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Bad Assumptions

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alorona

Bad Assumptions

There seems to be an almost universal assumption that, if you have a transceiver in the shack, it is connected to a computer full-time.

That is certainly not the case. Plenty --perhaps most-- of hams operate their rigs in a standalone mode without computer, even while at home. This may come as a shock to some of you. Exceptions to this rule include while updating firmware.

This bad assumption usually rears its head when someone asks, "What's the best way to operate split?" or, "How do you use the CW memories?" and someone immediately responds, "Well I push this here button in my favorite software and everything works great."

I'm always frustrated and even a little annoyed by responses like this. A response like this is not answering exactly what was asked. Or at least, it assumes far too much.

I recommend that, unless computer control is explicitly mentioned by the original poster, we shouldn't automatically offer a solution that requires a computer to work. Original posters should be more clear about whether a computer can be part of the solution.

Al W6LX
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Jim Brown-10

Re: Bad Assumptions

On Mon,2/16/2015 5:10 PM, Al Lorona wrote:
> Plenty --perhaps most-- of hams operate their rigs in a standalone mode without computer, even while at home.

Interesting observation. Because contesters have been such a large part
of the K3 customer base, our needs and habits tend to be considered "the
norm." While it's certainly true that many (most?) casual operators
don't use computer control, I'd also bet that those casual ops are not a
majority of the K3 user base.

After a long period (15+ years) of inactivity, I got back on the air in
2003. That happened on Field Day at a club I visited, and they used
Writelog with a serial port to their radios. The last time I'd
contested was 20 years before, with paper logs and dupe sheets. :)

A few weeks later, I was back on the air at home. I logged on paper for
a week or two, but I soon learned about DXKeeper, and an older Thinkpad
that I'd replaced in my small business found a permanent home in the
shack. I also bought WriteLog, and needed the computer connection.

At least one computer has been in my shack ever since. Eventually I
started using Commander, the control software that goes with DXKeeper to
read the rig frequency and mode and put it in the log. Then, when LOTW
and eQSL came along, it became very easy to upload my entire post-2003
logs.

Most hams who are not contesters have computers hooked up to their rigs
when they want to operate digital modes, but they may or may not use a
serial port for rig control. DXers often use CW Skimmer, which needs rig
control.

73, Jim K9YC

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Gary Gregory-2

Re: Bad Assumptions

Well i guess those of us who do not contest have to live with what
contesters have on their wish list.
But i do wonder where all those k3's live who are not vocal on the
reflector.
Don't they at least deserve to be considered prior to changes in the way we
operate daily?
I think we do.
I think Elecraft have lost their way somewhat.

Gary
Vk1ZZ
K3, KX3, KPA500-FT, KAT500-FT,P3.
On 17/02/2015 11:35 AM, "Jim Brown" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon,2/16/2015 5:10 PM, Al Lorona wrote:
>
>> Plenty --perhaps most-- of hams operate their rigs in a standalone mode
>> without computer, even while at home.
>>
>
> Interesting observation. Because contesters have been such a large part
> of the K3 customer base, our needs and habits tend to be considered "the
> norm." While it's certainly true that many (most?) casual operators don't
> use computer control, I'd also bet that those casual ops are not a majority
> of the K3 user base.
>
> After a long period (15+ years) of inactivity, I got back on the air in
> 2003. That happened on Field Day at a club I visited, and they used
> Writelog with a serial port to their radios. The last time I'd contested
> was 20 years before, with paper logs and dupe sheets. :)
>
> A few weeks later, I was back on the air at home. I logged on paper for a
> week or two, but I soon learned about DXKeeper, and an older Thinkpad that
> I'd replaced in my small business found a permanent home in the shack. I
> also bought WriteLog, and needed the computer connection.
>
> At least one computer has been in my shack ever since. Eventually I
> started using Commander, the control software that goes with DXKeeper to
> read the rig frequency and mode and put it in the log. Then, when LOTW and
> eQSL came along, it became very easy to upload my entire post-2003 logs.
>
> Most hams who are not contesters have computers hooked up to their rigs
> when they want to operate digital modes, but they may or may not use a
> serial port for rig control. DXers often use CW Skimmer, which needs rig
> control.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
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>

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Elecraft mailing list

Re: Bad Assumptions

I am not a contester, but do have a computer hook up to my K3 for logging my contacts with less typing since MacLoggerDX takes the freq and mode and upper/lower sideband from the rig. I could use the computer for rig control, but I like to spin the knob so usually don't use rig control. 73 de Dave KJ6CBS
From: Gary Gregory <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc: Elecraft List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Bad Assumptions

Well i guess those of us who do not contest have to live with what
contesters have on their wish list.
But i do wonder where all those k3's live who are not vocal on the
reflector.
Don't they at least deserve to be considered prior to changes in the way we
operate daily?
I think we do.
I think Elecraft have lost their way somewhat.

