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6 meters Newbie

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Alan Bloom

Re: 6 meters Newbie

On Fri, 2010-07-02 at 13:08 -0700, W8JH wrote:

> Now I have to think about the PR-6 and a better antenna!

You don't need anything fancy. Once, for a Field-Day-type operation in
a VHF contest, I kludged together a temporary 3-el, 6 meter beam out of
scraps of steel electrical conduit. It worked great!

Al N1AL

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Bob Stevens-2

Re: 6 meters Newbie

In reply to this post by W8JH

I think you already have the fever Joe.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of W8JH
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 3:08 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6 meters Newbie

Many thanks to all who responded. I just heard my first signal on 6m CW! I
copied a CQ from KE4PT who according to QRZ.com is in Florida. It was
marginal copy at best so I didn't try to call him but it was exciting for me
anyway. I have no idea why I have never found a station before today
despite listening and checking DX spots for quite some time. I guess I have
been on at the wrong times.

FWIW, I could only hear KE4PT on the 80m loop fed with 600ohm ladder line
through the BT-1500. The dipole (only at about 20 feet admittedly) was
noise. Althougth the Palstar is not spec'd on 6m I have read multiple
reports of hams having good luck there.

Now I have to think about the PR-6 and a better antenna! I'm sure one good
opening would give me the fever.

73,

Joe, W8JH
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Ken McGuire

RE: 6 meters Newbie

In reply to this post by W8JH

Partially because of this thread, I got on 6M a bit Saturday when there was an obvious 10M opening.

While most of my qso's since 2002 have been CW, I had yet to make a 6M CW qso. Instead I had just used SSB and FM. But in the opening Saturday, I found out a few things.

1) I was frustrated at how slow the chats were on SSB (FM was even worse) - it seemed like they were wasting a perfectly good band opening ragchewing. I don't mind ragchewing and will do a bit of it myself, but usually on 30, 40, or 80.

2) When I turned down to the CW portion of the band, it almost sounded like a CW contest weekend. Very efficent operating and the band was FULL of signals. The receiver I had been using for 6M was not really up to this. I eventually dug out the TT 1208 and attached it to my K2. MUCH better for me, even if less power going out.

Ken McGuire
KC8LTL en72

Jim Brown-10

6M CW

On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:29:08 -0700 (PDT), Ken McGuire wrote:

>I was frustrated at how slow the chats were on SSB (FM was even worse) -
>it seemed like they were wasting a perfectly good band opening ragchewing

Yep. Same here. Often, an opening on any given path may be there only long
enough to exchange the grid and report. It's quite frustrating to wait to
call a station that was S9, then S7, then S5, then S3, then fumes, while
the time is filled with innanity.

>When I turned down to the CW portion of the band, it almost sounded like
>a CW contest weekend.

Yes. I've gotten to the point that I spend most of my 6M efforts on CW,
only tuning up to the SSB portion of the band when nothing is happening on
CW. And thanks in part to the proliferation of K3s, there is a lot more CW
activity than there was only 5 years ago.

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: 6M CW

I don't feel that way at all. A contact in which only grids are exchanged leaves me with little satisfaction at all. I at least like to exchange names and QTH. I get enough of the quicky QSOs with contests. I don't need more on six meters or digital contacts. I know I am out of step with the avant guarde, but I don't enjoy six meters much because of these quick exchanges.
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
K5EWJ

________________________________
From: Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 10:41:55 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] 6M CW

On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:29:08 -0700 (PDT), Ken McGuire wrote:

>I was frustrated at how slow the chats were on SSB (FM was even worse) -
>it seemed like they were wasting a perfectly good band opening ragchewing

Yep. Same here. Often, an opening on any given path may be there only long
enough to exchange the grid and report. It's quite frustrating to wait to
call a station that was S9, then S7, then S5, then S3, then fumes, while
the time is filled with innanity.

>When I turned down to the CW portion of the band, it almost sounded like
>a CW contest weekend.

Yes. I've gotten to the point that I spend most of my 6M efforts on CW,
only tuning up to the SSB portion of the band when nothing is happening on
CW. And thanks in part to the proliferation of K3s, there is a lot more CW
activity than there was only 5 years ago.

73, Jim K9YC

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Gary Gregory

Re: 6M CW

Cookie,

You are not alone.

My sentiments exactly.

