Elecraft

4M Question

Classic

List

Threaded

9 messages Options

Ron Bell

4M Question

Hi,

The recent KX3 posts is First heard of a 4M band. Is there any
interest/action/possibility of a 4M band in the US.

73s

Ron

AF1Q

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Kevin Stover

Re: 4M Question

Not while the National Association of Broadcasters and companies the
size of Samsung and LG are sucking air.
Think of all the doodads we hang off of our TV's that need channel 3 or 4.
There are still channel 4 TV stations using that band.
If we got one it would be small, read useless, and a shared basis with
power restrictions, as long as we don't interfere.

With 2m and 6m FM repeaters a virtual wasteland what impetus does the
FCC have to give us an allocation at 70MHz?
Just because region 1 and 3 have it?
None, we don't use what we got.

On 5/19/2014 11:38 AM, Ron wrote:

> Hi,
>
> The recent KX3 posts is First heard of a 4M band. Is there any
> interest/action/possibility of a 4M band in the US.
>
>
>
> 73s
>
> Ron
>
> AF1Q
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>

--
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H
ARRL
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Rick WA6NHC

Re: 4M Question

Another example of how mileage may vary...

Apparently you haven't been to California (lately). One can't get a two
meter frequency to put up a repeater pretty much anywhere (even though
the band may appear to be dead) and six is pretty full too. 420-450 is
disallowed over much of the state (150 miles circumference from
Beale/PavePaws)... Not a wasteland, just ham politics; often downright
ugly.

10M has open repeater slots; 220 is near capacity in some areas.

At least until recently, the CHP has been using 70 MHz for site linking
but that may fade away since they're in the middle of a huge
rebuild/remodel of their spectrum.

And there are still low power TV stations using either digital or analog
back in that range too... Typically minority language, Hallelujah or
Sellavision channels, but the bottom line is: 4M won't happen here.

73,
Rick wa6nhc

On 5/19/2014 3:13 PM, Kevin Stover wrote:
>
> With 2m and 6m FM repeaters a virtual wasteland what impetus does the
> FCC have to give us an allocation at 70MHz?
> Just because region 1 and 3 have it?
> None, we don't use what we got.
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Jim Low man

Re: 4M Question

As an experiment, one cold and rainy weekend (about as close as we get
to winter) last year, I programmed all of the local 2m, 220 and 440
repeaters into a scanner and let it do its job.
Surprisingly, compared with 10 or so years ago, most were dead quiet.

Back then, 220 was a nice alternative to the crowding and overuse of
many of the 2m repeaters.
And 440 is definitely a different story here. Most are closed or
private. I'm not debating the fairness of this phenomenon; just stating
a fact.

Most of us have one or a few favorite repeaters anyway. Mine sits in
the clear at 8,000' elevation and can be used with a HT from almost
anywhere in southern California.

73 de Jim - AD6CW

On 5/19/2014 4:07 PM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:

> Another example of how mileage may vary...
>
> Apparently you haven't been to California (lately). One can't get a
> two meter frequency to put up a repeater pretty much anywhere (even
> though the band may appear to be dead) and six is pretty full too.
> 420-450 is disallowed over much of the state (150 miles circumference
> from Beale/PavePaws)... Not a wasteland, just ham politics; often
> downright ugly.
>
> 10M has open repeater slots; 220 is near capacity in some areas.
>
> At least until recently, the CHP has been using 70 MHz for site
> linking but that may fade away since they're in the middle of a huge
> rebuild/remodel of their spectrum.
>
> And there are still low power TV stations using either digital or
> analog back in that range too... Typically minority language,
> Hallelujah or Sellavision channels, but the bottom line is: 4M won't
> happen here.
>
> 73,
> Rick wa6nhc

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

k6dgw

Re: 4M Question

In reply to this post by Rick WA6NHC

Overstatement seems to be the norm in everything these days. :-))

Not exactly "disallowed." NorCal Hams have gotten along with the Air
Force and their big radar for decades. Their mission expanded, some
mods to the radar, and, through the FCC, they asked for reductions in
repeater field strength at the radar. The mitigation requirements
varied all over the place. Some required just moving the 440 antenna to
the other side of the tower. Some -- Mt. Diablo for example [directly
in front of the radar] -- were pretty severe, in the 45-50 dB range,
which is pretty much "not on the air."

