Array Solutions Lightning Arrestor
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Array Solutions Lightning Arrestor
 
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Until K9YC's post I was not aware of the Array Solutions lightning
arrestor. They appear be a nice product. How do GDT's fail - open or closed? If open, how do you know that they need replacement? John KK9A K9YC wrote: I strongly agree with Bob's advice, EXCEPT that I've gotten really tired of replacing Polyphasers on my high wire dipoles. I've recently switched to the arrestors that Array Solutions sells, both because I like the circuit better and because the gas discharge tubes are user replaceable. The Polyphasers are feed-through types mounted to the entry panel. The Array Solutions are mounted in a big Hoffman box, for which W6GJB built some custom mounting brackets. It's mounted to the wall next to the plate with the Polyphasers, with two 2-in PVC conduit stubs going through the wall and holes drilled at the bottom of the enclosure for coax entry. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Array Solutions Lightning Arrestor
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In my experience, they fail shorted, so it's pretty obvious. Although
the app notes for both the ICE and Array Solutions products say that they don't always fail shorted. The design is based on this one, which Array Solutions used to sell, but the ICE owner died several years ago. The circuit is shown in the link below. The great thing about this circuit is that the inductor continuously discharges static. https://www.arraysolutions.com/as-303u 73, Jim K9YC On 1/22/2018 10:51 AM, [hidden email] wrote: Until K9YC's post I was not aware of the Array Solutions lightning arrestor. They appear be a nice product. How do GDT's fail - open or closed? If open, how do you know that they need replacement? John KK9A K9YC wrote: I strongly agree with Bob's advice, EXCEPT that I've gotten really tired of replacing Polyphasers on my high wire dipoles. I've recently switched to the arrestors that Array Solutions sells, both because I like the circuit better and because the gas discharge tubes are user replaceable. The Polyphasers are feed-through types mounted to the entry panel. The Array Solutions are mounted in a big Hoffman box, for which W6GJB built some custom mounting brackets. It's mounted to the wall next to the plate with the Polyphasers, with two 2-in PVC conduit stubs going through the wall and holes drilled at the bottom of the enclosure for coax entry. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Morgan Manufacturing, which, I've heard, was the contract assembly company for ICE, is also selling some of ICE's product line.
http://www.morganmfg.us/ 73, Jim N7US -----Original Message----- In my experience, they fail shorted, so it's pretty obvious. Although the app notes for both the ICE and Array Solutions products say that they don't always fail shorted. The design is based on this one, which Array Solutions used to sell, but the ICE owner died several years ago. The circuit is shown in the link below. The great thing about this circuit is that the inductor continuously discharges static. https://www.arraysolutions.com/as-303u 73, Jim K9YC On 1/22/2018 10:51 AM, [hidden email] wrote: Until K9YC's post I was not aware of the Array Solutions lightning arrestor. They appear be a nice product. How do GDT's fail - open or closed? If open, how do you know that they need replacement? John KK9A K9YC wrote: I strongly agree with Bob's advice, EXCEPT that I've gotten really tired of replacing Polyphasers on my high wire dipoles. I've recently switched to the arrestors that Array Solutions sells, both because I like the circuit better and because the gas discharge tubes are user replaceable. The Polyphasers are feed-through types mounted to the entry panel. The Array Solutions are mounted in a big Hoffman box, for which W6GJB built some custom mounting brackets. It's mounted to the wall next to the plate with the Polyphasers, with two 2-in PVC conduit stubs going through the wall and holes drilled at the bottom of the enclosure for coax entry. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Array Solutions Lightning Arrestor
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On 1/23/2018 9:40 AM, Walter Underwood wrote:
> And Morgan Manufacturing offers them with N connectors! I’m sold. So does Array Solutions. BUT -- for HF, N connections offer no advantages over UHF connectors. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Array Solutions Lightning Arrestor
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While N connectors do have some design and impedance advantages, some of us that have lived in extremely cold climates... have seen the center pins pull out of N connectors due to thermal contraction of the center conductor over distance. A UHF or DIN connector will usually not do that.
Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ Owner - Operator Big Signal Ranch – K9ZC Staunton, Illinois Owner – Operator Villa Grand Piton – J68HZ Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I. Rent it: www.VillaGrandPiton.com Like us on Facebook! email: [hidden email] -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Walter Underwood Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 2:29 PM To: Reflector Elecraft <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Array Solutions Lightning Arrestor N connectors have better weatherproofing. They handle 1500 V instead of 500 V. But I mostly like them better because they are engineered instead of a historical accident. :-) wunder K6WRU Walter Underwood CM87wj http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog) > On Jan 23, 2018, at 10:15 AM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote: > > On 1/23/2018 9:40 AM, Walter Underwood wrote: >> And Morgan Manufacturing offers them with N connectors! I’m sold. > > So does Array Solutions. BUT -- for HF, N connections offer no advantages over UHF connectors. > > 73, Jim K9YC > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Array Solutions Lightning Arrestor
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In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
On 1/23/2018 10:29 AM, Walter Underwood wrote:
> N connectors have better weatherproofing. How does that matter for connections inside a weatherproof enclosure that mounts the arrestors? They also have the problem of cable migration from the connector. > They handle 1500 V instead of 500 V. In 60 years of hamming, I've never seen a quality UHF connector that arced. Of course, I've never run more than 1.5kW, and I try to use antennas that are close to resonance. :) > But I mostly like them better because they are engineered instead of a historical accident.:-) The technical superiority of N-connectors for use at HF is a wild exaggeration, to the extent of being an urban myth. Yes, there is a SMALL impedance difference at a junction, but it simply doesn't matter at 6M and below, both because the difference in Zo is relatively small, because the length is small as a fraction of a wavelength, and because as frequency increases, small mismatches are reduced by the loss in the feedline (and NOT loss due to mismatch). There is, of course, a FICTIONAL loss called "mismatch loss," which shows up in the lab with test equipment that is carefully engineered to have 50 ohm output Z. But the output Z of real world transmitters is rarely 50 ohms -- it's usually a lot lower. Funny -- because it isn't real, we didn't learn about it in our transmission lines classes back in the '60s. What matters a lot more is the QUALITY of the connector. Smart hams don't use el-cheapo, non-branded connectors. Except for receive antennas, I use only soldered Amphenol 83-1SP connectors and mating Amphenol jacks and Amphenol adapters. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Array Solutions Lightning Arrestor
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In reply to this post by john@kk9a.com
Pin retraction may depend on your coax. I use a number of N connectors and I
have not seen this occur with Belden 8267 or with the various sizes of Heliax at my station. John KK9A K9ZC wrote: While N connectors do have some design and impedance advantages, some of us that have lived in extremely cold climates... have seen the center pins pull out of N connectors due to thermal contraction of the center conductor over distance. A UHF or DIN connector will usually not do that. Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ Owner - Operator Big Signal Ranch - K9ZC Staunton, Illinois Owner - Operator Villa Grand Piton - J68HZ Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I. Rent it: www.VillaGrandPiton.com Like us on Facebook! ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Array Solutions Lightning Arrestor
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In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
N are easier to install than UHF (IMHO), easier to tell that they're installed correctly, and it's difficult to find good quality UHF in larger dia for RG214. UHF for Heliax are very expensive while surplus NOS N-connectors are common.
That's why I prefer them. I would say UHF offer no advantages over N ! 73, Josh W6XU Sent from my mobile device > On Jan 23, 2018, at 10:15 AM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> On 1/23/2018 9:40 AM, Walter Underwood wrote: >> And Morgan Manufacturing offers them with N connectors! I’m sold. > > So does Array Solutions. BUT -- for HF, N connections offer no advantages over UHF connectors. > > 73, Jim K9YC > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
UHF connectors [was: Array Solutions Lightning Arrestor]
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In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
On 01/23/2018 11:05 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On 1/23/2018 10:29 AM, Walter Underwood wrote: ... >> But I mostly like them better because they are engineered instead of a >> historical accident.:-) > > The technical superiority of N-connectors for use at HF is a wild > exaggeration, to the extent of being an urban myth. Yes, there is a > SMALL impedance difference at a junction, but it simply doesn't matter > at 6M and below, both because the difference in Zo is relatively small, > because the length is small as a fraction of a wavelength, and because > as frequency increases, small mismatches are reduced by the loss in the > feedline (and NOT loss due to mismatch). > > There is, of course, a FICTIONAL loss called "mismatch loss," which > shows up in the lab with test equipment that is carefully engineered to > have 50 ohm output Z. ... From: ... (Alan Bloom) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1992 23:03:13 GMT Subject: The Truth about UHF Connectors Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc Ya gotta feel sorry for UHF connectors. Recent strings on this notes group lambasted them as worthless at VHF and above, and barely tolerable at HF. One poster called them "5 dB attenuators", and many agreed that there must be some sort of conspiracy among ham equipment manufacturers to inflict such garbage connectors on the amateur community. Today I finally remembered to bring some UHF adapters from home so I could do some relative measurements of UHF versus type-N. As expected, the type-N showed lower insertion loss at high frequencies, but the UHF connectors were hardly "5 dB attenuators." For the test I connected an HP8753 RF network analyzer through two short BNC cables into the following arrangement: _______ ____________ ___________ ____________ _______ | | | BNC female | | N female- | | N male to | | | __| 10 dB |__| to N male |__| N female |__| BNC female |__| 10 dB |__ | Atten.| | adapter | | adapter | | adapter | | Atten.| |_______| |____________| |___________| |____________| |_______| Then I repeated the measurement with the N adapters replaced with UHF. I normalized the measurements by replacing the 3 adapters with a BNC double-female. (That is, this was assumed to have 0 dB loss.) Since two N or UHF adapters were used, I assume the loss per connector is half the total. The vertical scale was .1 dB/division, so I estimated the insertion loss to the nearest .01 dB or so: --------- Type N -------- ---------- UHF ---------- FREQ (MHz) TOTAL LOSS PER CONNECTOR TOTAL LOSS PER CONNECTOR 1.8 0 dB 0 dB 0 dB 0 dB 30 0 0 0 0 100 0 0 0 0 150 0 0 0.02 0.01 200 0 0 0.03 0.015 450 0 0 0.18 0.09 600 0 0 0.26 0.13 900 0 0 0.66 0.33 1000 0.05 0.025 0.8 0.4 1300 0.1 0.05 0.86 0.43 1600 0.05 0.025 0.5 0.25 2000 0.05 0.025 0.02 0.01 Insertion loss increases until about 1300 MHz, and then starts to decrease until it is almost zero for the UHF connector at 2 GHz! At that frequency, the connectors are about 1/4 wave long (1 inch, assuming .66 velocity factor), so I assume that the two adapters are providing a conjugate match to each other. This confirms my assumption that the insertion loss is due to reflections (impedance mismatch), not absorption (true power loss). Bottom line: UHF connectors work fine through the VHF range, and are not too bad even on the 420 MHz band if you can stand about .1 dB mismatch loss per connector. By the way, I did not do the full 2-port calibration on the HP8753, so there was a couple hundredth's dB ripple in the plots. I averaged this out by eye to come up with the numbers in the above chart. AL N1AL P.S. Sorry, I guess I violated the Usenet rule against posting objective data... :=) ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Array Solutions Lightning Arrestor
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In reply to this post by john@kk9a.com
I is not always thermal related. Center pin retraction can also be
caused by stress on the coax. I have seen many N male connectors where the shield has slipped in the clamp due to tension on the coax (from the weight of hanging or perhaps other causes). I routinely do 2 things - 1) put a bead of silicone seal around the coax to top of the N connector junction, and 2) support the coax in some manner about 12 inches from the connector. If the shield slips in the connector body, the most obvious result is center pin retraction, but it may also be that the shield has broken (or hanging on by a thread) allowing the coax to come partially out of the connector. The same problem can be found in BNC connectors. In other words, do not let the connector take the stress of the hanging coax weight. Well soldered UHF connectors do not have that problem. 73, Don W3FPR On 1/23/2018 5:27 PM, [hidden email] wrote: > Pin retraction may depend on your coax. I use a number of N connectors and I > have not seen this occur with Belden 8267 or with the various sizes of > Heliax at my station. > > John KK9A > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Array Solutions Lightning Arrestor
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In reply to this post by john@kk9a.com
Correct installation is usually the key. The line must be supported no
more than 12" from the connector and NEVER at any time by the connector, even during installation. Also, line supports along all vertical and horizontal runs is a must. 73 Bob, K4TAX On 1/23/2018 4:27 PM, [hidden email] wrote: > Pin retraction may depend on your coax. I use a number of N connectors and I > have not seen this occur with Belden 8267 or with the various sizes of > Heliax at my station. > > John KK9A > > > K9ZC wrote: > > While N connectors do have some design and impedance advantages, some of us > that have lived in extremely cold climates... have seen the center pins pull > out of N connectors due to thermal contraction of the center conductor over > distance. A UHF or DIN connector will usually not do that. > > > Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ > > Owner - Operator > Big Signal Ranch - K9ZC > Staunton, Illinois > > Owner - Operator > Villa Grand Piton - J68HZ > Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I. > Rent it: www.VillaGrandPiton.com > Like us on Facebook! > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Array Solutions Lightning Arrestor
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In reply to this post by john@kk9a.com
UG-1185's have captive center pins.
73 ! Ken - K0PP On Jan 23, 2018 15:28, <[hidden email]> wrote: Pin retraction may depend on your coax. I use a number of N connectors and I have not seen this occur with Belden 8267 or with the various sizes of Heliax at my station. John KK9A K9ZC wrote: While N connectors do have some design and impedance advantages, some of us that have lived in extremely cold climates... have seen the center pins pull out of N connectors due to thermal contraction of the center conductor over distance. A UHF or DIN connector will usually not do that. Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ Owner - Operator Big Signal Ranch - K9ZC Staunton, Illinois Owner - Operator Villa Grand Piton - J68HZ Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I. Rent it: www.VillaGrandPiton.com Like us on Facebook! ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by john@kk9a.com
For those who might be interested, http://kf7p.com/KF7P/Welcome.html sells
Morgan Arrestors and many other excellent products for towers, entrance panels, grounding, ferrite chokes, etc. He also has an excellent set of references on his Tech page. No, no connection to the company; just a satisfied customer. 73 Chris NW6V ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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