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Bad Form

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Bad Form

I received an email this morning, to my personal address, from another operator I do not know, with a complaint about Elecraft. To that operator, do NOT do this again. To my fellow Elecraft mailman participants, be wary of such actors.

This is a tech sharing site that occasionally ventures into humor and customer service threads that, in my opinion, belong here by good-faith participants in this digital community. If continued abuse of personal addresses continues, my limited participation will be reduced to nil. I DO NOT WORK FOR ELECRAFT. Rather, I am a very satisfied customer.

My apologies for feeling I should take up your time and digital server space reacting to such nonsense.

Thank God 2020 is ending!

Keeping Watch-
shu

Joe Shuman, NZ8P
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Jim Rhodes-2

Re: Bad Form

In the past I have just set up a filter taking emails from specific
addresses straight to trash. Never see them, don't worry about them.

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020, 08:43 Joseph Shuman via Elecraft <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> I received an email this morning, to my personal address, from another
> operator I do not know, with a complaint about Elecraft. To that operator,
> do NOT do this again. To my fellow Elecraft mailman participants, be wary
> of such actors.
>
> This is a tech sharing site that occasionally ventures into humor and
> customer service threads that, in my opinion, belong here by good-faith
> participants in this digital community. If continued abuse of personal
> addresses continues, my limited participation will be reduced to nil. I DO
> NOT WORK FOR ELECRAFT. Rather, I am a very satisfied customer.
>
> My apologies for feeling I should take up your time and digital server
> space reacting to such nonsense.
>
> Thank God 2020 is ending!
>
> Keeping Watch-
> shu
>
> Joe Shuman, NZ8P
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

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Grant Youngman-2

Re: Bad Form

Had you posted something else, or responded to another post on the list? Another possibility, unless the email was clearly directed personally to you, is that a list responder hit “reply to” instead of “reply to all”, so it only appeared to be directed personally to you instead of the list.

Grant NQ5T

> On Dec 28, 2020, at 1:41 PM, Jim Rhodes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> In the past I have just set up a filter taking emails from specific
> addresses straight to trash. Never see them, don't worry about them.
>
> On Mon, Dec 28, 2020, 08:43 Joseph Shuman via Elecraft <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I received an email this morning, to my personal address, from another
>> operator I do not know, with a complaint about Elecraft. To that operator,
>> do NOT do this again. To my fellow Elecraft mailman participants, be wary
>> of such actors.
>>
>> This is a tech sharing site that occasionally ventures into humor and
>> customer service threads that, in my opinion, belong here by good-faith
>> participants in this digital community. If continued abuse of personal
>> addresses continues, my limited participation will be reduced to nil. I DO
>> NOT WORK FOR ELECRAFT. Rather, I am a very satisfied customer.
>>
>> My apologies for feeling I should take up your time and digital server
>> space reacting to such nonsense.
>>
>> Thank God 2020 is ending!
>>

Jim Rhodes-2

Re: Bad Form

I would still probably "blacklist" them with a filter. I get way too much
unsolicited email anyway.

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020, 13:25 Grant Youngman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Had you posted something else, or responded to another post on the list?
> Another possibility, unless the email was clearly directed personally to
> you, is that a list responder hit “reply to” instead of “reply to all”, so
> it only appeared to be directed personally to you instead of the list.
>
> Grant NQ5T
>
> > On Dec 28, 2020, at 1:41 PM, Jim Rhodes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > In the past I have just set up a filter taking emails from specific
> > addresses straight to trash. Never see them, don't worry about them.
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 28, 2020, 08:43 Joseph Shuman via Elecraft <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> I received an email this morning, to my personal address, from another
> >> operator I do not know, with a complaint about Elecraft. To that
> operator,
> >> do NOT do this again. To my fellow Elecraft mailman participants, be
> wary
> >> of such actors.
> >>
> >> This is a tech sharing site that occasionally ventures into humor and
> >> customer service threads that, in my opinion, belong here by good-faith
> >> participants in this digital community. If continued abuse of personal
> >> addresses continues, my limited participation will be reduced to nil.
> I DO
> >> NOT WORK FOR ELECRAFT. Rather, I am a very satisfied customer.
> >>
> >> My apologies for feeling I should take up your time and digital server
> >> space reacting to such nonsense.
> >>
> >> Thank God 2020 is ending!
> >>
>
>

Gwen Patton

Re: Bad Form

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

The reason for this happening is simple. The list is configured so that
when you REPLY to someone's post, it only puts that person's email address
in the TO: line. You have to ADD the Elecraft reflector address to that
address line to send it to the list. Most people who send individuals
things meant for the Elecraft list do not notice that this is happening, or
don't know how to fix it.

Perhaps we need to ask Elecraft to change the settings on the list, so
replies to a post ON the list is directed TO the list, instead of to the
person who initially posted it. Case in point, even though Joe posted this
to the list, my reply only has Joe's address on the TO: line. I will have
to add the list's address to it. I usually also remove the poster's
address, as there's no reason to send it to both addresses. Look at the
address headers in anyone's post to the list. The Reply-To: line shows the
poster's address. Not the Elecraft list.

So, Joe, this is not someone's deliberate attempt to annoy you, nor do they
somehow think you work for Elecraft. They don't. It's 95% certain that they
didn't intend to reply to only you, that they really wanted to post it to
the reflector. But they either didn't know or notice this was how the list
was configured, they didn't know how to fix it, or both. So yelling at them
isn't necessarily going to fix the problem. Reconfiguring the list so
replies go TO the list WILL.

I've run enough mailing lists and such over the past decades since such
things existed that I've seen this happen countless times. It's a list
configuration issue. Not an interpersonal one.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
73,
Gwen, NG3P

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 9:42 AM Joseph Shuman via Elecraft <
[hidden email]> wrote:

Jim Brown-10

Re: Bad Form

That depends on your email software. I've long used Thunderbird, which
gives me the choice of list or sender.

73, Jim K9YC

On 12/28/2020 12:20 PM, Gwen Patton wrote:
> The reason for this happening is simple. The list is configured so that
> when you REPLY to someone's post, it only puts that person's email address
> in the TO: line. You have to ADD the Elecraft reflector address to that
> address line to send it to the list. Most people who send individuals
> things meant for the Elecraft list do not notice that this is happening, or
> don't know how to fix it.

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Alan Bloom

Re: Bad Form

I'm also using Thunderbird, but when I chose "Reply List" it puts my own
email address in the "To" field instead of the list address.

I have to select "Reply All", in which case it does the right thing -
reply to the sender as well as the list.

I'm using Firefox 78.6.0 (32-bit) on a Windows 10 laptop. As I recall,
the Linux version of Thunderbird did the same thing when I was using a
Linux computer to access the Internet.

Alan N1AL

On 12/28/2020 1:42 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> That depends on your email software. I've long used Thunderbird, which
> gives me the choice of list or sender.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On 12/28/2020 12:20 PM, Gwen Patton wrote:
>> The reason for this happening is simple. The list is configured so that
>> when you REPLY to someone's post, it only puts that person's email
>> address
>> in the TO: line.

Don Wilhelm

Re: Bad Form

Alan,

My Thunderbird does not work like that - If I select "Reply to List", it
puts my email address in the Reply-to field and in the To field, it puts
the elecraft list address.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/28/2020 4:30 PM, Alan Bloom wrote:
> I'm also using Thunderbird, but when I chose "Reply List" it puts my own
> email address in the "To" field instead of the list address.
>
> I have to select "Reply All", in which case it does the right thing -
> reply to the sender as well as the list.
>
> I'm using Firefox 78.6.0 (32-bit) on a Windows 10 laptop. As I recall,
> the Linux version of Thunderbird did the same thing when I was using a
> Linux computer to access the Internet.
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Jim Brown-10

Thunderbird

In reply to this post by Alan Bloom

Hmmm. I've never had that problem. Are you sure you're using the latest
release? How it responds does, indeed, vary with how an email reflector
is set. For this reflector, if the post is only to the reflector, it
gives me the choice of Reflector or Sender. If, as you did, you
responded to the Reflector AND to me, I get the choice of Reply, which
goes to you, or Reply All, which goes to both you and the Reflector.

FWIW, when someone replies to a Reflector of which I'm a member, I
consider a second copy to me as spam.

73, Jim K9YC

On 12/28/2020 1:30 PM, Alan Bloom wrote:
> I'm also using Thunderbird, but when I chose "Reply List" it puts my own
> email address in the "To" field instead of the list address.

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Don Wilhelm

Re: Thunderbird

If the post is about a problem I can respond with an answer, I normally
"reply to all" so the list is updated, and I know that a copy is sent to
the poster.
Maybe my thinking is off, but I do not consider that as generating spam.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/28/2020 4:59 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>
> FWIW, when someone replies to a Reflector of which I'm a member, I
> consider a second copy to me as spam.
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Adrian-3

Re: Thunderbird

Yes, I don't think it was intentional malice. Email 'reply' will go to
the individual, 'reply to all' to individual(s) and list.

I like Jim, also use thunderbird, and 'Reply to list' does just that
without going to individual on the thread.

You can check the email before sending and edit in field in needed.

On 29/12/20 8:37 am, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> If the post is about a problem I can respond with an answer, I
> normally "reply to all" so the list is updated, and I know that a copy
> is sent to the poster.
> Maybe my thinking is off, but I do not consider that as generating spam.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 12/28/2020 4:59 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>
>> FWIW, when someone replies to a Reflector of which I'm a member, I
>> consider a second copy to me as spam.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

k6dgw

Re: Thunderbird

Actually, it's a bit variable, Mozilla has a penchant for nit noy
changes to the UI with each update. My Tbird is 78.6.0 [32-bit], it
updated a couple of days ago. I did "Reply List" for this message and
it is addressed only to the Elecraft List. That's different behavior
than before the update. For example, for quite awhile, additional
addresses were in a list format, one under another, and each line could
be a To, CC, or Bcc. Now, they just continue on the To: line.

It seems that there is really no alternative to paying attention to what
you're doing and how the program is responding.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 12/28/2020 2:45 PM, Adrian wrote:

> Yes, I don't think it was intentional malice. Email 'reply' will go to
> the individual, 'reply to all' to individual(s) and list.
>
> I like Jim, also use thunderbird, and 'Reply to list' does just that
> without going to individual on the thread.
>
> You can check the email before sending and edit in field in needed.
>
>
> On 29/12/20 8:37 am, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> If the post is about a problem I can respond with an answer, I
>> normally "reply to all" so the list is updated, and I know that a
>> copy is sent to the poster.
>> Maybe my thinking is off, but I do not consider that as generating spam.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 12/28/2020 4:59 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>>
>>> FWIW, when someone replies to a Reflector of which I'm a member, I
>>> consider a second copy to me as spam.
>>

Elecraft mailing list

Re: Bad Form

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Gwen -

I disagree. Having not made the content of the email public, the sender specifically stated they did not want the message to be published on the list. The message demeaned Elecraft as a company and accused them of illegal acts. Regardless of how, or why, I got the message, it was inappropriate, unwarranted and (based on other language in the email) intentionally sent only to me. I did, however, forward the message in it’s entirety to Elecraft support.

As for me, I am a very happy customer!

Keeping Watch-
shu

Joe Shuman, NZ8P
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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: Bad Form and Thunderbird Threads (End of Threads)

Administrator

In reply to this post by k6dgw

Folks, lets end the 'Bad Form' and 'Thunderbird' threads as they past the usual single topic posting limit.

73,
Eric
elecraft.com
_..._

> On Dec 28, 2020, at 3:10 PM, Fred Jensen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Actually, it's a bit variable, Mozilla has a penchant for nit noy changes to the UI with each update. My Tbird is 78.6.0 [32-bit], it updated a couple of days ago. I did "Reply List" for this message and it is addressed only to the Elecraft List. That's different behavior than before the update. For example, for quite awhile, additional addresses were in a list format, one under another, and each line could be a To, CC, or Bcc. Now, they just continue on the To: line.
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