Gary
Vk1ZZ
K3, KX3, KPA500-FT, KAT500-FT,P3.
On 17/02/2015 11:35 AM, "Jim Brown" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
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kevinr@coho.net

Re: Bad Assumptions

I actively keep a computer out of my shack for one reason: it would be
too much like WORK! (Use your Maynard G. Krebs voice here) I am in
front of a computer all my working day I don't intend to let work invade
my hobby. I drag a laptop into the shack to upgrade my K3's firmware
every few years. I also use it to log my FD contacts. Other than that
the computer is not allowed in the shack. I purchased my K3 because it
sounded like a good idea after using my K2 for so many years. I could
blame Lisa for my purchase but she is far too nice to be used as an
excuse :)
73,
Kevin. KD5ONS

On 2/16/2015 6:34 PM, David Guernsey via Elecraft wrote:

> I am not a contester, but do have a computer hook up to my K3 for logging my contacts with less typing since MacLoggerDX takes the freq and mode and upper/lower sideband from the rig. I could use the computer for rig control, but I like to spin the knob so usually don't use rig control. 73 de Dave KJ6CBS
> From: Gary Gregory <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: Elecraft List <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 7:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Bad Assumptions
>
> Well i guess those of us who do not contest have to live with what
> contesters have on their wish list.
> But i do wonder where all those k3's live who are not vocal on the
> reflector.
> Don't they at least deserve to be considered prior to changes in the way we
> operate daily?
> I think we do.
> I think Elecraft have lost their way somewhat.
>
> Gary
> Vk1ZZ
> K3, KX3, KPA500-FT, KAT500-FT,P3.
> On 17/02/2015 11:35 AM, "Jim Brown" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On Mon,2/16/2015 5:10 PM, Al Lorona wrote:
>>
>>> Plenty --perhaps most-- of hams operate their rigs in a standalone mode
>>> without computer, even while at home.
>>>
>> Interesting observation. Because contesters have been such a large part
>> of the K3 customer base, our needs and habits tend to be considered "the
>> norm." While it's certainly true that many (most?) casual operators don't
>> use computer control, I'd also bet that those casual ops are not a majority
>> of the K3 user base.
>>
>> After a long period (15+ years) of inactivity, I got back on the air in
>> 2003. That happened on Field Day at a club I visited, and they used
>> Writelog with a serial port to their radios. The last time I'd contested
>> was 20 years before, with paper logs and dupe sheets. :)
>>
>> A few weeks later, I was back on the air at home. I logged on paper for a
>> week or two, but I soon learned about DXKeeper, and an older Thinkpad that
>> I'd replaced in my small business found a permanent home in the shack. I
>> also bought WriteLog, and needed the computer connection.
>>
>> At least one computer has been in my shack ever since. Eventually I
>> started using Commander, the control software that goes with DXKeeper to
>> read the rig frequency and mode and put it in the log. Then, when LOTW and
>> eQSL came along, it became very easy to upload my entire post-2003 logs.
>>
>> Most hams who are not contesters have computers hooked up to their rigs
>> when they want to operate digital modes, but they may or may not use a
>> serial port for rig control. DXers often use CW Skimmer, which needs rig
>> control.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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k6dgw

Re: OT Bad Assumptions

In reply to this post by alorona

I too like to use my radio, not the computer, for casual and other
non-frantic QSO's. :-)

Based on the number of posts/questions about HRD and other radio control
software, I think that might be a valid if not universal assumption. I
think it's safe to say all contesters do, although I ran the Locust QSO
Party QRP with my K2, a #2, and a piece of paper recently. It's likely
that virtually all RTTY/Digital ops use a computer too [so far, I can
recognize my call and "TU" on RTTY by ear, if I've been doing it for the
last 3 hours and in the same exchange].

Al, I agree with you that, with the proliferation of external devices
and software, an awful lot of the discussions here apply to getting a
Signalink or MicroHam thingy working rather than to Elecraft equipment.
K1's, K2's, K3's, and KX3's behave as they were designed. If you're
going to add extra external stuff, you will have to deal with the makers
of the external stuff, it's not Elecraft's fault. This list is a good
resource for that and, at some juncture, it may be good to take it
"off-line" to resolution.

I have my laptop interfaced to my K3/P3/KAT500/KPA500. I use that
interface and N1MM/MMTTY in contests ... well most of them. I chase
SOTA activators a lot using a homebrew logger that will create .csv
files to upload to the SOTA database, but which does not control or read
anything from the K3.

I confess, I have a Pigknob, external device, it solves some orthopedic
issues for me.

I added OT to the subject because it is.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
- www.cqp.org

On 2/16/2015 5:10 PM, Al Lorona wrote:

> There seems to be an almost universal assumption that, if you have a
> transceiver in the shack, it is connected to a computer full-time.
>
> That is certainly not the case. Plenty --perhaps most-- of hams
> operate their rigs in a standalone mode without computer, even while
> at home. This may come as a shock to some of you. Exceptions to this
> rule include while updating firmware.
>
> This bad assumption usually rears its head when someone asks, "What's
> the best way to operate split?" or, "How do you use the CW memories?"
> and someone immediately responds, "Well I push this here button in my
> favorite software and everything works great."
>
> I'm always frustrated and even a little annoyed by responses like
> this. A response like this is not answering exactly what was asked.
> Or at least, it assumes far too much.
>
> I recommend that, unless computer control is explicitly mentioned by
> the original poster, we shouldn't automatically offer a solution that
> requires a computer to work. Original posters should be more clear
> about whether a computer can be part of the solution.
>
>
> Al W6LX

Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: OT Bad Assumptions

Some of us like CW, and use a set of paddles, or a straight key.

