though without stubs the 2nd harmonic of
>the 40m station will render some number of dozens of kilocycles on
>the higher band useless.
I want to add a stub or stubs. I am thinking of a 1/4 wave 40 meter
shorted stub, on the 40 meter feed line. Where is the best place to
put it? (at transmitter before filter, after filter, or at
antenna). I will try it tomorrow and can easily try it at all three
locations. How about stubs on the 20 meter feed line?
>Be sure to decouple the feeders at
>the feedpoints, too.
>
>Look at how each driver looks as you connect, disconnect or short
>the far end of the feeder to the other driver.
I did that and there is no change from open to 50 ohms to shorted.
>I would imagine that your
>antenna probably has the two bands' drivers electrically closer &
>therefore you will have far greater interaction between the two bands
>than on my tribander. Hairpins seem to work pretty good on that,
>but that means more trimming.
>
>Anyway, I think the key point is the wire & like I said about my
>bare wire Moxon, there's a bit of mucking about in practice to get
>it to work. I would not make another Moxon unless I'm exactly
>duplicating something else (right down to the wire) - otherwise
>both elements need trimming & WA1X's approach (I think it was)
>is probably the best way to go about it.
Remind me what WA1X's approach is again.
>Enjoy!
>
>73, VR2BrettGraham
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to:
[hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help:
http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htmElecraft web page:
http://www.elecraft.com