Antenna wire question for long spans

[n0evh]

I have an opportunity to put up an end fed long wire at our EOC for use on 40,
80 and 160.  The span distance is 270 feet, a real handy length for regional
communication on low bands.  Height will be about 65 feet.  We will tune it
remotely with an SGC tuner.  My concern is what type of wire will take that
long of a span and hold up to wind and ice we have here in the midwest.

Would appreciate comments from those who have had long spans of wire up in the
air.

John N0EVH (Every Volt Helps)



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[Don Wilhelm-3]

John,

I have no direct experience with your icing/wind conditions, but I would
figure that #12 copperweld would be the best weight to strength ratio that
you could muster.

If you can support the wire at a midway point, the weight will only be a
factor over half the span length, the sag will be reduced dramatically, (by
a fator of at least 4), and the tension requirements will be significantly
reduced.  If you are using trees for supports, remember that they sway in
the wind, and antenna breakage will most frequently occur because of
stresses in the wire resulting from that swaying.  The use of
counterbalances or 'bungie cords' to compensate for the tree swaying is
imperitive in a wire that length (and resulting tension requirements).

73,
Don W3FPR

> -----Original Message-----
>
> I have an opportunity to put up an end fed long wire at our EOC
> for use on 40,
> 80 and 160.  The span distance is 270 feet, a real handy length
> for regional
> communication on low bands.  Height will be about 65 feet.  We
> will tune it
> remotely with an SGC tuner.  My concern is what type of wire will
> take that
> long of a span and hold up to wind and ice we have here in the midwest.
>
> Would appreciate comments from those who have had long spans of
> wire up in the
> air.
>
> John N0EVH (Every Volt Helps)
>
>
>
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[Vin Cortina]

John,

Only my 2 cents worth, but for a length that long, I am thinking 10 gauge,
due to the fact it has to support its own weight entirely.  12 would
probably work, but I would fear for its longevity.  Is it possible to
support it somewhere along its length?  Also, I would try to get a quality
insulated wire.  Not just cheap plastic insulation, but one where the jacket
is covered by a protective sheathing.  I use this type, but I got it from a
friend, and I have no idea where it came from.

Let's see how the rest of the gang chimes in.

Vin  KR2F

K1-4 s/n:1977
KX1  s/n:1476


----- Original Message -----
From: "n0evh" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 11:38 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Antenna wire question for long spans

>I have an opportunity to put up an end fed long wire at our EOC for use on
>40,
> 80 and 160.  The span distance is 270 feet, a real handy length for
> regional
> communication on low bands.  Height will be about 65 feet.  We will tune
> it
> remotely with an SGC tuner.  My concern is what type of wire will take
> that
> long of a span and hold up to wind and ice we have here in the midwest.
>
> Would appreciate comments from those who have had long spans of wire up in
> the
> air.
>
> John N0EVH (Every Volt Helps)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com 

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[Tom Skinner-3]

Hi John,

The only advice I can offer is from experience.  Unless you string it up on
a very cold day, be sure to leave a good catenary for contraction later on.

Tom, KJ3D

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of n0evh
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 11:38 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Antenna wire question for long spans

I have an opportunity to put up an end fed long wire at our EOC for use on
40,
80 and 160.  The span distance is 270 feet, a real handy length for regional
communication on low bands.  Height will be about 65 feet.  We will tune it
remotely with an SGC tuner.  My concern is what type of wire will take that
long of a span and hold up to wind and ice we have here in the midwest.

Would appreciate comments from those who have had long spans of wire up in
the
air.

John N0EVH (Every Volt Helps)



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[Pat n8vw]

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 22:38:04 -0500, n0evh <[hidden email]> wrote :

> I have an opportunity to put up an end fed long wire at our EOC for use on 40,
> 80 and 160.  The span distance is 270 feet, a real handy length for regional
> communication on low bands.  Height will be about 65 feet.  We will tune it
> remotely with an SGC tuner.  My concern is what type of wire will take that
> long of a span and hold up to wind and ice we have here in the midwest.
>
> Would appreciate comments from those who have had long spans of wire up in the
> air.
>

Some kind of copperweld would be the best bet.  The 500+ foot one at W8LT
was up for 30+ years and used #10.

History:
http://arc.org.ohio-state.edu/history.php

Picture of the longwire:
http://arc.org.ohio-state.edu/images/station/old/3.jpg

I worked a VU2 on 75m with that antenna one winter.

Pat N8VW
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[Stephen W. Kercel]

Two more cents worth:

Go to

http://www.surplussales.com/Antennas/Antennas-9.html

and check out WUN(TWA).

I'm not sure it is practical for Ham use, but its cool stuff.