Gary

On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 5:29 AM, WILLIS COOKE <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I don't feel that way at all. A contact in which only grids are exchanged
> leaves me with little satisfaction at all. I at least like
> to exchange names and QTH. I get enough of the quicky QSOs with contests.
> I don't need more on six meters or digital contacts. I know I am out of
> step with the avant guarde, but I don't enjoy six meters much because of
> these quick exchanges.
> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
> K5EWJ
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
> To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 10:41:55 AM
> Subject: [Elecraft] 6M CW
>
> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:29:08 -0700 (PDT), Ken McGuire wrote:
>
> >I was frustrated at how slow the chats were on SSB (FM was even worse) -
> >it seemed like they were wasting a perfectly good band opening ragchewing
>
> Yep. Same here. Often, an opening on any given path may be there only long
> enough to exchange the grid and report. It's quite frustrating to wait to
> call a station that was S9, then S7, then S5, then S3, then fumes, while
> the time is filled with innanity.
>
> >When I turned down to the CW portion of the band, it almost sounded like
> >a CW contest weekend.
>
> Yes. I've gotten to the point that I spend most of my 6M efforts on CW,
> only tuning up to the SSB portion of the band when nothing is happening on
> CW. And thanks in part to the proliferation of K3s, there is a lot more CW
> activity than there was only 5 years ago.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
>
>
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--
Gary
VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile
http://www.qsl.net/vk4fd/
K3 #679
For everything else there's Mastercard!!!
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The Smiths

Re: 6M CW

In reply to this post by Cookie

Wow, someone else that agrees with me.

6 meters is a BIG disapointment. You get on there and all you hear is stuff you could otherwise work with a 10' wire on 17 meters, and then all you get is a call sign and if you're lucky an RST.. Then before you can even say goodbye or 73 the other person has already gone. What kind of enjoyment is that? To each their own.. I'll save that kind of operation for Contesters...

> Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 12:29:59 -0700
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW
>
> I don't feel that way at all. A contact in which only grids are exchanged leaves me with little satisfaction at all. I at least like to exchange names and QTH. I get enough of the quicky QSOs with contests. I don't need more on six meters or digital contacts. I know I am out of step with the avant guarde, but I don't enjoy six meters much because of these quick exchanges.
> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
> K5EWJ
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
> To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 10:41:55 AM
> Subject: [Elecraft] 6M CW
>
> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:29:08 -0700 (PDT), Ken McGuire wrote:
>
> >I was frustrated at how slow the chats were on SSB (FM was even worse) -
> >it seemed like they were wasting a perfectly good band opening ragchewing
>
> Yep. Same here. Often, an opening on any given path may be there only long
> enough to exchange the grid and report. It's quite frustrating to wait to
> call a station that was S9, then S7, then S5, then S3, then fumes, while
> the time is filled with innanity.
>
> >When I turned down to the CW portion of the band, it almost sounded like
> >a CW contest weekend.
>
> Yes. I've gotten to the point that I spend most of my 6M efforts on CW,
> only tuning up to the SSB portion of the band when nothing is happening on
> CW. And thanks in part to the proliferation of K3s, there is a lot more CW
> activity than there was only 5 years ago.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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David Gilbert

Re: 6M CW

I think the issue is that openings are often so brief on 6m that while
you're exchanging pleasantries the guy waiting behind you is likely to
end up with nothing. That's the radio equivalent of having the guy in
front of you in the left turn lane use up the entire arrow.

Just as in any other situation, it seems appropriate to me for folks to
adapt their operating habits to the environment at hand but clearly not
everyone views it that way. I had never operated 6m before but last
June (2009) I thought it might be fun to chase grids on Es. I
discovered that most of the activity was on SSB, and my experience after
a few weeks effort was that a rather high percentage of the people I
heard were in the mud by the time they finished chatting. Not much fun
in that for me and I haven't even bothered with it this year. Waiting
out propagation is one thing ... helplessly watching it go away is quite
another.

