Elecraft

A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

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Vic Rosenthal

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

This is almost exactly what I would want except I'm r/g colorblind and
want the cursor yellow.

It might help to have the TX cursor become red only while transmitting.
Then the sudden color change would act as a 'flash' and get your attention.

On 18 Feb 2015 17:58, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
>> please consider the addition of something on the P3 to indicate
>> split.
>
> It's *ALREADY THERE* - the Transmit (VFO B) cursor is *RED* when
> split. In addition, there is a separate (*THIRD*) red cursor
> showing the transmit frequency when XIT is engaged.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 2015-02-18 10:31 AM, David Cole wrote:
>> Wayne,
>> If the user has a P3 connected, please consider the addition of
>> something on the P3 to indicate split. Most of my eye action is on the
>> P3 in a pileup, not on the frequency.

--
73,
Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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WB4SON

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by Guy Olinger K2AV

Personally, I think anything that might even slightly improve the chance
that an operator might detect the wrong mode is a good thing.

From the original description, this sounds like a minor code change, so it
isn't like it is taking a lot of firmware development time.

73, Bob, WB4SON

On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 12:46 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> With all due respect, however......
>
> There are two times during a contest when I can get tripped up with
> SPLT or LINK or anything else that is not a firm habit or totally
> rote:
>
> STUPID -- my usual state after 24 hours with only scattered sleep,
> worsened by pileups not there to keep me energized and rates gone down
> and having to slog it out. Nothing fixes STUPID except 8 uninterrupted
> hours of sleep and cranial transplants. No flashy, whizzy change on
> the panel display will fix STUPID.
>
> LAZY -- That's when I get on because there's nothing else to do, I'm
> sleepy but can't go to sleep. More to the point, my basic attitude is
> irritated, irritated at whatever. Anything that bothers me is someone
> else's fault. My wife leaves me alone when I'm like that. I try not to
> write emails when I'm like that. I screw up SPLT because I'm not
> paying attention, because I don't want to pay attention. No flashy,
> whizzy change on the panel display will fix LAZY.
>
> DISTRACTED -- That's when there's more than one thing going on. That
> would be radio plus whatever. The whatever's are around all the time,
> need to scratch my b*tt, a bird flies past the window, a dog barks,
> multi/multi contest and the rates are down and the other ops are
> sending limericks around on the MM network. DISTRACTED is something we
> all need to manage, and don't want to, see LAZY. No flashy, whizzy
> change on the panel display will fix DISTRACTED.
>
> PAYING ATTENTION is the owner's responsibility. No one else's.
>
> SOME things would fix what seem, by the greater experience in Elecraft
> owner land, to be natural born trip hazards. Like guard rails to
> minimize the damage when a driver runs off the road, but the driver is
> still responsible.
>
> Could be an option to flash the delta f LED, but that is as far as I'd
> go. But even then after a time people will even tune out the flashing
> delta f LED. I normally do NOT perceive the flashing TX LED while I'm
> operating. Flashing TX LED is normal, and my mind has tuned out
> normal, looking listening for what's different, like the sound and
> smell of the Sabre-Tooth Tiger, back in my cave man days.
>
> The effect of flashy, whizzy change on the panel display will last
> until the subconscious human brain figures out that flashy, whizzy
> change on the panel display is NORMAL, and then the subconscious will
> tune it out, so it can listen for the Sabre-Tooth Tiger.
>
> 73, Guy
>
> On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 10:33 AM, Ted Roycraft <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Bingo! No amount of flashing on the K3 screen is going to correct poor
> > operating habits. Nothing can substitute for good operating practices
> which
> > become habits. It takes 2 seconds to check the K3 status before
> sending.
> > Make a habit. If you don't do that, you won't see anything flashing on
> the
> > screen either.
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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73, Bob, WB4SON

NK7Z

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

On Wed, 2015-02-18 at 10:55 -0500, Joe Subich, W4TV spewed:

Implicit in your statement is that the transceiver, automobile, roadway
or whatever should make it impossible for the operator to have an
accident. That's not possible - there are those who can break an anvil.
===

Untrue Joe... No where do I imply that it should be "impossible" for an
accident to happen. In fact I infer just the opposite, that there
should be safeguards. I infer it by use of sarcasm.

You are again taking everything to extremes, then arguing that issue as
if the originator of the statement also took things to extremes. Please
read what was typed and respond to what was typed, not your translation
of what was typed.

