6 meters - need info (OT?)
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This relates to my consideration of purchasing a K3.
I know NOTHING about 6 meters. I'm an HF op who does CW and some SSB. What I believe about 6 meters comes from my (limited) experience on 10 meters. I'm expecting that 6 is mostly closed but has occasional openings, provided you're not at a sunspot low. I'm assuming the successful 6 meter operator has to be watching propagation and has to pick their operating time. I assume it is a hit or miss band and that you don't have any fun up there unless you put in the time and happen to catch it when it is open. I'm assuming the same effort put into to 10 meters would produce more QSOs. Like I say, I know NOTHING. Someone please educate me. If you're reply is long, e-mail me off-list since this topic is mostly OT. keith.darwin (dit-dah dah) goodrich.com 73! - Keith N1AS - - K2 5411.ssb.100 - _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Keith, I think your assumptions are pretty close to the mark. 6 is
mostly closed except during the summer months when there are occasional sporadic-E openings giving 59++ contacts over distances up to 1,000 miles (sometimes more, with double-hop) even when using low power. As the name suggests, these openings are completely unpredictable, except they occur during a season of a couple of months or so centered around mid-June, and more often than not occur during the day when most people are at work. They are great fun when you catch one, though. The number of sporadic-E openings in a year doesn't seem much affected by the solar cycle. Regular openings like you get on the lower bands obviously are, but the MUF is rarely high enough to support 6m propagation even during the solar maximum, so even when 10m may be workable, 6m often is not. You do have to be dedicated and watch for such openings to catch them, even more than for sporadic-E. The same effort put in to 10m probably would produce more QSOs, though I've often found 6m busy during a Sporadic-E opening when 10m is dead. That may be because 6m has its own dedicated fans, many of whom only work VHF. To them, the kind of distances workable via Sporadic-E are DX, whereas to the HF DXer they are short skip, local and not very interesting. -- Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392 K3 s/n: ??? G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com On 9/27/07, Darwin, Keith <[hidden email]> wrote: > This relates to my consideration of purchasing a K3. > > I know NOTHING about 6 meters. I'm an HF op who does CW and some SSB. > What I believe about 6 meters comes from my (limited) experience on 10 > meters. I'm expecting that 6 is mostly closed but has occasional > openings, provided you're not at a sunspot low. I'm assuming the > successful 6 meter operator has to be watching propagation and has to > pick their operating time. I assume it is a hit or miss band and that > you don't have any fun up there unless you put in the time and happen to > catch it when it is open. I'm assuming the same effort put into to 10 > meters would produce more QSOs. Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
RE: 6 meters - need info (OT?)
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In reply to this post by Darwin, Keith
I also don't know anything about 6 meters, but heard the broadcast
engineers over in Philadelphia used it and had a repeater on it. Maybe it can work like CB over short range? The 756 pro had 6 meters I think, but I never tried it, I don't have any short antenna's for 10, 11, or 6 meters, and never hear anything up there when I listen on the long antenna's. There is also a LOT of bandwidth to tune to listen for any signals... Even 15 seems dead, I remember making a lot of contacts on 15 with my hw7, I even put up a 3 element 15 meter beam, what fun working NJ to Wyoming solid copy on 3 watts. Its all the sunspot cycle I suppose....or will people forget those bands and they will be empty even if open? Brett N2DTS > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Darwin, Keith > Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 8:15 AM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: [Elecraft] 6 meters - need info (OT?) > > This relates to my consideration of purchasing a K3. > > I know NOTHING about 6 meters. I'm an HF op who does CW and some SSB. > What I believe about 6 meters comes from my (limited) experience on 10 > meters. I'm expecting that 6 is mostly closed but has occasional > openings, provided you're not at a sunspot low. I'm assuming the > successful 6 meter operator has to be watching propagation and has to > pick their operating time. I assume it is a hit or miss band and that > you don't have any fun up there unless you put in the time > and happen to > catch it when it is open. I'm assuming the same effort put into to 10 > meters would produce more QSOs. > > Like I say, I know NOTHING. Someone please educate me. If > you're reply > is long, e-mail me off-list since this topic is mostly OT. > > keith.darwin (dit-dah dah) goodrich.com > > 73! > > - Keith N1AS - > - K2 5411.ssb.100 - > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Julian, G4ILO
There is nothing like working Europe on 6M when such an opening