73,
Dave AB7E

On 7/5/2010 1:37 PM, The Smiths wrote:

> Wow, someone else that agrees with me.
>
> 6 meters is a BIG disapointment. You get on there and all you hear is stuff you could otherwise work with a 10' wire on 17 meters, and then all you get is a call sign and if you're lucky an RST.. Then before you can even say goodbye or 73 the other person has already gone. What kind of enjoyment is that? To each their own.. I'll save that kind of operation for Contesters...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 12:29:59 -0700
>> From: [hidden email]
>> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW
>>
>> I don't feel that way at all. A contact in which only grids are exchanged leaves me with little satisfaction at all. I at least like to exchange names and QTH. I get enough of the quicky QSOs with contests. I don't need more on six meters or digital contacts. I know I am out of step with the avant guarde, but I don't enjoy six meters much because of these quick exchanges.
>> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
>> K5EWJ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Jim Brown<[hidden email]>
>> To: "[hidden email]"<[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 10:41:55 AM
>> Subject: [Elecraft] 6M CW
>>
>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:29:08 -0700 (PDT), Ken McGuire wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I was frustrated at how slow the chats were on SSB (FM was even worse) -
>>> it seemed like they were wasting a perfectly good band opening ragchewing
>>>
>> Yep. Same here. Often, an opening on any given path may be there only long
>> enough to exchange the grid and report. It's quite frustrating to wait to
>> call a station that was S9, then S7, then S5, then S3, then fumes, while
>> the time is filled with innanity.
>>
>>
>>> When I turned down to the CW portion of the band, it almost sounded like
>>> a CW contest weekend.
>>>
>> Yes. I've gotten to the point that I spend most of my 6M efforts on CW,
>> only tuning up to the SSB portion of the band when nothing is happening on
>> CW. And thanks in part to the proliferation of K3s, there is a lot more CW
>> activity than there was only 5 years ago.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>

w5tvw

Re: 6M CW

In reply to this post by Cookie

This phenomenon is not restricted to 6 meters! The same thing happens on HF
as well: people looking for "club" numbers, grid squares, counties,etc.,
etc. The whole "contest" mentality has corrupted all the "old" and "polite"
methods of establishing a QSO when there are no contests at all! Also the
"Elmers" of today, aided and abetted by the ARRL, have all but completely
"eliminated" the normal calling protocols of yesteryear. It isn't at all
"unusual" to tune up and send a few "V's" and have someone just drop their
callsign on you just ONCE! As I now an "old timer" in age and amateur
radio, I "wonder" when this happens. Is this chap calling me? Is he just
testing? Even if you send "QRZ? de W5TVW K" you may just get a callsign
sent ONCE! Also people sending: "DE W4ABC" instead of calling "CQ".
"Newer" QRPers answering a CQ call just sending their callsign just ONCE!
There isn't that "all important" OPERATING section still published in the
"Handbook"! Guess the folks at ARRL thought they could make a few extra
bucks by publishing a special book dealing with that subject that obviously
everyone ISN"T buying!
I enjoy contests on CW doing QRP and usually these are limited to a small
segment of the CW sub-band, and they don't seem to be on every weekend. 6
meters used to be a really "fun" band back in the "AM" phone days, but I
didn't figure it would be degraded to nothing but "hello, goodbye" type
contacts.

Sorry for this, guess I sound like a grouchy "old fart" but where has all
the politeness gone?

73,

Sandy W5TVW

----- Original Message -----
From: "WILLIS COOKE" <[hidden email]>
To: "Jim Brown" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

I don't feel that way at all. A contact in which only grids are exchanged
leaves me with little satisfaction at all. I at least like to exchange names
and QTH. I get enough of the quicky QSOs with contests. I don't need more on
six meters or digital contacts. I know I am out of step with the avant
guarde, but I don't enjoy six meters much because of these quick exchanges.
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
K5EWJ

________________________________
From: Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 10:41:55 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] 6M CW

On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:29:08 -0700 (PDT), Ken McGuire wrote:

>I was frustrated at how slow the chats were on SSB (FM was even worse) -
>it seemed like they were wasting a perfectly good band opening ragchewing

Yep. Same here. Often, an opening on any given path may be there only long
enough to exchange the grid and report. It's quite frustrating to wait to
call a station that was S9, then S7, then S5, then S3, then fumes, while
the time is filled with innanity.

>When I turned down to the CW portion of the band, it almost sounded like
>a CW contest weekend.

Yes. I've gotten to the point that I spend most of my 6M efforts on CW,
only tuning up to the SSB portion of the band when nothing is happening on
CW. And thanks in part to the proliferation of K3s, there is a lot more CW
activity than there was only 5 years ago.

73, Jim K9YC

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k0wa@swbell.net

Re: 6M CW

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

The issue here is "Awards." Working grids, states and countries on 6 meters. It is my feeling that is what makes QSOs so quick on 6 meters, or conducted in "contest mode." Now, I am not an long time 6 meter
operator (in fact, I've been on the band since July 1, 2010) but I have
been able to work about 250 people since. I operated contest style on
SSB....59/EM18. Why? Trying to gather in as many grids squares as
possible....and....as many states as possible in the shortest amount of
time (because of the "rare" opening on 6 meters) for AWARDS!