On Wed, 2015-02-18 at 10:55 -0500, Joe Subich, W4TV sprayed the Internet
with:

The current design that *THREE* separate indications of split operation.
Any *one* of those should be sufficient. *NONE* of the proposals do
anything to address the real question which should be how to notify the
operator that he *should be in split*.
===

Clearly you are not reading, or comprehending, what is being said
here... Many Ops here have said, (repeatedly), that the radio is
dropping out of Split for some reason, and they are not noticing it.
Hence your premise that the Ops need to be told they "*should be in
split*" is deeply flawed.

Clearly there is an issue Joe... There are just too many people
requesting a change.

On Wed, 2015-02-18 at 10:55 -0500, Joe Subich, W4TV heaved up the
following:

The problem is that the operator *is not paying attention*. The correct
approach would be: every time the operator activates transmit, the rig
display should show a message that says "you are in transceive (simplex)
- are you sure you should not engage split? Press XMIT to begin
transmitting"
===
Again, using the Extreme card to make a point that just does not cut the
mustard on it's own...

For those of us that make mistakes Joe, (unlike yourself evidently),
there is an issue here...
--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
for Dopplergram information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
for MM-SSTV see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info

>

> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 2015-02-18 10:40 AM, David Cole wrote:
> > Dave (AB9CA),
> >
> > Given your logic, we should get rid of all street signs, and stop
> > lights, and guard rails on bridges, and roads, because the drivers are
> > just initiative, and the crutch o guard rails is not needed for them.
> >
> > Implicit in your statement, is the assumption that the provided
> > indicators are sufficient, which all of this traffic would seem to
> > indicate is not the case.
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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Wes (N7WS)

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by Dave-7

Yep. Pity the guy who still tunes to find DX and hasn't see a spot with split
info. He hears one of these stations and starts calling after a few "QRZ"s.
He's lit on with a vengeance.

Same thing with DX working by continents or call areas that don't regularly
announce that either. Then you get, "He's working JAs you moron."

Wes N7WS

.On 2/18/2015 9:46 AM, dave wrote:
>
> > The only real solution is signal decoding
> > that listens for "UP" and automatically engages split.
>
> Even this won't work for those ops who rarely send UP. I listened to one DX
> last evening, TI9/xxxxxx, who went 20 min without ID'ing and *never* sent UP.
>

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NK7Z

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by Gary Smith-2

Hi Gary,
THANK YOU! That is exactly what has been happening here as well... I
will find myself out of split after checking a spot.
--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
for Dopplergram information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
for MM-SSTV see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info

On Wed, 2015-02-18 at 11:39 -0500, Gary Smith wrote:

> It is the operator of the radio who must be in control of his
> transmitter. When I go to a split operation I always set the K3 to do
> that and I'm good to go.
>
> However what happens is I rarely make the Q right away and I I'll
> click on another spot I need to see how that is coming in and with my
> software, if there is a split frequency entered, the K3 will be put
> in split as well (All is good). But, when going back to the first
> frequency, unless I manually work the band switch to QSY to where I
> first set up the split, clicking on a spot in the spot log will get
> me there but if SPLIT wasn't in that info, I'll be back but not in
> SPLIT. When I transmit I'll be dead on the DX.
>
> If I had clicked on a spot on the same band, I may or may not have
> had a SPLIT entered based on the info the spotter had left. So if
> there was no SPLIT, then QSYing back to the first frequency, I'd
> again have no SPLIT.
>
> The problem being that I had set up a split the first time but later
> left the frequency and going back to it, I have to check to see if
> I'm still in split. Yes, the responsibility is mine to do so but it's
> easy to be curious about other possible Qs and then having your
> original settings be undone without you thinking about it.
>
> I suspect some version of that scenario happens to most people. For
> me, seeing the words in color on the P3 would be an in your face
> reminder you are in split or not. I'd love to be able to select that
> option, others may not want to but it would save my can, you betcha.
>
> 73,
>
> Gary KA1J
> >
> > > Implicit in your statement, is the assumption that the provided
> > > indicators are sufficient, which all of this traffic would seem to
> > > indicate is not the case.
> >
> > Implicit in your statement is that the transceiver, automobile, roadway
> > or whatever should make it impossible for the operator to have an
> > accident. That's not possible - there are those who can break an
> > anvil.
> >
> > The current design that *THREE* separate indications of split operation.
> > Any *one* of those should be sufficient. *NONE* of the proposals do
> > anything to address the real question which should be how to notify the
> > operator that he *should be in split*.
> >
> > The problem is that the operator *is not paying attention*. The
> > correct approach would be: every time the operator activates transmit,
> > the rig display should show a message that says "you are in transceive
> > (simplex) - are you sure you should not engage split? Press XMIT to
> > begin transmitting"
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > ... Joe, W4TV
> >
> >
> > On 2015-02-18 10:40 AM, David Cole wrote:
> > > Dave (AB9CA),
> > >
> > > Given your logic, we should get rid of all street signs, and stop
> > > lights, and guard rails on bridges, and roads, because the drivers are
> > > just initiative, and the crutch o guard rails is not needed for them.
> > >
> > > Implicit in your statement, is the assumption that the provided
> > > indicators are sufficient, which all of this traffic would seem to
> > > indicate is not the case.
> > >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >
>
>
>
>
> ---
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Wes (N7WS)