Some like SSB, and wouldn't have a radio without a microphone plugged in.

.... and others love modes like PSK-31 or JT65.

For those of us who run digital modes, there is always a computer.

On 2/16/2015 7:27 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
> I too like to use my radio, not the computer, for casual and other
> non-frantic QSO's. :-)

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Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: OT Bad Assumptions

P.S. the typical laptop is a lot more pleasant than a 28KSR.

Now if I could just find a computer with green keys.

On 2/16/2015 8:17 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:

> Some of us like CW, and use a set of paddles, or a straight key.
>
> Some like SSB, and wouldn't have a radio without a microphone plugged in.
>
> .... and others love modes like PSK-31 or JT65.
>
> For those of us who run digital modes, there is always a computer.
>
> On 2/16/2015 7:27 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
>> I too like to use my radio, not the computer, for casual and other
>> non-frantic QSO's. :-)
>

Bill Frantz

Re: Bad Assumptions

In reply to this post by alorona

While I enter several contestes a year, I try to do my share of
DX and rag chewing. I usually have a computer hooked to my rigs.
SInce I try to upload every HF contact to LotW -- I even log net
control for the Elecraft SSB net and anyone I relayed for I need
my QSOs in machine readable form. Entering them into RUMlog when
I make them saves a lot of the kind of clerical work I am bad at
and don't like to do, as well as avoiding the transcription
errors I make all too frequently.

Unless I'm running digital modes, all radio operation is through
the knobs and buttons. I think RUMped does some rig control, but
I only run it during contests, and don't really notice what it
is doing -- the best kind of assistant.

I even went to the extent of building a low power, BeagleBone
Black based computer system for field day/SOTA like uses. I
haven't spent much time using it, but building it and its case
was fun.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 2/17/15 at 6:34 PM, [hidden email] (David Guernsey
via Elecraft) wrote:

>I am not a contester, but do have a computer hook up to my K3
>for logging my contacts with less typing since MacLoggerDX
>takes the freq and mode and upper/lower sideband from the rig.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | There are now so many exceptions to the
408-356-8506 | Fourth Amendment that it operates only by
www.pwpconsult.com | accident. - William Hugh Murray

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Paul Gordon N6LL

Re: way OT Bad Assumptions

In reply to this post by Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

I ran a ham radio booth at a high school robotics competition last
weekend. A 28KSR would have gotten a lot more attention than the
computer did.
- Paul N6LL
On 2/16/2015 8:21 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:

> P.S. the typical laptop is a lot more pleasant than a 28KSR.
>
> Now if I could just find a computer with green keys.
>
> On 2/16/2015 8:17 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
>> Some of us like CW, and use a set of paddles, or a straight key.
>>
>> Some like SSB, and wouldn't have a radio without a microphone plugged
>> in.
>>
>> .... and others love modes like PSK-31 or JT65.
>>
>> For those of us who run digital modes, there is always a computer.
>>
>> On 2/16/2015 7:27 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
>>> I too like to use my radio, not the computer, for casual and other
>>> non-frantic QSO's. :-)
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>
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>

mike

Re: Bad Assumptions

In reply to this post by Bill Frantz

The fun thing about ham radio is all of the different activities you can participate in. For me chasing DX has always been my main focus. I also work the occasional contest and in both of these activities the modern computer assisted operating station (Elecraft K-line, SDR-IQ, Dell I7 computer) is the way I choose to go. It is a challenge to integrate the software/firmware/hardware, and after retiring from 45 years working (Bank of America Computer Systems) and teaching (local Community Collage) computer technology, it keeps my very old brain working hard. (These daze I can't remember if I brushed my teeth this morning.) I am not big on digital, yet, but who knows when i will get a itch to expand that operating mode.

On the other hand, for me at least, I don't get as much kick out of using this setup for ragchewing or participating in nets. That's where the operating position on the other side the shack comes in...Drake Paradise (well at least for me.) I pined after these Drake rigs when I could not afford them in the 70's and now they provide me with dials and meters and knobs, and opportunities to rebuild and upgrade them, pulling their cases off and soldering and wiring like I never really did before. And that makes me smile. The Drake Yahoo Group is just as accommodating as the Elecraft reflector, with wisdom and camaraderie. There is no computer on the Drake side of the shack, so operating and logging is totally old school, paper and pen. Of course the schematics and manuals are available on the Dell computer across the room, but a three-ring binder holds all the paper manuals and pertinent data for the rigs I have.

