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A helpful review...

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A helpful review...

This link may be of interest to many who have recently been debating a new SDR...it was recently made available to another group I belong to. I'm keeping my K3 but looking forward to purchasing one of these puppies too. I'm sold and the price point is perfect.

http://www.ab4oj.com/icom/ic7300/7300notes.pdf

"We are just an advanced breed of monkeys on a minor planet of a very average star. But we can understand the Universe. That makes us something very special." -Stephen Hawking.

"Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead." -Emily clone circa 2242

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Jim Brown-10

Re: A helpful review...

It has been observed that the author has a reputation as sort of a
spokesman/apologist for ICOM.

73, Jim K9YC

On Sun,5/1/2016 9:16 AM, Tom Fitzgerald via Elecraft wrote:
> This link may be of interest to many who have recently been debating a new SDR...it was recently made available to another group I belong to. I'm keeping my K3 but looking forward to purchasing one of these puppies too. I'm sold and the price point is perfect.
>
> http://www.ab4oj.com/icom/ic7300/7300notes.pdf

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bhemmis

Re: A helpful review...

Correct but the little box scores well in Rob Sherwood’s tests (considering its price) and the eHam opinions (reviews) are great. It’s no K3 but looks like a lot of fun to play with. Glad to see one of the big 3 come out with something new at a great price.
73, Brian K3USC

> On May 1, 2016, at 12:41 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> It has been observed that the author has a reputation as sort of a spokesman/apologist for ICOM.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On Sun,5/1/2016 9:16 AM, Tom Fitzgerald via Elecraft wrote:
>> This link may be of interest to many who have recently been debating a new SDR...it was recently made available to another group I belong to. I'm keeping my K3 but looking forward to purchasing one of these puppies too. I'm sold and the price point is perfect.
>>
>> http://www.ab4oj.com/icom/ic7300/7300notes.pdf
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
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EUGENE GABRY

Re: A helpful review...

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

"Sort of". You're being to kind today Jim. ;) ;)

73 Gene, N9TF

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim
Brown
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2016 11:42 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] A helpful review...

It has been observed that the author has a reputation as sort of a
spokesman/apologist for ICOM.

73, Jim K9YC

On Sun,5/1/2016 9:16 AM, Tom Fitzgerald via Elecraft wrote:
> This link may be of interest to many who have recently been debating a new
SDR...it was recently made available to another group I belong to. I'm
keeping my K3 but looking forward to purchasing one of these puppies too.
I'm sold and the price point is perfect.
>
> http://www.ab4oj.com/icom/ic7300/7300notes.pdf

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Phil Wheeler-2

Re: A helpful review...

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Jim,

It's good Icom has at least one of those. Elecraft
has so many of us :-)

73, Phil W7OX

On 5/1/16 9:41 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

> It has been observed that the author has a
> reputation as sort of a spokesman/apologist for
> ICOM.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On Sun,5/1/2016 9:16 AM, Tom Fitzgerald via
> Elecraft wrote:
>> This link may be of interest to many who have
>> recently been debating a new SDR...it was
>> recently made available to another group I
>> belong to. I'm keeping my K3 but looking
>> forward to purchasing one of these puppies too.
>> I'm sold and the price point is perfect.
>>
>> http://www.ab4oj.com/icom/ic7300/7300notes.pdf

Elecraft mailing list

Re: A helpful review...

Phil, I could not have said it any better!

((((73)))) Milverton /W9MMS.

From: Phil Wheeler <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, May 1, 2016 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] A helpful review...

Jim,

It's good Icom has at least one of those. Elecraft
has so many of us :-)

73, Phil W7OX

On 5/1/16 9:41 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

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Guy Olinger K2AV

Re: A helpful review...

In reply to this post by EUGENE GABRY

I had a nastier response which I decided to deep six since it was Sunday.

But just one thing, if one went into Macy's and started hanging up Belk's
posters, how would that be received? Rude, stupid, trespassing, illegal,
what? I wonder if the same post also went to the Kenwood and Yaesu
reflectors or it was just us that were "blessed"?

My RELIABLE (caps intended) source of dope on new rigs comes from other
PVRC (Potomac Valley Radio Club) membership who in contesting tend to use
the rigs harshly. This is often discussed on the PVRC reflector, where no
one expects commentary to center on any particular brand or age of rig. I
have found the aggregate experience of PVRC folk on rigs to be accurate in
the extreme, with never a pulled punch, particularly in the range of
reactions to a given rig, where the RANGE of reaction is highly
informative. I also get to go visit and try the rigs out if I want. We
also have one soul on that reflector who rarely keeps a rig more than three
months, and that running soap opera is pretty informative.

