Elecraft

15% discount KE7X book

Classic

List

Threaded

39 messages Options

Robie Elms-2

Re: Art of Electronics

Thanks for all the feedback. I’ll look at the pdf 2nd version first!

Robie

> On Apr 8, 2018, at 11:13, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>
> The current Third Edition is available in used but like new condition for $56.50 with free shipping at:
>
>
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0521809266/ref=tmm_hrd_used_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=&sr=
>
>
> The Second Edition is available for free as a pdf at:
>
>
> https://ia801605.us.archive.org/14/items/TheArtOfElectronics-2ndEdition/the-art-of-electronics.pdf
>
>
> 73
> Frank
> W3LPL
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Mike Markowski" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Robie Elms" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2018 3:42:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
>
> Robie,
>
> I don't have all editions to compare, but think newest is usually best.
> Maybe others know better? The book is an intro, though very detailed!,
> and doesn't cover much in the way of RF to my recollection. It would be
> a foundation that makes RF design easy to follow, though.
>
> Others might have better recommendations for ham-specific books. But if
> you leaf through something like ARRL's "Introduction to Radio Frequency
> Design," you'll probably get more from it after a book like Art of Elec.
>
> 73,
> Mike ab3ap
>
>> On 04/08/2018 11:28 AM, Robie Elms wrote:
>> Which edition is the most useful for hams?
>>
>> Robie AJ4F
>>
>>> On Apr 8, 2018, at 10:14, Mike Markowski <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Chuck and all,
>>>
>>> It really is a great book, the best I've found on the topic for my
>>> style of learning. I really like math but also need concrete
>>> examples. I like their approach of "here's how we might approach
>>> this," leading to shortcomings, to how to improve, etc. Very
>>> methodical rather than jumping straight into the best solution
>>> without knowing where the model came from.
>>>
>>> In general, I find electronics learning - or really, learning
>>> anything - to be iterative. I'd take the math class, then the EE
>>> and understand some. As more math or EE clicked I'd understand the
>>> other a little better. And so on. At long last, I'm ready to
>>> compete with those kids who skated through university
>>> effortlessly...as retirement is only a decade away! Better late
>>> than never. :-)
>>>
>>> 73, Mike ab3ap
>>>
>>>> On 04/07/2018 07:17 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: That’s a
>>>> great book, “The Art of Electronics”. Horowitz and Hill, Harvard
>>>> and Rowland institute for Science. Interesting about the math. I
>>>> learned the math, though, in EE courses and found that to be a
>>>> plus. Math with an application. Seemed like I was always taking
>>>> the math course after I learned the math the semester before in
>>>> an EE course. Anyway, I bought the book when I was already on the
>>>> job and it was a great source of ideas and understanding. Chuck
>>>> KE9UW
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

donovanf

Re: Art of Electronics

Hi Robie,

The free Second Edition pdf is quite dated (1980), but work every penny of the price!

73
Frank
W3LPL

----- Original Message -----

From: "Robie Elms" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2018 4:46:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics

Thanks for all the feedback. I’ll look at the pdf 2nd version first!

Robie

Robie Elms-2

Re: Art of Electronics

Frank,

I’m a bit dated as well, so likely a good fit!

