Automatic lightning protection for radios, an off the wall idea

[Bill Frantz]

I've been thinking about some kind of automatic lightning
protection for radios, specifically ones like the K3 and K4. The
idea is that when you turn the radio off, all the things that
are subject to damage are protected by disconnecting them from
the external world and shorting their inputs to ground.

This approach probably wouldn't protect against a direct hit to
one of the wires coming into the radio, which are most likely on
the antenna input and the power from a solar system. But I
understand that the most significant part of the problem is
voltage spikes introduced when the external wires act as
antennas and pick up nearby lightning strikes.

I'm not a hardware engineer, so I'm going to assume that relays
are used in this device. Some of the things I see this device
doing are:

USB connection: Elecraft tells us that blown USB chips are one
of the more common forms of lightning damage in the K3. There
are 4 wires in the USB interface, two of which carry power from
the external world. The relay(s) would float the USB wires and
ground the connections to the internal USB chip. Since power
from the external world is present when the radio is off, we
can't ground the power leads, although we can ground the power
input to the radio's USB chip.

Note that currently a computer attached to the K3 can see its
USB chip, even when the radio is turned off. This change would
mean that the computer would no longer see the radio over USB,
which might have annoying software effects.

A similar thing could happen to the antenna inputs.

Key/Paddle, microphone, headphones, RS232, etc. would be treated
the same way.

The AUXbus would be treated similarly, but anything that can be
turned on via the AUXbus would need special handling.

The 12V power input is needed to turn the radio on with the
power button. I don't know how often radios are damaged through
their 12V power input. This input may not need protection.
Otherwise, the relay that protects power and the switch to the
radio could be the only things powered when the radio is off. If
it can't be protected, it could be made easily field replaceable.

It would be neat if there's enough room inside a K4 to put this
kind of protection "under the covers".

73 Bill AE6JV

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the     |
[phone]      | battle to the strong, but that's the way to
bet. |
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Runyon                             |

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[hb9cvq]

Hi Bill,

Just a general remark:

I think we need to divide protection into different topologies/ barriers/
zones. This is  according to threat phenomena ( e.g. xxx kilo Amps to milli
Amps and smaller ).

Threat levels need to be reduced step by step  and systematically.
Surge Limiters / Filtering / Shielding / System Layout with minimizing
coupling effects are part of this.

Protection against any threat level ( EMI energy / current / voltage /EM
field derivatives)  can/should realistically and economically not be
implemented just finally at the radio itself.

Lightning is first of all a more external system problem (Tower / Station
Single Entry Panel Point / Cable- Layout, loop, spark over voltage /
conductor melting/welding...).
While lower threat levels, like adverse subsystem (shack) coupling of
transients / continuous waves etc. -EMI/ESD Immunity- are certainly part of
the good EMC radio/design .

Professional EMC Standards (EU-HAM Radio, EN ETSI  301783...

https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_en/301700_301799/301783/02.01.01_60/en_301
783v020101p.pdf


and specific System Experience http://k9yc.com/publish.htm  -also from big
contest stations-  tell you what to do in HAM Radio electronics.


Tnx, Cu, vy 73 de Andy
HB9CVQ, DK2VQ, AK4IG

https://www.qrz.com/db/HB9CVQ


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On
Behalf Of Bill Frantz
Sent: Montag, 18. Januar 2021 04:34
To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] Automatic lightning protection for radios, an off the
wall idea

I've been thinking about some kind of automatic lightning protection for
radios, specifically ones like the K3 and K4. The idea is that when you turn
the radio off, all the things that are subject to damage are protected by
disconnecting them from the external world and shorting their inputs to
ground.

This approach probably wouldn't protect against a direct hit to one of the
wires coming into the radio, which are most likely on the antenna input and
the power from a solar system. But I understand that the most significant
part of the problem is voltage spikes introduced when the external wires act
as antennas and pick up nearby lightning strikes.

I'm not a hardware engineer, so I'm going to assume that relays are used in
this device. Some of the things I see this device doing are:

USB connection: Elecraft tells us that blown USB chips are one of the more
common forms of lightning damage in the K3. There are 4 wires in the USB
interface, two of which carry power from the external world. The relay(s)
would float the USB wires and ground the connections to the internal USB
chip. Since power from the external world is present when the radio is off,
we can't ground the power leads, although we can ground the power input to
the radio's USB chip.

Note that currently a computer attached to the K3 can see its USB chip, even
when the radio is turned off. This change would mean that the computer would
no longer see the radio over USB, which might have annoying software
effects.

A similar thing could happen to the antenna inputs.

Key/Paddle, microphone, headphones, RS232, etc. would be treated the same
way.

The AUXbus would be treated similarly, but anything that can be turned on
via the AUXbus would need special handling.

The 12V power input is needed to turn the radio on with the power button. I
don't know how often radios are damaged through their 12V power input. This
input may not need protection.
Otherwise, the relay that protects power and the switch to the radio could
be the only things powered when the radio is off. If it can't be protected,
it could be made easily field replaceable.

It would be neat if there's enough room inside a K4 to put this kind of
protection "under the covers".

