Bad KPA100 PCB?
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Hello!
I am just in the process of building my KPA100. And I discover more and more solder points on the PCB where the solder is not accepted. Scraping the pads a bit helps a bit but I don't think this is a solution. Some details. I don't know where in the process it started but right now I'm on page 15 soldering the capacitors. And it's nearly every third hole that doesn't work. The solder sticks to the leads or the iron. I use the same iron and solder as with the other 10 PCBs of elecraft that I have built. I contacted elecraft about this issue but I wanted to ask if others have this problem too? What can I do? 73 Gerhard Schwanz DH3FAW mailto:[hidden email] http://www.gs-personal.de _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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I had a similar experience with my recently completed K2/100. The KPA100
board was the only one with the issue. It seemed to me that very few of the components were very delicate, so I increased the heat of the iron a bit and was able to get the pads to accept solder. Just be careful on the few delicate components. In the end everything worked out fine. Keith Regli (K7KAR) mailto:[hidden email] http://www.kregli.com -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gerhard Schwanz Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 7:06 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: [Elecraft] Bad KPA100 PCB? Hello! I am just in the process of building my KPA100. And I discover more and more solder points on the PCB where the solder is not accepted. Scraping the pads a bit helps a bit but I don't think this is a solution. Some details. I don't know where in the process it started but right now I'm on page 15 soldering the capacitors. And it's nearly every third hole that doesn't work. The solder sticks to the leads or the iron. I use the same iron and solder as with the other 10 PCBs of elecraft that I have built. I contacted elecraft about this issue but I wanted to ask if others have this problem too? What can I do? 73 Gerhard Schwanz DH3FAW mailto:[hidden email] http://www.gs-personal.de _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by GS-3
Gerhard,
I have found the KPA100 is more difficult to solder than other Elecraft kits, but I believe it is bacause that PC board uses thicker copper than the other kits and is especially noticable when soldering to a grounded pad. I increase the temperature on my soldering station to 750 to 800 degrees F. (400 to 430 degrees C.) and have no problem. The KPA100 manual states that a low wattage 800 degree F. soldering iron is required. Try increasing the temperature of your iron. Judging by your photo, I can definitely state that your iron is not hot enough, and the pads that give you the most trouble are the ground points. 73, Don W3FPR ----- Original Message ----- I am just in the process of building my KPA100. And I discover more and more solder points on the PCB where the solder is not accepted. Scraping the pads a bit helps a bit but I don't think this is a solution. Some details. I don't know where in the process it started but right now I'm on page 15 soldering the capacitors. And it's nearly every third hole that doesn't work. The solder sticks to the leads or the iron. I use the same iron and solder as with the other 10 PCBs of elecraft that I have built. I contacted elecraft about this issue but I wanted to ask if others have this problem too? What can I do? 73 Gerhard Schwanz DH3FAW mailto:[hidden email] http://www.gs-personal.de _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Don,
as allways - ? - you were right! I increased the temp to 430deg C and here I go. (Didn't know my iron could go beyond 400, I mostly use 300-330 without problem.) It still takes a bit longer to solder but the hole fills smoothly. Off the hook - the building can go on. :-) Regarding manual: I read the part with the needed iron but I understood the high power is needed for power transistor installation and such... And since everything else worked the way I did it before... Thank you very much! Gerhard Schwanz DH3FAW mailto:[hidden email] http://www.gs-personal.de ----- Original Message ----- From: "W3FPR - Don Wilhelm" <[hidden email]> To: "Gerhard Schwanz" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Bad KPA100 PCB? > Gerhard, > > I have found the KPA100 is more difficult to solder than other Elecraft > kits, but I believe it is bacause that PC board uses thicker copper than > the other kits and is especially noticable when soldering to a grounded pad. > > I increase the temperature on my soldering station to 750 to 800 degrees F. > (400 to 430 degrees C.) and have no problem. The KPA100 manual states that > a low wattage 800 degree F. soldering iron is required. > > Try increasing the temperature of your iron. Judging by your photo, I can > definitely state that your iron is not hot enough, and the pads that give > you the most trouble are the ground points. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > ----- Original Message ----- > > I am just in the process of building my KPA100. And I discover more and > solder points on the PCB where the solder is not accepted. Scraping the pads > a bit helps a bit but I don't think this is a solution. > > Some details. I don't know where in the process it started but right now I'm > on page 15 soldering the capacitors. And it's nearly every third hole that > doesn't work. The solder sticks to the leads or the iron. > > I use the same iron and solder as with the other 10 PCBs of elecraft that I > have built. > > I contacted elecraft about this issue but I wanted to ask if others have > this problem too? What can I do? > > 73 > > Gerhard Schwanz > DH3FAW > mailto:[hidden email] > http://www.gs-personal.de > > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Gerhard,
I have a secret - if I don't have a good answer, I try to keep my mouth shut <G> 73, Don W3FPR ----- Original Message ----- > Don, > > as allways - ? - you were right! > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by GS-3
Gerhard,