73,

Steve
AA4AK

At 08:18 AM 8/18/2006, Vin Cortina wrote:

>John,
>
>Only my 2 cents worth, but for a length that long, I am thinking 10
>gauge, due to the fact it has to support its own weight
>entirely.  12 would probably work, but I would fear for its
>longevity.  Is it possible to support it somewhere along its
>length?  Also, I would try to get a quality insulated wire.  Not
>just cheap plastic insulation, but one where the jacket is covered
>by a protective sheathing.  I use this type, but I got it from a
>friend, and I have no idea where it came from.
>
>Let's see how the rest of the gang chimes in.
>
>Vin  KR2F

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[Ian Stirling, G4ICV, AB2GR]

On Thursday 17 August 2006 23:38, n0evh wrote:

> Would appreciate comments from those who have had long spans of wire up in the
> air.

  My house is surrounded by trees.
 I have 500 feet of wire threaded over and through
the trees using a catapult (slingshot). The wire at
the far end descends to a spool with another 500 feet
of wire, ready for when the trees are bare so that
I can finish a horizontal loop (if I ever do).
So currently, it is an end-fed unfinished loop, the end
entering the basement from the top of a 50' tree
 to an SG-231 tuner.
  I bought the wire at Home Depot - 12 gauge insulated
copper multistranded.  It has withstood five years of
weather and trees mightily swaying in countless storms.
 It appears to have stretched or slipped over the years
 - the join I made in the middle of the 1000 feet of
wire is now near the ground at the spool whereas it was
up in the trees a couple of years ago.
  In 27 years as a radio amateur, I have used only my
own wire aerials - end-feds, dipoles, inverted Vs, loops,
verticals and whatnots.  I regarded them all as temporary
and experimental, not minding if they broke, fell down
or were dismantled - the inevitable fate of them all.

Ian, G4ICV, AB2GR, K2 #4962
--
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[Richard Kent]

John,
        I found this web site looking for wire for a friend. He volunteered
for a military airplane restoration club in my area. He needed a wire that
could take the prop blast. One of the wires was as close as he could find to
the original wire specified by the drawings he found.

http://thewireman.com/antennap.html 

Also, I have no connection to this business other than finding them on the
web.

Richard Kent, WD8AJG  

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[Trevor Day]

In message <[hidden email]>, n0evh
<[hidden email]> writes

>I have an opportunity to put up an end fed long wire at our EOC for use on 40,
>80 and 160.  The span distance is 270 feet, a real handy length for regional
>communication on low bands.  Height will be about 65 feet.  We will tune it
>remotely with an SGC tuner.  My concern is what type of wire will take that
>long of a span and hold up to wind and ice we have here in the midwest.
>
>Would appreciate comments from those who have had long spans of wire up in the
>air.
>
>John N0EVH (Every Volt Helps)

I used to run exactly that configuration throughout the 70's.  Not much
in the way of ice to worry about but plenty of wind.  I used Hard drawn
stranded copper which was available from Radio Shack in 50 or 100ft
lengths, I can't recall which.  A single run with a bit of slack to
compensate for tree movement.  It ran NW/SE favouring the USA off one
end and put out a cracking signal on 20m, I wish I still had it!

The only problem I ever had was due to an irate neighbour.  One morning
I found my antenna in neat 1 foot lengths stacked at the bottom of my
garden  :-)

Trev G3ZYY
--
Trevor Day
UKSMG #217
www.uksmg.org

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[OH7PS]

John

How about this: Copper-coated steel wire. In the USA this wire goes by the
name of "copperweld" or "copperclad steel".

Diameter is 1 mm and black coating is UV-resistant. Takes loads up to 40kg.

Most important of all it's almost stealth and Your neighbours will love it.
;))

73's Pentti
oh7ps





-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of n0evh
Sent: 18. elokuuta 2006 6:38
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Antenna wire question for long spans

I have an opportunity to put up an end fed long wire at our EOC for use on
40,
80 and 160.  The span distance is 270 feet, a real handy length for regional
communication on low bands.  Height will be about 65 feet.  We will tune it
remotely with an SGC tuner.  My concern is what type of wire will take that
long of a span and hold up to wind and ice we have here in the midwest.

Would appreciate comments from those who have had long spans of wire up in
the
air.

John N0EVH (Every Volt Helps)



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[Stuart Rohre]

For an EOC operation, you want an omni direction of coverage.  Put a usual
antenna height, and end fed 270 foot wire on 40 m or even 80, is going to be
getting to be directional toward the far end of the wire.

MUCH better for EOC use is to put up such a wire as a center fed doublet.
Then it could be tuned on any band 60m 75m 40m, 20m and up.

If your primary coverage is your own state and adjoining states, put it up
at an NVIS height, which is 0.15 wavelength or less at the lowest band you
might use.

Stuart
K5KVH  (Veteran of a very long 400 foot wire, which did not work out as I
had hoped ie, little DX as it was TOO directional!)


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