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APF For K3

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AC7AC

Re: APF For K3: progress report

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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: APF For K3: progress report [Thread Pause]

Administrator

Let's pause this thread for now in the interest of controlling list
volume/noise. Its obviously a high interest subject!

We are close to field testing the APF function and the thread can resume
then.

73, Eric WA6HHQ
Elecraft List moderator
Go Giants!
---

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The Smiths

Re: APF For K3: progress report

In reply to this post by AC7AC

That's it Ron, it's very much like you just described, now add a Q-Multiplier into that equation and you're there....

> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 09:33:19 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3: progress report
>
> The concept reminds me most of the very popular 1940's homebrew project the
> "Selectoject" (QST November 1947). Operating at audio, it featured a
> two-stage constant-output phase shifting amplifier the provided a variable
> frequency response from wide to razor sharp tunable across a 300 to 6000 Hz
> range as either a variable amplitude peak or a variable amplitude notch.
> It's actually a very simple circuit involving only three stages.
>
> Ron AC7AC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> At 10:08 PM 26/10/10, you wrote:
> >and APF should peak a portion of that IF area that I choose (like a
> >manual Notch filter does, but reverse)... Not move it around. 3
> >different things here... Does it make more sense to you?
> >
> Like the old Heathkit Q multiplier, QF-1, peak or null option?
>
> John
> k7up
>
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Roy Morris-6

APF For K3

In reply to this post by Roy Morris-6

I do not believe you want to change the tone of the received CW signal. If the SPOT button is used to turn on APF, the spot tone should be turned off for APF. You should be able to tune across his signal at his frequency and "peak" his signal. That is what APF is supposed to do. Please do not try to convert his signal to your spot tone. Roy Morris W4WFB
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Richard Ferch

Re: APF For K3

Here is an operational scenario:

You are CQing in the CQ WW CW contest. There are other loud stations
CQing on either side of you. You have adjusted your SHIFT and WIDTH
controls to eliminate the adjacent-channel interference while still, you
hope, being wide enough to catch anyone calling you.

A weak station replies to your CQ, but he's some distance off your
frequency, although still within your bandpass. You'd like to be able to
put an audio peaking filter on his signal without affecting the rest of
your setup.

You don't want to change your sidetone pitch; that's a separate question
for a separate discussion. You don't want to use RIT or CWT, because
that will bring one of the adjacent loud signals into your bandpass.
Anyway, the desired signal is too weak to trigger CWT. Likewise, you
don't want to shift your main DSP filter bandpass (the "context");
you've got this set up for where you are and you don't want to change it
just for this one 30-second QSO. If you didn't have an APF, you might
try narrowing the DSP filter bandwidth, but he's far enough
off-frequency that doing so would run the risk of losing his signal,
meaning you would have to fiddle with both SHIFT and WIDTH to home in on
him, and that takes time to do, plus more time to restore them after the
QSO.

What you would really like to be able to do is to adjust an audio peak
filter's frequency so that it is on top of the received weak signal, but
without affecting the context (your DSP shift and width, your sidetone
pitch, or your transmit frequency - these should all stay where they were).

My suggestion would be to use one of the buttons (DUAL PB seems to be a
possible candidate here) to turn the APF feature on, and while the
feature is on, the SHIFT and WIDTH controls would adjust the APF
frequency and width (or Q) and would have no effect on the context
filtering. RIT and SPLIT would still work normally, it's just SHIFT and
WIDTH that would have been subverted to do the APF adjustments while the
APF is on. If you really did want to adjust the context filter width or
shift, you would have to turn APF back off to do so. Once the QSO with
the weak station had been successfully concluded, you could either turn
APF off, or else leave it on with its width adjusted to include the
entire context bandpass, and carry on CQing.

My 2c worth.

73,
Rich VE3KI

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The Smiths

Re: APF For K3

Rich,

that was VERY well put. Even a dummy like me could understand that clearly. I think as much as your idea of the Q being on the Width control is a good one, I may actually rather put that Q setting in the Config menu. I don't see adjusting the Q as often as I would the Frequency of the APF as you described.

