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On this date, 5 years ago Elecraft gave formal announcement of the
impending release of the Elecraft K3 HF Transceiver. While the leadership at Elecraft had been toiling away for about a decade developing HF products, April 27, 2007 was a fulcrum date where the development of products for a broad audience became apparent. In the years since then, Elecraft has developed the K-Line, a complimentary set of products which can have appeal to a wide range of HF enthusiasts. Accessories and enhancements continue to be developed. As well, Elecraft is now well recognized and respected throughout the world of amateur radio for its development of high performance products. No longer are choices limited to 'The Big Three' and a few others. Elecraft is a substantial, U.S. based producer of amateur radio products with advanced features that provide good value in the mid-range of pricing of equipment along with a variety of well thought out kits and more that allow for budget-based involvement in our hobby. It is without doubt there are interesting stories to be told from the five years since 2007. As well, there are probably plenty from the earlier years. It's been a good about 15 years and a stellar 5 years. I invite the Elecraft staff and development team members to offer perhaps brief comment as appropriate on their roles as well as interesting experiences or difficulties overcome along the path. This celebration is in your honor! 73, Dick - KA5KKT ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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If Ralph Stayer could write an article about his sausage factory that
made it into the Harvard Business Review and became the basis for case studies in business schools for many years...imagine the lessons that could be passed on by Eric and Wayne -- innovation, customer service and satisfaction, quality, efficiency, communication, utilizing customers' feedback, integrity...and they obviously know a thing or two about treating their employees well enough so that talking to one of them makes one feel more like its a conversation with a company owner ;) (FYI, the sausage company cited is Johnsonville Sausage. And they *still* sell great beer brats for the grill) 73, Stan WB2LQF KX1 #2411 K1#2994 K2# 6980 K3#5244 KX3 (on order) K9 #1 (Cocoa the Chihuahua) Everything is QRP, even the dog. On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 7:37 AM, Edward Dickinson III wrote: without doubt there are interesting stories to be told from > the five years since 2007. As well, there are probably plenty from > the > earlier years. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Dick Dickinson
Elecraft would be a great case study for graduate level business students. Way back in the '70's when I was studying for my MBA we used Winnebago as a case study but Elecraft is much, much more interesting plus being a heck of a lot more positive then learning how Winnebago handled the fuel cost crisis of the 70's.
73 Bill NZ0T |
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In reply to this post by Dick Dickinson
Dick,
Thanks for this little anniversary present. It has been a bit of a wild ride over the past five years. It may appear that our product strategy has been carefully premeditated. Truth is, we've just designed what we, as operators, really wanted for ourselves. Fortunately for Elecraft, the radios and accessories we've envisioned have appealed to others as well. Another important factor: we've attracted some very talented and motivated engineers. They share our enthusiasm for the radio art, and enjoy the challenge of designing outside-the-box products. Above all, we have the world's greatest customers. This stems in part from our long-time focus on kits. Kit-building is educational for individuals, but also creates legions of experts who take a lot of pride in helping new builders with both construction and operation. 73, Wayne N6KR Edward Dickinson III wrote: > On this date, 5 years ago Elecraft gave formal announcement of the > impending release of the Elecraft K3 HF Transceiver. While the > leadership > at Elecraft had been toiling away for about a decade developing HF > products, > April 27, 2007 was a fulcrum date where the development of products > for a > broad audience became apparent. > > In the years since then, Elecraft has developed the K-Line, a > complimentary set of products which can have appeal to a wide range > of HF > enthusiasts..... ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by NZ0T
Let's put solar panels on the roofs of those Winnebagos and turn them
into hybrids. Wayne On Apr 27, 2012, at 8:34 AM, NZ0T wrote: > Elecraft would be a great case study for graduate level business > students. > Way back in the '70's when I was studying for my MBA we used > Winnebago as a > case study but Elecraft is much, much more interesting plus being a > heck of > a lot more positive then learning how Winnebago handled the fuel > cost crisis > of the 70's. > > 73 Bill NZ0T > > -- > View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/A-Success-Story-tp7505878p7506536.html > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by wayne burdick
Wayne,