results here in New England. I will likely always have 6M capability in the shack, it is a fun band. There can be openings in the Winter-time but they are much, much more rare than the summer time. -- JT Croteau, N1ESE - Manchester, NH (FN42gx) _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Darwin, Keith
WARNING! 6 meters is addicitive! Once you work an E opening you will be
hooked for life. You have received a lot of good info on 6 already. I will not repeat it. Chasing grid squares is a lot of fun. You have several interesting propagation modes on 6. Meteor scatter sproadic e tropospheric ducting All of these produce some significant openings. The apparent randomness of the openings is why 6 is refered to as the "Magic Band" (IMHO). I have worked into europe with a dipole and 100 watts (cw & ssb) from EL29lm (Houston, TX) as well as 38 states! Good luck, Robie - AJ4F ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darwin, Keith" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 7:14 AM Subject: [Elecraft] 6 meters - need info (OT?) > This relates to my consideration of purchasing a K3. > > I know NOTHING about 6 meters. I'm an HF op who does CW and some SSB. > What I believe about 6 meters comes from my (limited) experience on 10 > meters. I'm expecting that 6 is mostly closed but has occasional > openings, provided you're not at a sunspot low. I'm assuming the > successful 6 meter operator has to be watching propagation and has to > pick their operating time. I assume it is a hit or miss band and that > you don't have any fun up there unless you put in the time and happen to > catch it when it is open. I'm assuming the same effort put into to 10 > meters would produce more QSOs. > > Like I say, I know NOTHING. Someone please educate me. If you're reply > is long, e-mail me off-list since this topic is mostly OT. > > keith.darwin (dit-dah dah) goodrich.com > > 73! > > - Keith N1AS - > - K2 5411.ssb.100 - > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by JT Croteau
To get an idea of when 6M may be open, keep an eye on
TV channel 2 or 3. My satellite receiver feeds the house distribution system on Ch 3 and there's sometimes enough signal from distant Ch 3 TV stations to QRM the satellite receiver's output. Switching to Ch 2 usually shows dueling TV signals. Six tends to peak near the Spring and Fall equinox because of the earth's tilting towards the sun at these times. Tip: Knowing your grid square ia a must!! (:-)) 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP [hidden email] or [hidden email] _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Robie Elms
And much more.....
Don't forget Aurora Auroral E Ionoscatter F2 And mixed mode! 6 is HIGHLY addictive!!! >From GM I ran 2 x 7 ele long yagis and 400w and regularly used to work 100-150 + US stns during F2 openings! Many using dipoles and 100w inside rooms! I am small fry - 138 countries on the band but many of the big guys are 200 countries+ And you can work some real DX - JA/VK etc In terms of openings - SpE can be kind of hit and miss but many opening such as F2, Au, AuE, Iono etc you can predict with some skills on the band. Best place to see what is happening is on the UK six metre pages UKSMG Have fun but be warned its very addictive and once tried you wont want to give it up!!!! 73 Simon GM4PLM/DL4PLM Simon Lewis GM4PLM/DL4PLM http://www.dl4plm.net -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robie Elms Sent: Donnerstag, 27. September 2007 15:24 To: Darwin, Keith; [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6 meters - need info (OT?) WARNING! 6 meters is addicitive! Once you work an E opening you will be hooked for life. You have received a lot of good info on 6 already. I will not repeat it. Chasing grid squares is a lot of fun. You have several interesting propagation modes on 6. Meteor scatter sproadic e tropospheric ducting All of these produce some significant openings. The apparent randomness of the openings is why 6 is refered to as the "Magic Band" (IMHO). I have worked into europe with a dipole and 100 watts (cw & ssb) from EL29lm (Houston, TX) as well as 38 states! Good luck, Robie - AJ4F ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darwin, Keith" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 7:14 AM Subject: [Elecraft] 6 meters - need info (OT?) > This relates to my consideration of purchasing a K3. > > I know NOTHING about 6 meters. I'm an HF op who does CW and some SSB. > What I believe about 6 meters comes from my (limited) experience on 10 > meters. I'm expecting that 6 is mostly closed but has occasional > openings, provided you're not at a sunspot low. I'm assuming the > successful 6 meter operator has to be watching propagation and has to > pick their operating time. I assume it is a hit or miss band and that > you don't have any fun up there unless you put in the time and happen > to catch it when it is open. I'm assuming the same effort put into to > 10 meters would produce more QSOs. > > Like I say, I know NOTHING. Someone please educate me. If you're > reply is long, e-mail me off-list since this topic is mostly OT. > > keith.darwin (dit-dah dah) goodrich.com > > 73! > > - Keith N1AS - > - K2 5411.ssb.100 - _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Don't forget, we have a 6M Sprint coming up on October 20th.