One reason that the Shift knob is the best candidate is be because it seems that just like when you put the Dual PB filter on, the Shift is centered you are unable to adjust it, it will be the same with the APF on (or at least this is my understanding at this point). So it really wouldn't make any difference regardless.
I much prefer to keep the Width control active, because I can see that I'll probably end up using that APF on almost all of the time. In that case I want to be able to still operate my Width at any given time without turning on and off my APF to do so.
If it is the case where the Shift doesn't work when the APF is on, than it would be nice if in the future the Shift would retain it's setting until the operator turns off the APF and readjusts it.

> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 16:54:34 -0400
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3
>
> Here is an operational scenario:
>
> You are CQing in the CQ WW CW contest. There are other loud stations
> CQing on either side of you. You have adjusted your SHIFT and WIDTH
> controls to eliminate the adjacent-channel interference while still, you
> hope, being wide enough to catch anyone calling you.
>
> A weak station replies to your CQ, but he's some distance off your
> frequency, although still within your bandpass. You'd like to be able to
> put an audio peaking filter on his signal without affecting the rest of
> your setup.
>
> You don't want to change your sidetone pitch; that's a separate question
> for a separate discussion. You don't want to use RIT or CWT, because
> that will bring one of the adjacent loud signals into your bandpass.
> Anyway, the desired signal is too weak to trigger CWT. Likewise, you
> don't want to shift your main DSP filter bandpass (the "context");
> you've got this set up for where you are and you don't want to change it
> just for this one 30-second QSO. If you didn't have an APF, you might
> try narrowing the DSP filter bandwidth, but he's far enough
> off-frequency that doing so would run the risk of losing his signal,
> meaning you would have to fiddle with both SHIFT and WIDTH to home in on
> him, and that takes time to do, plus more time to restore them after the
> QSO.
>
> What you would really like to be able to do is to adjust an audio peak
> filter's frequency so that it is on top of the received weak signal, but
> without affecting the context (your DSP shift and width, your sidetone
> pitch, or your transmit frequency - these should all stay where they were).
>
> My suggestion would be to use one of the buttons (DUAL PB seems to be a
> possible candidate here) to turn the APF feature on, and while the
> feature is on, the SHIFT and WIDTH controls would adjust the APF
> frequency and width (or Q) and would have no effect on the context
> filtering. RIT and SPLIT would still work normally, it's just SHIFT and
> WIDTH that would have been subverted to do the APF adjustments while the
> APF is on. If you really did want to adjust the context filter width or
> shift, you would have to turn APF back off to do so. Once the QSO with
> the weak station had been successfully concluded, you could either turn
> APF off, or else leave it on with its width adjusted to include the
> entire context bandpass, and carry on CQing.
>
> My 2c worth.
>
> 73,
> Rich VE3KI
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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Lou Kolb

Re: APF For K3

I know it's hard to please everyone in a situation like this but, as a blind
CW op, I'm fervently voting for APF not to be put on a menu. This is an
addition I eagerly anticipate and expect to use a lot. I know we blind ops
are a distinct minority here but, currently, we don't have access to the
menus. Putting it on a front panel control would put it in our hands.
Thanks. lou WA3MIX
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Smiths" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>; "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3