I count myself as very lucky to be enjoying old and new ham radio in my retirement years. Modern radios will continue to improve and computers will continue to find their way into a modern shack. That is not stoppable. But any ham can draw his/her line anywhere when it comes to technology. Or if they are lucky enough they can have both ham worlds to operate in.

PS. I don't even own a smart phone...I keep my flip phone on me in case I need to call 911 in a hurry! And it has a good enough camera to capture images of my dis-assembling a Drake rig so I can put it back together again. That's one of the lines I have drawn! 73 ..mike AI6II

Fred Smith-2

Re: Bad Assumptions

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

I consider myself a very casual operator by any means either contesting or
DX'ing and use at the very least 3 computers for the shack only and at times
4-5 computers. I have became very dependent on them over the years and even
use them in the field portable.

When working some modes they are a must have to do so on UHF/VHF/HF all.

73,
Fred/N0AZZ
K3 Ser # 6730--KX3 # 5210--K2/100 # 6470-KAT100
P3/SVGA--KAT500--W2
Amps Elecraft KPA500 HF/6m--Alpha's 9500 HF--87A HF--Mirage B-5030-G
300+w--(2) B-5016-G's 165w 2m

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim
Brown
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 7:35 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Bad Assumptions

On Mon,2/16/2015 5:10 PM, Al Lorona wrote:
> Plenty --perhaps most-- of hams operate their rigs in a standalone mode
without computer, even while at home.

Interesting observation. Because contesters have been such a large part of
the K3 customer base, our needs and habits tend to be considered "the norm."
While it's certainly true that many (most?) casual operators don't use
computer control, I'd also bet that those casual ops are not a majority of
the K3 user base.

After a long period (15+ years) of inactivity, I got back on the air in
2003. That happened on Field Day at a club I visited, and they used Writelog
with a serial port to their radios. The last time I'd contested was 20
years before, with paper logs and dupe sheets. :)

A few weeks later, I was back on the air at home. I logged on paper for a
week or two, but I soon learned about DXKeeper, and an older Thinkpad that
I'd replaced in my small business found a permanent home in the shack. I
also bought WriteLog, and needed the computer connection.

At least one computer has been in my shack ever since. Eventually I started
using Commander, the control software that goes with DXKeeper to read the
rig frequency and mode and put it in the log. Then, when LOTW and eQSL came
along, it became very easy to upload my entire post-2003 logs.

Most hams who are not contesters have computers hooked up to their rigs when
they want to operate digital modes, but they may or may not use a serial
port for rig control. DXers often use CW Skimmer, which needs rig control.

73, Jim K9YC

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ve3dvy

Re: Bad Assumptions

In reply to this post by alorona

I somewhat agree that there is a lower ratio of computer connected
users than one would think. Some time ago I asked around the club
who had computer hookup and who did not. I then did a presentation on
logging software using Logger32. and later with N1MM this was a few
years ago.

My findings were that most did not have the computer connected for CAT
control. those that had older rigs didn't, Id say less than a half
with newer rigs were connected. Some using the yeasu DMU (if that
counts as a computer) even some that did digital only had just
the audio connections no RS232. myself included before I had the K3.

For the Contesters the ratio was higher probably half Most of
our contesters are casual but even a few of the more intense
contesters still have no RS232 or equivalent connected. they
manually entered the band into their software.

Almost all of these members have computers in the shack. I think
in some cases is they feel that since they have never had it before
they don't want it now. others have said "the radio has knobs to
control it why bother with a computer" some just say "Oh I'm not a
computer person and don't understand that stuff" I think there
are some misconceptions out there one being that if you hook a radio
up to the computer you have to control it that way. I blame HRD for
this as it sure makes it look that way even though its still not the
case. the other is that its complicated and difficult. Many don't
really understand the potential of using some level of computer
connection. In my case its very little mostly just the information
gathering like mode frequency etc and using the band map and Packet
cluster feed and being able to just click and automatically tune to a
new or interesting spot. Today I think the ratio of those that have
a connected computer is going up. I often offer assistance in this.

There are only two of us that have K3s in the club. I've had mine
for several years and the other member has only had his for a month or
so. ( Hi Ken.) both of us have computer connections.

I would assume however and yes this is an assumption that since the
K3 is a complex rig that is most often purchased by those that are
more than just the occasional ham, I suspect that the number of people
with RS232 connections is significantly higher than my findings
covering members that own a broad range of radio types. Personally
I couldn't wait to get a rig that could be hooked up the K3s
predecessor was a TS430s which cant be connected.

For those that have a computer in the shack for logging but don't have
the serial connection, give it a try. It offers allot of
conveniences that you might not recognize until you use it. If you
are logging with just about any half decent logging software it
probably will connect just fine, even if just for information
gathering.

If you dont have an RS232 port on your computer you can add either a
USB to RS232 adapter or better a multi port PCI or PCIE serial
adapter, these all can be had for less than $30 and much-much less
if you buy online.

