AGC INFORMATION
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I have been following the thread with regards to the setting of the AGC of the K-3 with great interest. I am new to the use of the K-3 even though I have owned the radio for some time. I had a medical issue that delayed my use of the unit. My K-3 has been updated with all of the current K-3s upgrades and I use a KPA500. The thread has given several settings for AGC SLP and AGC THR but I noticed that the setting for the other AGC settings are not mentioned. Should I assume that the other default settings are to be used? I tried the suggested settings and found that they did help with the reception of weak signals. I work a lot of DX SSB and working the pileups can be a problem. I also would like to thank KE7X for the great book on the K-3, it has been a great help and has answered a lot of questions.
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance 73 Louis, KJ4ZSI PSent from my iPad ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Louis,
I am not one to give you specific settings for you to just plug in and use. If I did so, I would just tell you to use the default settings. Every location and operating style is different, and you can enhance the AGC performance to meet your particular situation. Please read the "Noisy K3" information on my webiste www.w3fpr/com to give you guidelines on how to adjust your particular AGC. Pay particular attention to the method for evaluating the results of your adjustments - it is critical that you listen to short gaps in the CW or SSB voice to determine the best settings for you. 73, Don W3FPR On 11/15/2016 5:46 PM, louis a. ives wrote: > I have been following the thread with regards to the setting of the AGC of the K-3 with great interest. I am new to the use of the K-3 even though I have owned the radio for some time. I had a medical issue that delayed my use of the unit. My K-3 has been updated with all of the current K-3s upgrades and I use a KPA500. The thread has given several settings for AGC SLP and AGC THR but I noticed that the setting for the other AGC settings are not mentioned. Should I assume that the other default settings are to be used? I tried the suggested settings and found that they did help with the reception of weak signals. I work a lot of DX SSB and working the pileups can be a problem. I also would like to thank KE7X for the great book on the K-3, it has been a great help and has answered a lot of questions. > Any help would be appreciated. > Thanks in advance ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Louis,
FWIW I like my K3 noisy, almost so it sounds like there is no AGC action, just enough to protect my ears from an unexpected loud signal. I've found that this makes it easiest to copy extremely weak CW signals that are below the noise, and prevents static pops from covering up the signal. The two settings to adjust are AGC threshold and AGC slope. Start with threshold as it will make the biggest difference in how strong vs weak signals sound. If you need finer-grained control, the AGC threshold can be useful. The other settings should be fine at their default values. The AGC decay "soft" setting is preferred by some in pileups, so you might try both settings. I found this writeup which looks pretty good: http://www.ad4c.us/Elecraft%20K3/AGC%20Tutorial.pdf 73, Matt NQ6N On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 7:42 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote: > Louis, > > I am not one to give you specific settings for you to just plug in and > use. If I did so, I would just tell you to use the default settings. > Every location and operating style is different, and you can enhance the > AGC performance to meet your particular situation. > > Please read the "Noisy K3" information on my webiste www.w3fpr/com to give > you guidelines on how to adjust your particular AGC. > Pay particular attention to the method for evaluating the results of your > adjustments - it is critical that you listen to short gaps in the CW or SSB > voice to determine the best settings for you. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > On 11/15/2016 5:46 PM, louis a. ives wrote: > >> I have been following the thread with regards to the setting of the AGC >> of the K-3 with great interest. I am new to the use of the K-3 even though >> I have owned the radio for some time. I had a medical issue that delayed >> my use of the unit. My K-3 has been updated with all of the current K-3s >> upgrades and I use a KPA500. The thread has given several settings for AGC >> SLP and AGC THR but I noticed that the setting for the other AGC settings >> are not mentioned. Should I assume that the other default settings are to >> be used? I tried the suggested settings and found that they did help with >> the reception of weak signals. I work a lot of DX SSB and working the >> pileups can be a problem. I also would like to thank KE7X for the great >> book on the K-3, it has been a great help and has answered a lot of >> questions. >> Any help would be appreciated. >> Thanks in advance >> > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Hi Matt,
