http://elecraft.85.s1.nabble.com/K3-factory-upgrade-to-K3-s-tp7642388p7642465.html
> Why not adopt the grammar of the Lao [and Thai] languages which have no
> plural forms. It would be K3S, two K3S, three K3S, one hundred K3S
> ... I've always thought K3S was a misteak, K3.1 would have been better
> ... or not.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
>
> On 6/27/2018 3:00 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>> Would not K3S' be the plural of K3S?
>>
>> Bob, K4TAX
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 27, 2018, at 4:44 PM, Ian White <
[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>>> A big reduction in receiver noise floor and a huge improvement in
>>> both
>>>> transmit and receive phase noise.
>>> That is far too simplistic. Anyone's personal definition of "the
>>> better synthesizer" will depend on what range of frequency offsets
>>> is more important for their particular type of operating.
>>>
>>> For HF CW in particular, phase noise at small frequency offsets is
>>> of paramount importance and I wouldn't argue with Don's report of "a
>>> huge improvement in both transmit and receive phase noise" - but
>>> *only* in that specific context. There are also several other
>>> advantages that are relevant to high-performance HF CW that could
>>> also justify upgrading to the KSYN3A.
>>>
>>> At close frequency offsets from the carrier, the KSYN3A does indeed
>>> offer a large reduction in phase noise compared with the KSYN3
>>> (which itself was already good). But at wider frequency offsets,
>>> that situation reverses. According to the ARRL review [1], at all
>>> offsets beyond about 6kHz, the older KSYN3 continues to have a lower
>>> noise floor than the newer KSYN3A "upgrade".
>>>
>>> Performance at wider frequency offsets, 10-100kHz and beyond, is of
>>> much greater importance in VHF-UHF contesting. This due to a
>>> combination of factors. The strongest signals at VHF-UHF are often
>>> much stronger than on HF, due to the use of high-gain beam antennas;
>>> and also the weakest signals are *always* much, much weaker due to
>>> the lower levels of natural background noise. These two features
>>> stretch the requirement for dynamic range on VHF-UHF far beyond
>>> those for which most HF transceivers are designed.
>>>
>>> Anyone transmitting wideband phase noise has a much greater risk of
>>> raising the noise floor of many other stations across the whole
>>> contesting segment of the VHF or UHF band. Running the numbers
>>> reveals that anyone aiming to be a Big Gun in VHF contests has a
>>> responsibility to keep their wideband transmitted noise floor below
>>> about -130dBc/Hz at frequency offsets of 50kHz and more [2]. This
>>> can be a major engineering challenge, and the performance of the
>>> transceiver is almost always the most important building block.
>>>
>>> The KSYN3A just about meets the -130dBc/Hz noise floor target at
>>> frequency offsets of 10kHz or more... but according to the ARRL
>>> review [1] the older KSYN3 achieves it much more comfortably, with
>>> 10-15dB to spare.
>>>
>>> I have both a K3S and a very early-model K3. The K3S (with the
>>> KSYN3A, of course) is used for HF contesting where smaller frequency
>>> offsets are important. Meanwhile the old K3 is now used as a
>>> transverter driver for 144MHz and above - and for that particular
>>> purpose there are very good reasons *not* to replace the original
>>> KSYN3.
>>>
>>> 73 from Ian GM3SEK
>>>
>>>
>>> [1]
>>>
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/ProductReviewsForDeb/2015/pr112015.pd>>> f
>>>
>>> [2]
>>>
https://thersgb.org/members/publications/video_archive.php?id=5703>>> Sorry, this talk is accessible only to RSGB members, but in a few
>>> words...
>>>
>>> G8DOH runs the numbers to demonstrate that the -130dBc/Hz target
>>> for transmitted phase noise is necessary to avoid raising the noise
>>> floor of other stations many kilometres away, and also many tens to
>>> hundreds of kHz away across the band, whenever their high-gain beams
>>> happen to be pointed at each other.
>>>
>>> That calculation assumes the UK transmitter power limit of 400W PEP
>>> output. For the US power limit of 1500W output, keeping all other
>>> assumptions the same, the target for transmitted noise floor would
>>> need to be better than -135dBc/Hz. The older KSYN3 can still meet
>>> that more stringent target but the KSYN3A probably cannot.
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From:
[hidden email] [mailto:elecraft-
>>>>
[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
>>>> Sent: 27 June 2018 14:23
>>>> To: hawley, charles j jr; Charlie T
>>>> Cc:
[hidden email]
>>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] factory upgrade to K3(s)
>>>>
>>>> Chuck,
>>>>
>>>> A big reduction in receiver noise floor and a huge improvement in
>>> both
>>>> transmit and receive phase noise. It is like getting a new
>>> transceiver.
>>>> If you are strictly a casual operator, those qualities may not be
>>>> important to you, but if you are a DX'er or a contester, or
>>> otherwise
>>>> operate in crowded band condition, those things should be important
>>>> to you.
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>> Don W3FPR
>>>>
>>>>> On 6/27/2018 9:03 AM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:
>>>>> I decided to bypass the replacement of the synthesizers. Could
>>> you
>>>> describe the "huge" difference?
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