The other thing that will help is using the Biggest tip that will do a job for you. If you tip has more mass, it will tend to have less temperature drop as you solder those components. I did my mine with a 700F (370C) tip, but I used the biggest one for a given job. Glad you found a resolution to your problem. Tim Raymer At 08:55 01/28/2005, Gerhard Schwanz wrote: >I increased the temp to 430deg C and here I go.Off the hook - the building >can go on. Timothy A. Raymer Missouri Department of Health and Senior Services <traymer[at]mail.state.mo.us> <RaymeT[at]dhss.mo.gov> <KA0OUV[at]arrl.net> _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by GS-3
Gerhard wrote:
I mostly use 300-330 without problem.) It still takes a bit longer to solder but the hole fills smoothly. ----------------------- Gerhard, using too low of a temperature is more likely to harm delicate components than using a higher temperature. You do not want to hold an iron on the joint too long, even at 300C. It should be hot enough for the solder to flow within 2 or 3 seconds at the most. So cranking up the temperature close to 400C and getting the solder to flow quickly is easier on most parts - especially the I.C.s, transistors and diodes. I normally work at 375C (700F). That brings up another point for anyone using de-soldering braid. In that case 375C (700F) is not hot enough. The braid will pull too much heat away from the joint, meaning the joint has to "cook" for a long time to melt the solder. Like most of us, I prefer a solder sucker type of tool, but when I choose braid, I find no problem getting it to work with the iron at 425C (800F). "Cooking" a joint with a cooler iron will more likely debond the trace from the board! Ron AC7AC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Ron's points should be well taken by everyone. It takes 2 things together
to cook components and PC board traces - temperature and time, and actually the time factor is more critical than the temperature. If solder does not flow in 2 to 3 seconds, turn up the heat or use an iron with a larger tip (more heat mass). Modern components usually are speced to withstand soldering temperatures for 5 to10 seconds, so you are more likely to cause damage from the time element than with a high temperature. Keep those soldering irons between 700F (375C) and 800F (426C). PS - when the surface to be soldered is large (as on the KPA100 output transistors and transformers), use a large iron tip, a small tip will have the heat 'sucked out of it' by the large metal area on the PC board, and you will have to dwell on the joint a long time waiting for the iron (and PC board copper) to come up to temperature. 73, Don W3FPR ----- Original Message ----- You do not want to hold an iron on the joint too long, even at 300C. It should be hot enough for the solder to flow within 2 or 3 seconds at the most. So cranking up the temperature close to 400C and getting the solder to flow quickly is easier on most parts - especially the I.C.s, transistors and diodes. I normally work at 375C (700F). That brings up another point for anyone using de-soldering braid. In that case 375C (700F) is not hot enough. The braid will pull too much heat away from the joint, meaning the joint has to "cook" for a long time to melt the solder. Like most of us, I prefer a solder sucker type of tool, but when I choose braid, I find no problem getting it to work with the iron at 425C (800F). "Cooking" a joint with a cooler iron will more likely debond the trace from the board! _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-3
No wonder! I thought it was my iron, or solder. I had similar
results but everything soldered ok eventually. I was running my iron at 725 degrees F. I missed that part in the manual. That's what I get for being in a hurry to get started. I'll go back and find that in the manual. Makes sense that it would be thicker though, since the KPA100 board has to deal with a lot more heat than the K2 RF board. Stan Rife W5EWA Houston, TX K2 S/N 4216 -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of W3FPR - Don Wilhelm Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 8:41 AM To: Gerhard Schwanz; [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Bad KPA100 PCB? Gerhard, I have found the KPA100 is more difficult to solder than other Elecraft kits, but I believe it is bacause that PC board uses thicker copper than the other kits and is especially noticable when soldering to a grounded pad. I increase the temperature on my soldering station to 750 to 800 degrees F. (400 to 430 degrees C.) and have no problem. The KPA100 manual states that a low wattage 800 degree F. soldering iron is required. Try increasing the temperature of your iron. Judging by your photo, I can definitely state that your iron is not hot enough, and the pads that give you the most trouble are the ground points. 73, Don W3FPR ----- Original Message ----- I am just in the process of building my KPA100. And I discover more and more solder points on the PCB where the solder is not accepted. Scraping the pads a bit helps a bit but I don't think this is a solution. Some details. I don't know where in the process it started but right now I'm on page 15 soldering the capacitors. And it's nearly every third hole that doesn't work. The solder sticks to the leads or the iron. I use the same iron and solder as with the other 10 PCBs of elecraft that I have built. I contacted elecraft about this issue but I wanted to ask if others have this problem too? What can I do? 73 Gerhard Schwanz DH3FAW mailto:[hidden email] http://www.gs-personal.de _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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> The KPA100 manual states that a low wattage 800 degree F. soldering
iron is > required. No - it says that a temperature-controlled iron at 700 to 800 degree tip is required. It also states that a larger iron or soldering gun is required for the power transistors, output transformer and DC power wiring, and that a low-wattage iron *cannot* be used for these steps. I built the KPA100 with a small tip at 700 degrees with no problem. I did use a large tip for the power transistors, etc, but still at 700 degrees. I had no problems at all. On Fri, 2005-28-01 at 18:03 -0600, Stan Rife wrote: > No wonder! I thought it was my iron, or solder. I had similar > results but everything soldered ok eventually. I was running my iron at 725 > degrees F. I missed that part in the manual. 725 degrees should work fine. -- 73, Brian VE7NGR _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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