6 meters Newbie

[k1htv]

Dave,
   The 6 Meter band can be VERY selective as to who is favored with the
propagation required to work DX. You must know to what area the DX is working.
Keep and eye on the 'www.vhfdx.net' website and its DX-Sherlock application to
see what regions are working each other.  If others in your region are working
DX and you are not hearing it, keep listening. Don't be surprised if suddenly
you begin to hear DX. Don't expect to just turn on your K3 and hear the DX that
others are working, although that does happen at times during a widespread
opening.

So, what does it take to work DX on 50 MHz? Well, I presently am using a
barefoot K3 and a yagi on my back porch, only 20 feet high. From my VA QTH
(FM18ap), in the direction of SE thru SW the yagi looks into the house. In all
other directions, including Europe and the West Coast the yagi look into 40 to
50 ft high trees. You would thing that with this antennas system I'd have a
tough time working DX.  Not so! Making QSOs is quite easy...when the band opens
up. Since July 1, over 270 QSOs have been entered into the K1HTV log book,
almost half of them on CW.

Since the first of June, 44 DX countries have been worked, 27 of them since July
1st. Countries worked on 6 Meters with the low yagi and K3 include 9A, 9H, 9Y,
C5, C6, CN, CO, CT, CT3,CU, E7, EA, EA6, EA8, EI, F, FG, FM, FS, G, GD, GJ, HA,
HI, I, J3, J6, J8, KP2, KP4, LA, OX, P4, PJ2, S5, TF, V4, VE, VP2M, VP5, VP9, W,
XE and YN.

You will find that being up in FN42 you should be able to work much more Europe
DX than down here in VA, and probably the same amount of DX to the south. Just
be patient. If you are at you K3 when the band opens up there you'll soon be
entering DX QSOs into the N1IX log.

Have fun with your K3 on the magic Band!

73,
Rich - K1HTV
http:www.k1htv.us

= = =


Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 09:53:44 -0400
From: "David leDuc" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW
To: <[hidden email]>
Message-ID: <001a01cb1d12$a6627bc0$f3277340$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I know this is not a 6 meter discussion group but I do have a K3.
I am hearing a lot of people on 6 meters working DX which I cannot hear,
also calling CQDX. I am wondering what kind of antennas you are using? I am
using a 3 element SteppIr and am in  FN42

Dave N1IX

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[Don Cunningham]

Although I understand the reason for shortness on 6m QSO's, I really don't
see the reason on HF bands and I am joining you in lamenting the loss of
them, Sandy.  I spend DAYS looking for a good, RTTY ragchew, unless one of
my old friends shows up on frequency.  I had been off the air mostly, living
other parts of life, but when I returned in 2004 or so, long gone were most
of the long winded RTTY guys of old, and I miss it.  I thought maybe it was
a change in technology, so geared up for PSK, but got the very same name,
location, gear, bye, CUL QSO's there too.  I'll keep looking though, there
have to be some of the "old guys" still alive and looking.  Also, I was
making a few converts on 20m RTTY before a winter ice storm took the quad
down, so maybe I can "grow" some when I get the quad repaired, hi.
73,
Don, WB5HAK

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[Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO]

You know, I've been a ham long enough (since 1962) to remember people
complaining about this same sad trend nearly fifty years ago. "Nobody wants
to talk anymore, it's just report, QTH, name, CUL!" Same lament, different
era.

You remember the Rag Chewer's Club? It was established by the ARRL to
promote longer conversations on the air. I haven't been able to find its
date of origin in a quickie google of the Internet, but I did find an
attestation in a bio of some guy who had the award as far back as the early
1950s -- so it's been around at least that long! (And it's recently been
picked up by SPAR, the Society for the Preservation of Amateur Radio,
http://www.spar-hams.org, as a free award.)

Makes me wonder...

Maybe, just maybe, it has something to do with US. Like, the fact that a lot
of us are getting, um, well... OLD. Not to put too fine a point on it, you
know.

Maybe, when people get older, they tend to crave companionship, camaraderie,
and communication more than they used to, when they were younger. Maybe they
no longer yearn quite so passionately for the unique thrill of radio combat,
under whatever guise it might take (contesting, award-chasing, what have
you).

As Pogo famously said many years ago, "We have met the enemy, and he is US!"

In any case... I am close to 100% a 6-meter ham -- probably 95% or so -- and
I personally enjoy and participate in chasing DX, pursuing operating awards,
working all the VHF contests, and having long ragchews with friends new and
old when conditions permit. I hear LOTS of SSB ragchews on 6 meters when the
band is strongly open, as it is often -- for hours at a time -- during the
summer sporadic-E months we're currently enjoying.