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

There you go, a 75A-4 and a DX-100.

On 2/18/2015 10:22 AM, george fritkin via Elecraft wrote:
> I make it easy. I use two radios.
> George, W6GF
>
> O

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NK7Z

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by Dwayne Rohmer

I agree, this would work for me, and then the people that simply can't
stand it flashing, can turn it off...
--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
for Dopplergram information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
for MM-SSTV see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info

On Wed, 2015-02-18 at 11:05 -0600, Dwayne Rohmer wrote:

> I suggested CONFIG: DELTA-F LED (nor or FLASH) as a solution to those
> that need another "flag" to indicate SPLIT. If you don't want it, you
> wouldn't have to configure it.

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by Dwayne Rohmer

On 2015-02-18 12:05 PM, Dwayne Rohmer wrote:
> I suggested CONFIG: DELTA-F LED (nor or FLASH) as a solution to those
> that need another "flag" to indicate SPLIT. If you don't want it, you
> wouldn't have to configure it.

I agree that this is the least cost and least objectionable *additional*
split indicator.

> Since the objective is to easily determine or verify the transmit
> frequency with SPLIT, RIT, and XIT ops, maybe a CONFIG option could
> enable the Transmit frequency (in this case, VFO B) to flash three
> times on key down, but only when operating SPLIT, RIT, and XIT.
>
> I propose CONFIG: Tx FREQ (nor or FLASH).

How about ... the transmit VFO - whichever VFO is selected - display
blinks when transmitting. In addition to CONFIG:TX FREQ (NOR | FLASH)
include CONFIG: DISP FLASH (ON | TX ONLY) to select whether the TX VFO
will flash ALL THE TIME or only in transmit. That way, those who want
an "in your face" display can have it in spades.

After all, SPLIT is an English word and may not be understandable by
all potential users of the transceiver - particularly those for whom
English is not their first or even second language.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by NK7Z

On 2015-02-18 1:08 PM, David Cole wrote:
> Clearly you are not reading, or comprehending, what is being said
> here...

I am reading *and* comprehending what has been said here. I've even
been guilty of not being split when I should be but *never* more than
one or two transmissions and most often when the DX is not announcing
that he's listening split. I make it a habit to check the Delta-F
LED and/or the [SPLIT] icon before calling any station.

>> The problem is that the operator *is not paying attention*. The
>> correct approach would be: every time the operator activates
>> transmit, the rig display should show a message that says "you are
>> in transceive (simplex) - are you sure you should not engage split?
>> Press XMIT to begin transmitting"
> ===
> Again, using the Extreme card to make a point that just does not cut
> the mustard on it's own...

The "need another indicator" chant is extreme in itself. If three on
the K3 and two on the P3 are not enough how many does it take? How
distraction needs to be added until a distracted operator becomes
focused?

It is not logical to believe that one can focus a distracted operator
by pouring on additional distractions but if you want it simply do
an option that will cause the VFO A or VFO B display (whichever is
selected for transmit) to blink full time and to prevent anyone from
missing that distraction inhibit transmit if the second line of the
display is not showing VFO B.