73 Bill AE6JV

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz        | The race is not always to the swift, nor
the     |
[phone]      | battle to the strong, but that's the way to
bet. |
www.pwpconsult.com |       - Damon
Runyon                             |

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[Jim Brown-10]

This is VERY good advice. The most important thing we can do to minimize
lightning damage is to seriously implement proper grounding and bonding
in our stations and throughout our homes. N0AX's ARRL Book on the topic
is a great reference; I collaborated with him on it. Also study the
slides for talks I've done at west coast hamfests. Don't let the word
"audio" in the link fool you. This is about EVERY element of grounding
and bonding specifically for ham radio.

http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf

Another VERY important thing is to NEVER use shunt mode (MOV) type surge
protectors anywhere except at the Service Entrance (where power enters
the building). MOVs are more likely to CAUSE destructive failure than to
prevent it.

Surge-X, Brick Wall, and a third company whose name I've forgotten make
series-mode surge protectors. They're more expensive, but a LOT cheaper
than our radios. There's a brief discussion of series-mode vs shunt mode
beginning on page 28 of this link

http://k9yc.com/SurgeXPowerGround.pdf

A far more extensive discussion begins with slide #69 in this link. It's
by Andy Benton, a very good engineer who designed the Surge-X products.
This is the first part of a 4-hour talk that Andy and I did at
conventions for companies designing and installing professional audio
and video systems in public buildings and for corporate operations.

http://k9yc.com/InfoComm-PowerSystems2012.pdf

My good friend Bill is right on about very high currents and voltages
being induced on wiring inside our homes. In addition to antennas,
lightning comes in on power lines, telephone lines, and CATV lines.

Finally, I want to emphasize what I said at the start about doing this
VERY seriously. Lightning has a way of finding things we didn't do.

73, Jim K9YC

On 1/17/2021 9:19 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> I think we need to divide protection into different topologies/ barriers/
> zones. This is  according to threat phenomena ( e.g. xxx kilo Amps to milli
> Amps and smaller ).
>
> Threat levels need to be reduced step by step  and systematically.
> Surge Limiters / Filtering / Shielding / System Layout with minimizing
> coupling effects are part of this.
>
> Protection against any threat level ( EMI energy / current / voltage /EM
> field derivatives)  can/should realistically and economically not be
> implemented just finally at the radio itself.
>
> Lightning is first of all a more external system problem (Tower / Station
> Single Entry Panel Point / Cable- Layout, loop, spark over voltage /
> conductor melting/welding...).
> While lower threat levels, like adverse subsystem (shack) coupling of
> transients / continuous waves etc. -EMI/ESD Immunity- are certainly part of
> the good EMC radio/design .
>
> Professional EMC Standards (EU-HAM Radio, EN ETSI  301783...
>
> https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_en/301700_301799/301783/02.01.01_60/en_301
> 783v020101p.pdf
>
>
> and specific System Experiencehttp://k9yc.com/publish.htm   -also from big
> contest stations-  tell you what to do in HAM Radio electronics.

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[Charles Hardt]

I would not want a high static discharges such as a lightning near miss in my K4 or any radio I have.  Nor would I want it in my house.  I am thinking of antennas discharge.

IMHO,
& 73,
Charlie, N2PKW

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Bill Frantz
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2021 9:34 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: [EXT]: [Elecraft] Automatic lightning protection for radios, an off the wall idea

I've been thinking about some kind of automatic lightning protection for radios, specifically ones like the K3 and K4. The idea is that when you turn the radio off, all the things that are subject to damage are protected by disconnecting them from the external world and shorting their inputs to ground.

This approach probably wouldn't protect against a direct hit to one of the wires coming into the radio, which are most likely on the antenna input and the power from a solar system. But I understand that the most significant part of the problem is voltage spikes introduced when the external wires act as antennas and pick up nearby lightning strikes.

I'm not a hardware engineer, so I'm going to assume that relays are used in this device. Some of the things I see this device doing are:

USB connection: Elecraft tells us that blown USB chips are one of the more common forms of lightning damage in the K3. There are 4 wires in the USB interface, two of which carry power from the external world. The relay(s) would float the USB wires and ground the connections to the internal USB chip. Since power from the external world is present when the radio is off, we can't ground the power leads, although we can ground the power input to the radio's USB chip.

Note that currently a computer attached to the K3 can see its USB chip, even when the radio is turned off. This change would mean that the computer would no longer see the radio over USB, which might have annoying software effects.

A similar thing could happen to the antenna inputs.

Key/Paddle, microphone, headphones, RS232, etc. would be treated the same way.

The AUXbus would be treated similarly, but anything that can be turned on via the AUXbus would need special handling.

The 12V power input is needed to turn the radio on with the power button. I don't know how often radios are damaged through their 12V power input. This input may not need protection.
Otherwise, the relay that protects power and the switch to the radio could be the only things powered when the radio is off. If it can't be protected, it could be made easily field replaceable.

It would be neat if there's enough room inside a K4 to put this kind of protection "under the covers".

73 Bill AE6JV

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz        | The race is not always to the swift, nor
the     |
[phone]      | battle to the strong, but that's the way to
bet. |
www.pwpconsult.com |       - Damon
Runyon                             |

______________________________________________________________
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[Bill Frantz]

I also received a link to:

<https://dl4zao.de/projekte/index.html#a1642> which is also an
antenna disconnect. Note that the web page is in German, but you
can download an English version of the manual.

A device that only disconnects the antenna fixes only part of
the problem. What I would really like is a box that covers all
the radio's connections.

It may not be necessary to cover all the connections. Elecraft
support probably has a good idea of what in the radio survives
nearby lightning strikes and what dies.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 1/19/21 at 10:35 AM, [hidden email] (Joe Pugliano) wrote:

>Check out this Paradan antenna disconnect.
>Paradan Radio Antenna Disconnect Actuators P-ADA-1

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