Seriously, folks, I really don't think ham radio has changed all that much.
:-)

Bill W5WVO
DM65 New Mexico


--------------------------------------------------
From: "Don Cunningham" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 8:04 PM
To: "Sandy" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] Short QSO's (was Re:  6M CW)

> Although I understand the reason for shortness on 6m QSO's, I really don't
> see the reason on HF bands and I am joining you in lamenting the loss of
> them, Sandy.  I spend DAYS looking for a good, RTTY ragchew, unless one of
> my old friends shows up on frequency.  I had been off the air mostly,
> living
> other parts of life, but when I returned in 2004 or so, long gone were
> most
> of the long winded RTTY guys of old, and I miss it.  I thought maybe it
> was
> a change in technology, so geared up for PSK, but got the very same name,
> location, gear, bye, CUL QSO's there too.  I'll keep looking though, there
> have to be some of the "old guys" still alive and looking.  Also, I was
> making a few converts on 20m RTTY before a winter ice storm took the quad
> down, so maybe I can "grow" some when I get the quad repaired, hi.
> 73,
> Don, WB5HAK
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

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[Alan Bloom]

I agree.  Back in my Novice days in the late 60's it was hard to get
anyone to talk for any length of time.

But of course, at 5 wpm, just sending

"WN1ABC WN1ABC WN1ABC DE WN3XYZ WN3XYZ WN3XYZ R R R GUD SIG BT NAME NAME
IS ALAN ALAN ALAN BT QTH QTH IS SANTA ROSA CA SANTA ROSA CA SANTA ROSA
CA BT YOUR RST RST IS 599 599 599 BT HOW CPY? SK WN1ABC WN1ABC WN1ABC DE
WN3XYZ WN3XYZ WN3XYZ K"

takes about 8 minutes plus 8 minutes for the reply plus the time to sign
off, for a total 20 minutes or so QSO!

Al N1AL


On Thu, 2010-07-08 at 21:26 -0600, Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO wrote:
> You know, I've been a ham long enough (since 1962) to remember people
> complaining about this same sad trend nearly fifty years ago. "Nobody wants
> to talk anymore, it's just report, QTH, name, CUL!" Same lament, different
> era.


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[Don Wilhelm-4]

Alan,

My novice days were in 1956, and in those days, the T/R switch was a
DPDT lever switch.  QSK was only the dream of those first class
stations, and was only possible with a separate receiving antenna.  Much
has changed since those times, but old operating habits die slowly.

73,
Don W3FPR

Alan Bloom wrote:

> I agree.  Back in my Novice days in the late 60's it was hard to get
> anyone to talk for any length of time.
>
> But of course, at 5 wpm, just sending
>
> "WN1ABC WN1ABC WN1ABC DE WN3XYZ WN3XYZ WN3XYZ R R R GUD SIG BT NAME NAME
> IS ALAN ALAN ALAN BT QTH QTH IS SANTA ROSA CA SANTA ROSA CA SANTA ROSA
> CA BT YOUR RST RST IS 599 599 599 BT HOW CPY? SK WN1ABC WN1ABC WN1ABC DE
> WN3XYZ WN3XYZ WN3XYZ K"
>
> takes about 8 minutes plus 8 minutes for the reply plus the time to sign
> off, for a total 20 minutes or so QSO!
>
> Al N1AL
>
>
> On Thu, 2010-07-08 at 21:26 -0600, Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO wrote:
>  
>> You know, I've been a ham long enough (since 1962) to remember people
>> complaining about this same sad trend nearly fifty years ago. "Nobody wants
>> to talk anymore, it's just report, QTH, name, CUL!" Same lament, different
>> era.
>>    
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>  

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[Bill W4ZV]

Don Wilhelm-4 wrote

My novice days were in 1956, and in those days, the T/R switch was a
DPDT lever switch.  QSK was only the dream of those first class
stations, and was only possible with a separate receiving antenna.

The E.F. Johnson TR Switch was commercially available in the 50s and allowed QSK with a single antenna (note the following schematic is dated 1-2-58):

http://www.w8ji.com/johnson_tr_switch.htm

I used QSK with one of these at ~500 Watts out and a 75A-4 in the 1959-1962 era but don't use QSK now because of the complexity of my receiving antennas.