Now, I had a few short rag chews....people I knew and some I did not...but
for the most part...I was working people as fast as possible for "award
points." WAS, VUCC and DXCC.

On a K3 Note.... The radio performed flawlessly on both CW and SSB without the pre-amp.

Lee - K0WA

====================================================================================

Ham Radio Operators: Kansas QSO Party is August 28-29, 2010. See www.ksqsoparty.org for details

In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine?

Common Sense is the image of the Creator expressing revealed truth in my mind. - J. Wolf
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ussv dharma

Re: 6M CW

In reply to this post by Cookie

I work from various dx locations....I DO NOT, AND WILL NOT give the "wham bam thank you mam" type of qso. I talk with the other station....what, you don't like it...well, you spend all the money to get to dx spots and then you can do as you like.

susan....the cranky old lady

If you don't change direction you WILL arrive exactly where you're headed!! Susan Meckley, Skipper W7KFI-mm AFA9SM USSV DHARMA

--- On Mon, 7/5/10, WILLIS COOKE <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: WILLIS COOKE <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW
> To: "Jim Brown" <[hidden email]>, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Monday, July 5, 2010, 9:29 AM
> I don't feel that way at all. A
> contact in which only grids are exchanged leaves me with
> little satisfaction at all. I at least like
> to exchange names and QTH. I get enough of the quicky
> QSOs with contests. I don't need more on six meters or
> digital contacts. I know I am out of step with the avant
> guarde, but I don't enjoy six meters much because of these
> quick exchanges.
> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
> K5EWJ
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
> To: "[hidden email]"
> <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 10:41:55 AM
> Subject: [Elecraft] 6M CW
>
> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:29:08 -0700 (PDT), Ken McGuire
> wrote:
>
> >I was frustrated at how slow the chats were on SSB (FM
> was even worse) -
> >it seemed like they were wasting a perfectly good band
> opening ragchewing
>
> Yep. Same here. Often, an opening on any given path may be
> there only long
> enough to exchange the grid and report. It's quite
> frustrating to wait to
> call a station that was S9, then S7, then S5, then S3, then
> fumes, while
> the time is filled with innanity.
>
> >When I turned down to the CW portion of the band, it
> almost sounded like
> >a CW contest weekend.
>
> Yes. I've gotten to the point that I spend most of my 6M
> efforts on CW,
> only tuning up to the SSB portion of the band when nothing
> is happening on
> CW. And thanks in part to the proliferation of K3s, there
> is a lot more CW
> activity than there was only 5 years ago.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

Brett Howard

Re: 6M CW

In reply to this post by w5tvw

Heck I guess I'll stop doing that... I've just kinda learned from
listening to the bands. I'm finally getting my speed up fast enough
that actually carrying on a QSO is possible. At 8WPM your RST, Name,
QTH, RIG and ANT is a 30 to 40 minute conversation. ;) However at
13WPM I've been able to actually have conversations with people about
the K3 find out that they've recently retired and what they used to do
and well all sorts of fun stuff... (I'm referring to a 40 minute
conversation that I had on 40 last night...)

Then heck I ran into a guy the other day who was only about 20 minutes
bike ride from here. We ended up having a 1.6 hour or so QSO. Both of
our brains were going to mush by the end as we were both working hard
for it but hey its fun!

I'm by no means an old salt at the age of 29 but I do try to be polite
and do find it fun to get into the longer QSO's via CW. I often find
that SSB bores me for casual operating but I do find SSB interesting for
contests.

But anyway just wanted to let you know that your post has hit home with
someone and I'll start sending my call a few times when answering a
CQ... I usually figure that I want to try and get in there quick before
their auto repeat kicks in.... Then if they need a fill we can always
take care of that later. Guess I've been being rude all this time and
had no idea.

Sorry...