I built a K2, KX1, and a few other things. The K2 was built way before the K3 may have been a gleam in your eye, however I see no reference to that spectacular piece of radio gear. It may not have had the gee whiz factor of the K3, but let me tell you, on a Field Day site with lots of radios going at once, it would outperform the competition. As far as I'm concerned, Elecraft made it at that point; the K3 just make the company even more competitive in a flashy environment. No question about it Elecraft has become world competitor in the radio world, and may be a leader in the world of what you can put into a small package and have it mean something. I have no idea where you can go from here, but wherever it is, I suspect it will be interesting. Vy 73, Barry K3NDM On 4/27/2012 11:48 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote: > Dick, > > Thanks for this little anniversary present. It has been a bit of a > wild ride over the past five years. > > It may appear that our product strategy has been carefully > premeditated. Truth is, we've just designed what we, as operators, > really wanted for ourselves. Fortunately for Elecraft, the radios and > accessories we've envisioned have appealed to others as well. > > Another important factor: we've attracted some very talented and > motivated engineers. They share our enthusiasm for the radio art, and > enjoy the challenge of designing outside-the-box products. > > Above all, we have the world's greatest customers. This stems in part > from our long-time focus on kits. Kit-building is educational for > individuals, but also creates legions of experts who take a lot of > pride in helping new builders with both construction and operation. > > 73, > Wayne > N6KR > > > Edward Dickinson III wrote: > >> On this date, 5 years ago Elecraft gave formal announcement of the >> impending release of the Elecraft K3 HF Transceiver. While the >> leadership >> at Elecraft had been toiling away for about a decade developing HF >> products, >> April 27, 2007 was a fulcrum date where the development of products >> for a >> broad audience became apparent. >> >> In the years since then, Elecraft has developed the K-Line, a >> complimentary set of products which can have appeal to a wide range >> of HF >> enthusiasts..... > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by wayne burdick
It is a pleasure supporting a great company with great people with great
products. Like many I try to support USA companies when at all possible. Elecraft makes this a no brainer. I love my K3's, KPA500, P3 and more! Thanks for building superior products at reasonable prices. It was fun to build my equipment with my son. I think it creates a special bond between builder and radio. I wish there were more projects of similar quality in the ham market place. Keep up the fantastic work! Mike W0MU W0MU-1 CC Cluster w0mu.net On 4/27/2012 9:48 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote: > Dick, > > Thanks for this little anniversary present. It has been a bit of a > wild ride over the past five years. > > It may appear that our product strategy has been carefully > premeditated. Truth is, we've just designed what we, as operators, > really wanted for ourselves. Fortunately for Elecraft, the radios and > accessories we've envisioned have appealed to others as well. > > Another important factor: we've attracted some very talented and > motivated engineers. They share our enthusiasm for the radio art, and > enjoy the challenge of designing outside-the-box products. > > Above all, we have the world's greatest customers. This stems in part > from our long-time focus on kits. Kit-building is educational for > individuals, but also creates legions of experts who take a lot of > pride in helping new builders with both construction and operation. > > 73, > Wayne > N6KR > > > Edward Dickinson III wrote: > >> On this date, 5 years ago Elecraft gave formal announcement of the >> impending release of the Elecraft K3 HF Transceiver. While the >> leadership >> at Elecraft had been toiling away for about a decade developing HF >> products, >> April 27, 2007 was a fulcrum date where the development of products >> for a >> broad audience became apparent. >> >> In the years since then, Elecraft has developed the K-Line, a >> complimentary set of products which can have appeal to a wide range >> of HF >> enthusiasts..... > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Dick Dickinson
I've only been an Elecraft customer just over 18 months, and, yes, the
K3 was my initial purchase. It has more than satisfied my operational needs. The P3 purchased a bit over 6 months ago has been icing on the cake. Both products are well thought out and work flawlessly together. Such is the testament of the passion that I think Wayne and Eric have brought to their enterprise and to amateur radio. Certainly, the business case study might be interesting, but if it leaves out the passion of the principles, its lessons will be lost on the students. Conversely, passion can take a company off track and down blind alleys. Clearly, Wayne and Eric have employed good business sense along with their passion and avoided such a trap. REgardless, I wish Wayne, Eric, and all at Elecraft yesrs of continued success and thanks for the fine experience. 73, de Nate, N0NB >> -- "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true." Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by NZ0T
Five years ago - almost to the day - I attended my first (and, thus far,