73,  Bill

[Joe Planisky]

I've had good luck finding rag chews using the Olivia mode.  Olivia is  
a digital MFSK mode that works very well in poor conditions.  Because  
it uses lots of redundancy when sending data, it's slower than many  
other digital modes.  (The most common sub-mode, 500/16, sends  
characters at about 19.5 WPM).  This slowness seems to make it  
unpopular with the RST-QTH-Name-73 crowd.  Ironically, the slow speed  
also seems to encourage rag chewing.  At least that's been my  
experience.   My theory is that if you're patient enough to use  
Olivia, your the kind of person who doesn't mind stopping to chat for  
a while :-)

Do a Google search for "olivia ham radio" and you'll find lots of info  
on it.

73
--
Joe KB8AP

On Jul 8, 2010, at 7:04 PM, Don Cunningham wrote:

> ...I spend DAYS looking for a good, RTTY ragchew, unless one of
> my old friends shows up on frequency.  ... I thought maybe it was
> a change in technology, so geared up for PSK, but got the very same  
> name,
> location, gear, bye, CUL QSO's there too. ...
> Don, WB5HAK

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[Dunc Carter - W5DC]

I had a TR switch that I can't remember the name of that had a 6AH6 that
was coupled to the tube side of the out pi network of my DX-100 through
a small capacitor.  It also functioned as a good preamp and added input
selectivity that my 455 KHz IF single conversion HRO-50 really needed on
the higher bands.  Before that, I also used a DPDT knife switch.

Dunc, W5DC
.
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[KENT TRIMBLE]

  Ah yes . . .

The Johnson T-R switch came in two iterations, as I recall.  The first
one suffered from suck-out, as did the second, but less so.

I still have the later one, having used it for years with a Gonset
GSB-100 and HQ-170, and later with my Drake B-twins to operate true QSK
(receiver not-muted but protected and monitoring the sending) on the NTS
traffic nets.

Need to dust that little gem off and get it back in service one of these
days.

BUT . . . the K3's QSK spoils ya!

73,

Kent  K9ZTV



On 7/8/2010 11:19 PM, Bill W4ZV wrote:

>
> The E.F. Johnson TR Switch was commercially available in the 50s and allowed
> QSK with a single antenna (note the following schematic is dated 1-2-58):
>
> http://www.w8ji.com/johnson_tr_switch.htm
>
> I used QSK with one of these at ~500 Watts out and a 75A-4 in the 1959-1962
> era but don't use QSK now because of the complexity of my receiving
> antennas.
>
> 73,  Bill
>

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[k6dgw]

Duncan Carter wrote:
> I had a TR switch that I can't remember the name of that had a 6AH6 that
> was coupled to the tube side of the out pi network of my DX-100 through
> a small capacitor.

Hey, I had one of those, 1954 I think!

   It also functioned as a good preamp and added input
> selectivity that my 455 KHz IF single conversion HRO-50 really needed on
> the higher bands.

Mine fed an ARC-5 rx converted for 40m [and with most of the rotor
plates on the tuning cap pulled out to spread the band over most of the
dial].  I had a pair of ARC-5's TX/RX each for 80, 40, and 20.

   Before that, I also used a DPDT knife switch.

Had one of those too, then "graduated" to a DPDT relay that made a very
satisfying "clank" when actuated.  Big thing, contact arms looked sort
of like spider legs.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2010 Cal QSO Party 2-3 Oct 2010
- www.cqp.org
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[The Smiths]

And it sounds really cool too.
 

> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 21:21:33 -0700
> CC: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Short QSO's (was Re: 6M CW)
>
> I've had good luck finding rag chews using the Olivia mode. Olivia is
> a digital MFSK mode that works very well in poor conditions. Because
> it uses lots of redundancy when sending data, it's slower than many
> other digital modes. (The most common sub-mode, 500/16, sends
> characters at about 19.5 WPM). This slowness seems to make it
> unpopular with the RST-QTH-Name-73 crowd. Ironically, the slow speed
> also seems to encourage rag chewing. At least that's been my
> experience. My theory is that if you're patient enough to use
> Olivia, your the kind of person who doesn't mind stopping to chat for
> a while :-)
>
> Do a Google search for "olivia ham radio" and you'll find lots of info
> on it.
>
> 73
> --
> Joe KB8AP
>
> On Jul 8, 2010, at 7:04 PM, Don Cunningham wrote:
>
> > ...I spend DAYS looking for a good, RTTY ragchew, unless one of
> > my old friends shows up on frequency. ... I thought maybe it was
> > a change in technology, so geared up for PSK, but got the very same
> > name,
> > location, gear, bye, CUL QSO's there too. ...
> > Don, WB5HAK
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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[John Ragle]

As I was trying to point out before, the availability of a variety of
modes on rigs like the K3 encourages a variety of operating styles. My
observation, like that of the two appended remarks, is that modes such
as RTTY, PSK, Olivia and others seem to encourage a bit more rag-chewing
than does, say, high-speed CW. I use these modes on my K3/100 and on my
K2/100 before it, and both boxes perform wonderfully.