Personally, I don't need Icom information here, don't want Icom information
here, not trusting of Icom information here since some of it is obviously
trolling. I have a really good place to get such if I want, that isn't
hanging Belk's posters in Macy's. Here, I'm mostly looking for Elecraft
owners that need some help off line.

73, Guy.

On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Gene Gabry <[hidden email]> wrote:

> "Sort of". You're being to kind today Jim. ;) ;)
>
> 73 Gene, N9TF
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim
> Brown
> Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2016 11:42 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] A helpful review...
>
> It has been observed that the author has a reputation as sort of a
> spokesman/apologist for ICOM.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On Sun,5/1/2016 9:16 AM, Tom Fitzgerald via Elecraft wrote:
> > This link may be of interest to many who have recently been debating a
> new
> SDR...it was recently made available to another group I belong to. I'm
> keeping my K3 but looking forward to purchasing one of these puppies too.
> I'm sold and the price point is perfect.
> >
> > http://www.ab4oj.com/icom/ic7300/7300notes.pdf
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message
> delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>
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>

EricJ

Re: A helpful review...

Using a rig harshly in a particular activity isn't necessarily a good
indication of its capabilities in activities where that isn't how it is
used. Not everyone is a serious contester or DX'er, though they are well
represented on this reflector. What's good on the racetrack may not be
the best suited to the road.

I can't see an IC-7300 in my future, but it seems to be of interest to a
lot of hams who ordinarily wouldn't be interested in an entry level rig.
But then I can't yet see a K3s in my future either for the kind of
operating I do. My K2's have no shortcomings that interfere with my
ability to enjoy a radio the way I want to enjoy it. My K1 answers MOST
of those needs. hi.

Eric KE6US

On 5/1/2016 1:32 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
> My RELIABLE (caps intended) source of dope on new rigs comes from other
> PVRC (Potomac Valley Radio Club) membership who in contesting tend to use
> the rigs harshly.
>
> 73, Guy.
>

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Kevin Stover

Re: A helpful review...

In reply to this post by Guy Olinger K2AV

Exactly.

How do you suppose the readers of other manufacturers mail list/forums
would react if they had to deal with Elecraft advertisements all the
times? Not well I assure you.

I always thought this mail list was for owners of Elecraft gear or
potential owners of Elecraft gear to congregate and talk about their
Elecraft gear, their experiences using it and if needs be some advice in
repairing/configuring same. The advertisements are happening way to
often now.

Instead of telling me to delete the posts how about telling the
IcoYaeKen fan boys to post their troll advertisements on their own
list/forum?

On 5/1/2016 3:32 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

> I had a nastier response which I decided to deep six since it was Sunday.
>
> But just one thing, if one went into Macy's and started hanging up Belk's
> posters, how would that be received? Rude, stupid, trespassing, illegal,
> what? I wonder if the same post also went to the Kenwood and Yaesu
> reflectors or it was just us that were "blessed"?
>
> My RELIABLE (caps intended) source of dope on new rigs comes from other
> PVRC (Potomac Valley Radio Club) membership who in contesting tend to use
> the rigs harshly. This is often discussed on the PVRC reflector, where no
> one expects commentary to center on any particular brand or age of rig. I
> have found the aggregate experience of PVRC folk on rigs to be accurate in
> the extreme, with never a pulled punch, particularly in the range of
> reactions to a given rig, where the RANGE of reaction is highly
> informative. I also get to go visit and try the rigs out if I want. We
> also have one soul on that reflector who rarely keeps a rig more than three
> months, and that running soap opera is pretty informative.
>
> Personally, I don't need Icom information here, don't want Icom information
> here, not trusting of Icom information here since some of it is obviously
> trolling. I have a really good place to get such if I want, that isn't
> hanging Belk's posters in Macy's. Here, I'm mostly looking for Elecraft
> owners that need some help off line.
>
> 73, Guy.
>
> On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Gene Gabry <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> "Sort of". You're being to kind today Jim. ;) ;)
>>
>> 73 Gene, N9TF
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim
>> Brown
>> Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2016 11:42 AM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] A helpful review...
>>
>> It has been observed that the author has a reputation as sort of a
>> spokesman/apologist for ICOM.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>
>> On Sun,5/1/2016 9:16 AM, Tom Fitzgerald via Elecraft wrote:
>>> This link may be of interest to many who have recently been debating a

--
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H
ARRL
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441

---
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Jim Brown-10

Re: A helpful review...