http://svhfs.org/fall_sprint_rules.htm Activity is historically sparse for this contest, only 17 logs were submitted in 2006. However, that's no excuse to not get on the air and make some noise. I'll be on with my puny 20W from the XV50 with no expectations other than to make at least one QSO. If more, all the better. -- JT Croteau, N1ESE - Manchester, NH (FN42gx) _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Julian, G4ILO
Julian G4ILO wrote:
> Regular openings like you get on the lower bands > obviously are, but the MUF is rarely high enough to support 6m > propagation even during the solar maximum, The biggest recorded solar maximum in history occurred in 1957. A friend of mine had built a little crystal-controlled 6 meter AM transmitter whose final had an INPUT of around 10 watts, and a sloppy yagi up about 15 feet. One afternoon we sat in his basement and worked station after station all over the US. The band was full of signals and hetrodynes. It sounded like 40 or 75 meters. Who knows, maybe it will happen again in a few years? -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: 6 meters - need info (OT?)
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In reply to this post by Ken Kopp
Ken Kopp wrote:
> Six tends to peak near the Spring and Fall equinox because > of the earth's tilting towards the sun at these times. Probably a typo, but should be corrected. :-) 6M sporadic-E propagation peaks around the SOLSTICES (June and December), not the equinoxes. There is rarely ever any sporadic-E propagation around the equinoxes. The summer Es season in North America typically runs from mid-May through mid-August, with the southeast US getting some early sporadic-E openings by late April. The winter Es season, in which the openings are typically less numerous and weaker than during summer, extends from roughly late November through mid-January. Sporadic-E can occur at any time, but it is extremely rare from mid-February through mid-April and from mid-September through mid-November in North America. There is a tremendous amount to be learned about 6 meter propagation. It is the only band we have where ALL known radio propagation modes (and probably a few unknown ones) can be experienced at one point or another. It is truly a mix of HF and VHF characteristics. Bill / W5WVO DM65 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Interesting info about 6M. I am presently using the XV50 with my K2. Had a lot of fun in June working many Europeans and Caribbean stations. Can't wait till I get my K3 with a little more power on that band. Now I need to get an XV144. I do have a question for you 6M aficionados. Hopefully this isn't too far off the normal intent of this reflector. I have 6 el at 82'. I can also put a 6 el beam at 47'. HFTA says that will help me. My questions are: - I have heard a rumor that 6M beams don't work too well when side-mounted. Is this true? - Since I am not yet familiar with all the types of propagation on 6M, are there rules of thumb for high and low antennas? Do you think I am too high at 47' and 82'? Do I need a lower antenna also like on 10M for when the sunspots are high again? If this is too far off normal topics on this band, please respond directly. Tnx N2TK, Tony #3481 K2 Batch #1 K3 -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill W5WVO Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 12:16 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6 meters - need info (OT?) Ken Kopp wrote: > Six tends to peak near the Spring and Fall equinox because > of the earth's tilting towards the sun at these times. Probably a typo, but should be corrected. :-) 6M sporadic-E propagation peaks around the SOLSTICES (June and December), not the equinoxes. There is rarely ever any sporadic-E propagation around the equinoxes. The summer Es season in North America typically runs from mid-May through mid-August, with the southeast US getting some early sporadic-E openings by late April. The winter Es season, in which the openings are typically less numerous and weaker than during summer, extends from roughly late November through mid-January. Sporadic-E can occur at any time, but it is extremely rare from mid-February through mid-April and from mid-September through mid-November in North America. There is a tremendous amount to be learned about 6 meter propagation. It is the only band we have where ALL known radio propagation modes (and probably a few unknown ones) can be experienced at one point or another. It is truly a mix of HF and VHF characteristics. Bill / W5WVO DM65 ______________________________________________2 Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: 6 meters - need info (OT?)