David Moes
VE3DVY

> --- Original message ---
> Subject: [Elecraft] Bad Assumptions
> From: Al Lorona <[hidden email]>
> To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
> Date: Monday, 16/02/2015 8:10 PM
>
> There seems to be an almost universal assumption that, if you have a
> transceiver in the shack, it is connected to a computer full-time.
>
> That is certainly not the case. Plenty --perhaps most-- of hams
> operate their rigs in a standalone mode without computer, even while
> at home. This may come as a shock to some of you. Exceptions to this
> rule include while updating firmware.
>
> This bad assumption usually rears its head when someone asks, "What's
> the best way to operate split?" or, "How do you use the CW memories?"
> and someone immediately responds, "Well I push this here button in my
> favorite software and everything works great."
>
> I'm always frustrated and even a little annoyed by responses like
> this. A response like this is not answering exactly what was asked. Or
> at least, it assumes far too much.
>
> I recommend that, unless computer control is explicitly mentioned by
> the original poster, we shouldn't automatically offer a solution that
> requires a computer to work. Original posters should be more clear
> about whether a computer can be part of the solution.
>
>
> Al W6LX
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Chris Hallinan

Re: way OT Bad Assumptions

In reply to this post by Paul Gordon N6LL

On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 12:00 AM, Paul Gordon N6LL <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I ran a ham radio booth at a high school robotics competition last weekend.
> A 28KSR would have gotten a lot more attention than the computer did.
> - Paul N6LL

Ah, I miss my 33ASR! Can't even recall when or why I sold it. I
bought it brand new still on the pallet 3-ish decades ago :(

-Chris
K1AY
--
Life is like Linux - it never stands still.
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Joshua Gould, K8WXA

Re: Bad Assumptions

In reply to this post by ve3dvy

I'm going to chime in on this one.

As a somewhat new General Class operator and new KX3 owner, My KX3 has only
been disconnected from the laptop on my desk if I am either not home and
have the laptop and not the radio with me. Other than that it's connected
so that I don't have to enter the frequency, or mode into my Logging
software. RUMLog offers very little in the arena of rig control, so I do
almost all of my control from the radio. I can double click on a DX Spot
and it will QSY the radio and change the mode but that's it.

The radio that I borrowed from another ham when I first upgraded my license
was an Icom IC-765 that I had no way to interface to the computer. All of
my logs from those contacts are a generic 14.000 type of frequency... I'm
glad I can interface the KX3 to the computer and get the correct
information...

72,
Joshua Gould
K8WXA
EM89pn

KX3# 7465

On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 9:05 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I somewhat agree that there is a lower ratio of computer connected users
> than one would think. Some time ago I asked around the club who had
> computer hookup and who did not. I then did a presentation on logging
> software using Logger32. and later with N1MM this was a few years ago.
>
> My findings were that most did not have the computer connected for CAT
> control. those that had older rigs didn't, Id say less than a half with
> newer rigs were connected. Some using the yeasu DMU (if that counts as a
> computer) even some that did digital only had just the audio
> connections no RS232. myself included before I had the K3.
>
> For the Contesters the ratio was higher probably half Most of our
> contesters are casual but even a few of the more intense contesters still
> have no RS232 or equivalent connected. they manually entered the band
> into their software.
>
> Almost all of these members have computers in the shack. I think in
> some cases is they feel that since they have never had it before they don't
> want it now. others have said "the radio has knobs to control it why
> bother with a computer" some just say "Oh I'm not a computer person and
> don't understand that stuff" I think there are some misconceptions
> out there one being that if you hook a radio up to the computer you have
> to control it that way. I blame HRD for this as it sure makes it look
> that way even though its still not the case. the other is that its
> complicated and difficult. Many don't really understand the potential of
> using some level of computer connection. In my case its very little
> mostly just the information gathering like mode frequency etc and using
> the band map and Packet cluster feed and being able to just click and
> automatically tune to a new or interesting spot. Today I think the ratio
> of those that have a connected computer is going up. I often offer
> assistance in this.
>
> There are only two of us that have K3s in the club. I've had mine for
> several years and the other member has only had his for a month or so. (
> Hi Ken.) both of us have computer connections.
>
> I would assume however and yes this is an assumption that since the K3
> is a complex rig that is most often purchased by those that are more than
> just the occasional ham, I suspect that the number of people with RS232
> connections is significantly higher than my findings covering members that
> own a broad range of radio types. Personally I couldn't wait to get a
> rig that could be hooked up the K3s predecessor was a TS430s which cant
> be connected.
>
> For those that have a computer in the shack for logging but don't have the
> serial connection, give it a try. It offers allot of conveniences that
> you might not recognize until you use it. If you are logging with just
> about any half decent logging software it probably will connect just fine,
> even if just for information gathering.
>
> If you dont have an RS232 port on your computer you can add either a USB
> to RS232 adapter or better a multi port PCI or PCIE serial adapter, these
> all can be had for less than $30 and much-much less if you buy online.
>
>
> David Moes
> VE3DVY
>
>
> --- Original message ---
>> Subject: [Elecraft] Bad Assumptions
>> From: Al Lorona <[hidden email]>
>> To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Monday, 16/02/2015 8:10 PM
>>
>> There seems to be an almost universal assumption that, if you have a
>> transceiver in the shack, it is connected to a computer full-time.
>>
>> That is certainly not the case. Plenty --perhaps most-- of hams operate
>> their rigs in a standalone mode without computer, even while at home. This
>> may come as a shock to some of you. Exceptions to this rule include while
>> updating firmware.
>>
>> This bad assumption usually rears its head when someone asks, "What's the
>> best way to operate split?" or, "How do you use the CW memories?" and
>> someone immediately responds, "Well I push this here button in my favorite
>> software and everything works great."
>>
>> I'm always frustrated and even a little annoyed by responses like this. A
>> response like this is not answering exactly what was asked. Or at least, it
>> assumes far too much.
>>
>> I recommend that, unless computer control is explicitly mentioned by the
>> original poster, we shouldn't automatically offer a solution that requires
>> a computer to work. Original posters should be more clear about whether a
>> computer can be part of the solution.
>>
>>
>> Al W6LX
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Bob-270