No matter how many guardrails you install, there will always be some
fool who drives into that curve 10 MPH faster than the guardrails can
handle.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2015-02-18 1:08 PM, David Cole wrote:

> On Wed, 2015-02-18 at 10:55 -0500, Joe Subich, W4TV spewed:
>
> Implicit in your statement is that the transceiver, automobile, roadway
> or whatever should make it impossible for the operator to have an
> accident. That's not possible - there are those who can break an anvil.
> ===
>
> Untrue Joe... No where do I imply that it should be "impossible" for an
> accident to happen. In fact I infer just the opposite, that there
> should be safeguards. I infer it by use of sarcasm.
>
> You are again taking everything to extremes, then arguing that issue as
> if the originator of the statement also took things to extremes. Please
> read what was typed and respond to what was typed, not your translation
> of what was typed.
>
>
> On Wed, 2015-02-18 at 10:55 -0500, Joe Subich, W4TV sprayed the Internet
> with:
>
> The current design that *THREE* separate indications of split operation.
> Any *one* of those should be sufficient. *NONE* of the proposals do
> anything to address the real question which should be how to notify the
> operator that he *should be in split*.
> ===
>
> Clearly you are not reading, or comprehending, what is being said
> here... Many Ops here have said, (repeatedly), that the radio is
> dropping out of Split for some reason, and they are not noticing it.
> Hence your premise that the Ops need to be told they "*should be in
> split*" is deeply flawed.
>
> Clearly there is an issue Joe... There are just too many people
> requesting a change.
>
>
> On Wed, 2015-02-18 at 10:55 -0500, Joe Subich, W4TV heaved up the
> following:
>
> The problem is that the operator *is not paying attention*. The correct
> approach would be: every time the operator activates transmit, the rig
> display should show a message that says "you are in transceive (simplex)
> - are you sure you should not engage split? Press XMIT to begin
> transmitting"
> ===
> Again, using the Extreme card to make a point that just does not cut the
> mustard on it's own...
>
> For those of us that make mistakes Joe, (unlike yourself evidently),
> there is an issue here...
>

Phil Wheeler-2

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by Guy Olinger K2AV

Are you suggesting that such notifications appear
on the LCD display, that the K3 assess your
behavior and show it to you? :-)

Phil W7OX

On 2/18/15 9:46 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

Doug VE3VS

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Wayne says....
I think the chance of success with this change is pretty high, precisely because you *won't* have to be looking at the radio. A complete rewrite of the VFO A or B display on key-down is going to be very noticeable even with peripheral vision.

Wayne
N6KR

I say, thanks again for listening to a situation which confronts some of us. I consider myself to be a serious and conscientious operator, and have been a ham radio operator for more than fifty-five years. In the situation we are discussing, I know that I have already been listening to the DX station and I have properly set up the radio, using macros, for SPLIT operation. And almost always, things go well.

Once in a while, I may, for a moment, change frequency to look at a spot on the DX cluster, and then return to my original frequency/band. It is at this point where I may have inadvertently dropped out of the SPLIT setup, and have missed the existing clues to right the situation. Perhaps it is the location of the cursor on the P3, indicating that I am up the band with VFO B, that trips me up for a moment.

It is when a situation like this occurs that I would certainly appreciate an "in-your-face" reminder that lets me realize very quickly that I have lost my original SPLIT setting. Certainly you should maintain the interface that already exists, and make additional choices optional, but I assure you that I would like to be one to test-drive your recent suggestion.

Thanks, Doug, VE3VS

NK7Z

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

On Wed, 2015-02-18 at 16:45 -0500, Joe Subich, W4TV hosed down the
Internet with:
> On 2015-02-18 1:08 PM, David Cole wrote:
> > Clearly you are not reading, or comprehending, what is being said
> > here...
>
> I am reading *and* comprehending what has been said here. I've even
> been guilty of not being split when I should be but *never* more than
> one or two transmissions and most often when the DX is not announcing
> that he's listening split. I make it a habit to check the Delta-F
> LED and/or the [SPLIT] icon before calling any station.

It's not about you Joe! I am just happy as can be that you never fail
to look at the DELTA-F LED. The suggestions being presented here, are
for others, myself included. I am happy you are always correct, and
check the LED every-time, I don't. Sometimes, I, and it would appear
others, actually-- (GASP), forget to check the LED...

As Wayne said, the UI should assist users... Also having the LED flash
be an option, not the default should have ended this entire
discussion...

