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Audio dropout

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Tony Estep

Audio dropout

On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Luis V. Romero <[hidden email]> wrote:

> ...that annoying momentary dropout in the audio...

The momentary dropout that bugs me is the one that occurs when you turn on
Sub. As everybody knows, listening to the DX on VFO A and the pileup on VFO
B is the key to working a lot of DX with modest power and a wire. The K3 is
the best at this in many ways, but it has the unfortunate habit of
observing a moment of silence when the Sub button is pushed. I like to turn
Sub off at times to get rid of the 3db splitter loss, and every time I turn
it back on to check the pile the radio exhibits this annoying trait. Can
this be fixed in firmware someday?

73 Tony KT0NY
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Guy, K2AV

Re: Audio dropout

I have version 4.22 firmware. The transition from SUB off to SUB on,
and reverse, happens without any dropout. What you describe simply
does not happen.

When I use N1MM, ***N1MM*** has some kind of transition issue like
that. But it does NOT happen from the K3 front panel. Also sending
SB0; or SB1; from the command tester tab of the current K3 utility
(not involved with any third party software) produces an instant
change. This is very easy to test and verify.

What is your firmware version? Does this drop-out occur in the
context of using a logging program? If so, what program and version?

73, Guy

On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 9:55 PM, Tony Estep <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Luis V. Romero <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> ...that annoying momentary dropout in the audio...
>
>
> The momentary dropout that bugs me is the one that occurs when you turn on
> Sub. As everybody knows, listening to the DX on VFO A and the pileup on VFO
> B is the key to working a lot of DX with modest power and a wire. The K3 is
> the best at this in many ways, but it has the unfortunate habit of
> observing a moment of silence when the Sub button is pushed. I like to turn
> Sub off at times to get rid of the 3db splitter loss, and every time I turn
> it back on to check the pile the radio exhibits this annoying trait. Can
> this be fixed in firmware someday?
>
> 73 Tony KT0NY
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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Ken Wagner K3IU

Re: Audio dropout

In reply to this post by Tony Estep

G'morning, Tony:
With the NR turned ON, I experience a
momentary reduction in audio when
turning the SubRx ON. With NR turned
OFF, there is no reduction in audio when
turning the SubRx ON.
73, Ken K3IU
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On 12/13/2010 9:55 PM, Tony Estep wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Luis V. Romero<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> ...that annoying momentary dropout in the audio...
>
> The momentary dropout that bugs me is the one that occurs when you turn on
> Sub. As everybody knows, listening to the DX on VFO A and the pileup on VFO
> B is the key to working a lot of DX with modest power and a wire. The K3 is
> the best at this in many ways, but it has the unfortunate habit of
> observing a moment of silence when the Sub button is pushed. I like to turn
> Sub off at times to get rid of the 3db splitter loss, and every time I turn
> it back on to check the pile the radio exhibits this annoying trait. Can
> this be fixed in firmware someday?
>
> 73 Tony KT0NY
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Guy, K2AV

Re: Audio dropout

Well, this is very interesting.

While I haven't tried ALL the NR settings, I'm STILL not able to get a
dropout with NR turned on either.

Tony, Ken, can you supply me with a complete list of all your settings
when this happens to see if there is some combination of settings that
will cause the dropout on my K3. In particular all your AGC settings
from CONFIG: menu. And everything on the front panel you have set.

Perhaps there is a certain combination that introduces the effect.

If you could estimate the length of the drop out in milliseconds, what
would it be?

73, Guy.

On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 5:40 AM, Ken Wagner K3IU <[hidden email]> wrote:

> G'morning, Tony:
> With the NR turned ON, I experience a
> momentary reduction in audio when
> turning the SubRx ON. With NR turned
> OFF, there is no reduction in audio when
> turning the SubRx ON.
> 73, Ken K3IU
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> On 12/13/2010 9:55 PM, Tony Estep wrote:
>> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Luis V. Romero<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> ...that annoying momentary dropout in the audio...
>>
>> The momentary dropout that bugs me is the one that occurs when you turn on
>> Sub. As everybody knows, listening to the DX on VFO A and the pileup on VFO
>> B is the key to working a lot of DX with modest power and a wire. The K3 is
>> the best at this in many ways, but it has the unfortunate habit of
>> observing a moment of silence when the Sub button is pushed. I like to turn
>> Sub off at times to get rid of the 3db splitter loss, and every time I turn
>> it back on to check the pile the radio exhibits this annoying trait. Can
>> this be fixed in firmware someday?
>>
>> 73 Tony KT0NY
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Ken Wagner K3IU

Re: Audio dropout

G'morning, Guy:

CW Mode, 400 Hz bandwidth with 400Hz filter, AGC-F, abt S3
noise level, NR ON, NR setting="NR F 1--2"

Guess about a half second. Not a complete audio reduction to
no sound at all, but a perceptible momentary reduction of
the sound.