>
> Rich,
>
> that was VERY well put. Even a dummy like me could understand that
> clearly. I think as much as your idea of the Q being on the Width control
> is a good one, I may actually rather put that Q setting in the Config
> menu. I don't see adjusting the Q as often as I would the Frequency of
> the APF as you described.
>
> One reason that the Shift knob is the best candidate is be because it
> seems that just like when you put the Dual PB filter on, the Shift is
> centered you are unable to adjust it, it will be the same with the APF on
> (or at least this is my understanding at this point). So it really
> wouldn't make any difference regardless.
> I much prefer to keep the Width control active, because I can see that
> I'll probably end up using that APF on almost all of the time. In that
> case I want to be able to still operate my Width at any given time without
> turning on and off my APF to do so.
> If it is the case where the Shift doesn't work when the APF is on, than it
> would be nice if in the future the Shift would retain it's setting until
> the operator turns off the APF and readjusts it.
>
>
>> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 16:54:34 -0400
>> From: [hidden email]
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3
>>
>> Here is an operational scenario:
>>
>> You are CQing in the CQ WW CW contest. There are other loud stations
>> CQing on either side of you. You have adjusted your SHIFT and WIDTH
>> controls to eliminate the adjacent-channel interference while still, you
>> hope, being wide enough to catch anyone calling you.
>>
>> A weak station replies to your CQ, but he's some distance off your
>> frequency, although still within your bandpass. You'd like to be able to
>> put an audio peaking filter on his signal without affecting the rest of
>> your setup.
>>
>> You don't want to change your sidetone pitch; that's a separate question
>> for a separate discussion. You don't want to use RIT or CWT, because
>> that will bring one of the adjacent loud signals into your bandpass.
>> Anyway, the desired signal is too weak to trigger CWT. Likewise, you
>> don't want to shift your main DSP filter bandpass (the "context");
>> you've got this set up for where you are and you don't want to change it
>> just for this one 30-second QSO. If you didn't have an APF, you might
>> try narrowing the DSP filter bandwidth, but he's far enough
>> off-frequency that doing so would run the risk of losing his signal,
>> meaning you would have to fiddle with both SHIFT and WIDTH to home in on
>> him, and that takes time to do, plus more time to restore them after the
>> QSO.
>>
>> What you would really like to be able to do is to adjust an audio peak
>> filter's frequency so that it is on top of the received weak signal, but
>> without affecting the context (your DSP shift and width, your sidetone
>> pitch, or your transmit frequency - these should all stay where they
>> were).
>>
>> My suggestion would be to use one of the buttons (DUAL PB seems to be a
>> possible candidate here) to turn the APF feature on, and while the
>> feature is on, the SHIFT and WIDTH controls would adjust the APF
>> frequency and width (or Q) and would have no effect on the context
>> filtering. RIT and SPLIT would still work normally, it's just SHIFT and
>> WIDTH that would have been subverted to do the APF adjustments while the
>> APF is on. If you really did want to adjust the context filter width or
>> shift, you would have to turn APF back off to do so. Once the QSO with
>> the weak station had been successfully concluded, you could either turn
>> APF off, or else leave it on with its width adjusted to include the
>> entire context bandpass, and carry on CQing.
>>
>> My 2c worth.
>>
>> 73,
>> Rich VE3KI
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Lu Romero - W4LT

Re: APF For K3

In reply to this post by Roy Morris-6

Another K3 feature that removes yet another external box in
my system! I can finally get rid of my Autek QF1 when this
is implemented!

I really like this scenario from a control layout logic
standpoint. Great idea, Rich!

One thing, tho, in addition to the panel buttons, there has
to be a command in the command set to "reset" the APF back
to where it was before, hopefully from the git-go. One of
the most confounding things about using my old TS850 with
N1MMLogger was I had to physically punch the RIT button off
and remember to center the knob (it had no center detent
either!). Loved the radio, hated that feature!

Its oh so much easier to include {CLEARRIT} in the TU
message to reset the RIT after a QSO! So I would ask that a
software command to clear the APF also be included with this
feature so that N1MM developer Jedi K3CT can create a
{CLEARAPF} command for the feature (Or possibly anybody
could create one with a CATHEX macro embedded in the TU
message).

I look forward to this feature. I will be among FT1000'ds
this weekend and will explore the APF feature Friday morning
to see how it works (if I have time off during contest
setup). I have never used a modern Yaesu rig in CW, so
there is always a first time!

If its anything like my Autek QF1, I will like it!

See all of you in the pileups (from NQ4I)!

-lu-w4lt-

----------------------

Message: 32
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 16:54:34 -0400
From: Richard Ferch <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APF For K3
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Here is an operational scenario:

You are CQing in the CQ WW CW contest. There are other loud
stations
CQing on either side of you. You have adjusted your SHIFT
and WIDTH
controls to eliminate the adjacent-channel interference
while still, you
hope, being wide enough to catch anyone calling you.

A weak station replies to your CQ, but he's some distance
off your
frequency, although still within your bandpass. You'd like
to be able to
put an audio peaking filter on his signal without affecting
the rest of
your setup.

You don't want to change your sidetone pitch; that's a
separate question
for a separate discussion. You don't want to use RIT or CWT,
because
that will bring one of the adjacent loud signals into your
bandpass.
Anyway, the desired signal is too weak to trigger CWT.
Likewise, you
don't want to shift your main DSP filter bandpass (the
"context");
you've got this set up for where you are and you don't want
to change it
just for this one 30-second QSO. If you didn't have an APF,
you might
try narrowing the DSP filter bandwidth, but he's far enough
off-frequency that doing so would run the risk of losing his
signal,
meaning you would have to fiddle with both SHIFT and WIDTH
to home in on
him, and that takes time to do, plus more time to restore
them after the
QSO.