Re: way OT Bad Assumptions

In reply to this post by Chris Hallinan

I still have an operational Model 15. Receive only at this time though. Uses a
Timewave 59Y in the Yaesu speaker box with all power supplies built in and opto
isolators for keyboard and selector magnet interface.

In many if not most cases even with visiting hams it generates more interest
than the entire K-Line.

73,
Bob
K2TK ex KN2TKR (1956) & K2TKR

On 2/17/2015 9:27 AM, Chris Hallinan wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 12:00 AM, Paul Gordon N6LL <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I ran a ham radio booth at a high school robotics competition last weekend.
>> A 28KSR would have gotten a lot more attention than the computer did.
>> - Paul N6LL
>
> Ah, I miss my 33ASR! Can't even recall when or why I sold it. I
> bought it brand new still on the pallet 3-ish decades ago :(
>
> -Chris
> K1AY
>

aj4ay

Re: OT Bad Assumptions

In reply to this post by Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

And the smell of oil!

Jay
AJ4AY
Mobile, AL

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 10:21 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT Bad Assumptions
>
> P.S. the typical laptop is a lot more pleasant than a 28KSR.
>
> Now if I could just find a computer with green keys.
>
> On 2/16/2015 8:17 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
> > Some of us like CW, and use a set of paddles, or a straight key.
> >
> > Some like SSB, and wouldn't have a radio without a microphone plugged
> in.
> >
> > .... and others love modes like PSK-31 or JT65.
> >
> > For those of us who run digital modes, there is always a computer.
> >
> > On 2/16/2015 7:27 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
> >> I too like to use my radio, not the computer, for casual and other
> >> non-frantic QSO's. :-)
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Rick Prather-3

Re: Bad Assumptions

In reply to this post by Joshua Gould, K8WXA

Joshua,

You say that "RUMlog offers very little in the arena for rig control".

Have you looked at the "K3 Control" panel in the Transceiver menu?

It offers many functions for rig control and what it doesn't have pre-set
up you can use by making and storing macros.

The macro buttons is where I keep EQ stettings, Mic selections. control of
the Text button, and splits.

RUMlog satisfies just about all my needs for computer control including
accessing the front panel memory buttons.