73, Ken K3IU
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On 12/14/2010 10:14 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

> Well, this is very interesting.
>
> While I haven't tried ALL the NR settings, I'm STILL not able to get a
> dropout with NR turned on either.
>
> Tony, Ken, can you supply me with a complete list of all your settings
> when this happens to see if there is some combination of settings that
> will cause the dropout on my K3. In particular all your AGC settings
> from CONFIG: menu. And everything on the front panel you have set.
>
> Perhaps there is a certain combination that introduces the effect.
>
> If you could estimate the length of the drop out in milliseconds, what
> would it be?
>
> 73, Guy.
>
> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 5:40 AM, Ken Wagner K3IU<[hidden email]> wrote:
>> G'morning, Tony:
>> With the NR turned ON, I experience a
>> momentary reduction in audio when
>> turning the SubRx ON. With NR turned
>> OFF, there is no reduction in audio when
>> turning the SubRx ON.
>> 73, Ken K3IU
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> On 12/13/2010 9:55 PM, Tony Estep wrote:
>>> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Luis V. Romero<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ...that annoying momentary dropout in the audio...
>>> The momentary dropout that bugs me is the one that occurs when you turn on
>>> Sub. As everybody knows, listening to the DX on VFO A and the pileup on VFO
>>> B is the key to working a lot of DX with modest power and a wire. The K3 is
>>> the best at this in many ways, but it has the unfortunate habit of
>>> observing a moment of silence when the Sub button is pushed. I like to turn
>>> Sub off at times to get rid of the 3db splitter loss, and every time I turn
>>> it back on to check the pile the radio exhibits this annoying trait. Can
>>> this be fixed in firmware someday?
>>>
>>> 73 Tony KT0NY
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>

Guy, K2AV

Re: Audio dropout

Well, I don't hear the RX dropping out. What I do hear is the NR
resetting and then readjusting. You get exactly the same delay when
you have NR off and then turn it on. There is no change in the RF
path, as the S meter shows the same level of 160m buzz on input
without a drop out. The "dropout" is independent of AGC.

The report is not that the RX drops out, but that turning on SUB
somehow causes a slow F 1-2 NR reset in the main radio, as if the NR
had been turned off and on. Listening to the SUBRX with the same
setting of NR, coming on there is no "synch" wait, as if the RX
turning on is known and the algorithm has a startup sequence. Should
the main RX NR get a startup sequence when the SUB is switched on?

Wayne, Lyle?

Aside from that, you use NR in a contest? Just for long term ear
comfort, I hope. I always lose very weak contacts in NR. I holler at
the guys at NY4A if I see it on. Lowers the score. The brain is still
the best NR for CW and SSB. NB is another story. T 3-7 or 2-7 with
IF OFF on key clicks is remarkable.

73, Guy.

On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 10:31 AM, Ken K3IU <[hidden email]> wrote:

> G'morning, Guy:
>
> CW Mode, 400 Hz bandwidth with 400Hz filter, AGC-F, abt S3 noise level, NR
> ON, NR setting="NR F 1--2"
>
> Guess about a half second. Not a complete audio reduction to no sound at
> all, but a perceptible momentary reduction of the sound.
>
> 73, Ken K3IU
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> On 12/14/2010 10:14 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
>
> Well, this is very interesting.
>
> While I haven't tried ALL the NR settings, I'm STILL not able to get a
> dropout with NR turned on either.
>
> Tony, Ken, can you supply me with a complete list of all your settings
> when this happens to see if there is some combination of settings that
> will cause the dropout on my K3. In particular all your AGC settings
> from CONFIG: menu. And everything on the front panel you have set.
>
> Perhaps there is a certain combination that introduces the effect.
>
> If you could estimate the length of the drop out in milliseconds, what
> would it be?
>
> 73, Guy.
>
> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 5:40 AM, Ken Wagner K3IU <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> G'morning, Tony:
> With the NR turned ON, I experience a
> momentary reduction in audio when
> turning the SubRx ON. With NR turned
> OFF, there is no reduction in audio when
> turning the SubRx ON.
> 73, Ken K3IU
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> On 12/13/2010 9:55 PM, Tony Estep wrote:
>
> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Luis V. Romero<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> ...that annoying momentary dropout in the audio...
>
> The momentary dropout that bugs me is the one that occurs when you turn on
> Sub. As everybody knows, listening to the DX on VFO A and the pileup on VFO
> B is the key to working a lot of DX with modest power and a wire. The K3 is
> the best at this in many ways, but it has the unfortunate habit of
> observing a moment of silence when the Sub button is pushed. I like to turn
> Sub off at times to get rid of the 3db splitter loss, and every time I turn
> it back on to check the pile the radio exhibits this annoying trait. Can
> this be fixed in firmware someday?
>
> 73 Tony KT0NY
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

Ken Wagner K3IU

Re: Audio dropout

No, Guy, I don't use NR in a contest. I hardly ever use it
at all. Tony was looking for some input, to I tried it out
and told him what I found. This is NOT a problem for me at all.
73, Ken K3IU
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On 12/14/2010 11:05 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

> Well, I don't hear the RX dropping out. What I do hear is the NR
> resetting and then readjusting. You get exactly the same delay when
> you have NR off and then turn it on. There is no change in the RF
> path, as the S meter shows the same level of 160m buzz on input
> without a drop out. The "dropout" is independent of AGC.
>
> The report is not that the RX drops out, but that turning on SUB
> somehow causes a slow F 1-2 NR reset in the main radio, as if the NR
> had been turned off and on. Listening to the SUBRX with the same
> setting of NR, coming on there is no "synch" wait, as if the RX
> turning on is known and the algorithm has a startup sequence. Should
> the main RX NR get a startup sequence when the SUB is switched on?
>
> Wayne, Lyle?
>
> Aside from that, you use NR in a contest? Just for long term ear
> comfort, I hope. I always lose very weak contacts in NR. I holler at
> the guys at NY4A if I see it on. Lowers the score. The brain is still
> the best NR for CW and SSB. NB is another story. T 3-7 or 2-7 with
> IF OFF on key clicks is remarkable.
>
> 73, Guy.
>
> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 10:31 AM, Ken K3IU<[hidden email]> wrote:
>> G'morning, Guy:
>>
>> CW Mode, 400 Hz bandwidth with 400Hz filter, AGC-F, abt S3 noise level, NR
>> ON, NR setting="NR F 1--2"
>>
>> Guess about a half second. Not a complete audio reduction to no sound at
>> all, but a perceptible momentary reduction of the sound.
>>
>> 73, Ken K3IU
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> On 12/14/2010 10:14 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
>>
>> Well, this is very interesting.
>>
>> While I haven't tried ALL the NR settings, I'm STILL not able to get a
>> dropout with NR turned on either.
>>
>> Tony, Ken, can you supply me with a complete list of all your settings
>> when this happens to see if there is some combination of settings that
>> will cause the dropout on my K3. In particular all your AGC settings
>> from CONFIG: menu. And everything on the front panel you have set.
>>
>> Perhaps there is a certain combination that introduces the effect.
>>
>> If you could estimate the length of the drop out in milliseconds, what
>> would it be?
>>
>> 73, Guy.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 5:40 AM, Ken Wagner K3IU<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> G'morning, Tony:
>> With the NR turned ON, I experience a
>> momentary reduction in audio when
>> turning the SubRx ON. With NR turned
>> OFF, there is no reduction in audio when
>> turning the SubRx ON.
>> 73, Ken K3IU
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> On 12/13/2010 9:55 PM, Tony Estep wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Luis V. Romero<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> ...that annoying momentary dropout in the audio...
>>
>> The momentary dropout that bugs me is the one that occurs when you turn on
>> Sub. As everybody knows, listening to the DX on VFO A and the pileup on VFO
>> B is the key to working a lot of DX with modest power and a wire. The K3 is
>> the best at this in many ways, but it has the unfortunate habit of
>> observing a moment of silence when the Sub button is pushed. I like to turn
>> Sub off at times to get rid of the 3db splitter loss, and every time I turn
>> it back on to check the pile the radio exhibits this annoying trait. Can
>> this be fixed in firmware someday?
>>
>> 73 Tony KT0NY
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>