~Brett (N7MG)

On Mon, 2010-07-05 at 16:13 -0500, Sandy wrote:

> This phenomenon is not restricted to 6 meters! The same thing happens on HF
> as well: people looking for "club" numbers, grid squares, counties,etc.,
> etc. The whole "contest" mentality has corrupted all the "old" and "polite"
> methods of establishing a QSO when there are no contests at all! Also the
> "Elmers" of today, aided and abetted by the ARRL, have all but completely
> "eliminated" the normal calling protocols of yesteryear. It isn't at all
> "unusual" to tune up and send a few "V's" and have someone just drop their
> callsign on you just ONCE! As I now an "old timer" in age and amateur
> radio, I "wonder" when this happens. Is this chap calling me? Is he just
> testing? Even if you send "QRZ? de W5TVW K" you may just get a callsign
> sent ONCE! Also people sending: "DE W4ABC" instead of calling "CQ".
> "Newer" QRPers answering a CQ call just sending their callsign just ONCE!
> There isn't that "all important" OPERATING section still published in the
> "Handbook"! Guess the folks at ARRL thought they could make a few extra
> bucks by publishing a special book dealing with that subject that obviously
> everyone ISN"T buying!
> I enjoy contests on CW doing QRP and usually these are limited to a small
> segment of the CW sub-band, and they don't seem to be on every weekend. 6
> meters used to be a really "fun" band back in the "AM" phone days, but I
> didn't figure it would be degraded to nothing but "hello, goodbye" type
> contacts.
>
> Sorry for this, guess I sound like a grouchy "old fart" but where has all
> the politeness gone?
>
> 73,
>
> Sandy W5TVW
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "WILLIS COOKE" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Jim Brown" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 2:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW
>
>
> I don't feel that way at all. A contact in which only grids are exchanged
> leaves me with little satisfaction at all. I at least like to exchange names
> and QTH. I get enough of the quicky QSOs with contests. I don't need more on
> six meters or digital contacts. I know I am out of step with the avant
> guarde, but I don't enjoy six meters much because of these quick exchanges.
> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
> K5EWJ
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
> To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 10:41:55 AM
> Subject: [Elecraft] 6M CW
>
> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:29:08 -0700 (PDT), Ken McGuire wrote:
>
> >I was frustrated at how slow the chats were on SSB (FM was even worse) -
> >it seemed like they were wasting a perfectly good band opening ragchewing
>
> Yep. Same here. Often, an opening on any given path may be there only long
> enough to exchange the grid and report. It's quite frustrating to wait to
> call a station that was S9, then S7, then S5, then S3, then fumes, while
> the time is filled with innanity.
>
> >When I turned down to the CW portion of the band, it almost sounded like
> >a CW contest weekend.
>
> Yes. I've gotten to the point that I spend most of my 6M efforts on CW,
> only tuning up to the SSB portion of the band when nothing is happening on
> CW. And thanks in part to the proliferation of K3s, there is a lot more CW
> activity than there was only 5 years ago.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
>
>
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gd0tep

Re: 6M CW

This thread has been quite interesting....

I respect the station that can sit and rag chew on CW, I've tried it on one
of the HF bands, and found it very demanding on the brain.

On 6m... If the band was open with more than one hop of SpE, I'll be chasing
new grid squares, or DXCC countries. I do it on single hop SpE as well, but
with more than one hop available, some real DX might also be available..

I think a lot of 'DXers' on 6m would be upset to hear a W7 on the band and
not be able to have a quick QSO... I sure would be...

That doesn't mean people can't be polite... I've heard and worked what I
consider to be good DX (more than one hop SpE) and the DX station insisted
on names as well as report... And, as he had a pile up, that's what he got
with every QSO... now that's not unfair, it's just what the 'DX' wanted.

In the large RSGB/IARU contest, even with the band going 'ding dong' I
always try to pass over GM or GA on each QSO... does this slow the rate
down...? maybe.... has it damaged to score? I don't think so, and we've won
the contest 10 times in the last 13 years...

Yesterdays DX from here was C56E, I've a short video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrCvY4OjZJ4

At the end of the day, it's a hobby... have fun, do what you enjoy... but
remember the rest of us out there... :-)

73,
Andy
http://gd0tep.com

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Brett Howard
Sent: 06 July 2010 06:12
To: Sandy
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

Heck I guess I'll stop doing that... I've just kinda learned from listening
to the bands. I'm finally getting my speed up fast enough that actually
carrying on a QSO is possible. At 8WPM your RST, Name, QTH, RIG and ANT is
a 30 to 40 minute conversation. ;) However at 13WPM I've been able to
actually have conversations with people about the K3 find out that they've
recently retired and what they used to do and well all sorts of fun stuff...
(I'm referring to a 40 minute conversation that I had on 40 last night...)

Then heck I ran into a guy the other day who was only about 20 minutes bike
ride from here. We ended up having a 1.6 hour or so QSO. Both of our
brains were going to mush by the end as we were both working hard for it but
hey its fun!