Rick
K6LE

On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 6:39 AM, Joshua Gould <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm going to chime in on this one.
>
> As a somewhat new General Class operator and new KX3 owner, My KX3 has only
> been disconnected from the laptop on my desk if I am either not home and
> have the laptop and not the radio with me. Other than that it's connected
> so that I don't have to enter the frequency, or mode into my Logging
> software. RUMLog offers very little in the arena of rig control, so I do
> almost all of my control from the radio. I can double click on a DX Spot
> and it will QSY the radio and change the mode but that's it.
>
> The radio that I borrowed from another ham when I first upgraded my license
> was an Icom IC-765 that I had no way to interface to the computer. All of
> my logs from those contacts are a generic 14.000 type of frequency... I'm
> glad I can interface the KX3 to the computer and get the correct
> information...
>
> 72,
> Joshua Gould
> K8WXA
> EM89pn
>
> KX3# 7465
>
> On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 9:05 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >
> > I somewhat agree that there is a lower ratio of computer connected users
> > than one would think. Some time ago I asked around the club who had
> > computer hookup and who did not. I then did a presentation on logging
> > software using Logger32. and later with N1MM this was a few years ago.
> >
> > My findings were that most did not have the computer connected for CAT
> > control. those that had older rigs didn't, Id say less than a half
> with
> > newer rigs were connected. Some using the yeasu DMU (if that counts as
> a
> > computer) even some that did digital only had just the audio
> > connections no RS232. myself included before I had the K3.
> >
> > For the Contesters the ratio was higher probably half Most of our
> > contesters are casual but even a few of the more intense contesters
> still
> > have no RS232 or equivalent connected. they manually entered the band
> > into their software.
> >
> > Almost all of these members have computers in the shack. I think in
> > some cases is they feel that since they have never had it before they
> don't
> > want it now. others have said "the radio has knobs to control it why
> > bother with a computer" some just say "Oh I'm not a computer person
> and
> > don't understand that stuff" I think there are some misconceptions
> > out there one being that if you hook a radio up to the computer you
> have
> > to control it that way. I blame HRD for this as it sure makes it look
> > that way even though its still not the case. the other is that its
> > complicated and difficult. Many don't really understand the potential
> of
> > using some level of computer connection. In my case its very little
> > mostly just the information gathering like mode frequency etc and using
> > the band map and Packet cluster feed and being able to just click and
> > automatically tune to a new or interesting spot. Today I think the
> ratio
> > of those that have a connected computer is going up. I often offer
> > assistance in this.
> >
> > There are only two of us that have K3s in the club. I've had mine for
> > several years and the other member has only had his for a month or so. (
> > Hi Ken.) both of us have computer connections.
> >
> > I would assume however and yes this is an assumption that since the K3
> > is a complex rig that is most often purchased by those that are more than
> > just the occasional ham, I suspect that the number of people with RS232
> > connections is significantly higher than my findings covering members
> that
> > own a broad range of radio types. Personally I couldn't wait to get a
> > rig that could be hooked up the K3s predecessor was a TS430s which cant
> > be connected.
> >
> > For those that have a computer in the shack for logging but don't have
> the
> > serial connection, give it a try. It offers allot of conveniences that
> > you might not recognize until you use it. If you are logging with just
> > about any half decent logging software it probably will connect just
> fine,
> > even if just for information gathering.
> >
> > If you dont have an RS232 port on your computer you can add either a USB
> > to RS232 adapter or better a multi port PCI or PCIE serial adapter,
> these
> > all can be had for less than $30 and much-much less if you buy online.
> >
> >
> > David Moes
> > VE3DVY
> >
> >
> > --- Original message ---
> >> Subject: [Elecraft] Bad Assumptions
> >> From: Al Lorona <[hidden email]>
> >> To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
> >> Date: Monday, 16/02/2015 8:10 PM
> >>
> >> There seems to be an almost universal assumption that, if you have a
> >> transceiver in the shack, it is connected to a computer full-time.
> >>
> >> That is certainly not the case. Plenty --perhaps most-- of hams operate
> >> their rigs in a standalone mode without computer, even while at home.
> This
> >> may come as a shock to some of you. Exceptions to this rule include
> while
> >> updating firmware.
> >>
> >> This bad assumption usually rears its head when someone asks, "What's
> the
> >> best way to operate split?" or, "How do you use the CW memories?" and
> >> someone immediately responds, "Well I push this here button in my
> favorite
> >> software and everything works great."
> >>
> >> I'm always frustrated and even a little annoyed by responses like this.
> A
> >> response like this is not answering exactly what was asked. Or at
> least, it
> >> assumes far too much.
> >>
> >> I recommend that, unless computer control is explicitly mentioned by the
> >> original poster, we shouldn't automatically offer a solution that
> requires
> >> a computer to work. Original posters should be more clear about whether
> a
> >> computer can be part of the solution.
> >>
> >>
> >> Al W6LX
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >>
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Joshua Gould, K8WXA

Re: Bad Assumptions

Rick,

Actually, no, I had never opened that up. I actually started reading the
programmers refrence and I was playing around in the KX3 Utility and
couldn't get any of my commands to work, but I think that's more of a I
need todo a bit of reading and go from there.

I'll have to play around with the control panel, but that' all I need is
another window... Hihi.