In reply to this post by bhemmis

Rob's tests, which are generally excellent, include MANY different
parameters, but he publishes ONLY the performance of the receivers, and
he has arbitrarily chosen list them in order of only one of those
parameters. For all practical purposes, he does not test transmitters
(which is a good thing -- the one type of test I've seen is done
improperly).

The performance and usefulness of ANY product, including a radio,
depends upon the totality of its characteristics. As the late Richard
Heyser said so well, "trying to describe an audio system using only
frequency response is like trying to write poetry with only one word in
your vocabulary."

73, Jim K9YC

On Sun,5/1/2016 10:43 AM, Brian Hemmis wrote:
> Correct but the little box scores well in Rob Sherwood’s tests (considering its price) and the eHam opinions (reviews) are great.

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alorona

Re: A helpful review...

Ahh, this is right on the mark. How many times have you heard a ham say, "I didn't like Radio X because it didn't have enough close-spaced dynamic range." Me, almost never. Instead, I usually hear that hams have discarded a radio because of a million different reasons like

"bad" or "noisy" audio
fit and feel
buttons too small
kept failing

transmitter caused interference to other radios during a contest

and many other factors, none of which is measured by gurus like Sherwood.

So I totally agree, it's the radio as a whole that matters. It's what comes out of the speaker. it's the sound of the noise. Etc., etc. You've got to get a radio in your hands to get a good idea of it. That's why YouTube videos of receivers being recorded with a camera across the room, and lists of receivers ranked by dynamic range don't mean that much to me.

Al W6LX

>The performance and usefulness of ANY product, including a radio,

>depends upon the totality of its characteristics.

>
>73, Jim K9YC
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Don Wilhelm

Re: A helpful review...

Al,

You are correct for the more usual "casual use". In that arena,
performance does not matter as much. The gut feeling about a radio's
audio or the buttons are the more important to many operators.

But when those operators who are a little more discerning and operate in
DXing and contesting situations, the Sherwood ratings of close-in
blocking dynamic range become the deciding factors in QSO or no-QSO. If
the transceiver is capable of "saddling up" close to a strong station
without that other station taking over the receiver, that factor is
important to those who participate in such operating events.
The ability to avoid receiver overload in crowded band conditions
suddenly becomes the important parameter.

So if you are a casual operator, those Sherwood rankings will not mean
much to you. But if contesting performance is more your 'thing', the
Sherwood rankings will be more important - that is what allows you to
make contacts in the midst of many potentially interfering stations at
close frequencies to your frequency.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/1/2016 6:54 PM, Al Lorona wrote:

> Ahh, this is right on the mark. How many times have you heard a ham say, "I didn't like Radio X because it didn't have enough close-spaced dynamic range." Me, almost never. Instead, I usually hear that hams have discarded a radio because of a million different reasons like
>
>
> "bad" or "noisy" audio
> fit and feel
> buttons too small
> kept failing
>
> transmitter caused interference to other radios during a contest
>
>
> and many other factors, none of which is measured by gurus like Sherwood.
>
> So I totally agree, it's the radio as a whole that matters. It's what comes out of the speaker. it's the sound of the noise. Etc., etc. You've got to get a radio in your hands to get a good idea of it. That's why YouTube videos of receivers being recorded with a camera across the room, and lists of receivers ranked by dynamic range don't mean that much to me.
>
>
> Al W6LX
>
>
>> The performance and usefulness of ANY product, including a radio,
>> depends upon the totality of its characteristics.
>> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Wes Stewart-2

Re: A helpful review...

In reply to this post by Guy Olinger K2AV

Well, I don't know who Belk's is, but livening up our local Macy's wouldn't be a
bad thing.

But I agree, only unbiased Elecraft Kool Aid drinkers should be allowed to post
here, and if they do, it should be only praise to the perfection and superiority
of Elecraft radios.

On 5/1/2016 1:32 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

Phil Wheeler-2

Re: A helpful review...

