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APF Results at an Old Timer's shack

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Jim Rogers, W4ATK

APF Results at an Old Timer's shack

Well, I just wasn't sure I would use it, I had such good results with
just the DUAL PB function. So I sought out the weakest signal I could
find this morning, R5ZZ, who was not copiable here, but I could hear
some Ws working him. I dialed in the APF and there he was, and
copiable. So mea culpa. I am now a convert. Old Dogs can learn new
tricks.

73s Jim, W4ATK
JIM ROGERS
[hidden email]
http://web.me.com/jimrogers_w4atk

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n7ws

Re: APF Results at an Old Timer's shack

To this old dog's ears there is way too much ringing.

Even in my EME days I never felt the need for these super narrow filters. I used a passive 200 Hz wide filter centered on 600 Hz. A few hours of listening to noise in a too-narrow filter and you start hearing things that aren't there, especially with some distortion thrown in, and ringing is distortion.

Today I prefer a lower beat note (~450 Hz) and a couple of hundred Hz BW is fine most of the time.

Wes

--- On Thu, 11/4/10, JAMES ROGERS <[hidden email]> wrote:

Well, I just wasn't sure I would use it, I had such good results with
just the DUAL PB function. So I sought out the weakest signal I could
find this morning, R5ZZ, who was not copiable here, but I could hear
some Ws working him. I dialed in the APF and there he was, and
copiable. So mea culpa. I am now a convert. Old Dogs can learn new
tricks.

73s Jim, W4ATK
JIM ROGERS
[hidden email]
http://web.me.com/jimrogers_w4atk

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Jim Cox

Re: APF Results at an Old Timer's shack

I agree Wes, way too much ringing for my taste. I have never cared for the
ultra narrow filters myself.
I listened using the APF on 80 cw last evening, works well but the
distortion certainly hurts the copy.

Jim K4JAF

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wes Stewart" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>; "JAMES ROGERS"
<[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APF Results at an Old Timer's shack

To this old dog's ears there is way too much ringing.

Even in my EME days I never felt the need for these super narrow filters. I
used a passive 200 Hz wide filter centered on 600 Hz. A few hours of
listening to noise in a too-narrow filter and you start hearing things that
aren't there, especially with some distortion thrown in, and ringing is
distortion.

Today I prefer a lower beat note (~450 Hz) and a couple of hundred Hz BW is
fine most of the time.

Wes

--- On Thu, 11/4/10, JAMES ROGERS <[hidden email]> wrote:

Well, I just wasn't sure I would use it, I had such good results with
just the DUAL PB function. So I sought out the weakest signal I could
find this morning, R5ZZ, who was not copiable here, but I could hear
some Ws working him. I dialed in the APF and there he was, and
copiable. So mea culpa. I am now a convert. Old Dogs can learn new
tricks.

73s Jim, W4ATK
JIM ROGERS
[hidden email]
http://web.me.com/jimrogers_w4atk

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Greg - AB7R

Re: APF Results at an Old Timer's shack

In reply to this post by Jim Rogers, W4ATK

I don't see this as something that would be left on ALL the time. Only used as needed. It does help make an
otherwise unworkable station readable for a contact. Just another tool in the box. When you don't need it, turn it off. I have not tried this yet
but you can probably turn it off with a CAT command in the appropriate logger macro in the same way you CLEAR RIT. Then just turn it on as needed.

-------------------------
73,
Greg - AB7R
Whidbey Island WA
NA-065

On Thu Nov 4 8:07 , "Jim Cox" sent:

>I agree Wes, way too much ringing for my taste. I have never cared for the
>ultra narrow filters myself.
>I listened using the APF on 80 cw last evening, works well but the
>distortion certainly hurts the copy.
>
>Jim K4JAF
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Wes Stewart" [hidden email]>
>To: "Elecraft Reflector" [hidden email]>; "JAMES ROGERS"
>[hidden email]>
>Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 9:57 AM
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APF Results at an Old Timer's shack
>
>
>To this old dog's ears there is way too much ringing.
>
>Even in my EME days I never felt the need for these super narrow filters. I
>used a passive 200 Hz wide filter centered on 600 Hz. A few hours of
>listening to noise in a too-narrow filter and you start hearing things that
>aren't there, especially with some distortion thrown in, and ringing is
>distortion.
>
>Today I prefer a lower beat note (~450 Hz) and a couple of hundred Hz BW is
>fine most of the time.
>
>Wes
>
>--- On Thu, 11/4/10, JAMES ROGERS [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>Well, I just wasn't sure I would use it, I had such good results with
>just the DUAL PB function. So I sought out the weakest signal I could
>find this morning, R5ZZ, who was not copiable here, but I could hear
>some Ws working him. I dialed in the APF and there he was, and
>copiable. So mea culpa. I am now a convert. Old Dogs can learn new
>tricks.
>
>73s Jim, W4ATK
>JIM ROGERS
>[hidden email]
>http://web.me.com/jimrogers_w4atk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: [hidden email]','','','')">[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>______________________________________________________________
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>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
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drewko

Re: APF Results at an Old Timer's shack

There was a suggestion posted within the last few days to reduce the
ring by adjusting the APF SHIFT along with RIT by 20 Hz. This might
make a nice one--push macro but I don't think there is a APF SHIFT
command available yet (The IF SHIFT command does not work in APF.)

Also, for for those who want less ringing you can try a wider WIDTH.
If your CW bandwidth is typically set at 500 Hz or less try opeining
the WIDTH to 1-2 KHz when using APF, if the conditions permit.

73,
Drew
AF2Z

On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 11:32:53 -0400, Greg - AB7R wrote:

Bob K6UJ

Re: APF Results at an Old Timer's shack

In reply to this post by n7ws

For this old dog it is great !
I very much like the peak, works very well at pulling the weak signal up
for much better copy. Congratulations Elecraft this is a super tool for CW !

Now the bad news.
My Yaesu FT1000 was switched in when needed on CW receive just for the APF to pull
a borderline CW signal up out of the mud. Looks like he will not be needed
anymore. You have been a great radio FT1000 (sniff, sniff )

73,
Bob
K6UJ

On Nov 4, 2010, at 7:57 AM, Wes Stewart wrote:

> To this old dog's ears there is way too much ringing.
>
> Even in my EME days I never felt the need for these super narrow filters. I used a passive 200 Hz wide filter centered on 600 Hz. A few hours of listening to noise in a too-narrow filter and you start hearing things that aren't there, especially with some distortion thrown in, and ringing is distortion.
>
> Today I prefer a lower beat note (~450 Hz) and a couple of hundred Hz BW is fine most of the time.
>
> Wes
>
> --- On Thu, 11/4/10, JAMES ROGERS <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Well, I just wasn't sure I would use it, I had such good results with
> just the DUAL PB function. So I sought out the weakest signal I could
> find this morning, R5ZZ, who was not copiable here, but I could hear
> some Ws working him. I dialed in the APF and there he was, and
> copiable. So mea culpa. I am now a convert. Old Dogs can learn new
> tricks.
>
> 73s Jim, W4ATK
> JIM ROGERS
> [hidden email]
> http://web.me.com/jimrogers_w4atk
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO

Re: APF Results at an Old Timer's shack

In reply to this post by drewko

This method does diminish the ringing -- offsetting the APF peak using SHIFT
and the receive frequency using RIT. 20 Hz seems to be about right, too. The
bad ringing only occurs when the peak frequency and the center of the
passband coincide exactly. I had a lot of fun this morning, right after
installing the new firmware, listening in on a guy in 9-land running JAs on
40 CW, tuning in the weaker JAs with the APF shift inside the 200 Hz IF
passband. Really cool. Being able to tune the peak in 5-Hz increments will
be especially cool, so I'm looking forward to the next update.

Whether you respond positively or negatively to the characteristics of a
narrow passband seems to be a very individual thing. I've even heard guys
say they prefer to copy CW in a wide-open SSB width passband, filtering out
QRM only with their "wetware". Been there, done that. I cut my eye-teeth as
a Novice in the early 1960s doing this because I didn't have any other
choice; my cheap-o NC-60 receiver didn't have any selectivity to speak of.
But I began to appreciate selectivity as soon as I started experiencing it,
and since then, it's been "the more the better." I love the new APF! It
reminds me of how the "peak" function in the old Heathkit QF-1 Q-Multiplier
used to work and sound, except it's even better.