only) DX convention in Visalia. Barely a week or two before heading for the convention, I had delivered my unbuilt K2 kit to W4DAS for construction. I saw on the Elecraft web site that the visually impaired hams had volunteers for building the radio. I didn't qualify for that - I was just frightened of what I could do with a soldering iron! So, I drove down to Doug's place of work and dropped everything off, including some funds to pay for the construction. When I got to Visalia, it wasn't very long until I wandered into the room where most of the vendors had set up shop. Lo and behold, there was the K3. Damn! Picked up a brochure and wandered away, disgruntled and disappointed that my brand-new K2 was already obsolete. Fast forward.... Obviously, my K2 was *not* rendered obsolete. When I returned from the trip, I drove back down the turnpike to Doug's place and picked up my newly built K2. Doug was very much (and apparently still is) an Elecraft "groupie" (I write that as a complimentary term) and can often be found at ham gatherings somewhere in or around the Elecraft booth. He asked me if I had seen the new K3. I expressed my chagrin that I barely got my K2 and here was the K3. My analysis was that the K2 looked very much like it was built from a kit, while the K3 looked very much like a professionally manufactured rig. Needless to say, it wasn't very long before the specs (and the slobbering began!) convinced many users the K3 was the state-of-the-art rig for many of them. Events following that point are well-known. It wasn't too long before I also ordered my K3 (a friend semi-shamed me into ordering the kit - and I was glad he did!) and found a buyer for my K2 - wish I hadn't, but.... Like my friend, Doug, from that point I've been an Elecraft "drink the kool-aid" guy. Despite five terrific years having elapsed between the K3 and the KX3, one can only hope it's just another chapter in a long, long book. To Wayne, Eric and a great staff, it's been a great ride and the amusement park is still growing! Art - N4PJ On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:34 AM, NZ0T <[hidden email]> wrote: > Elecraft would be a great case study for graduate level business students. > Way back in the '70's when I was studying for my MBA we used Winnebago as a > case study but Elecraft is much, much more interesting plus being a heck of > a lot more positive then learning how Winnebago handled the fuel cost > crisis > of the 70's. > > 73 Bill NZ0T > > -- > View this message in context: > http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/A-Success-Story-tp7505878p7506536.html > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by wayne burdick
It may not have begun this way intentionally, but Elecraft has morphed into a "design/build" company, with its customers happily tagging along as unpaid "consultants".
Congratulations guys! Terry, W0FM -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Burdick [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 10:48 AM To: Edward Dickinson III Cc: 'Elecraft Reflector ' Subject: Re: [Elecraft] A Success Story Dick, Thanks for this little anniversary present. It has been a bit of a wild ride over the past five years. It may appear that our product strategy has been carefully premeditated. Truth is, we've just designed what we, as operators, really wanted for ourselves. Fortunately for Elecraft, the radios and accessories we've envisioned have appealed to others as well. Another important factor: we've attracted some very talented and motivated engineers. They share our enthusiasm for the radio art, and enjoy the challenge of designing outside-the-box products. Above all, we have the world's greatest customers. This stems in part from our long-time focus on kits. Kit-building is educational for individuals, but also creates legions of experts who take a lot of pride in helping new builders with both construction and operation. 73, Wayne N6KR ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by NZ0T
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 10:34 AM, NZ0T <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Elecraft would be a great case study for graduate level business > students... =========== As a sometime grad-school business prof, I often tend to think about case studies of companies I do business with. But in the case of Elecraft, the case study wouldn't have enough sturm und drang. It's a great story, and continues to be a source of pride for Elecraft's customers, as well as for those who have built this most excellent company. But what made Elecraft succeed you can't teach or learn in business school: they simply designed products that provide a superior user experience and a better value proposition. Heck, any company can succeed if they can do that -- no strategy required! There is a lot to be learned from the ups and downs of companies battling in niche markets like that for ham radio gear, but Elecraft has dodged the bullets and avoided the mis-steps that make a case study compelling. The kind of case that teaches the students a lot comes from the opposite end of the management spectrum. To illustrate; here's a quote that I used in a class presentation last year: *βIt is hard for us, without being flippant, to even see a scenario within any kind of realm of reason that would see us losing one dollar in any of those transactions.β **β Joseph J. Cassano, former head of the CDS group at A.I.G., August 2007* * * This summarizes in one sentence one of the most expensive management blunders in all U.S. corporate history, and offers a rich banquet of learning possibilities for the budding MBAs. Tony KT0NY -- http://www.isb.edu/faculty/facultydir.aspx?ddlFaculty=352 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Yes, Elecraft products are tops but in my mind the case study would be about the excellent customer service that Elecraft provides. I have dealt with very few organizations that have been as responsive and helpful as Elecraft and IMHO that ability to respond to customers is just as important as the products themselves. One of my first bosses many years ago always said that every company makes mistakes - it's how they respond to those mistakes that makes all the difference.
Elecraft makes very few mistakes in the first place but when they do the response is cheerful, immediate and always helpful. I don't know if it's the highly decentralized (but highly communicative via the internet) organization or just a top-down attitude but I think many organizations could learn a lot by studying Elecraft. 73 Bill NZ0T P.S. Does this post get me anything free or at a dep discount ?
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You might not get acknowledgment or a freebee.
I would echo your comments. It is customer service with the focus on providing a product which we want. You cannot beat Elecraft. I have yet to find superior customer service like theirs anywhere. I hope this not a signal for them to back off... :-). Wayne and Eric are our kind of guys (at least I hope they include us). They are small business oriented and have been very involved in the design and production of all products. They are not the Gates or Jobs of this world trying to make a super $. I think Wayne's post explains their take on what they love to do. It's not about gouging for $'s but the enjoyment of what one does. Wayne's history is full of his contribution to our hobby. My wilderness radio back in the late 90' is how I found him and the K2. His partnership with Eric and the entire team make this whole thing run so well. Their expansion of products, I am sure, has probably driven them a little hard. But, they actually play with their new inventions/toys. Eric is our high power man. He called me to give a heads up on an issue with my THP HL-2.5KFX. That to me was extraordinary. 73, Bill K9YEQ -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of NZ0T Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 3:19 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] A Success Story Yes, Elecraft products are tops but in my mind the case study would be about the excellent customer service that Elecraft provides. I have dealt with very few organizations that have been as responsive and helpful as Elecraft and IMHO that ability to respond to customers is just as important as the products themselves. One of my first bosses many years ago always said that every company makes mistakes - it's how they respond to those mistakes that makes all the difference. Elecraft makes very few mistakes in the first place but when they do the response is cheerful, immediate and always helpful. I don't know if it's the highly decentralized (but highly communicative via the internet) organization or just a top-down attitude but I think many organizations could learn a lot by studying Elecraft. 73 Bill NZ0T P.S. Does this post get me anything free or at a dep discount ? -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/A-Success-Story-tp7505878p7507311.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Tony Estep
On 4/27/2012 11:38 AM, Tony Estep wrote:
> There is a lot to be learned from the ups and downs of companies battling > in niche markets like that for ham radio gear, but Elecraft has dodged the > bullets and avoided the mis-steps that make a case study compelling. That's because management (in this case, ownership) actually understands the business that they were in, both at the technical and the marketing level. That's contrary to what I hear far too much of in the popular press, and I'm told that the business schools even TEACH their students that you DON'T need to know anything about what a business does to run it. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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That's because modern business schools don't teach leadership and as you say they tell their students they don't have to know the business they are managing. The students have been taught that businesses are run on charts and graphs, so they sit on their fannies and make computer charts and graphs instead of walking out in the shop to get to know the business and the employees. No wonder China has all the manufacturing business now. Industrial engineers have become highly paid accountants and count beans instead of studying work flow, etc. That's my opinion, I could be wrong. Keep up the good work Elecraft. Treat your employees well and take an interest in what they are doing (as you are now) and you will have fun and make a lot of money too. Amateur Radio Operator N5GE ARRL Lifetime Member QCWA Lifetime Member On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 20:16:18 -0700, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote: >That's because management (in this case, ownership) actually understands >the business that they were in, both at the technical and the marketing >level. That's contrary to what I hear far too much of in the popular >press, and I'm told that the business schools even TEACH their students >that you DON'T need to know anything about what a business does to run it. > >73, Jim K9YC >______________________________________________________________ >Elecraft mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:[hidden email] > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by NZ0T
> Elecraft makes very few mistakes in the first place but when they do the
> response is cheerful, immediate and always helpful. OK so where are the firmware fixes for the K3's CW-in-SSB QSK bug, and the CW-during-PTT-release bug? Not exactly an "immediate" response ... 73 Gary ZL2iFB ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Gary,
We have to prioritize implementation of improvements for all products, including the K3. We won't be holding a "vote" like some software companies do, so it's up to us to gauge the impact of each fix. The issues you mentioned have very complex implications for the K3, including the redesign of the firmware's T/R sequencing state-machine. Fortunately, they also affect a relatively small number of operators. A lot of other pending changes have much broader impact. I (and our staff engineers) work closely with customer support to make sure we're maximizing the benefit of our development time. Sorry I can't give you better news on these. 73, wayne N6KR On Apr 28, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Gary Hinson wrote: >> Elecraft makes very few mistakes in the first place but when they >> do the >> response is cheerful, immediate and always helpful. > > OK so where are the firmware fixes for the K3's CW-in-SSB QSK bug, > and the > CW-during-PTT-release bug? Not exactly an "immediate" response ... > > 73 > Gary ZL2iFB > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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