It is a pity that a weak-signal mode like Olivia 500/16 is not more used
on 6 meters. Even on 2 meters,such modes are probably worth trying even
though multi-pathing becomes a relevant problem.

My favorite mode has become PSK31 -- it is wonderfully conservative of
band-width, and is reasonably useful even when conditions are not
perfect. Olivia 500/16 is less often encountered, but it is quite
astonishing to find text rising like Lazarus from the noise...

The point of all this palaver would seem to be "use the capabilities of
the new-age transceiver to their fullest." This is a plug for the K3,
which does it all in fine form, but also a resounding "hurrah!" for
software oriented hams producing outstanding software like fldigi. Not
all the newest transceivers on the market have these capabilities.
Between the K2 and the K3 I owned a Flex 3000, which (once set up)
worked the digital modes quite well with fldigi. However, it was almost
unusable on CW. Its greatest attraction seemed to be with operators who
wanted high-quality AM(!), a retrograde tendency if ever there was one.

John Ragle -- W1ZI

=====

On 7/9/2010 12:21 AM, Joe Planisky wrote: (JLR edited)

> I've had good luck finding rag chews using the Olivia mode....(its) slowness seems to make it
> unpopular with the RST-QTH-Name-73 crowd...the slow speed
> also seems to encourage rag chewing.
>
>
> On Jul 8, 2010, at 7:04 PM, Don Cunningham wrote: (JLR edited)
>> ...I spend DAYS looking for a good, RTTY ragchew, unless one of
>> my old friends shows up on frequency.  ... I thought maybe it was
>> a change in technology, so geared up for PSK, but got the very same...
>>      

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[W8JI]

> The Johnson T-R switch came in two iterations, as I recall.  The first
> one suffered from suck-out, as did the second, but less so.

Signal suckout occurs because the tank circuit in the transmitter presents a
low impedance when the tube end of the tank is misterminated during key-up
(resting or receiving) periods. Remember a tank circuit is also an
artificial or lumped transmission line that often looks like it is 100-140
degrees long electrically, so the impedance at the end going to the 50 ohm
cables can be very low when the tube is not conducting..shorting the
transmission line for received signals. If you would have added around 40-80
degrees of extra coax between the rig and the T/R switch tap point it would
have cured the signal suck-out.

For a very short time I ran my B+ through the second unused blade of my
knife switch so I could use one 300 volt supply for my receiver and
transmitter. Good training in eye-hand coordination.

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[Don Cunningham]

Thanks Bill, Joe and Alan for your observations.  I didn't mean to continue
a thread into oblivion so that's the reason I changed the title, hi.  Now it
has changed into T/R switching.  Oh well, that's the nature of the reflector
and a reason it is SO hard to search the archives.  Joe, I'll try Olivia and
see what I find.  I just miss the old commradery (sp?) of the former,
talkative RTTY bunch.  It has nothing to do with being old, as I was younger
and most of them had full time jobs and were busy building besides.  It was
just a gone and forgotten time, I guess.  73 all and enjoy your K3.
There, some Elecraft content, hi.
73,
Don, WB5HAK

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[Edward R Cole]

Haven't you guys figured it out, yet?  Rag chewing is done on e-mail
these days!


73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ   500 KHz - 10-GHz   www.kl7uw.com
EME: 144-QRT*, 432-100w, 1296-QRT*, 3400-fall 2010
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
======================================
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[Ken Kopp-3]

I routinely have what I consider long, "nice" QSO's, on both
phone and CW, and I have had for 58 years.  If I make an
"investment" in the fella on the other end, I usually get back
a good return. I ask questions.  I keep a road atlas at hand
to prompt questions about the area the guy lives in, etc.  

Most everyone likes to talk about themselves, and what they
say is usually interesting.  Ya just need to prime the pump.
It's not unusual for me to have a long QSO and not know what
rig or antenna the guy is using .... (:-))

None of the above applies to 6M grid chasing, however. (:-))
I -did- have a three-hour 6M QSO the other day, and it wasn't
with a "local" either.

73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
     [hidden email]


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