Bill W5WVO

-----Original Message-----
From: drewko
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 16:10
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APF Results at an Old Timer's shack

There was a suggestion posted within the last few days to reduce the
ring by adjusting the APF SHIFT along with RIT by 20 Hz. This might
make a nice one--push macro but I don't think there is a APF SHIFT
command available yet (The IF SHIFT command does not work in APF.)

Also, for for those who want less ringing you can try a wider WIDTH.
If your CW bandwidth is typically set at 500 Hz or less try opeining
the WIDTH to 1-2 KHz when using APF, if the conditions permit.

73,
Drew
AF2Z

On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 11:32:53 -0400, Greg - AB7R wrote:

>I don't see this as something that would be left on ALL the time. Only
>used as needed. It does help make an
>otherwise unworkable station readable for a contact. Just another tool in
>the box. When you don't need it, turn it off. I have not tried this yet
>but you can probably turn it off with a CAT command in the appropriate
>logger macro in the same way you CLEAR RIT. Then just turn it on as
>needed.
>
>-------------------------
>73,
>Greg - AB7R
>Whidbey Island WA
>NA-065
>

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Bob K6UJ

Re: APF Results at an Old Timer's shack

In reply to this post by Greg - AB7R

Greg,

I agree 100% It is a tool and is there for the specific use of pulling a weak CW signal up out of the mud
so you can copy him. Turn on when needed. The Yaesu FT1000's, early issues, had great APF
and had a little ringing but they worked very well, the little ringing goes with the territory with the sharp
peaking. You didn't leave them on all the time, really worked well when needed. Then Yaesu responded
to the issue of the ringing and in later versions the ringing was gone but the peaking was reduced and APF wasn't
very effective. Then............. mods came out to restore the previous peaking effectiveness, (and slight ringing) hi,hi.
I don't know how to best describe it but it is a "sharp" CW listening experience.
There are other "tools" on the K3, narrow filters, etc that we use for improved copy on CW signals and the APF
is another for really digging in (when needed)

Bob
K6UJ

On Nov 4, 2010, at 8:32 AM, Greg - AB7R wrote:

> I don't see this as something that would be left on ALL the time. Only used as needed. It does help make an
> otherwise unworkable station readable for a contact. Just another tool in the box. When you don't need it, turn it off. I have not tried this yet
> but you can probably turn it off with a CAT command in the appropriate logger macro in the same way you CLEAR RIT. Then just turn it on as needed.
>
> -------------------------
> 73,
> Greg - AB7R
> Whidbey Island WA
> NA-065
>
>
> On Thu Nov 4 8:07 , "Jim Cox" sent:
>
>> I agree Wes, way too much ringing for my taste. I have never cared for the
>> ultra narrow filters myself.
>> I listened using the APF on 80 cw last evening, works well but the
>> distortion certainly hurts the copy.
>>
>> Jim K4JAF
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Wes Stewart" [hidden email]>
>> To: "Elecraft Reflector" [hidden email]>; "JAMES ROGERS"
>> [hidden email]>
>> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 9:57 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APF Results at an Old Timer's shack
>>
>>
>> To this old dog's ears there is way too much ringing.
>>
>> Even in my EME days I never felt the need for these super narrow filters. I
>> used a passive 200 Hz wide filter centered on 600 Hz. A few hours of
>> listening to noise in a too-narrow filter and you start hearing things that
>> aren't there, especially with some distortion thrown in, and ringing is
>> distortion.
>>
>> Today I prefer a lower beat note (~450 Hz) and a couple of hundred Hz BW is
>> fine most of the time.
>>
>> Wes
>>
>> --- On Thu, 11/4/10, JAMES ROGERS [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Well, I just wasn't sure I would use it, I had such good results with
>> just the DUAL PB function. So I sought out the weakest signal I could
>> find this morning, R5ZZ, who was not copiable here, but I could hear
>> some Ws working him. I dialed in the APF and there he was, and
>> copiable. So mea culpa. I am now a convert. Old Dogs can learn new
>> tricks.
>>
>> 73s Jim, W4ATK
>> JIM ROGERS
>> [hidden email]
>> http://web.me.com/jimrogers_w4atk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: [hidden email]','','','')">[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: [hidden email]','','','')">[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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