Robie

> On Apr 8, 2018, at 12:42, [hidden email] wrote:
>
> Hi Robie,
>
> The free Second Edition pdf is quite dated (1980), but work every penny of the price!
>
> 73
> Frank
> W3LPL
>
> From: "Robie Elms" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2018 4:46:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
>
> Thanks for all the feedback. I’ll look at the pdf 2nd version first!
>
> Robie
>
> > On Apr 8, 2018, at 11:13, [hidden email] wrote:
> >
> >
> > The current Third Edition is available in used but like new condition for $56.50 with free shipping at:
> >
> >
> > https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0521809266/ref=tmm_hrd_used_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=&sr=
> >
> >
> > The Second Edition is available for free as a pdf at:
> >
> >
> > https://ia801605.us.archive.org/14/items/TheArtOfElectronics-2ndEdition/the-art-of-electronics.pdf
> >
> >
> > 73
> > Frank
> > W3LPL
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: "Mike Markowski" <[hidden email]>
> > To: "Robie Elms" <[hidden email]>
> > Cc: [hidden email]
> > Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2018 3:42:39 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
> >
> > Robie,
> >
> > I don't have all editions to compare, but think newest is usually best.
> > Maybe others know better? The book is an intro, though very detailed!,
> > and doesn't cover much in the way of RF to my recollection. It would be
> > a foundation that makes RF design easy to follow, though.
> >
> > Others might have better recommendations for ham-specific books. But if
> > you leaf through something like ARRL's "Introduction to Radio Frequency
> > Design," you'll probably get more from it after a book like Art of Elec.
> >
> > 73,
> > Mike ab3ap
> >
> >> On 04/08/2018 11:28 AM, Robie Elms wrote:
> >> Which edition is the most useful for hams?
> >>
> >> Robie AJ4F
> >>
> >>> On Apr 8, 2018, at 10:14, Mike Markowski <[hidden email]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Chuck and all,
> >>>
> >>> It really is a great book, the best I've found on the topic for my
> >>> style of learning. I really like math but also need concrete
> >>> examples. I like their approach of "here's how we might approach
> >>> this," leading to shortcomings, to how to improve, etc. Very
> >>> methodical rather than jumping straight into the best solution
> >>> without knowing where the model came from.
> >>>
> >>> In general, I find electronics learning - or really, learning
> >>> anything - to be iterative. I'd take the math class, then the EE
> >>> and understand some. As more math or EE clicked I'd understand the
> >>> other a little better. And so on. At long last, I'm ready to
> >>> compete with those kids who skated through university
> >>> effortlessly...as retirement is only a decade away! Better late
> >>> than never. :-)
> >>>
> >>> 73, Mike ab3ap
> >>>
> >>>> On 04/07/2018 07:17 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: That’s a
> >>>> great book, “The Art of Electronics”. Horowitz and Hill, Harvard
> >>>> and Rowland institute for Science. Interesting about the math. I
> >>>> learned the math, though, in EE courses and found that to be a
> >>>> plus. Math with an application. Seemed like I was always taking
> >>>> the math course after I learned the math the semester before in
> >>>> an EE course. Anyway, I bought the book when I was already on the
> >>>> job and it was a great source of ideas and understanding. Chuck
> >>>> KE9UW
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Tim Herrick

Re: Art of Electronics

In reply to this post by donovanf

They are working on the next edition, the X edition, which is referenced throughout the 3rd edition. It is supposed to be released this year but no date yet. I gather it is supposed to be much more in depth.

73
Tim, KQ8M
[hidden email]

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2018 13:43
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics

Hi Robie,

The free Second Edition pdf is quite dated (1980), but work every penny of the price!

73
Frank
W3LPL

----- Original Message -----

From: "Robie Elms" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2018 4:46:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics

Thanks for all the feedback. I’ll look at the pdf 2nd version first!

Robie

> On Apr 8, 2018, at 11:13, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>
> The current Third Edition is available in used but like new condition for $56.50 with free shipping at:
>
>
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0521809266/ref=tmm_hrd_used_ol
> p_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=&sr=
>
>
> The Second Edition is available for free as a pdf at:
>
>
> https://ia801605.us.archive.org/14/items/TheArtOfElectronics-2ndEditio
> n/the-art-of-electronics.pdf
>
>
> 73
> Frank
> W3LPL
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Mike Markowski" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Robie Elms" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2018 3:42:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
>
> Robie,
>
> I don't have all editions to compare, but think newest is usually best.
> Maybe others know better? The book is an intro, though very detailed!,
> and doesn't cover much in the way of RF to my recollection. It would
> be a foundation that makes RF design easy to follow, though.
>
> Others might have better recommendations for ham-specific books. But
> if you leaf through something like ARRL's "Introduction to Radio
> Frequency Design," you'll probably get more from it after a book like Art of Elec.
>
> 73,
> Mike ab3ap
>
>> On 04/08/2018 11:28 AM, Robie Elms wrote:
>> Which edition is the most useful for hams?
>>
>> Robie AJ4F
>>
>>> On Apr 8, 2018, at 10:14, Mike Markowski <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Chuck and all,
>>>
>>> It really is a great book, the best I've found on the topic for my
>>> style of learning. I really like math but also need concrete
>>> examples. I like their approach of "here's how we might approach
>>> this," leading to shortcomings, to how to improve, etc. Very
>>> methodical rather than jumping straight into the best solution
>>> without knowing where the model came from.
>>>
>>> In general, I find electronics learning - or really, learning
>>> anything - to be iterative. I'd take the math class, then the EE and
>>> understand some. As more math or EE clicked I'd understand the other
>>> a little better. And so on. At long last, I'm ready to compete with
>>> those kids who skated through university effortlessly...as
>>> retirement is only a decade away! Better late than never. :-)
>>>
>>> 73, Mike ab3ap
>>>
>>>> On 04/07/2018 07:17 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: That’s a great
>>>> book, “The Art of Electronics”. Horowitz and Hill, Harvard and
>>>> Rowland institute for Science. Interesting about the math. I
>>>> learned the math, though, in EE courses and found that to be a
>>>> plus. Math with an application. Seemed like I was always taking the
>>>> math course after I learned the math the semester before in an EE
>>>> course. Anyway, I bought the book when I was already on the job and
>>>> it was a great source of ideas and understanding. Chuck KE9UW
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Kevin Cozens-2

Re: Art of Electronics

In reply to this post by donovanf

On 2018-04-08 01:42 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> The free Second Edition pdf is quite dated (1980), but work every penny of the price!

Thanks for the information. I have the 3rd edition sitting on a bookshelf.
I'll add the second edition to my eReader.

For those reading AoF and want additional hands-on work to complement it the
companion book is "Learning the Art of Electronics: A Hands-On Lab Course"
and is available on Amazon at:
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/0521177235/

--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/ | "Nerds make the shiny things that
https://www.patreon.html/KevinCozens | distract the mouth-breathers, and
| that's why we're powerful"
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |
#include <disclaimer/favourite> | --Chris Hardwick
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Don Sanders

Re: Art of Electronics

In reply to this post by Mike Markowski-2

Thanks for the like for the free 2nd edition.

I know many regard math as difficult, but a book I used when teaching at
Valparaiso Tech Institute was "Basic Math for Electronics by Nelson M.
Cooke.

It taught math by using many electronics formulas and therefore was
invaluable to help students learn electronics and basic math.
I believe the latest is the 7th edition. But I used the first edition.

I will have to look for a free download.

Dr. Don W4BWS

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 11:14 AM, Mike Markowski <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Chuck and all,
>
> It really is a great book, the best I've found on the topic for my style
> of learning. I really like math but also need concrete examples. I like
> their approach of "here's how we might approach this," leading to
> shortcomings, to how to improve, etc. Very methodical rather than jumping
> straight into the best solution without knowing where the model came from.
>
> In general, I find electronics learning - or really, learning anything -
> to be iterative. I'd take the math class, then the EE and understand
> some. As more math or EE clicked I'd understand the other a little
> better. And so on. At long last, I'm ready to compete with those kids who
> skated through university effortlessly...as retirement is only a decade
> away! Better late than never. :-)
>
> 73,
> Mike ab3ap
>
> On 04/07/2018 07:17 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:
>
>> That’s a great book, “The Art of Electronics”. Horowitz and Hill, Harvard
>> and Rowland institute for Science. Interesting about the math. I learned
>> the math, though, in EE courses and found that to be a plus. Math with an
>> application.
>> Seemed like I was always taking the math course after I learned the math
>> the semester before in an EE course.
>> Anyway, I bought the book when I was already on the job and it was a
>> great source of ideas and understanding.
>> Chuck
>> KE9UW
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone, cjack
>>
>> On Apr 7, 2018, at 3:35 PM, Mike Markowski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Many thanks to everyone who responded! I have a clearer understanding
>>> now.
>>>
>>> It reminds me of my own EE student days. I found learning electronics
>>> challenging because our texts started with math and the useful properties
>>> of this or that circuit kind of fell out as a side effect or mini-miracle.
>>> Then I discovered the text 'The Art of Electronics' which approached it
>>> from a different angle and things clicked much more naturally for me.
>>>
>>> I like Skip K6DGW's description of the two approaches to Elecraft as
>>> orthogonal. So I think I get it. Thanks, all!
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Mike ab3ap
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Kevin Cozens-2

Re: Art of Electronics

In reply to this post by donovanf

On 2018-04-08 3:42 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> It would be a foundation that makes RF design easy to follow, though.

Easier? Perhaps. Depends in part on the frequencies involved. As the
frequency goes up it RF design becomes part science and part art, or some
might say black magic.

--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/ | "Nerds make the shiny things that
https://www.patreon.html/KevinCozens | distract the mouth-breathers, and
| that's why we're powerful"
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |
#include <disclaimer/favourite> | --Chris Hardwick
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Jim Brown-10

Re: Art of Electronics

On 4/8/2018 11:45 AM, Kevin Cozens wrote:
> As the frequency goes up it RF design becomes part science and part
> art, or some might say black magic.

A better way of thinking about it is that as frequency goes up, stray
(parasitic) elements of components become increasingly significant (that
is, L and C in a resistor, R and L in a capacitor, R and C in an
inductor), wiring (including traces on a single layer circuit board)
first become inductors, then antennas, and their capacitance to other
circuit elements and their inductive coupling to other wiring becomes
significant, and traces above a "ground layer" on a circuit board become
transmission lines. And the TIME it takes for signals to move along
wires and lines becomes significant. The dielectric properties of
circuit board become significant. The spacing between circuit traces
becomes significant.

In other words, all of the things that can often be ignored at lower
frequencies must be considered at higher frequencies. That's not "art,"
it's not "black magic," its pure science.

73, Jim K9YC

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

David Gilbert

Re: Art of Electronics

In reply to this post by Kevin Cozens-2

I don't know why people say stuff like that. Just because some
variables become more important at RF than they did at lower frequencies
doesn't turn design into art or magic.

Dave AB7E

On 4/8/2018 11:45 AM, Kevin Cozens wrote:
> On 2018-04-08 3:42 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> It would be a foundation that makes RF design easy to follow, though.
>
> Easier? Perhaps. Depends in part on the frequencies involved. As the
> frequency goes up it RF design becomes part science and part art, or
> some might say black magic.
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

EricJ

Re: Art of Electronics

It doesn't seem to be well-known but many pdf documents are searchable.
That's the case with this one. I have a bound and severely dog-earred
Second Edition, but this pdf is going to make it even more useful.
Ctrl-F brings up the search box like it always does. Enter text (not
text in illustrations) and it finds it almost instantly.

Eric KE6US
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Edward R Cole

Re: Art of Electronics

In reply to this post by Mike Markowski-2

hmmm, well I'm hearing a lot of opinion expressed.

First off, how many of you have acctually built ckts
for10-GHz+? (show of hands) And of you who did, how many worked the
first time as designed without "tinkering"? Snow-flaking is a well
known method of "tweaking" the circuit to get it to work
optimally. Snow-flaking is an art!

If you can make one that works, probably involves a little magic; if
you can manufacture hundreds that work reliably, that is a master at
science. Of course you might argue the latter is "true magic".

Cave man would say all this is magic. If you are an alien who can
travel between stars, our stuff is archaic. Probably hams span that
range? Got my hard hat and PPE on, fire away!

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
[hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Pete Michaelis - N8TR

Re: Art of Electronics

In reply to this post by donovanf

I have both the first and second editions of the book. The first
came out in 1980; the second
in 1989. The first edition had 716 pages; the second 1125.

73,Pete - N8TR

At 01:42 PM 4/8/2018, [hidden email] wrote:
>Hi Robie, The free Second Edition pdf is quite dated (1980), but
>work every penny of the price! 73 Frank W3LPL -----
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Bill Frantz

Re: Art of Electronics

In reply to this post by EricJ

Searching the PDF circuit diagrams for the Elecraft radios is
how you follow a signal from page to page. That, is an important
survival technique.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 4/8/18 at 1:52 PM, [hidden email] (EricJ) wrote:

>It doesn't seem to be well-known but many pdf documents are
>searchable. That's the case with this one. I have a bound and
>severely dog-earred Second Edition, but this pdf is going to
>make it even more useful. Ctrl-F brings up the search box like
>it always does. Enter text (not text in illustrations) and it
>finds it almost instantly.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | Re IOT: "How many access control systems
does it take
www.pwpconsult.com | to change a light bulb?" - Dean Tribble

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Bill Frantz

Re: Art of Electronics

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke

73 Bill AE6JV

On 4/8/18 at 12:23 PM, [hidden email] (Jim Brown) wrote:

> In other words, all of the things that can often be ignored at lower frequencies must be considered
> at higher frequencies. That's not "art," it's not "black magic," its pure science.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | "I wish there was a knob on the TV to turn up the
408-356-8506 | intelligence. There's a knob called "brightness", but
www.pwpconsult.com | it doesn't work. -- Gallagher

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

David Olean

Re: Art of Electronics

In reply to this post by Edward R Cole

Hey, Ed,

Piece of cake! (10 Ghz) But I worked up to it slowly. Building gear for
the lower microwave bands sure helped with wrapping my head around the
problems encountered there. I loved pipe cap filters!! Now I am having
a real hard time getting my 160 meter receive antennas to work!! I went
from snow flaking to tightening large nuts and bolts!

Dave K1WHS

On 4/8/2018 10:45 PM, Edward R Cole wrote:

> hmmm, well I'm hearing a lot of opinion expressed.
>
> First off, how many of you have acctually built ckts for10-GHz+? (show
> of hands) And of you who did, how many worked the first time as
> designed without "tinkering"? Snow-flaking is a well known method of
> "tweaking" the circuit to get it to work optimally. Snow-flaking is
> an art!
>
> If you can make one that works, probably involves a little magic; if
> you can manufacture hundreds that work reliably, that is a master at
> science. Of course you might argue the latter is "true magic".
>
> Cave man would say all this is magic. If you are an alien who can
> travel between stars, our stuff is archaic. Probably hams span that
> range? Got my hard hat and PPE on, fire away!
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> http://www.kl7uw.com
> Dubus-NA Business mail:
> [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Wes Stewart-2

Re: Art of Electronics

In reply to this post by Edward R Cole

Raised hand.

Wes N7WS

On 4/8/2018 3:45 PM, Edward R Cole wrote:

> hmmm, well I'm hearing a lot of opinion expressed.
>
> First off, how many of you have acctually built ckts for10-GHz+? (show of
> hands) And of you who did, how many worked the first time as designed without
> "tinkering"? Snow-flaking is a well known method of "tweaking" the circuit to
> get it to work optimally. Snow-flaking is an art!
>
> If you can make one that works, probably involves a little magic; if you can
> manufacture hundreds that work reliably, that is a master at science. Of
> course you might argue the latter is "true magic".
>
> Cave man would say all this is magic. If you are an alien who can travel
> between stars, our stuff is archaic. Probably hams span that range? Got my
> hard hat and PPE on, fire away!
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> http://www.kl7uw.com
> Dubus-NA Business mail:
> [hidden email]

K8TE

Re: Art of Electronics

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

Phil,

Yes, I'm catching up on e-mail.

Your description of physics cirriculum brought me back to my high school
physics which was called "PSSC" based on the work done at MIT and described
in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Science_Study_Committee. I had
been licensed a couple of years by then (1962) and found PSSC physics fit me
to a tee!

My bachelor studies in vocational education decades later showed how the
approached used by the PSSC was smart and useful, something being
"re-discovered" today by educators who often are behind their peers. The
Wikipedia article above includes a mention of Heathkit's products that were
modified to fit the PSSC model.

In between high school and my vocational education experience I taught
electronics for Eastern New Mexico University while stationed at Canon AFB.
I used the text by Robert Schraeder "Electronic Communication" which one can
find used today. I lent mine to my Air Force boss and bought another
recently. Schraeder, like so few, has the ability to write clearly about
difficult concepts that makes them seem simple. That text made my teaching
much easier! "The Art of Electronics" will certainly fit into my reading
schedule, in which I am also way behind.

73, Bill, K8TE

"My undergraduate degree is Physics and back in the 1960s, my physics
curriculum included a similar course study. This was all about using lab
equipment but also making the necessary little electronic gadgets that were
important to work in a physics research laboratory. When I took my course,
the book "The Art of Electronics" did not exist and we never had a text book
in our course."

--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Dave Fugleberg

Re: Art of Electronics

Schraeder was the text for my Communications class in tech school in the
early 80s.
One requirement to pass the course was to earn the FCC General Class
Radiotelephone license. I believe nearly everyone in the class did. It also
made it pretty easy to upgrade my ham ticket from Novice to Advanced during
that time.
I still have my copy and still refer to it from time to time. The
fundamentals never change.
On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 9:16 AM K8TE <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Phil,
>
> Yes, I'm catching up on e-mail.
>
> Your description of physics cirriculum brought me back to my high school
> physics which was called "PSSC" based on the work done at MIT and described
> in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Science_Study_Committee. I
> had
> been licensed a couple of years by then (1962) and found PSSC physics fit
> me
> to a tee!
>
> My bachelor studies in vocational education decades later showed how the
> approached used by the PSSC was smart and useful, something being
> "re-discovered" today by educators who often are behind their peers. The
> Wikipedia article above includes a mention of Heathkit's products that were
> modified to fit the PSSC model.
>
> In between high school and my vocational education experience I taught
> electronics for Eastern New Mexico University while stationed at Canon
> AFB.
> I used the text by Robert Schraeder "Electronic Communication" which one
> can
> find used today. I lent mine to my Air Force boss and bought another
> recently. Schraeder, like so few, has the ability to write clearly about
> difficult concepts that makes them seem simple. That text made my teaching
> much easier! "The Art of Electronics" will certainly fit into my reading
> schedule, in which I am also way behind.
>
> 73, Bill, K8TE
>
> "My undergraduate degree is Physics and back in the 1960s, my physics
> curriculum included a similar course study. This was all about using lab
> equipment but also making the necessary little electronic gadgets that were
> important to work in a physics research laboratory. When I took my course,
> the book "The Art of Electronics" did not exist and we never had a text
> book
> in our course."
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Josh Fiden

Re: Art of Electronics

You mean Bob Shrader W6BNB?

73
Josh W6XU

Sent from my mobile device

> On May 26, 2018, at 8:23 AM, Dave Fugleberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Schraeder was the text for my Communications class in tech school in the
> early 80s.
> One requirement to pass the course was to earn the FCC General Class
> Radiotelephone license. I believe nearly everyone in the class did. It also
> made it pretty easy to upgrade my ham ticket from Novice to Advanced during
> that time.
> I still have my copy and still refer to it from time to time. The
> fundamentals never change.
>> On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 9:16 AM K8TE <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Phil,
>>
>> Yes, I'm catching up on e-mail.
>>
>> Your description of physics cirriculum brought me back to my high school
>> physics which was called "PSSC" based on the work done at MIT and described
>> in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Science_Study_Committee. I
>> had
>> been licensed a couple of years by then (1962) and found PSSC physics fit
>> me
>> to a tee!
>>
>> My bachelor studies in vocational education decades later showed how the
>> approached used by the PSSC was smart and useful, something being
>> "re-discovered" today by educators who often are behind their peers. The
>> Wikipedia article above includes a mention of Heathkit's products that were
>> modified to fit the PSSC model.
>>
>> In between high school and my vocational education experience I taught
>> electronics for Eastern New Mexico University while stationed at Canon
>> AFB.
>> I used the text by Robert Schraeder "Electronic Communication" which one
>> can
>> find used today. I lent mine to my Air Force boss and bought another
>> recently. Schraeder, like so few, has the ability to write clearly about
>> difficult concepts that makes them seem simple. That text made my teaching
>> much easier! "The Art of Electronics" will certainly fit into my reading
>> schedule, in which I am also way behind.
>>
>> 73, Bill, K8TE
>>
>> "My undergraduate degree is Physics and back in the 1960s, my physics
>> curriculum included a similar course study. This was all about using lab
>> equipment but also making the necessary little electronic gadgets that were
>> important to work in a physics research laboratory. When I took my course,
>> the book "The Art of Electronics" did not exist and we never had a text
>> book
>> in our course."
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]