Anyone using WSJT with a K2?
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Has anyone on the list used WSJT FSK441 mode with a K2? If so I'd like
to hear about your experience. I've tried it with a XV-50 that I recently built and so far have just limited success. I have decoded about 2-3 transmissions (plus another 2-4 partials) over 3 Saturday morning "random hour" WSJT meteor scatter sessions on 6 meters, but so far no successful qsos. I operated with the K2 set for agc off, usb, and filter OPT1. My K2 is sn 1520 and was updated to the the most recent firmware at the same time as the XV50 build in order to accommodate the XV50 and the KIO2 which also had to be added to the K2 for 6 meter operation. According to the wsjt manual FSK441 uses 882, 1323 1764 and 2205 Hz tones in its encoding. My K2's OPT1 filter has the 2205 Hz tone on the IF filters shoulder. By eye its about 3-4 db below the passband. (In a previous version of this email I attached a jpg of the spectrogram plot, but evidently emails with attachments are not permitted here. I can send you a copy directly if it would help). Is it possible there is too much attenuation or phase distortion of the 2205 Hz signaling element for easy WSJT operation? I have the OPT1 filter adjusted for the best sounding ssb voice signal (according to my xyl's careful listening). If it's necessary to move the filter up 150-200 Hz for WSJT, it will affect how my voice comes across in ssb. What are my best options for good both ssb and wsjt operation with the K2? Are compromises required here or is there a way to get both good SSB and good WSJT? Thanks in advance. 73, Lenny W2BVH _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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I tried on our 70 MHz band with my XV-70. The same goes for JT65 as used by our beacons where I found the tuning very critical.
I thought nothing of this but maybe you have a point. Some weeks later on, I tried decoding JT65 on 23cm via an Icom IC910 and it worked fine. It may be the K2 filter but more likely it was just conditions. Although the tones are as specified, the tones in practice will depend on your calibration and Doppler shifts. The WSJT program should be able to decode the signals if they are off frequency. If you know your filter is off above 2 kHz, it might pay to tune a few 100Hz higher up the band. That way signals with positive Doppler are more likely to fall in the pass band. I am not sure the filter phase response is all that important here because the mode is not phase coherent. Filter ripple may be a problem on transmit, especially is if is as severe as 3-4 dB. It looks like you are receiving and this might be the cause of less QSOs. Try and alter the TX audio tone frequency but this time down a bit so it falls into the SSB pass band. You should not need to alter the filter - simply change WSJT tones instead. Mike
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Re: Anyone using WSJT with a K2?
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In reply to this post by w2bvh
Lenny,
You have the 2.1 kHz filter width installed, and when the BFOs are properly adjusted, the high frequency corner of the passband will be close to 2300 Hz. Order the SSBCAPKT from Elecraft and change the SSB filter width to 2.4 kHz, or even 2.6 kHz. While you are at it (if you have not already done so), changing the filter crystals on both the KSB2 board and the K2 RF board will give you a much better filter - the crystals used in K2 below SN 2560 were not controlled for motional inductance, and the new crystals are much better. 73, Don W3FPR w2bvh wrote: > Has anyone on the list used WSJT FSK441 mode with a K2? If so I'd like > to hear about your experience. > > I've tried it with a XV-50 that I recently built and so far have just > limited success. I have decoded about 2-3 transmissions (plus another > 2-4 partials) over 3 Saturday morning "random hour" WSJT meteor > scatter sessions on 6 meters, but so far no successful qsos. I > operated with the K2 set for agc off, usb, and filter OPT1. > > My K2 is sn 1520 and was updated to the the most recent firmware at > the same time as the XV50 build in order to accommodate the XV50 and > the KIO2 which also had to be added to the K2 for 6 meter operation. > > According to the wsjt manual FSK441 uses 882, 1323 1764 and 2205 Hz > tones in its encoding. My K2's OPT1 filter has the 2205 Hz tone on the > IF filters shoulder. By eye its about 3-4 db below the passband. (In a > previous version of this email I attached a jpg of the spectrogram > plot, but evidently emails with attachments are not permitted here. I > can send you a copy directly if it would help). > > Is it possible there is too much attenuation or phase distortion of > the 2205 Hz signaling element for easy WSJT operation? I have the > OPT1 filter adjusted for the best sounding ssb voice signal (according > to my xyl's careful listening). If it's necessary to move the filter > up 150-200 Hz for WSJT, it will affect how my voice comes across in ssb. > > What are my best options for good both ssb and wsjt operation with the > K2? Are compromises required here or is there a way to get both good > SSB and good WSJT? > > Thanks in advance. > > 73, > Lenny W2BVH > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: Anyone using WSJT with a K2?
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In reply to this post by w2bvh
Lenny W2BVH wrote: Has anyone on the list used WSJT FSK441 mode with a K2? If so I'd like to hear about your experience. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello Lenny, Yep I did and do! And I can tell you that it works fine. It's a bit late here, so I won't elaborate, but I use the K2 on 144 Mc FSK441. Although I do have several problems using the K2 together with the combination homebrew transvertor / high power amplifier on VHF, I'm very successful in completing MS (meteor-scatter) QSO's. I use the mic input (SSB-mode) with filter option OPT1. I will send you a picture of the WSJT audio response next weekend. I did not make a compromise as far as I'm aware of. Please send me an e-mail directly with the picture (evert at pa2kw dot com). I'v been extremely active on 144 MS (using high speed CW from 200 LPM up to 2500 LPM and later on with FSK441) and have 630 squares / 64 DXCC worked without EME or SAT). 73's, Evert PA2KW Also vy active on HF! K2 SN4836 K3 ordered (Nov 2007) _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: Anyone using WSJT with a K2?
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In reply to this post by AD6XY
Hi Mike and Lenny,
Using FSK441, don't change the tones (as far as I know you can't). Just tune in for the RX signal and the DF will show you how to tune in on your partner. From then on it should be OK. 73's, Evert PA2KW -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of AD6XY - Mike Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 22:41 To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Anyone using WSJT with a K2? I tried on our 70 MHz band with my XV-70. The same goes for JT65 as used by our beacons where I found the tuning very critical. I thought nothing of this but maybe you have a point. Some weeks later on, I tried decoding JT65 on 23cm via an Icom IC910 and it worked fine. It may be the K2 filter but more likely it was just conditions. Although the tones are as specified, the tones in practice will depend on your calibration and Doppler shifts. The WSJT program should be able to decode the signals if they are off frequency. If you know your filter is off above 2 kHz, it might pay to tune a few 100Hz higher up the band. That way signals with positive Doppler are more likely to fall in the pass band. I am not sure the filter phase response is all that important here because the mode is not phase coherent. Filter ripple may be a problem on transmit, especially is if is as severe as 3-4 dB. It looks like you are receiving and this might be the cause of less QSOs. Try and alter the TX audio tone frequency but this time down a bit so it falls into the SSB pass band. You should not need to alter the filter - simply change WSJT tones instead. Mike w2bvh wrote: > > Has anyone on the list used WSJT FSK441 mode with a K2? If so I'd like > to hear about your experience. > > I've tried it with a XV-50 that I recently built and so far have just > limited success. I have decoded about 2-3 transmissions (plus another > 2-4 partials) over 3 Saturday morning "random hour" WSJT meteor scatter > sessions on 6 meters, but so far no successful qsos. I operated with > the K2 set for agc off, usb, and filter OPT1. > > My K2 is sn 1520 and was updated to the the most recent firmware at the > same time as the XV50 build in order to accommodate the XV50 and the > KIO2 which also had to be added to the K2 for 6 meter operation. > > According to the wsjt manual FSK441 uses 882, 1323 1764 and 2205 Hz > tones in its encoding. My K2's OPT1 filter has the 2205 Hz tone on the > IF filters shoulder. By eye its about 3-4 db below the passband. (In a > previous version of this email I attached a jpg of the spectrogram plot, > but evidently emails with attachments are not permitted here. I can send > you a copy directly if it would help). > > Is it possible there is too much attenuation or phase distortion of the > 2205 Hz signaling element for easy WSJT operation? I have the OPT1 > filter adjusted for the best sounding ssb voice signal (according to my > xyl's careful listening). If it's necessary to move the filter up > 150-200 Hz for WSJT, it will affect how my voice comes across in ssb. > > What are my best options for good both ssb and wsjt operation with the > K2? Are compromises required here or is there a way to get both good SSB > and good WSJT? > > Thanks in advance. > > 73, > Lenny W2BVH > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Anyone-using-WSJT-with-a-K2--tp15814406p15814704.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: Anyone using WSJT with a K2?
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
Thanks Don for the historical-technical backup!
I've got SN4836 so won't have that problem. 73's, Evert -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 23:10 To: w2bvh Cc: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Anyone using WSJT with a K2? Lenny, You have the 2.1 kHz filter width installed, and when the BFOs are properly adjusted, the high frequency corner of the passband will be close to 2300 Hz. Order the SSBCAPKT from Elecraft and change the SSB filter width to 2.4 kHz, or even 2.6 kHz. While you are at it (if you have not already done so), changing the filter crystals on both the KSB2 board and the K2 RF board will give you a much better filter - the crystals used in K2 below SN 2560 were not controlled for motional inductance, and the new crystals are much better. 73, Don W3FPR _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Anyone using WSJT with a K2?
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
Just want to second what Don is saying here. With FSK441, wider is better. And
simpler is better. The less you do in the receiver/transmitter to limit, filter, or process the signal, the better. Open up the receiver and transmitter passband, turn off all the usual bells and whistles, and let the sound card and software do the work. I've helped a lot of guys get straightened out who were having poor results on FSK441 meteor scatter because of: 1) Receive IF passband too narrow (open it up wide) 2) Receive equalization profile in use (turn it off) 3) Receive AGC turned on (turn it off or set it to the fastest possible setting) 4) Transmit IF filter too narrow (open it up as much as possible) 5) Transmit equalization profile in use (turn it off) 6) Transmit speech processing/compression in use (turn it off) You want the most wide-open, plain-vanilla settings you can get. Many of these settings can escape your notice because they are all defaulted to values for SSB transmit/receive and you have never changed them before. Some may be accessible from the front panel, some will be in the menu, depending on your radio. I don't have a K2, but will be running WSJT modes on my K3 once I get it. The narrower WSJT modes, JT6M and JT65A/B/C, are less critically impacted by these settings. But to get optimal performance with FSK441, you really have to open things up. Bill W5WVO Don Wilhelm wrote: > Lenny, > > You have the 2.1 kHz filter width installed, and when the BFOs are > properly adjusted, the high frequency corner of the passband will be > close to 2300 Hz. > > Order the SSBCAPKT from Elecraft and change the SSB filter width to > 2.4 kHz, or even 2.6 kHz. > While you are at it (if you have not already done so), changing the > filter crystals on both the KSB2 board and the K2 RF board will give > you a much better filter - the crystals used in K2 below SN 2560 were > not controlled for motional inductance, and the new crystals are > much better. > 73, > Don W3FPR > > w2bvh wrote: >> Has anyone on the list used WSJT FSK441 mode with a K2? If so I'd >> like to hear about your experience. >> >> I've tried it with a XV-50 that I recently built and so far have just >> limited success. I have decoded about 2-3 transmissions (plus another >> 2-4 partials) over 3 Saturday morning "random hour" WSJT meteor >> scatter sessions on 6 meters, but so far no successful qsos. I >> operated with the K2 set for agc off, usb, and filter OPT1. >> >> My K2 is sn 1520 and was updated to the the most recent firmware at >> the same time as the XV50 build in order to accommodate the XV50 and >> the KIO2 which also had to be added to the K2 for 6 meter operation. >> >> According to the wsjt manual FSK441 uses 882, 1323 1764 and 2205 Hz >> tones in its encoding. My K2's OPT1 filter has the 2205 Hz tone on >> the IF filters shoulder. By eye its about 3-4 db below the passband. >> (In a previous version of this email I attached a jpg of the >> spectrogram plot, but evidently emails with attachments are not permitted >> here. I >> can send you a copy directly if it would help). >> >> Is it possible there is too much attenuation or phase distortion of >> the 2205 Hz signaling element for easy WSJT operation? I have the >> OPT1 filter adjusted for the best sounding ssb voice signal >> (according to my xyl's careful listening). If it's necessary to move >> the filter up 150-200 Hz for WSJT, it will affect how my voice comes >> across in >> ssb. What are my best options for good both ssb and wsjt operation with >> the K2? Are compromises required here or is there a way to get both >> good SSB and good WSJT? >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> 73, >> Lenny W2BVH >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Post to: [hidden email] >> You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): >> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Anyone using WSJT with a K2?
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In reply to this post by Evert Bakker (PA2KW)
Just to elaborate on what Evert is saying below -- You want to tune the
receiver frequency using RIT, with the FSK441 DF (Delta frequency) reading as your guide. You do NOT want to tweak with the transmit frequency. Set your main VFO to the frequency agreed upon (e.g., 50.255 MHz) and leave it there. The other guy will get a DF reading indicating how far your frequency is from his frequency, and he will adjust his RIT to compensate for that (if necessary). You can do the same for his signal. If you change your TX frequency using either the VFO or XIT, that will mess him all up. :-) And vice-versa. Use only the RIT for receive tuning. In truth, the WSJT FSK441 decode engine is capable of automatically resolving a DF of up to 400 Hz. You may be able to filter out a lot of noise by tuning the signal closer with RIT such that the reported DF number gets smaller, and then narrowing the WSJT passband accordingly -- but this is usually unnecessary with pings of moderate or better strength. Bill W5WVO Evert Bakker (PA2KW) wrote: > Hi Mike and Lenny, > > Using FSK441, don't change the tones (as far as I know you can't). > Just tune in for the RX signal and the DF will show you how to tune > in on your partner. From then on it should be OK. > > 73's, Evert PA2KW > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of AD6XY - Mike > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 22:41 > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Anyone using WSJT with a K2? > > > I tried on our 70 MHz band with my XV-70. The same goes for JT65 as > used by our beacons where I found the tuning very critical. > > I thought nothing of this but maybe you have a point. > > Some weeks later on, I tried decoding JT65 on 23cm via an Icom IC910 > and it worked fine. It may be the K2 filter but more likely it was > just conditions. > > > Although the tones are as specified, the tones in practice will > depend on your calibration and Doppler shifts. The WSJT program > should be able to decode the signals if they are off frequency. If > you know your filter is off above 2 kHz, it might pay to tune a few > 100Hz higher up the band. That way signals with positive Doppler are > more likely to fall in the pass band. > > I am not sure the filter phase response is all that important here > because the mode is not phase coherent. > > Filter ripple may be a problem on transmit, especially is if is as > severe as 3-4 dB. It looks like you are receiving and this might be > the cause of less QSOs. Try and alter the TX audio tone frequency but > this time down a bit so it falls into the SSB pass band. You should > not need to alter the filter - simply change WSJT tones instead. > > Mike > > > > w2bvh wrote: >> >> Has anyone on the list used WSJT FSK441 mode with a K2? If so I'd >> like to hear about your experience. >> >> I've tried it with a XV-50 that I recently built and so far have just >> limited success. I have decoded about 2-3 transmissions (plus another >> 2-4 partials) over 3 Saturday morning "random hour" WSJT meteor >> scatter sessions on 6 meters, but so far no successful qsos. I >> operated with the K2 set for agc off, usb, and filter OPT1. >> >> My K2 is sn 1520 and was updated to the the most recent firmware at >> the same time as the XV50 build in order to accommodate the XV50 and >> the KIO2 which also had to be added to the K2 for 6 meter operation. >> >> According to the wsjt manual FSK441 uses 882, 1323 1764 and 2205 Hz >> tones in its encoding. My K2's OPT1 filter has the 2205 Hz tone on >> the IF filters shoulder. By eye its about 3-4 db below the passband. >> (In a previous version of this email I attached a jpg of the >> spectrogram plot, but evidently emails with attachments are not >> permitted here. I can send you a copy directly if it would help). >> >> Is it possible there is too much attenuation or phase distortion of >> the 2205 Hz signaling element for easy WSJT operation? I have the >> OPT1 filter adjusted for the best sounding ssb voice signal >> (according to my xyl's careful listening). If it's necessary to move >> the filter up 150-200 Hz for WSJT, it will affect how my voice >> comes across in ssb. >> >> What are my best options for good both ssb and wsjt operation with >> the K2? Are compromises required here or is there a way to get both >> good SSB and good WSJT? >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> 73, >> Lenny W2BVH >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Post to: [hidden email] >> You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): >> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Anyone using WSJT with a K2?
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In reply to this post by w2bvh
w2bvh wrote:
> > According to the wsjt manual FSK441 uses 882, 1323 1764 and 2205 Hz > tones in its encoding. My K2's OPT1 filter has the 2205 Hz tone on > the IF filters shoulder. By eye its about 3-4 db below the passband. > (In a If it uses those frequencies, and conforms to the licensing requirement to use minimum necessary bandwidth, the sidebands on each tone will be +/- 220.5 Hz, so you really want the passband to be essentially flat between 661.5 Hz and 2425.5 Hz, or receive with the tones all shifted down in frequency to fit within the filter passband. As transmit will use the same filter, you really need to do the same for transmit. > previous version of this email I attached a jpg of the spectrogram > plot, but evidently emails with attachments are not permitted here. I > can send you a copy directly if it would help). The list guidelines suggest that would be attachments be placed in personal web space. > > Is it possible there is too much attenuation or phase distortion of > the 2205 Hz signaling element for easy WSJT operation? I have the > OPT1 Filter phase errors will cause group delay errors, which will distort the signal. The audio chain on the K2 may also cause some cut off off if you shift the tones lower. > filter adjusted for the best sounding ssb voice signal (according to > my xyl's careful listening). If it's necessary to move the filter up > 150-200 Hz for WSJT, it will affect how my voice comes across in > ssb. You can use the RTTY filter set to allow different filters for receive data. I can't remember if these allow a different offset on the transmit filter. -- David Woolley Emails are not formal business letters, whatever businesses may want. RFC1855 says there should be an address here, but, in a world of spam, that is no longer good advice, as archive address hiding may not work. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by w2bvh
My thanks to everyone who replied to my query about using a K2 with
WSJT FSK441 mode on 6 meters. It was very enlightening and informative. Looks like I *will* be modifying the ssb OP1 filter to 2.4 or 2.6 KHz bandwidth and see how I do after that. It works out that the recommended filter crystal replacement has already been done. I did it so long ago, I forgot that I had done it :-). So now it's a matter of changing interstage caps and re-adjusting the bfo for the wider filter. I only hope that the bfo will have the needed range. Wish me luck, and maybe soon we'll be qso'ing with wsjt! Thanks agn & 73, Lenny W2BVH _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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