I'm by no means an old salt at the age of 29 but I do try to be polite and
do find it fun to get into the longer QSO's via CW. I often find that SSB
bores me for casual operating but I do find SSB interesting for contests.

But anyway just wanted to let you know that your post has hit home with
someone and I'll start sending my call a few times when answering a CQ... I
usually figure that I want to try and get in there quick before their auto
repeat kicks in.... Then if they need a fill we can always take care of
that later. Guess I've been being rude all this time and had no idea.

Sorry...

~Brett (N7MG)

On Mon, 2010-07-05 at 16:13 -0500, Sandy wrote:
> This phenomenon is not restricted to 6 meters! The same thing happens
> on HF as well: people looking for "club" numbers, grid squares,
> counties,etc., etc. The whole "contest" mentality has corrupted all the
"old" and "polite"
> methods of establishing a QSO when there are no contests at all! Also
> the "Elmers" of today, aided and abetted by the ARRL, have all but
> completely "eliminated" the normal calling protocols of yesteryear.
> It isn't at all "unusual" to tune up and send a few "V's" and have
> someone just drop their callsign on you just ONCE! As I now an "old
> timer" in age and amateur radio, I "wonder" when this happens. Is
> this chap calling me? Is he just testing? Even if you send "QRZ? de
> W5TVW K" you may just get a callsign sent ONCE! Also people sending: "DE
W4ABC" instead of calling "CQ".

> "Newer" QRPers answering a CQ call just sending their callsign just ONCE!
> There isn't that "all important" OPERATING section still published in
> the "Handbook"! Guess the folks at ARRL thought they could make a few
> extra bucks by publishing a special book dealing with that subject
> that obviously everyone ISN"T buying!
> I enjoy contests on CW doing QRP and usually these are limited to a
> small segment of the CW sub-band, and they don't seem to be on every
> weekend. 6 meters used to be a really "fun" band back in the "AM"
> phone days, but I didn't figure it would be degraded to nothing but
> "hello, goodbye" type contacts.
>
> Sorry for this, guess I sound like a grouchy "old fart" but where has
> all the politeness gone?
>
> 73,
>
> Sandy W5TVW
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "WILLIS COOKE" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Jim Brown" <[hidden email]>;
> <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 2:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW
>
>
> I don't feel that way at all. A contact in which only grids are
> exchanged leaves me with little satisfaction at all. I at least like
> to exchange names and QTH. I get enough of the quicky QSOs with
> contests. I don't need more on six meters or digital contacts. I know
> I am out of step with the avant guarde, but I don't enjoy six meters much

because of these quick exchanges.

> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
> K5EWJ
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
> To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 10:41:55 AM
> Subject: [Elecraft] 6M CW
>
> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:29:08 -0700 (PDT), Ken McGuire wrote:
>
> >I was frustrated at how slow the chats were on SSB (FM was even
> >worse) - it seemed like they were wasting a perfectly good band
> >opening ragchewing
>
> Yep. Same here. Often, an opening on any given path may be there only
> long enough to exchange the grid and report. It's quite frustrating to
> wait to call a station that was S9, then S7, then S5, then S3, then
> fumes, while the time is filled with innanity.
>
> >When I turned down to the CW portion of the band, it almost sounded
> >like a CW contest weekend.
>
> Yes. I've gotten to the point that I spend most of my 6M efforts on
> CW, only tuning up to the SSB portion of the band when nothing is
> happening on CW. And thanks in part to the proliferation of K3s, there
> is a lot more CW activity than there was only 5 years ago.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
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> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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>
>
>
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>
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> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2983 - Release Date:
> 07/05/10 01:36:00
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John Ragle

Re: 6M CW

When I started ham radio, there were just two modes in use: CW and
AM phone. RTTY certainly existed commercially, but I can not recall
anyone mentioning that mode in those long-ago times. Moreover,
transceivers didn't exist...one had a transmitter, a receiver, and an
antenna change-over relay. QSK didn't exist. The "bug" was around, and
some operators had a marvelous "banana-boat" swing. Few operators had
rotatable yagis. The licensing structure demanded at least 13 wpm
proficiency.