I used to think I could copy CW signals below the noise. However when I put SPECTROGRAM in line and actually measured the S/N ratio the results were disappointing. According the SPECTROGRAM, those "in the noise" signals actually had an +8-10 dB S/N ratio. Try it and see for yourself. Likewise those WSPR and JT65 guys have been mislead by the -dB (e.g. -20) edited signal strengths. They need to know that those are calculated with a 2.4 - 2.8 KHz assumed noise power. In reality, many of the negative "dB" value signals can be copied by ear. 73 de Brian/K3KO On 11/16/2016 2:37 AM, Matt Murphy wrote: > Louis, > > FWIW I like my K3 noisy, almost so it sounds like there is no AGC action, > just enough to protect my ears from an unexpected loud signal. I've found > that this makes it easiest to copy extremely weak CW signals that are below > the noise, and prevents static pops from covering up the signal. The two > settings to adjust are AGC threshold and AGC slope. Start with threshold > as it will make the biggest difference in how strong vs weak signals > sound. If you need finer-grained control, the AGC threshold can be useful. > The other settings should be fine at their default values. The AGC decay > "soft" setting is preferred by some in pileups, so you might try both > settings. > > I found this writeup which looks pretty good: > > http://www.ad4c.us/Elecraft%20K3/AGC%20Tutorial.pdf > > > 73, > Matt NQ6N > > On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 7:42 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> Louis, >> >> I am not one to give you specific settings for you to just plug in and >> use. If I did so, I would just tell you to use the default settings. >> Every location and operating style is different, and you can enhance the >> AGC performance to meet your particular situation. >> >> Please read the "Noisy K3" information on my webiste www.w3fpr/com to give >> you guidelines on how to adjust your particular AGC. >> Pay particular attention to the method for evaluating the results of your >> adjustments - it is critical that you listen to short gaps in the CW or SSB >> voice to determine the best settings for you. >> >> 73, >> Don W3FPR >> >> On 11/15/2016 5:46 PM, louis a. ives wrote: >> >>> I have been following the thread with regards to the setting of the AGC >>> of the K-3 with great interest. I am new to the use of the K-3 even though >>> I have owned the radio for some time. I had a medical issue that delayed >>> my use of the unit. My K-3 has been updated with all of the current K-3s >>> upgrades and I use a KPA500. The thread has given several settings for AGC >>> SLP and AGC THR but I noticed that the setting for the other AGC settings >>> are not mentioned. Should I assume that the other default settings are to >>> be used? I tried the suggested settings and found that they did help with >>> the reception of weak signals. I work a lot of DX SSB and working the >>> pileups can be a problem. I also would like to thank KE7X for the great >>> book on the K-3, it has been a great help and has answered a lot of >>> questions. >>> Any help would be appreciated. >>> Thanks in advance >>> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to [hidden email] >> > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by louis a. ives
Just a comment/correction about JT65:
I don't know who is claiming 20-dB improvement over CW, but the creator of JT65, Joe Taylor - K1JT has stated that "about" ten dB improvement can be realized. I can hear -18 dB JT65 tones from eme signals. This fits well with the theory of receiving weak-signals, be they CW or digital. The typical (or maybe better than typical) CW op can hear copy signals down to 17 dB below what is SNR = 0 dB in a 2.5 KHz bandwidth. How that is determined is by reducing bw to 50-Hz. The improvement in SNR from 2.5 KHz to 50-Hz is given by 10Log(2500/50) = 10 Log(50) = 17 dB. JT-65 signals can be decoded down at -28 dB referenced to 2.5 KHz, thus about 10-dB improvement over hearing CW. I find I need to reduce radio bw to 100-Hz when trying to copy very-weak CW; maybe my ears/brain adds another 3-dB filtering to get to 50-Hz (maybe not as I seem to need SNR> 6 dB to copy CW. But I can make out tones at SNR=0 (or below). Narrowing radio bw to 50-Hz does not help me as the filter ringing confuses what my brain hears. Having severe hearing disability does not help, either. Nearly all the improvement in decoding signals comes from narrowing bw. JT-65 digital bw is about 5-Hz using a sequence of tones that vary in audio frequency so the FSK signal takes about 180 KHz bw in Tx. Note 10Log(2500/5) = 27 dB. One more note: JT-65 is run at SSB bw (typ. 2.5 KHz) since all the weak-signal work is done in sw. Some eme JT-65 stations run 4-KHz bw to watch several frequencies. I run MAP65 at 60-KHz bw to simultaneously watch the whole eme sub-band 144.095-144.155. My system does not use the K3 2nd IF or roofing filters. I've written before about that so visit my website if you want to know more about that. 73, Ed - KL7UW --------------------------- From: brian <[hidden email]> To: "[hidden email] >> 'Elecraft Reflector'" <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] AGC INFORMATION Message-ID: <[hidden email]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Hi Matt, I used to think I could copy CW signals below the noise. However when I put SPECTROGRAM in line and actually measured the S/N ratio the results were disappointing. According the SPECTROGRAM, those "in the noise" signals actually had an +8-10 dB S/N ratio. Try it and see for yourself. Likewise those WSPR and JT65 guys have been mislead by the -dB (e.g. -20) edited signal strengths. They need to know that those are calculated with a 2.4 - 2.8 KHz assumed noise power. In reality, many of the negative "dB" value signals can be copied by ear. 73 de Brian/K3KO 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com "Kits made by KL7UW" Dubus Mag Business e-mail: [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Ed,