:-)

On 5/1/16 4:50 PM, Wes wrote:

> But I agree, only unbiased Elecraft Kool Aid
> drinkers should be allowed to post here, and if
> they do, it should be only praise to the
> perfection and superiority of Elecraft radios.
>
>
> On 5/1/2016 1:32 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
>> I had a nastier response which I decided to
>> deep six since it was Sunday.
>>
>> But just one thing, if one went into Macy's and
>> started hanging up Belk's
>> posters, how would that be received? Rude,
>> stupid, trespassing, illegal,
>> what? I wonder if the same post also went to
>> the Kenwood and Yaesu
>> reflectors or it was just us that were "blessed"?
>>
>> My RELIABLE (caps intended) source of dope on
>> new rigs comes from other
>> PVRC (Potomac Valley Radio Club) membership who
>> in contesting tend to use
>> the rigs harshly. This is often discussed on
>> the PVRC reflector, where no
>> one expects commentary to center on any
>> particular brand or age of rig. I
>> have found the aggregate experience of PVRC
>> folk on rigs to be accurate in
>> the extreme, with never a pulled punch,
>> particularly in the range of
>> reactions to a given rig, where the RANGE of
>> reaction is highly
>> informative. I also get to go visit and try
>> the rigs out if I want. We
>> also have one soul on that reflector who rarely
>> keeps a rig more than three
>> months, and that running soap opera is pretty
>> informative.
>>
>> Personally, I don't need Icom information here,
>> don't want Icom information
>> here, not trusting of Icom information here
>> since some of it is obviously
>> trolling. I have a really good place to get
>> such if I want, that isn't
>> hanging Belk's posters in Macy's. Here, I'm
>> mostly looking for Elecraft
>> owners that need some help off line.
>>
>> 73, Guy.

Peter Scovell

A helpful review...

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Thanks Tom.

I also find Adam's reviews very helpful as well as his work on advancing
the NPR test method to bridge the legacy world (K3, etc) to the new
family of DDC/DUC SDR transceivers.

I have found the odd comments by some other readers of this mailing list
somewhat parochial in outlook in that they seem to want to see and hear
only items relating to Elecraft gear and not be informed of other new
and exciting developments occurring in our hobby. I have built and own
many fine (and not so fine) Elecraft radios and test gear so in the
main, I have a great respect for Elecraft equipment but not at the
exclusion of other brands. I also own Flex, Yaesu, Elad and gear from
many other manufacturers.

I encourage all Elecrafters to embrace new radio architectures and to
avoid criticism of other companies who are trying to advance the hobby.
I'm sure Elecraft will eventually adopt newer (and better) architectures
and look forward to Adam's evaluation of such new kit.
--

73,

Peter VE3LTI

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Guy Olinger K2AV

A helpful review...

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 12:52 PM, Peter Scovell <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>
> I have found the odd comments by some other readers of this mailing list
> somewhat parochial in outlook in that they seem to want to see and hear
> only items relating to Elecraft gear and not be informed of other new and
> exciting developments occurring in our hobby.

There are a pair of untrue assumptions in there.

1) Assumes that someone here, who doesn't want to transact discussions
about Flex products on the Elecraft reflector, cannot possibly hear about
Flex anywhere else. That if Flex information is not brought up on the
Elecraft reflector, the "good news" on Flex products will never be heard.

Personally, I've been on the Flex reflector since the very beginnings of
that product line. I can tell you an awful lot about where Flex is, what
the problems and improvements are. I have been on the cusp of a Flex
purchase for years. I just have a list that I'm waiting for them to invent
their way out of. A couple of those items need faster technology at lower
cost, which will get here, sometime. I just won't discuss it here on the
Elecraft Reflector.

It is also abundantly clear that I know more about Flex products than
trolls that have come on here hyping Flex just to see if they can get under
someone's skin. But I will not discuss issues about Flex products on the
Elecraft reflector. From where I sit, overall Elecraft reflector commentary
on Flex is fair-to-poor, sometimes outright inaccurate, but so what. It's
the *Elecraft* reflector. I expect accuracy on Flex products on the *Flex*
reflector.

Besides the Flex reflector, I get my Flex information from actual Flex
owners, and from the incessant joyful no-holds-barred all-rigs-comparison
commentary among PVRC club members, who have actually owned or do still own
the rigs under discussion. This, along with the opportunity to actually
operate other brands, beats out any other source of information hands down.

This reflector (Elecraft) ranks way up there in comparison to other
brand-centric reflectors. But it's up there because people on the Elecraft
reflector get outstanding help on Elecraft products, some from individuals
like W3FPR, who are off-scale high helpful on the
did-you-get-quick-and-accurate-information-that-helped-you-out scale.
Commentary on the world at large is not what drives up the Elecraft
reflector numbers.

2) It's not at all that I don't want to hear about "other new and exciting
developments". I'd just rather keep it to Elecraft here. I have really good
sources of everything else *elsewhere*. And I really do not trust any
information from folks that are just trying to stir up controversy to get
some yuks. You know who you are.

If I want to argue about rigs, I'll go join the long-running all-smiles
friendly rig-comparison food fight with some of my great lifetime friends
at PVRC.

73, Guy K2AV
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