Nowadays things are very different. [An attempt to survey the hobby
is given in: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio.] This list
focuses on a particular kind of hardware...a self-contained, 10 to 100
watt transceiver with full qsk on cw, as well as an astonishing range of
other capabilities. The personal computer has appeared on the scene,
making many new digital modes accessible. CW and WSJT have become the
prime weak signal modes, with QSK CW providing very fast,
highly-efficient, turn-around type QSOs. A single dit or two during a CQ
establishes a link. On HF, PSK or RTTY provide very leisurely media for
chatting -- one's attention can wander a bit, perhaps even to sipping
coffee (tea for the Brits). When conditions are good enough, SSB works
well for casual talk or for hello-goodbye exchanges.

All this obtains from rigs like the K3 or a few others, together
with the PC. Virtually unlimited frequency mobility, band coverage,
stability, full break-in, digital modes, and so forth are available.
There are still lids and careless operators. People still rag-chew on
the calling frequencies. Recently I waited patiently for 20 minutes
hoping a pair of W7 stations in western Washington on 6 meters would
take a break in their rag-chew, while they faded slowly in to S9
strength and slowly out to the noise level here in FN32. ...but, by and
large, operating techniques have changed to fit the available media. I
think this is quite appropriate, and if someone wants to do a
smash-and-grab QSO, I am content. When conditions are changing rapidly,
this seems entirely reasonable. I hold against a philosophy that says
"be reasonable, do it MY way!"

John Ragle-- W1ZI
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Guy, K2AV

Re: 6M CW

In reply to this post by Brett Howard

>Even if you send "QRZ? de W5TVW K" you may just get a callsign
>sent ONCE!

This is standard contesting procedure. Sending your call more than
once in clear conditions could be wasting time for those who copy CW
well. And in a pile up sending your call the second time could be
over the top of the DX and interfering with the DX sending only once
the call of the station he actually copied. This tends to make the
case that sending once is more polite if folks are waiting. Crisp one
by one by one by one, etc, clears pileups quicker if everyone sends
once to good operators in good conditions.

While you may have your point, reversing the austere frugality of a
single call reply habit when the distant station has no way of knowing
your state of mine, may simply be out of reach as a social goal. Time
marches on and customs change. And I can only imagine the number of
hams who are NOT looking to an ARRL publication to direct ham
etiquette in day-to-day communications, however positive or negative
one may feel about the ARRL.

What's happening on 6m is really very interesting. All the more so
because my already paid for K3 has 6m on it that isn't a joke. And
because I decided to run 1 1/4 inch hardline out to and up the tower,
which I can switch between the big tribander and 6 and 2.

For long time VHF afficionados, this infusion of new activity from
previously HF confined hams has to be a lot of fun.

73, Guy.
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N2TK

Re: 6M CW

In reply to this post by w5tvw

Hi Sandy,
Sometime it is a courtesy when someone drops their call once when you send
"test" or "V's" to let you know that they hear you in case you are wondering
if you are transmitting or getting out. Sometimes they drop their call once
and also send their state so that you know about the propagation. Sometimes
they drop their call once in case you want a QSO or are just testing.

Not sure I follow what is the problem with someone sending their call once?
If someone is purposely calling you and signals are good, why repeat the
call more than once?

I enjoy both rag-chewing and contesting. Sometimes the band conditions don't
allow rag-chewing. At the moment I am trying to work FP on 6M. With the QSB
I am getting only snippets of his call. I would be happy just to get a
signal report exchange.

73,
N2TK, Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sandy
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 5:14 PM
To: WILLIS COOKE; Jim Brown; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

This phenomenon is not restricted to 6 meters! The same thing happens on HF

as well: people looking for "club" numbers, grid squares, counties,etc.,
etc. The whole "contest" mentality has corrupted all the "old" and "polite"

methods of establishing a QSO when there are no contests at all! Also the
"Elmers" of today, aided and abetted by the ARRL, have all but completely
"eliminated" the normal calling protocols of yesteryear. It isn't at all
"unusual" to tune up and send a few "V's" and have someone just drop their
callsign on you just ONCE! As I now an "old timer" in age and amateur
radio, I "wonder" when this happens. Is this chap calling me? Is he just
testing? Even if you send "QRZ? de W5TVW K" you may just get a callsign
sent ONCE! Also people sending: "DE W4ABC" instead of calling "CQ".
"Newer" QRPers answering a CQ call just sending their callsign just ONCE!
There isn't that "all important" OPERATING section still published in the
"Handbook"! Guess the folks at ARRL thought they could make a few extra
bucks by publishing a special book dealing with that subject that obviously
everyone ISN"T buying!
I enjoy contests on CW doing QRP and usually these are limited to a small
segment of the CW sub-band, and they don't seem to be on every weekend. 6
meters used to be a really "fun" band back in the "AM" phone days, but I
didn't figure it would be degraded to nothing but "hello, goodbye" type
contacts.

