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Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time?

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David Orman

Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time?

Hi,

I'd like to have serial output via db9 and also usb at the same time with
my KX3. Is this something possible? ie: have the cable run from my
KXPA100(I have a KX3/KXPA100/PX3 trio) to some sort of external box with a
DB9connector using the KXSER option, and that box would have a second
DB9port (or cable running from it) so I could connect something else that
needed serial access, in addition to a USB port (or another serial port) I
could use to connect to my PC.

I need something that ends up like this:

KX3/KXPA100/PX3 (firmware updates/backups/computer control) -> MAGIC BOX
MAGIC BOX -> another accessory via DB9/serial
MAGIC BOX -> computer via USB ideally, or via serial with an adapter for
USB for the computer

I'm not having a whole lot of luck searching Google for something of this
nature, so I'm looking for suggestions (open to completely different
solutions).

Thank you,
David
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Re: Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time?

Do a google search for LP-Bridge

From: David Orman <[hidden email]>
To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 7:19 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time?

Hi,

I'd like to have serial output via db9 and also usb at the same time with
my KX3. Is this something possible? ie: have the cable run from my
KXPA100(I have a KX3/KXPA100/PX3 trio) to some sort of external box with a
DB9connector using the KXSER option, and that box would have a second
DB9port (or cable running from it) so I could connect something else that
needed serial access, in addition to a USB port (or another serial port) I
could use to connect to my PC.

I need something that ends up like this:

KX3/KXPA100/PX3 (firmware updates/backups/computer control) -> MAGIC BOX
MAGIC BOX -> another accessory via DB9/serial
MAGIC BOX -> computer via USB ideally, or via serial with an adapter for
USB for the computer

I'm not having a whole lot of luck searching Google for something of this
nature, so I'm looking for suggestions (open to completely different
solutions).

Thank you,
David
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Don Wilhelm

Re: Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time?

In reply to this post by David Orman

David,

The solution for the KX3 and KXPA100 is greatly simplified if you use
the KX3 to KXPA100 adapter cable.
You connect the KXPA100 to the personal computer and the adapter cable
splits out the RS-232 signalling to the KX3. See the connections on
page 14 of the KXPA100 manual. The KX3USB cable connects between the
KXPA100 and the PC.

No MAGIC BOX needed.

The PX3 does not have to be continuously connected to the computer. For
firmware updates, Configuration Save and Restore, you can connect a
KX3USB cable and run the PX3 Utility for those operations (those are
done off-line and not real-time).

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/19/2017 7:19 PM, David Orman wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'd like to have serial output via db9 and also usb at the same time with
> my KX3. Is this something possible? ie: have the cable run from my
> KXPA100(I have a KX3/KXPA100/PX3 trio) to some sort of external box with a
> DB9connector using the KXSER option, and that box would have a second
> DB9port (or cable running from it) so I could connect something else that
> needed serial access, in addition to a USB port (or another serial port) I
> could use to connect to my PC.
>
> I need something that ends up like this:
>
> KX3/KXPA100/PX3 (firmware updates/backups/computer control) -> MAGIC BOX
> MAGIC BOX -> another accessory via DB9/serial
> MAGIC BOX -> computer via USB ideally, or via serial with an adapter for
> USB for the computer
>

David Orman

Re: Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time?

Hi Don,

This is what I'm currently doing. I need an additional RS232 output in
addition to the connection to the PC for an external device that needs to
track the vfo frequency of the KX3. I'd like to have the PC able to track
what frequency/control what frequency my radio is tuned to, and at the same
time have my external device also tracking the frequency the KX3 is tuned
to. I apologize for being less than clear. :)

David

On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> David,
>
> The solution for the KX3 and KXPA100 is greatly simplified if you use the
> KX3 to KXPA100 adapter cable.
> You connect the KXPA100 to the personal computer and the adapter cable
> splits out the RS-232 signalling to the KX3. See the connections on page
> 14 of the KXPA100 manual. The KX3USB cable connects between the KXPA100
> and the PC.
>
> No MAGIC BOX needed.
>
> The PX3 does not have to be continuously connected to the computer. For
> firmware updates, Configuration Save and Restore, you can connect a KX3USB
> cable and run the PX3 Utility for those operations (those are done off-line
> and not real-time).
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
>
>
> On 1/19/2017 7:19 PM, David Orman wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'd like to have serial output via db9 and also usb at the same time with
>> my KX3. Is this something possible? ie: have the cable run from my
>> KXPA100(I have a KX3/KXPA100/PX3 trio) to some sort of external box with a
>> DB9connector using the KXSER option, and that box would have a second
>> DB9port (or cable running from it) so I could connect something else that
>> needed serial access, in addition to a USB port (or another serial port) I
>> could use to connect to my PC.
>>
>> I need something that ends up like this:
>>
>> KX3/KXPA100/PX3 (firmware updates/backups/computer control) -> MAGIC BOX
>> MAGIC BOX -> another accessory via DB9/serial
>> MAGIC BOX -> computer via USB ideally, or via serial with an adapter for
>> USB for the computer
>>
>>

Don Wilhelm

Re: Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time?

David,

The LP-Bridge application has an output that you can set up which will
send some information to another serial port on the computer. See the
LP-Bridge documentation at www.telepostinc.com.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/19/2017 10:53 PM, David Orman wrote:

> Hi Don,
>
> This is what I'm currently doing. I need an additional RS232 output in
> addition to the connection to the PC for an external device that needs
> to track the vfo frequency of the KX3. I'd like to have the PC able to
> track what frequency/control what frequency my radio is tuned to, and
> at the same time have my external device also tracking the frequency
> the KX3 is tuned to. I apologize for being less than clear. :)
>
> David
>

tomb18

Re: Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time?

In reply to this post by David Orman

HiYou should check out win3k3 suite. It does exactly what you wish.Tomva2fsq.com

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: David Orman <[hidden email]> Date: 2017-01-19 10:53 PM (GMT-05:00) To: [hidden email] Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time?
Hi Don,

This is what I'm currently doing. I need an additional RS232 output in
addition to the connection to the PC for an external device that needs to
track the vfo frequency of the KX3. I'd like to have the PC able to track
what frequency/control what frequency my radio is tuned to, and at the same
time have my external device also tracking the frequency the KX3 is tuned
to. I apologize for being less than clear. :)

David

On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

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David Orman

Re: Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time?

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

Thank you (everyone). I'm a Linux user so was hoping for a HW based
solution but sounds like LP bridge is the answer based on the responses to
this thread. Dual boot, here I come.

David

On Jan 19, 2017 22:47, "Don Wilhelm" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> David,
>
> The LP-Bridge application has an output that you can set up which will
> send some information to another serial port on the computer. See the
> LP-Bridge documentation at www.telepostinc.com.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 1/19/2017 10:53 PM, David Orman wrote:
>
>> Hi Don,
>>
>> This is what I'm currently doing. I need an additional RS232 output in
>> addition to the connection to the PC for an external device that needs to
>> track the vfo frequency of the KX3. I'd like to have the PC able to track
>> what frequency/control what frequency my radio is tuned to, and at the same
>> time have my external device also tracking the frequency the KX3 is tuned
>> to. I apologize for being less than clear. :)
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time?

On 1/19/2017 10:53 PM, David Orman wrote:
>>> I need an additional RS232 output in addition to the connection
>>> to the PC for an external device that needs to track the vfo
>>> frequency of the KX3. I'd like to have the PC able to track what
>>> frequency/control what frequency my radio is tuned to, and at the
>>> same time have my external device also tracking the frequency the
>>> KX3 is tuned to.

David,

What is the external device? Does it need to poll the KX3 or is it
satisfied by seeing the IF; and/or FA; responses to the logging
software?

RS-232 is a point to point protocol and does not allow for multiple
active transmitters at the same time. However, in some cases one
can attach a second "receive only" device in parallel. The typical
connection is shown in the SteppIR "Y cable" schematic that I have
sent to you directly (ignore the jumper between pins 7 and 9 as that
is SteppIR specific).

If both the computer and hardware device must poll independently,
you might be able to get away with a "Modem Data Splitter" like
one of these from B&B Electronics:
http://www.bb-elec.com/Products/Serial-Connectivity/Serial-Data-Tools-Adapters/Port-Splitters.aspx>
but you need to be careful that both the logger and hardware device
do not send data to the KX3 at the same time since the modem data
splitter is passive (diode isolation) and the data will be corrupted
if both devices transmit at the same time.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

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Elecraft mailing list

Re: Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time?

In reply to this post by David Orman

LP-Bridge is the free solution and you could possible even run it in a windows session under Virtual Box.

There are hardware solutions out there to do what you want. I had looked into them in the past when I was considering moving back to Linux.

From: David Orman <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2017 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time?

Thank you (everyone). I'm a Linux user so was hoping for a HW based
solution but sounds like LP bridge is the answer based on the responses to
this thread. Dual boot, here I come.

David

On Jan 19, 2017 22:47, "Don Wilhelm" <[hidden email]> wrote:

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David Orman

Re: Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time?

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Hi Joe,

It's an external automatic tuner for my small transmitting loop. Like the
SteppIR device, it should just be grabbing frequency data from the radio.
I'm not sure if it uses polling or not to get this data, however, as I
don't actually own the device yet (looking at purchasing the upgraded tuner
for specifically this use case, assuming I can figure out how to make it
work.) I saw in the programmer's reference there's some auto-info mode that
has the radio emit frequency on front-panel operation, and the ATU may
enable that. Unfortunately, the ATU doesn't indicate exactly how it does
communication.

Thank you,
David

On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 1/19/2017 10:53 PM, David Orman wrote:
>
>> I need an additional RS232 output in addition to the connection
>>>> to the PC for an external device that needs to track the vfo
>>>> frequency of the KX3. I'd like to have the PC able to track what
>>>> frequency/control what frequency my radio is tuned to, and at the
>>>> same time have my external device also tracking the frequency the
>>>> KX3 is tuned to.
>>>>
>>>
> David,
>
> What is the external device? Does it need to poll the KX3 or is it
> satisfied by seeing the IF; and/or FA; responses to the logging
> software?
>
> RS-232 is a point to point protocol and does not allow for multiple
> active transmitters at the same time. However, in some cases one
> can attach a second "receive only" device in parallel. The typical
> connection is shown in the SteppIR "Y cable" schematic that I have
> sent to you directly (ignore the jumper between pins 7 and 9 as that
> is SteppIR specific).
>
> If both the computer and hardware device must poll independently,
> you might be able to get away with a "Modem Data Splitter" like
> one of these from B&B Electronics: http://www.bb-elec.com/Product
> s/Serial-Connectivity/Serial-Data-Tools-Adapters/Port-Splitters.aspx>
> but you need to be careful that both the logger and hardware device
> do not send data to the KX3 at the same time since the modem data
> splitter is passive (diode isolation) and the data will be corrupted
> if both devices transmit at the same time.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>

David Orman

Re: Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time?

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Hi,

I picked up a modem splitter (Black Box TL115A) and tried to make this work
with no luck. If I connect my computer's output directly to the KXPA100
serial out cable, it works fine. If I connect the ATU to the KXPA100 serial
out, it works fine. If I put the splitter in place, even if I only just
connect the computer, I cannot communicate with the KXPA100. Same re: the
ATU. Connecting both does not work either. I did get these devices off eBay
(I was shipped two, actually) but neither appears to work - not sure if
this is faulty adapters or if this mechanism just doesn't work in general.
I only spent $10 on them, so it's no big loss, but I'd sure hate to go
spend $80 on the BCE model to have the same results.

Is there a way to make this work without software, so I can still control
the KX3/KXPA100/PX3 via the computer, but the ATU can read frequency data?
I'm considering one of those Y-splitters (one male to two female?) but I'm
worried that this will prevent me from being able to use the computer to
change the frequency on the radio.

I'm still trying to solve this outside of a software solution, that's my
last resort if I can't make something work in hardware.

Thank you all again,
David

On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:

Don Wilhelm

Re: Any ideas on how to run serial (DB9) and USBserial at the same time?

David, (caution, long explanation)

I am not certain how the "Black Box TL115A" achieves a splitter
function, but if it does not have smarts to allow only one RS-232 device
at a time to transmit, it will not work properly.
Similarly, a simple "Y" splitter will not work.

To answer the "why" of the problem - look at the RS-232 switching
levels. The driver level for a logic 1 (mark) is at a negative voltage
while a logic 0 (space) is a positive voltage. The actual voltage can
range from +3 to +15 volts for a logic 0 and -15 to -3 volts for a logic 1.

Imagine what happens if one device tries to send a logic 0 while the
other device tries to send a logic 1. The voltages will "fight" with
one another and the result will be garbage.

For a "Black Box" to work properly, it must act as a 'traffic cop' to
allow only one device to transmit data at a time. That means the
'traffic cop' must control the DTR and CTS control lines - and that the
two devices must honor those control lines to indicate when to send.

The Elecraft KXPA100 only connects the TXD and RXD signals, which means
it cannot honor the DTR and CTS control signals. Your ATU may be
similar. In other words, there is no 'handshaking' to tell which device
can transmit data.

For purposes of the KXPA100 (and KX3 and PX3), neither your device nor a
splitter will function correctly.

The only device that will work on a single RS-232 port with the KXPA100
(or other gear) is the SteppIR controller or other gear that can be
configured to only listen to the data between the KXPA100 and the PC (it
never transmits data). In that case, a simple "Y" cable will suffice,
no more complex "traffic cop" device is needed.

You did not say what ATU you are trying to connect, so I can't say how
it applies to this situation. If it only listens to the data (either
has no driver on the DE-9 pin 2 signal [RXD] or disables that driver),
then it will work with a "Y" splitter cable, but otherwise it will
conflict with data sent from the KXPA100 to the PC.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/6/2017 10:12 PM, David Orman wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I picked up a modem splitter (Black Box TL115A) and tried to make this work
> with no luck. If I connect my computer's output directly to the KXPA100
> serial out cable, it works fine. If I connect the ATU to the KXPA100 serial
> out, it works fine. If I put the splitter in place, even if I only just
> connect the computer, I cannot communicate with the KXPA100. Same re: the
> ATU. Connecting both does not work either. I did get these devices off eBay
> (I was shipped two, actually) but neither appears to work - not sure if
> this is faulty adapters or if this mechanism just doesn't work in general.
> I only spent $10 on them, so it's no big loss, but I'd sure hate to go
> spend $80 on the BCE model to have the same results.