What you would really like to be able to do is to adjust an
audio peak
filter's frequency so that it is on top of the received weak
signal, but
without affecting the context (your DSP shift and width,
your sidetone
pitch, or your transmit frequency - these should all stay
where they were).

My suggestion would be to use one of the buttons (DUAL PB
seems to be a
possible candidate here) to turn the APF feature on, and
while the
feature is on, the SHIFT and WIDTH controls would adjust the
APF
frequency and width (or Q) and would have no effect on the
context
filtering. RIT and SPLIT would still work normally, it's
just SHIFT and
WIDTH that would have been subverted to do the APF
adjustments while the
APF is on. If you really did want to adjust the context
filter width or
shift, you would have to turn APF back off to do so. Once
the QSO with
the weak station had been successfully concluded, you could
either turn
APF off, or else leave it on with its width adjusted to
include the
entire context bandpass, and carry on CQing.

My 2c worth.

73,
Rich VE3KI

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n7ws

Re: APF For K3

All of this talk about peaky filters for CW makes me want to find the B+ short, that I've been meaning to fix for about 10 years, in the receiver that got me going in this hobby, my original 1941 BC-342N.

The crystal filter in it (and the 75A-1 and a dozen other receivers I've had) worked the same way. We've come full circle.

--- On Wed, 10/27/10, Lu Romero <[hidden email]> wrote:

Another K3 feature that removes yet another external box in
my system! I can finally get rid of my Autek QF1 when this
is implemented!

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K7TV

APF for K3

In reply to this post by Roy Morris-6

Wes Stewart wrote:

"The crystal filter in it (and the 75A-1 and a dozen other receivers I've
had) worked the same way. We've come full circle."

I feel that this discussion hit the nail on the head only when it combined
the environmental filtering with the peak as in the FT-1000D. Going back to
the bad old days of a peaky xtal filter in a super wide environment is
something I don't wish for. The KX-1 is my favorite portable for its
lightness, but it reminds me of those old rigs: Either the peak is too
narrow or the environment is too wide. A square bandpass as offered by the
K3 without APF, or even the 500 Hz square bandpass offered by my FT-817, is
far better when it comes to making this operator comfortable.

73,

Erik K7TV

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Guy, K2AV

Re: APF For K3

In reply to this post by n7ws

Not everything old is bad, and not everything new is good. Or more
hopefully, like the wedding tradition: "...something old, something
new...".

With the "square space" first set by the roofing filter and regular
DSP for adjacent channel rejection, so it's NOT too wide, and the APF
set LESS severely because it's not the main means of adjacent channel
rejection, and it's only function to JUST peak up a weak signal enough
to hear it out of the noise, we well may have something that fits the
old wedding promise, ...something old, something new...

73, Guy.

On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 2:14 AM, Wes Stewart <[hidden email]> wrote:

> All of this talk about peaky filters for CW makes me want to find the B+ short, that I've been meaning to fix for about 10 years, in the receiver that got me going in this hobby, my original 1941 BC-342N.
>
> The crystal filter in it (and the 75A-1 and a dozen other receivers I've had) worked the same way. We've come full circle.
>
> --- On Wed, 10/27/10, Lu Romero <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Another K3 feature that removes yet another external box in
> my system! I can finally get rid of my Autek QF1 when this
> is implemented!
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Alan Bloom

BC342 Was: APF For K3

In reply to this post by n7ws

On Wed, 2010-10-27 at 23:14 -0700, Wes Stewart wrote:
> All of this talk about peaky filters for CW makes me want to find the B+ short, that I've been meaning to fix for about 10 years, in the receiver that got me going in this hobby, my original 1941 BC-342N.

I had the same problem in my BC342. It turned out to be a bad power
supply bypass capacitor. I replaced it and the radio worked for awhile
and then the B+ shorted out again. When I get time I plan to open it up
again and replace all the bypass caps.

Alan N1AL

> The crystal filter in it (and the 75A-1 and a dozen other receivers I've had) worked the same way. We've come full circle.
>
> --- On Wed, 10/27/10, Lu Romero <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Another K3 feature that removes yet another external box in
> my system! I can finally get rid of my Autek QF1 when this
> is implemented!
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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12345