Sorry for this, guess I sound like a grouchy "old fart" but where has all
the politeness gone?

73,

Sandy W5TVW

----- Original Message -----
From: "WILLIS COOKE" <[hidden email]>
To: "Jim Brown" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

I don't feel that way at all. A contact in which only grids are exchanged
leaves me with little satisfaction at all. I at least like to exchange names

and QTH. I get enough of the quicky QSOs with contests. I don't need more on

six meters or digital contacts. I know I am out of step with the avant
guarde, but I don't enjoy six meters much because of these quick exchanges.
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
K5EWJ

________________________________
From: Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 10:41:55 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] 6M CW

On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:29:08 -0700 (PDT), Ken McGuire wrote:

>I was frustrated at how slow the chats were on SSB (FM was even worse) -
>it seemed like they were wasting a perfectly good band opening ragchewing

Yep. Same here. Often, an opening on any given path may be there only long
enough to exchange the grid and report. It's quite frustrating to wait to
call a station that was S9, then S7, then S5, then S3, then fumes, while
the time is filled with innanity.

>When I turned down to the CW portion of the band, it almost sounded like
>a CW contest weekend.

Yes. I've gotten to the point that I spend most of my 6M efforts on CW,
only tuning up to the SSB portion of the band when nothing is happening on
CW. And thanks in part to the proliferation of K3s, there is a lot more CW
activity than there was only 5 years ago.

73, Jim K9YC

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01:36:00

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N1IX-2

Re: 6M CW

I know this is not a 6 meter discussion group but I do have a K3.
I am hearing a lot of people on 6 meters working DX which I cannot hear,
also calling CQDX. I am wondering what kind of antennas you are using? I am
using a 3 element SteppIr and am in FN42

Dave N1IX

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K5DNL

Re: 6M CW

Dave,

Antenna here is M2 5 ele 18 ft boom @ 50 ft, feedline is
LMR-600 ( 1 DB loss per 100 FT ) maybe less at 50mhz.
We had a few nice opening here in Oklahoma and I have
worked 25 DXCC and abt 13 are new .
Most were on CW running about 400 Watts.
The K3 and the preamp make a nice 6m rig.
73 Good dxing
Ken K5DNL

---------------------------------------------------------------------

--- On Tue, 7/6/10, David leDuc <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: David leDuc <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 8:53 AM
> I know this is not a 6 meter
> discussion group but I do have a K3.
> I am hearing a lot of people on 6 meters working DX which I
> cannot hear,
> also calling CQDX. I am wondering what kind of antennas you
> are using? I am
> using a 3 element SteppIr and am in FN42
>
> Dave N1IX
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>

Jim Brown-10

Re: 6M CW

In reply to this post by N1IX-2

On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 09:53:44 -0400, David leDuc wrote:

> I am wondering what kind of antennas you are using? I am
>using a 3 element SteppIr and am in FN42

About a year ago, I put a 3-el SteppIR with 6M element on a tower.
Before that I worked a lot of 6M DX with my K3 by loading my 40M
dipole. I made at least a half dozen QSOs from my QTH near San
Francisco to the east coast, and worked several KH6. The SteppIR, of
course, works better. :)

6M truly is a band that allows you to have a lot of fun with a modest
antenna when it's open. That's why it's called the magic band.

73, Jim K9YC

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n7ws

Re: 6M CW

During the 2009 ARRL Field Day I was working from home on emergency power. I had cobbled together a 6-meter preamp for the K3 and decided to take a listen. I don't have a 6-meter antenna so I was using my paralleled wire 40-80 meter inverted V with almost 200' of RG214.

Two of the local clubs do FD from the cool pines on a 9,000+ feet ASL mountain NE of the Tucson valley. One of them was hogging 50.125 on SSB and needless to say was quite strong and quite broad. I worked a few of the louder Es stations that were coming through and then tuned down below the loudmouth and heard a weak CQ on CW. It was JL8GFB. So I called and worked him.

An hour and ten minutes later, I worked JA7WSZ. So the band was open to JA for over an hour and a lot of people missed it because they were on SSB and not tuning.

Wes N7WS

--- On Tue, 7/6/10, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

6M truly is a band that allows you to have a lot of fun with a modest
antenna when it's open. That's why it's called the magic band.

73, Jim K9YC

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