--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
for Dopplergram information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
for MM-SSTV see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info

>
> >> The problem is that the operator *is not paying attention*. The
> >> correct approach would be: every time the operator activates
> >> transmit, the rig display should show a message that says "you are
> >> in transceive (simplex) - are you sure you should not engage split?
> >> Press XMIT to begin transmitting"
> > ===
> > Again, using the Extreme card to make a point that just does not cut
> > the mustard on it's own...
>
> The "need another indicator" chant is extreme in itself. If three on
> the K3 and two on the P3 are not enough how many does it take? How
> distraction needs to be added until a distracted operator becomes
> focused?
>
> It is not logical to believe that one can focus a distracted operator
> by pouring on additional distractions but if you want it simply do
> an option that will cause the VFO A or VFO B display (whichever is
> selected for transmit) to blink full time and to prevent anyone from
> missing that distraction inhibit transmit if the second line of the
> display is not showing VFO B.
>
> No matter how many guardrails you install, there will always be some
> fool who drives into that curve 10 MPH faster than the guardrails can
> handle.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 2015-02-18 1:08 PM, David Cole wrote:
> > On Wed, 2015-02-18 at 10:55 -0500, Joe Subich, W4TV spewed:
> >
> > Implicit in your statement is that the transceiver, automobile, roadway
> > or whatever should make it impossible for the operator to have an
> > accident. That's not possible - there are those who can break an anvil.
> > ===
> >
> > Untrue Joe... No where do I imply that it should be "impossible" for an
> > accident to happen. In fact I infer just the opposite, that there
> > should be safeguards. I infer it by use of sarcasm.
> >
> > You are again taking everything to extremes, then arguing that issue as
> > if the originator of the statement also took things to extremes. Please
> > read what was typed and respond to what was typed, not your translation
> > of what was typed.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 2015-02-18 at 10:55 -0500, Joe Subich, W4TV sprayed the Internet
> > with:
> >
> > The current design that *THREE* separate indications of split operation.
> > Any *one* of those should be sufficient. *NONE* of the proposals do
> > anything to address the real question which should be how to notify the
> > operator that he *should be in split*.
> > ===
> >
> > Clearly you are not reading, or comprehending, what is being said
> > here... Many Ops here have said, (repeatedly), that the radio is
> > dropping out of Split for some reason, and they are not noticing it.
> > Hence your premise that the Ops need to be told they "*should be in
> > split*" is deeply flawed.
> >
> > Clearly there is an issue Joe... There are just too many people
> > requesting a change.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 2015-02-18 at 10:55 -0500, Joe Subich, W4TV heaved up the
> > following:
> >
> > The problem is that the operator *is not paying attention*. The correct
> > approach would be: every time the operator activates transmit, the rig
> > display should show a message that says "you are in transceive (simplex)
> > - are you sure you should not engage split? Press XMIT to begin
> > transmitting"
> > ===
> > Again, using the Extreme card to make a point that just does not cut the
> > mustard on it's own...
> >
> > For those of us that make mistakes Joe, (unlike yourself evidently),
> > there is an issue here...
> >
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Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Why don't we get on with life. Split operation is implemented many ways by different manufactures. Proper split operation is a combination of radio and operator skills. We can do some things on the radio to improve operation, but we can not change operator skills.
As I said, optimum split operation requires two radios. Single radio split brings into the equation many variables. Those who can afford multi-radio operation, try it. And the second radio does not have to be a real high performance rig. Just make sure the TX portion has a good speech processor.
George, W6GF

On Thursday, February 19, 2015 8:23 AM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Feb 18, 2015, at 8:18 AM, Mike Reublin NF4L <[hidden email]> wrote:

> If it's an option, OK, but I am convinced that if an op misses the existing two indicators on the LCD display, and the Δf yellow LED, then more indicators aren't gonna help. And I am unanimous in my opinion.

:)

Well, I'm not sure I agree. Yes, there are three indicators, but they're all quite small, and the delta-F LED is off to the side. These methods of indicating split all seemed like a great idea at the time, but even I miss them sometimes, so I'm interested in trying something else.

My proposed "split" and "non-split" text indications might solve the "didn't see the indicators" problem, because they occupy so much more area of the front panel (about 20 times more). That seems to be the crux of the issue: a lot of operators want something *BIG* to change stage when they transmit, and that something has to indicate whether they're in split or not.

This method also works whether you're doing "real" split (RX on VFO A, TX on VFO B) or "sub-RX implied split" (TX on VFO A, RX with sub on VFO B).