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Hi Tony,
Good to hear you are using HFTA. Excellent tool. It's all about takeoff angle, which is determined by (a) the kind of antenna(s) you are using, (b) their height above ground, (c) the terrain characteristics, and (d) frequency. What takeoff angle you need is in turn dictated by the kind of propagation you are using and the path distance. A single 6M yagi at 82' will have several deep nulls in its elevation profile, as HFTA is undoubtedly telling you. For sporadic-E propagation, you will want to be able to cover takeoff angles from 0 up through around 16 or 18 degrees elevation, which will cover single-hop path lengths from the theoretical maximum single-hop distance (1400-1450 miles) down to around 350-400 miles. You need those higher takeoff angles mostly for sporadic-E propagation. When the F2 comes back in four or five years, it is unlikely that you will need a takeoff angle much higher than 0 degrees because the band will be at or just below the F2 MUF, placing the critical angle of refraction close to the visible horizon. It will be an extremely rare (though not impossible) occurrence to have an F2 path on 6M with shorter than the maximum possible skip distance. Shorter skip is likely to be sporadic-E, which can and does coexist with F2 during solar maxima. Therefore, if you have no interest in working grid squares over shorter path distances of 400-1000 miles or so (plus any multi-hop Es paths that may be comprised of these shorter hops), you needn't worry about covering the higher takeoff angles. But that's really where most of the fun is on 6M IMHO, and to cover all the bases for sporadic-E, you definitely need to have a solution for covering those takeoff angles. This can be done either through phasing of stacked arrays, as modeled in HFTA, and/or by placing one or more antennas closer to ground. Just trust HFTA to give you the best configuration for what you want to do. Bill / W5WVO N2TK, Tony wrote: > Interesting info about 6M. I am presently using the XV50 with my K2. > Had a lot of fun in June working many Europeans and Caribbean > stations. Can't wait till I get my K3 with a little more power on > that band. Now I need to get an XV144. > > I do have a question for you 6M aficionados. Hopefully this isn't too > far off the normal intent of this reflector. I have 6 el at 82'. I > can also put a 6 el beam at 47'. HFTA says that will help me. > My questions are: > - I have heard a rumor that 6M beams don't work too well when > side-mounted. Is this true? > - Since I am not yet familiar with all the types of propagation on > 6M, are there rules of thumb for high and low antennas? Do you think > I am too high at 47' and 82'? Do I need a lower antenna also like on > 10M for when the sunspots are high again? > > If this is too far off normal topics on this band, please respond > directly. > > Tnx > N2TK, Tony > #3481 K2 > Batch #1 K3 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill W5WVO > Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 12:16 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6 meters - need info (OT?) > > Ken Kopp wrote: > >> Six tends to peak near the Spring and Fall equinox because >> of the earth's tilting towards the sun at these times. > > Probably a typo, but should be corrected. :-) 6M sporadic-E > propagation peaks around the SOLSTICES (June and December), not the > equinoxes. There is rarely ever any sporadic-E propagation around the > equinoxes. > > The summer Es season in North America typically runs from mid-May > through mid-August, with the southeast US getting some early > sporadic-E openings by late April. The winter Es season, in which the > openings are typically less numerous and weaker than during summer, > extends from roughly late November through mid-January. Sporadic-E > can occur at any time, but it is extremely rare from mid-February > through mid-April and from mid-September through mid-November in > North America. > > There is a tremendous amount to be learned about 6 meter propagation. > It is the only band we have where ALL known radio propagation modes > (and probably a > few unknown ones) can be experienced at one point or another. It is > truly a mix of HF and VHF characteristics. > > Bill / W5WVO > DM65 > > ______________________________________________2 > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: 6 meters - need info (OT?)
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A link to a ton of 6 meter stuff
http://6mt.com/6tech.htm George NE2I _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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