Thank you for a very clear explanation here... Well written out. 73s and thanks, Dave NK7Z http://www.nk7z.net On 11/16/2016 05:04 PM, Edward R Cole wrote: > Just a comment/correction about JT65: > > I don't know who is claiming 20-dB improvement over CW, but the creator > of JT65, Joe Taylor - K1JT has stated that "about" ten dB improvement > can be realized. I can hear -18 dB JT65 tones from eme signals. This > fits well with the theory of receiving weak-signals, be they CW or digital. > > The typical (or maybe better than typical) CW op can hear copy signals > down to 17 dB below what is SNR = 0 dB in a 2.5 KHz bandwidth. How that > is determined is by reducing bw to 50-Hz. The improvement in SNR from > 2.5 KHz to 50-Hz is given by 10Log(2500/50) = 10 Log(50) = 17 dB. > > JT-65 signals can be decoded down at -28 dB referenced to 2.5 KHz, thus > about 10-dB improvement over hearing CW. > > I find I need to reduce radio bw to 100-Hz when trying to copy very-weak > CW; maybe my ears/brain adds another 3-dB filtering to get to 50-Hz > (maybe not as I seem to need SNR> 6 dB to copy CW. But I can make out > tones at SNR=0 (or below). > > Narrowing radio bw to 50-Hz does not help me as the filter ringing > confuses what my brain hears. Having severe hearing disability does not > help, either. > > Nearly all the improvement in decoding signals comes from narrowing bw. > JT-65 digital bw is about 5-Hz using a sequence of tones that vary in > audio frequency so the FSK signal takes about 180 KHz bw in Tx. Note > 10Log(2500/5) = 27 dB. > > One more note: JT-65 is run at SSB bw (typ. 2.5 KHz) since all the > weak-signal work is done in sw. Some eme JT-65 stations run 4-KHz bw to > watch several frequencies. I run MAP65 at 60-KHz bw to simultaneously > watch the whole eme sub-band 144.095-144.155. My system does not use > the K3 2nd IF or roofing filters. I've written before about that so > visit my website if you want to know more about that. > > 73, Ed - KL7UW > --------------------------- > From: brian <[hidden email]> > To: "[hidden email] >> 'Elecraft Reflector'" > <[hidden email]> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] AGC INFORMATION > Message-ID: <[hidden email]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > Hi Matt, > > I used to think I could copy CW signals below the noise. > However when I put SPECTROGRAM in line and actually measured the S/N > ratio the results were disappointing. > > According the SPECTROGRAM, those "in the noise" signals actually had an > +8-10 dB S/N ratio. > > Try it and see for yourself. > > Likewise those WSPR and JT65 guys have been mislead by the -dB (e.g. > -20) edited signal strengths. They need to know that those are > calculated with a 2.4 - 2.8 KHz assumed noise power. In reality, many > of the negative "dB" value signals can be copied by ear. > > 73 de Brian/K3KO > > > 73, Ed - KL7UW > http://www.kl7uw.com > "Kits made by KL7UW" > Dubus Mag Business e-mail: > [hidden email] > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Edward R Cole
From the estate of Bob, WB8QLA
K3/100-F K3 100W Xcvr - Factory Assembled KAT3-F K3 ATU - Factory Installed KFL3A-1.8K-F 1.8 kHz 8-Pole Roofing Filter - Factory Installed KFL3A-400-F K3 400Hz 8 Pole Filter - Factory Installed KUSB USB Adapter S/N 7786 Clean Original Carton LOW HOURS $3020 NEW (plus shipping) 70% =$2114 $2050 Shipped Continental US Mike / W8DN ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Manual included.
email: [hidden email] On 11/17/2016 2:35 PM, Mike Rhodes wrote: > From the estate of Bob, WB8QLA > > K3/100-F K3 100W Xcvr - Factory Assembled > KAT3-F K3 ATU - Factory Installed > KFL3A-1.8K-F 1.8 kHz 8-Pole Roofing Filter - Factory Installed > KFL3A-400-F K3 400Hz 8 Pole Filter - Factory Installed > KUSB USB Adapter > S/N 7786 Clean > Original Carton > > LOW HOURS > > $3020 NEW (plus shipping) > 70% =$2114 > > $2050 Shipped Continental US > > Mike / W8DN > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
SOLD Pending... K3/100-F For Sale
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Thanks to all...
Mike / W8DN On 11/17/2016 2:47 PM, Mike Rhodes wrote: > Manual included. > email: [hidden email] > > On 11/17/2016 2:35 PM, Mike Rhodes wrote: >> From the estate of Bob, WB8QLA >> >> K3/100-F K3 100W Xcvr - Factory Assembled >> KAT3-F K3 ATU - Factory Installed >> KFL3A-1.8K-F 1.8 kHz 8-Pole Roofing Filter - Factory Installed >> KFL3A-400-F K3 400Hz 8 Pole Filter - Factory Installed >> KUSB USB Adapter >> S/N 7786 Clean >> Original Carton >> >> LOW HOURS >> >> $3020 NEW (plus shipping) >> 70% =$2114 >> >> $2050 Shipped Continental US >> >> Mike / W8DN >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to [hidden email] >> > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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