Wayne
N6KR

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Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by Phil Wheeler-2

Wayne, I have it!! Buy the rights to the Kenwood TS990 front panel. There are enough buttons and displays to make anybody happy. Gee Whiz

George,W6GF

Sent from my iPad

> On Feb 18, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Phil Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The fact that the K3 has the blessings of Cognitive Science is most reassuring, Wayne. :-)
>
> Phil W7OX
>
>> On 2/18/15 8:00 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> User interface design is often called upon to make up for human failings. We get distracted, we forget, we have trouble breaking bad habits, we easily acquire new ones. This is true no matter how much training we have. The designer tries to take such issues into account up front, but sometimes we find out later and make adjustments.
>>
>> My cognitive science professor, Don Norman, put a heavy emphasis on embedding knowledge "in the world." Signs and indicators need to be as unambiguous as possible to help those of us who can't or won't pay attention. Ideally the indications are intuitive, so users adapt to them easily and don't feel oppressed by them. That distinction is in play here. And while I'd love to add a dozen more LEDs, a klaxon horn, and a Van de Graf generator to the K3's user interface, we have to work within the limits of the existing hardware.
>>
>> Providing an optional means of reinforcing split/non-split state is in the tradition of design iteration -- using feedback about real errors that people make, then minimizing them. That's why we're having this conversation.
>>
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>
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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

Administrator

Let's also let the Split/Not Split warning thread rest for now. We've definitely
beat this one to death! :-)

73,
Eric
List moderator and therapist..
elecraft.com

On 2/19/2015 4:20 PM, George Fritkin via Elecraft wrote:
> Wayne, I have it!! Buy the rights to the Kenwood TS990 front panel. There are enough buttons and displays to make anybody happy. Gee Whiz
>
> George,W6GF
>
> Sent from my iPad
>

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Bill Coleman-2

Re: [Bulk] A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

> On Feb 18, 2015, at 11:03 AM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Joe,
>
> Just because there are three indicators for SPLIT already doesn't mean that the problem has been solved. Even crack operators have admitted during the past few days that they occasionally forget their split state, with embarrassing consequences. This is proof that the indications can and should be improved, if possible. See my previous posting.

OK, I’ll tell you what often messes me up.

One of the aggravating things about the K3 is that you cannot move freely between modes if split is engaged. You can change from CW to SSB or vice versa, but if you are in Data mode, or if you are trying to switch to Data mode, it won’t go until you turn off split.

I generally tune in a station with VFO A, then hit A>B (twice) and move B to the correct DX receive frequency. If split is on, everything is good. If, for some reason, I had split on, but then turned it off so I could change modes, I sometimes forget to turn it back on.

I hate this. I wish I could just select whatever mode in VFO A I want, regardless of split — the firmware should prevent me from transmitting in unsupported configurations, of course, with an appropriate message in the VFO B display.

If this could be fixed, it would help prevent me from making this mistake.

(Yeah, I know, can I not see the bright yellow delta-F light? You’d think so….)

Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: [hidden email]
Web: http://boringhamradiopart.blogspot.com
Quote: "Not within a thousand years will man ever fly!"
-- Wilbur Wright, 1901

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Mike Reublin NF4L

Re: [Bulk] A way to show both "SPLIT" and "NON-SPLIT" warnings

I agree Bill, it's a real nuisance. Maybe Wayne can tack this onto his main bill as a rider. It's a real life, almost-every-day irritant. No amount of additional split warning will help, it's still too many button pushes, and inconsistent behavior by mode.

73, Mike NF4L

> On Mar 3, 2015, at 22:06, Bill Coleman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> OK, I’ll tell you what often messes me up.
>
> One of the aggravating things about the K3 is that you cannot move freely between modes if split is engaged. You can change from CW to SSB or vice versa, but if you are in Data mode, or if you are trying to switch to Data mode, it won’t go until you turn off split.
>
> I generally tune in a station with VFO A, then hit A>B (twice) and move B to the correct DX receive frequency. If split is on, everything is good. If, for some reason, I had split on, but then turned it off so I could change modes, I sometimes forget to turn it back on.
>
> I hate this. I wish I could just select whatever mode in VFO A I want, regardless of split — the firmware should prevent me from transmitting in unsupported configurations, of course, with an appropriate message in the VFO B display.
>
> If this could be fixed, it would help prevent me from making this mistake.
>
> (Yeah, I know, can I not see the bright yellow delta-F light? You’d think so….)
>
> Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: [hidden email]
> Web: http://boringhamradiopart.blogspot.com
> Quote: "Not within a thousand years will man ever fly!"
> -- Wilbur Wright, 1901
>
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