The requirement for the NCCRA/Cactus system on Bald Mt [K6SRA] was 35 dB
which we were able to achieve by lowering the power about 7 dB and
putting a directional antenna on the 440 with a 32 dB side null aimed at
the radar. Thanks to fortuitous geography, the forward gain compensates
for the power decrease, and our coverage into the Lower Sacramento/Upper
San Joaquin Valleys is still very good. The null unfortunately passes
right over my QTH, but from home with a small beam, I'm fine. :-)

The radar scan limit is a line about through PHX. Our Squaw Peak system
received no mitigation requirement.

Incidentally, to the best of my knowledge, there were no mitigation
requirements issued for stations transmitting below 440 MHz. Having had
a tiny bit of experience with PAVE PAWS in a past life, I'm not surprised.

If 70 Mhz becomes an allocation, I'm pretty sure a 70 MHz xverter from
Elecraft would be a good product. Depending on the size of the
allocation [if it happens], it might be interesting to not do repeaters
there and leave it open for all the other things we do with our radios.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014
- www.cqp.org

On 5/19/2014 4:07 PM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:

> 420-450 is
> disallowed over much of the state (150 miles circumference from
> Beale/PavePaws)... Not a wasteland, just ham politics; often downright
> ugly.

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Jim Brown-10

Re: 4M Question

In reply to this post by Rick WA6NHC

On 5/19/2014 4:07 PM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:
> One can't get a two meter frequency to put up a repeater pretty much
> anywhere (even though the band may appear to be dead)

I look at the situation differently -- too many repeaters with no one
using them.

73, Jim K9YC

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Rick WA6NHC

Re: 4M Question

That's what I said too Jim.

You can't get a pair because they're all allocated, yet (relatively) no one is using the repeaters.

Of course there are a couple repeaters that also never shut off while little is really being said; a topic common to humanity. ;-)

73,
Rick wa6nhc

Tiny iPhone 5 keypad, typos are inevitable

> On May 20, 2014, at 7:49 AM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 5/19/2014 4:07 PM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:
>> One can't get a two meter frequency to put up a repeater pretty much anywhere (even though the band may appear to be dead)
>
> I look at the situation differently -- too many repeaters with no one using them.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: 4M Question

Administrator

Folks - Let's close the repeater usage part of the discussion. This is the OT part of the discussion we closed yesterday.

In general, please self moderate in the future when threads drift way OT, in the interest of limiting email overload for our list readers.

73,
Eric
List Moderator and counselor
elecraft.com
_..._

> On May 20, 2014, at 8:00 AM, Rick Bates <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> That's what I said too Jim.
>
> You can't get a pair because they're all allocated, yet (relatively) no one is using the repeaters.
>
> Of course there are a couple repeaters that also never shut off while little is really being said; a topic common to humanity. ;-)
>
> 73,
> Rick wa6nhc
>
> Tiny iPhone 5 keypad, typos are inevitable
>
>>> On May 20, 2014, at 7:49 AM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 5/19/2014 4:07 PM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:
>>> One can't get a two meter frequency to put up a repeater pretty much anywhere (even though the band may appear to be dead)
>>
>> I look at the situation differently -- too many repeaters with no one using them.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Phil Wheeler-2

Re: 4M Question

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

I agree, Jim. Apparently all the pairs were
committed when there was heavy usage (in the
pre-cellphone era?). Now they tend to sit there
with only a few seeing significant use. It's a
crying shame.

Phil w7ox

On 5/20/14, 7:49 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On 5/19/2014 4:07 PM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:
>> One can't get a two meter frequency to put up a
>> repeater pretty much anywhere (even though the
>> band may appear to be dead)
>
> I look at the situation differently -- too many
> repeaters with no one using them.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]