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472KHz transverter for KX3

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Dominic Baines-2

472KHz transverter for KX3

I have started to design and build one for those interested in the band.

http://m1kta-qrp.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/472khz-kx3-transverter.html

72

Dom
M1KTA
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M0AFJ

Re: 472KHz transverter for KX3

Dominic please keep us updated, interesting.

Best regards, Tim Hague
Skype m0afj.Tim
Sent on my iPad

On 24 Jan 2013, at 09:52, Dominic Baines <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have started to design and build one for those interested in the band.
>
> http://m1kta-qrp.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/472khz-kx3-transverter.html
>
> 72
>
> Dom
> M1KTA
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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Dominic Baines-2

Re: 472KHz transverter for KX3

Tim,

I see two main options...

1. Transverter is 'dumb' and is just there attached to the KX3 and no
controls (other than basic T/R) come from KX3 to Transverter and you
live with a display that is 'offset' by the IF.

or

2. Transverter works with the KX3 menus for Transverters (see the XV
etal series) and some of these might be used.

From a use perspective I suspect it might be 'nice' to have the display
read 473KHz etc or whatever frequency you are on and not 28.473 so the
offset looks like a minimum and might the selection of the transverter
band etc.

I note that the KX3 does not have a low power output so either there
would have to be a manual check that the output power (into the
transverter) is only 0.1W (default) still to define the best level or
there needs to be an intelligent(?) sense that advises that the power is
too high and does not damage it. The menu option XVn PWR sets this.

72

Dom
M1KTA

On 24/01/13 10:10, Tim Hague wrote:

> Dominic please keep us updated, interesting.
>
> Best regards, Tim Hague
> Skype m0afj.Tim
> Sent on my iPad
>
>
> On 24 Jan 2013, at 09:52, Dominic Baines <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I have started to design and build one for those interested in the band.
>>
>> http://m1kta-qrp.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/472khz-kx3-transverter.html
>>
>> 72
>>
>> Dom
>> M1KTA
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

M0AFJ

Re: 472KHz transverter for KX3

Hi Dom, I suppose being an 'old boy' I've been used to transverters that are dumb, I just learnt to ignore the MHz read outs and substituted the correct figures in my head!. I have the K3 as well as the KX3 and have just fitted the transverter output option which gives me 1mW to drive a box.

Best regards, Tim Hague
Skype m0afj.Tim
Sent on my iPad

On 24 Jan 2013, at 11:41, Dominic Baines <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Tim,
>
> I see two main options...
>
> 1. Transverter is 'dumb' and is just there attached to the KX3 and no controls (other than basic T/R) come from KX3 to Transverter and you live with a display that is 'offset' by the IF.
>
> or
>
> 2. Transverter works with the KX3 menus for Transverters (see the XV etal series) and some of these might be used.
>
> From a use perspective I suspect it might be 'nice' to have the display read 473KHz etc or whatever frequency you are on and not 28.473 so the offset looks like a minimum and might the selection of the transverter band etc.
>
> I note that the KX3 does not have a low power output so either there would have to be a manual check that the output power (into the transverter) is only 0.1W (default) still to define the best level or there needs to be an intelligent(?) sense that advises that the power is too high and does not damage it. The menu option XVn PWR sets this.
>
> 72
>
> Dom
> M1KTA
>
>
> On 24/01/13 10:10, Tim Hague wrote:
>> Dominic please keep us updated, interesting.
>>
>> Best regards, Tim Hague
>> Skype m0afj.Tim
>> Sent on my iPad
>>
>>
>> On 24 Jan 2013, at 09:52, Dominic Baines <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> I have started to design and build one for those interested in the band.
>>>
>>> http://m1kta-qrp.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/472khz-kx3-transverter.html
>>>
>>> 72
>>>
>>> Dom
>>> M1KTA
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: 472KHz transverter for KX3

The transverters may be "dumb", but the KX3 and the K3 both have the
"smarts" to display the output frequency - anywhere between 0 and 24999
MHz. Just use the XVn RF menu to set the low end of the transverter
output band.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/24/2013 8:30 AM, Tim Hague wrote:
> Hi Dom, I suppose being an 'old boy' I've been used to transverters that are dumb, I just learnt to ignore the MHz read outs and substituted the correct figures in my head!. I have the K3 as well as the KX3 and have just fitted the transverter output option which gives me 1mW to drive a box.
>
>

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Dominic Baines-2

Re: 472KHz transverter for KX3

Thanks Don,

Yes agreed.... I just advised was looking at two options.

I had already been sent an email asking was this limited to KX3 only?
The answer would be no hence the "dumb" option.

UK has 472KHz-479KHz available to full licencees with a Notice of
variation to the licence.

The option equates to either operate with the KX3 in the 'normal band'
with no frequency feedback so you will need to know what the transverter
LO is set to and you need to be sure you set the output power low or I
believe you can set it to a transverter band and then a couple of
options become available, being the IF and the frequency display (as you
say). The RF out is also dropped to 0.1W by default. A quick test seemed
to show the RF out was c0.1W no matter what the normal power level was
set to but was a really quick test before had to run as got normal day job.

72

Dom
M1KTA

On 24/01/13 13:41, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> The transverters may be "dumb", but the KX3 and the K3 both have the
> "smarts" to display the output frequency - anywhere between 0 and
> 24999 MHz. Just use the XVn RF menu to set the low end of the
> transverter output band.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 1/24/2013 8:30 AM, Tim Hague wrote:
>> Hi Dom, I suppose being an 'old boy' I've been used to transverters
>> that are dumb, I just learnt to ignore the MHz read outs and
>> substituted the correct figures in my head!. I have the K3 as well as
>> the KX3 and have just fitted the transverter output option which
>> gives me 1mW to drive a box.
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: 472KHz transverter for KX3

Dom,

Note that there is also a XVn OFS menu entry that will allow you to
enter an offset to compensate for variations in the transverter LO and
give you the correct frequency reading in the lower order digits too.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/24/2013 9:08 AM, Dominic Baines wrote:

> Thanks Don,
>
> Yes agreed.... I just advised was looking at two options.
>
> I had already been sent an email asking was this limited to KX3 only?
> The answer would be no hence the "dumb" option.
>
> UK has 472KHz-479KHz available to full licencees with a Notice of
> variation to the licence.
>
> The option equates to either operate with the KX3 in the 'normal band'
> with no frequency feedback so you will need to know what the
> transverter LO is set to and you need to be sure you set the output
> power low or I believe you can set it to a transverter band and then a
> couple of options become available, being the IF and the frequency
> display (as you say). The RF out is also dropped to 0.1W by default. A
> quick test seemed to show the RF out was c0.1W no matter what the
> normal power level was set to but was a really quick test before had
> to run as got normal day job.
>
> 72
>
> Dom
> M1KTA

Dominic Baines-2

Re: 472KHz transverter for KX3

Thanks also noted.

72

Dom
M1KTA

On 24/01/13 15:16, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Dom,
>
> Note that there is also a XVn OFS menu entry that will allow you to
> enter an offset to compensate for variations in the transverter LO and
> give you the correct frequency reading in the lower order digits too.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 1/24/2013 9:08 AM, Dominic Baines wrote:
>> Thanks Don,
>>
>> Yes agreed.... I just advised was looking at two options.
>>
>> I had already been sent an email asking was this limited to KX3 only?
>> The answer would be no hence the "dumb" option.
>>
>> UK has 472KHz-479KHz available to full licencees with a Notice of
>> variation to the licence.
>>
>> The option equates to either operate with the KX3 in the 'normal
>> band' with no frequency feedback so you will need to know what the
>> transverter LO is set to and you need to be sure you set the output
>> power low or I believe you can set it to a transverter band and then
>> a couple of options become available, being the IF and the frequency
>> display (as you say). The RF out is also dropped to 0.1W by default.
>> A quick test seemed to show the RF out was c0.1W no matter what the
>> normal power level was set to but was a really quick test before had
>> to run as got normal day job.
>>
>> 72
>>
>> Dom
>> M1KTA
>
>

Dave-3

Re: 472KHz transverter for KX3

In reply to this post by Dominic Baines-2

It would make the maths even easier if one could set XVn IF to 10MHz (and
XVn RF to 0MHz), one could then use the K3 external 10MHz reference as the
Transverter Local oscillator

Last time I checked Wayne was working on the software to give the KX3 the
same xverter driving capabilities that the K3 already has

Dave

WW2R

Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 08:41:36 -0500
From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 472KHz transverter for KX3
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

The transverters may be "dumb", but the KX3 and the K3 both have the
"smarts" to display the output frequency - anywhere between 0 and 24999
MHz. Just use the XVn RF menu to set the low end of the transverter
output band.

73,
Don W3FPR

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Dominic Baines-2

Re: 472KHz transverter for KX3

Dave (and a couple others commented similarly) This is probably why I
suggested two options 1. dumb so not 'integration' so the dial you will
have to do the math... and 2. then when the software catches up (a few
other things appear to be missing still like SSB DVR) perhaps can have a
display that says 472KHz etc rather than the IF.

Either way should hopefully not change the construction of the
transverter it does mean that I may need to be aware of the IF choices
that KX3 might use.

If a 10MHz or some other frequency for an LO is available great if not,
I am already building an LO for use anyway and I could make it
switchable IF Elecraft do provide it later. I have 472KHz available now
so cannot wait for 18 months for a software update from Elecraft, if it
were open source maybe I could add it?

72

Dom
M1KTA
On 24/01/13 17:42, WW2R Elecraft wrote:

> It would make the maths even easier if one could set XVn IF to 10MHz (and
> XVn RF to 0MHz), one could then use the K3 external 10MHz reference as the
> Transverter Local oscillator
>
> Last time I checked Wayne was working on the software to give the KX3 the
> same xverter driving capabilities that the K3 already has
>
> Dave
>
> WW2R
>
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 08:41:36 -0500
> From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 472KHz transverter for KX3
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> The transverters may be "dumb", but the KX3 and the K3 both have the
> "smarts" to display the output frequency - anywhere between 0 and 24999
> MHz. Just use the XVn RF menu to set the low end of the transverter
> output band.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

grumss

Re: 472KHz transverter for KX3

Gday all,
Ive designed and built a transverter board for the band, It is working very well and is turning out to be popular.

The K3 is a superb radio for driving it and is what i'm using myself.

IF is typically 28Mhz but can easily be changed.

There has been some delays due to component sourcing and changes but it is very close to being available.
Kit form or fully built.

see my website http://www.vk3xdk.net46.net/1_31_600M-472Khz-479Khz-Transverter.html

or view posts on VKlogger http://www.vklogger.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=11127&start=75

grumss

Re: 472KHz transverter for KX3

Seems there may be a problem for some with the first link.

try going straight to my website http://www.vk3xdk.net46.net/

or doing a google search on my call sign.

73, Graham VK3XDK

grumss

Re: 472KHz transverter for KX3

In reply to this post by grumss

Prices are yet to be confirmed,
the kits should be around AUS$80 and

fully built boards AUS$200
It may seem a little expensive but I hand built them, tune and test which takes a few hours.

(a limited number of fully built ones are available already at this price)

73, Graham VK3XDK

Edward R Cole

Re: 472KHz transverter for KX3

In reply to this post by Dominic Baines-2

Graham,

Congratulations. Looks like a nice design. Are you using a TUH-1
mixer? Looks like the one that is used in DEMI transverters. Also
does not look difficult to put on 10.472 MHz using an external 10-MHz
reference osc. This would be ideal running the K3 in TEST mode.

I don't see LP filters on the output. Might be good to have that so
the 2nd Harmonic does not cause BC RFI on 944-KHz.

If you are going into production, probably not much sense for me to
try, too. The market belongs to he who is first. I would add a 25w
PA for running 1w ERP (typically with short vertical antennas). I
get a calculated 4.15w ERP on my inverted-L by running 100w RF output.

At my station I could drive my 100w transmitter with the SGA5586
stage, or possibly directly with the mixer output. I currently run
on 495-510 KHz using the mw output of the K3 running in TEST.

73, Ed - KL7UW

--------------
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 14:52:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: grumss <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 472KHz transverter for KX3
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Prices are yet to be confirmed,
the kits should be around AUS$80 and

fully built boards AUS$200
It may seem a little expensive but I hand built them, tune and test which
takes a few hours.

(a limited number of fully built ones are available already at this price)

73, Graham VK3XDK

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grumss

Re: 472KHz transverter for KX3

Thanks for the positive comments ED!

As you may have seen, previously I specialize in microwave transverters. This was a "Fun" project to break it up a bit!

I have really enjoyed getting back to the basics and at the moment is my favorite project :)

There is always improvements to be made and plenty of room for other designs, please continue on for the the sake of amateur radio!

The design certainly does have out put filtering it is "L" followed by a "PI" network (lowpass). Harmonics are typically 40 to 50Db down (depending on how greedily it has been adjusted :)

cheers again, Graham VK3XDK

grumss

Re: 472KHz transverter for KX3

Sorry, I forgot to mention that the mixer is an ADE-1

grumss

Re: 472KHz transverter for KX3

Hi again,
A couple of people have commented that the price for the fully built is a little high.

So
I have decided to lower the price to AUS$170

The kits are still a bit off, I suggest the fully built to those that are impatient. (construction documentation is the main delay)

cheers, Graham VK3XDK