72,
Joshua Gould
K8WXA
EM89pn

KX3# 7465

On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 2:19 PM, Rick Prather <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Joshua,
>
> You say that "RUMlog offers very little in the arena for rig control".
>
> Have you looked at the "K3 Control" panel in the Transceiver menu?
>
> It offers many functions for rig control and what it doesn't have pre-set
> up you can use by making and storing macros.
>
> The macro buttons is where I keep EQ stettings, Mic selections. control of
> the Text button, and splits.
>
> RUMlog satisfies just about all my needs for computer control including
> accessing the front panel memory buttons.
>
> Rick
> K6LE
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 6:39 AM, Joshua Gould <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I'm going to chime in on this one.
> >
> > As a somewhat new General Class operator and new KX3 owner, My KX3 has
> only
> > been disconnected from the laptop on my desk if I am either not home and
> > have the laptop and not the radio with me. Other than that it's connected
> > so that I don't have to enter the frequency, or mode into my Logging
> > software. RUMLog offers very little in the arena of rig control, so I do
> > almost all of my control from the radio. I can double click on a DX Spot
> > and it will QSY the radio and change the mode but that's it.
> >
> > The radio that I borrowed from another ham when I first upgraded my
> license
> > was an Icom IC-765 that I had no way to interface to the computer. All
> of
> > my logs from those contacts are a generic 14.000 type of frequency... I'm
> > glad I can interface the KX3 to the computer and get the correct
> > information...
> >
> > 72,
> > Joshua Gould
> > K8WXA
> > EM89pn
> >
> > KX3# 7465
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 9:05 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I somewhat agree that there is a lower ratio of computer connected
> users
> > > than one would think. Some time ago I asked around the club who had
> > > computer hookup and who did not. I then did a presentation on logging
> > > software using Logger32. and later with N1MM this was a few years
> ago.
> > >
> > > My findings were that most did not have the computer connected for CAT
> > > control. those that had older rigs didn't, Id say less than a half
> > with
> > > newer rigs were connected. Some using the yeasu DMU (if that counts
> as
> > a
> > > computer) even some that did digital only had just the audio
> > > connections no RS232. myself included before I had the K3.
> > >
> > > For the Contesters the ratio was higher probably half Most of our
> > > contesters are casual but even a few of the more intense contesters
> > still
> > > have no RS232 or equivalent connected. they manually entered the band
> > > into their software.
> > >
> > > Almost all of these members have computers in the shack. I think in
> > > some cases is they feel that since they have never had it before they
> > don't
> > > want it now. others have said "the radio has knobs to control it
> why
> > > bother with a computer" some just say "Oh I'm not a computer person
> > and
> > > don't understand that stuff" I think there are some
> misconceptions
> > > out there one being that if you hook a radio up to the computer you
> > have
> > > to control it that way. I blame HRD for this as it sure makes it
> look
> > > that way even though its still not the case. the other is that its
> > > complicated and difficult. Many don't really understand the potential
> > of
> > > using some level of computer connection. In my case its very little
> > > mostly just the information gathering like mode frequency etc and
> using
> > > the band map and Packet cluster feed and being able to just click and
> > > automatically tune to a new or interesting spot. Today I think the
> > ratio
> > > of those that have a connected computer is going up. I often offer
> > > assistance in this.
> > >
> > > There are only two of us that have K3s in the club. I've had mine for
> > > several years and the other member has only had his for a month or
> so. (
> > > Hi Ken.) both of us have computer connections.
> > >
> > > I would assume however and yes this is an assumption that since the K3
> > > is a complex rig that is most often purchased by those that are more
> than
> > > just the occasional ham, I suspect that the number of people with RS232
> > > connections is significantly higher than my findings covering members
> > that
> > > own a broad range of radio types. Personally I couldn't wait to get
> a
> > > rig that could be hooked up the K3s predecessor was a TS430s which
> cant
> > > be connected.
> > >
> > > For those that have a computer in the shack for logging but don't have
> > the
> > > serial connection, give it a try. It offers allot of conveniences
> that
> > > you might not recognize until you use it. If you are logging with just
> > > about any half decent logging software it probably will connect just
> > fine,
> > > even if just for information gathering.
> > >
> > > If you dont have an RS232 port on your computer you can add either a
> USB
> > > to RS232 adapter or better a multi port PCI or PCIE serial adapter,
> > these
> > > all can be had for less than $30 and much-much less if you buy
> online.
> > >
> > >
> > > David Moes
> > > VE3DVY
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Original message ---
> > >> Subject: [Elecraft] Bad Assumptions
> > >> From: Al Lorona <[hidden email]>
> > >> To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
> > >> Date: Monday, 16/02/2015 8:10 PM
> > >>
> > >> There seems to be an almost universal assumption that, if you have a
> > >> transceiver in the shack, it is connected to a computer full-time.
> > >>
> > >> That is certainly not the case. Plenty --perhaps most-- of hams
> operate
> > >> their rigs in a standalone mode without computer, even while at home.
> > This
> > >> may come as a shock to some of you. Exceptions to this rule include
> > while
> > >> updating firmware.
> > >>
> > >> This bad assumption usually rears its head when someone asks, "What's
> > the
> > >> best way to operate split?" or, "How do you use the CW memories?" and
> > >> someone immediately responds, "Well I push this here button in my
> > favorite
> > >> software and everything works great."
> > >>
> > >> I'm always frustrated and even a little annoyed by responses like
> this.
> > A
> > >> response like this is not answering exactly what was asked. Or at
> > least, it
> > >> assumes far too much.
> > >>
> > >> I recommend that, unless computer control is explicitly mentioned by
> the
> > >> original poster, we shouldn't automatically offer a solution that
> > requires
> > >> a computer to work. Original posters should be more clear about
> whether
> > a
> > >> computer can be part of the solution.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Al W6LX
> > >> ______________________________________________________________
> > >> Elecraft mailing list
> > >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> > >>
> > >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > >> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> > >>
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________________________
> > > Elecraft mailing list
> > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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Stephen G4SJP

Re: Bad Assumptions

In reply to this post by Rick Prather-3

I fully agree about Rumlog. It's just great for the K3 (and KX3), and
there is plenty you can do with macros. There is a new version of Rumlog
about to be released soon as well :-)

73 Stephen G4SJP

On 17 February 2015 at 19:19, Rick Prather <[hidden email]> wrote: