Are external tuners really needed with Chamaeleon antennas?
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Are external tuners really needed with Chamaeleon antennas?
 
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I am considering purchasing a Chamaeleon MPAS Lite and from what I gather from advertisements they require an external wide range antenna tuner to work. I have a kx2 with the internal tuner. I am guessing there is something beyond my paygrade as to why this would not be sufficient? If anyone has direct experience with these antennas please let me know your experience and what you think. Also… I am interested in this particular antenna because I am visually impaired and it seems like something I could set up myself relatively easily. Thanks! 73 KO4NE
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Re: Are external tuners really needed with Chamaeleon antennas?
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I absolutely concur with Walter-a simple wire antenna will be easier to setup and use,and with the exceptional internal tuner of the KX2 there’s no reason to spend for anything else. Although it’s not as efficient the AX1/AEX1 might be worth considering as it may be easy to setup for you depending on your situation.
Dan Presley 503-701-3871 danpresley@me. com [hidden email] > On Mar 22, 2021, at 08:46, Walter Underwood <[hidden email]> wrote: > > With the KX2 ATU, save your money and don’t get the MPAS Lite. > > Use the setup described on page 10 of the KX2 manual, two wires connected to a double binding post adapter on the radio. That will be lighter, cheaper, and more efficient than the Chameleon antenna. > > SOTAbeams has nice wire winders (I like the “midi” size) and high-visibility antenna wire. > > https://www.sotabeams.co.uk/antenna-accessories-and-hardware/ > > wunder > K6WRU > Walter Underwood > CM87wj > http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog) > >> On Mar 22, 2021, at 8:24 AM, Jeff Grillo <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> I am considering purchasing a Chamaeleon MPAS Lite and from what I gather from advertisements they require an external wide range antenna tuner to work. I have a kx2 with the internal tuner. I am guessing there is something beyond my paygrade as to why this would not be sufficient? If anyone has direct experience with these antennas please let me know your experience and what you think. Also… I am interested in this particular antenna because I am visually impaired and it seems like something I could set up myself relatively easily. Thanks! 73 KO4NE >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to [hidden email] > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Are external tuners really needed with Chamaeleon antennas?
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In reply to this post by Jeff Grillo
On 3/22/2021 8:24 AM, Jeff Grillo wrote:
> I have a kx2 with the internal tuner. I am guessing there is something beyond my paygrade as to why this would not be sufficient? Antenna tuners do not make antennas work better, they simply help the rig provide power to the feedline by matching the feedline to the rig. If the tuner is getting you below 2:1 for the antennas you use, the only thing a different tuner will do is transfer money from your pocket to someone else's. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Are external tuners really needed with Chamaeleon antennas?
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I've often heard ATUs referred to as "beer goggles for your transceiver."
Ever since I read the first chapter in Reflections III by Walt Maxwell W2DU (SK) I can well believe it. ("Too Low an SWR Can Kill You.") -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 15:04 To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Are external tuners really needed with Chamaeleon antennas? On 3/22/2021 8:24 AM, Jeff Grillo wrote: > I have a kx2 with the internal tuner. I am guessing there is something beyond my paygrade as to why this would not be sufficient? Antenna tuners do not make antennas work better, they simply help the rig provide power to the feedline by matching the feedline to the rig. If the tuner is getting you below 2:1 for the antennas you use, the only thing a different tuner will do is transfer money from your pocket to someone else's. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Are external tuners really needed with Chamaeleon antennas?
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In reply to this post by Jeff Grillo
Since noone has actually answered the specific question...
A few years ago, I was told by the Owner of Chamelon that the CHA Hybrid-Micro used in that kit as the base & matching unit is 5:1 Unun. The manual of the kit has an SWR plot for various types of radiating elements that can be used: the vertical, vertical with extension, a length of wire, etc. Whether or not a tuner is required to obtain an acceptable SWR is going to depend a lot on what you intend to use for the radiating element. If you're planning on using the antenna with one of the vertical elements on 40m, you're going to need to use the tuner in the KX2...which will just fine. The folks who have commented about using just a wire and binding post as the preferred setup are not taking into considerations the various operating environments that someone might be in. I frequent desert and mountainous areas in SoCal that have no trees or bushes of any meaningful height. In those cases, using a man-pack type of vertical (like the Chameleon) is a very convenient antenna to use with a KX2 or KX3. Tim On Mon, Mar 22, 2021 at 8:24 AM Jeff Grillo <[hidden email]> wrote: > I am considering purchasing a Chamaeleon MPAS Lite and from what I gather > from advertisements they require an external wide range antenna tuner to > work. I have a kx2 with the internal tuner. I am guessing there is > something beyond my paygrade as to why this would not be sufficient? If > anyone has direct experience with these antennas please let me know your > experience and what you think. Also… I am interested in this particular > antenna because I am visually impaired and it seems like something I could > set up myself relatively easily. Thanks! 73 KO4NE > > Sent from my iPhone > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] -- Owner, worldwidedx.com AE6LX, Amateur Radio ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Jeff Grillo
Jeff-
If you look on Youtube, Thomas Witherspoon K4SWL has a channel (in his name) and he has a few videos where he is using his KX2 with the Chamaleon antennas and uses the internal ATU to tune them. Looks like he is very responsive to questions so you should be able to get some good feedback from him. 73 Cameron KI4JDD -- Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Are external tuners really needed with Chamaeleon antennas?
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In reply to this post by Tim Tucker
Since this is the Elecraft reflector I will go out on a limb and guess you
are using an Elecraft rig with an internal tuner. If so you already have a wide range tuner in the rig and do not need an external tuner. I am often amazed at how well my tuners match some really outlandish antennas. Luckily when in the field I am usually not using a very long feedline so loses in the coax are kept fairly low. On Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 12:30 Tim Tucker <[hidden email]> wrote: > Since noone has actually answered the specific question... > > A few years ago, I was told by the Owner of Chamelon that the CHA > Hybrid-Micro used in that kit as the base & matching unit is 5:1 Unun. The > manual of the kit has an SWR plot for various types of radiating > elements that can be used: the vertical, vertical with extension, a length > of wire, etc. Whether or not a tuner is required to obtain an acceptable > SWR is going to depend a lot on what you intend to use for the radiating > element. If you're planning on using the antenna with one of the vertical > elements on 40m, you're going to need to use the tuner in the KX2...which > will just fine. > > The folks who have commented about using just a wire and binding post as > the preferred setup are not taking into considerations the various > operating environments that someone might be in. I frequent desert and > mountainous areas in SoCal that have no trees or bushes of any meaningful > height. In those cases, using a man-pack type of vertical (like the > Chameleon) is a very convenient antenna to use with a KX2 or KX3. > > Tim > > On Mon, Mar 22, 2021 at 8:24 AM Jeff Grillo <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > I am considering purchasing a Chamaeleon MPAS Lite and from what I gather > > from advertisements they require an external wide range antenna tuner to > > work. I have a kx2 with the internal tuner. I am guessing there is > > something beyond my paygrade as to why this would not be sufficient? If > > anyone has direct experience with these antennas please let me know your > > experience and what you think. Also… I am interested in this particular > > antenna because I am visually impaired and it seems like something I > could > > set up myself relatively easily. Thanks! 73 KO4NE > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Message delivered to [hidden email] > > > > -- > Owner, worldwidedx.com > AE6LX, Amateur Radio > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Are external tuners really needed with Chamaeleon antennas?
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On 3/23/2021 11:51 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote:
> I am often amazed at how well my tuners match some really outlandish antennas. My KX2 loads up the aluminum rain gutter outside my window just fine on 80 through 10 meters. (I do have 1/4-wave counterpoise wires for 40, 20 and 10 meters.) Alan N1AL ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Are external tuners really needed with Chamaeleon antennas?
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In reply to this post by Jeff Grillo
Jeff,
I operated Winter Field Day, with my KX3 (Same basic internal tuner as yours) at a camp ground down along the Gulf Coast with my club. I operated with a Chameleon 80 meter End Fed Half Wave, working mostly 40 and 20 meters. The antenna was tossed up into a group of pine trees and other green foliage in true amateur fashion, severely detuning the antenna. My KX3 internal antenna tuner had no problem tuning. Elecraft tuners are wide range tuners, typically 10 to 1. (Wayne, N6KR, please forgive me for this). And Wayne, N6KR; Co-founder of Elecraft, has written in this very mailing list that he can tune Lightly Salted Snow with his KX2! Jeff you will have no problems with your KX2. Hope to catch you on the air with your KX2/MPAS Lite! 73, Charlie, N2PKW -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Jeff Grillo Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 10:25 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: [EXT]: [Elecraft] Are external tuners really needed with Chamaeleon antennas? I am considering purchasing a Chamaeleon MPAS Lite and from what I gather from advertisements they require an external wide range antenna tuner to work. I have a kx2 with the internal tuner. I am guessing there is something beyond my paygrade as to why this would not be sufficient? If anyone has direct experience with these antennas please let me know your experience and what you think. Also… I am interested in this particular antenna because I am visually impaired and it seems like something I could set up myself relatively easily. Thanks! 73 KO4NE Sent from my iPhone ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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