Best band for low cost DXing?

[Darwin, Keith]

If a person wants to work DX on a shoe string which band should they
focus on?  I'm assuming it is cheaper to pick one or two bands rather
than to try to be a big gun on all of them.  Yea, I know you can work DX
on just about anything but that isn't the point.  The question is which
band allows you to get the most bang for the buck.  
 
- 40 meters.  A vert of 1/4 to 3/8 wave makes you very competitive on
this band.  A dipole at 1/2 wave high is tough to do.  A Yagi is even
tougher.  The tall vertical is relatively easy and cheap while providing
a better low angle signal than a low horizontal antenna.
 
- 30 meters.  Again.  3/8 vertical.  The power limit on 30 makes for a
more level playing field.
 
- 15 meters.  Antenna sizes and heights are manageable.  Here a
mono-band yagi on a 25' pole will work well at a moderate cost.
 
Those are my thoughts.  What are yours?
 
- Keith N1AS -
- K2 5411.ssb.100 -
 
 
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[N2EY]

-----Original Message-----
From: Darwin, Keith <[hidden email]>

> DX on a shoe string

Depends on how big the shoes are. What is a minor expense for one person
is a major expense for others. Same for antenna space.

>- 40 meters.  A vert of 1/4 to 3/8 wave makes you very competitive on
>this band.

*IF* it's a good one, with a good ground/counterpoise/radial system, and
in the clear. If the RF has to go through trees, buildings and other
absorbers
to get to the sky, you may find a dipole is better.

> A dipole at 1/2 wave high is tough to do.

Depends on your situation (trees, etc.) What do you have?

>A Yagi is even
>tougher.  The tall vertical is relatively easy and cheap while
providing
>a better low angle signal than a low horizontal antenna.

>- 30 meters.  Again.  3/8 vertical.  The power limit on 30 makes for a
>more level playing field.

No DX contests either.

>- 15 meters.  Antenna sizes and heights are manageable.  Here a
>mono-band yagi on a 25' pole will work well at a moderate cost.

But at this point in the cycle, 15 is at best undependable. And
what you describe involves pole, rotator, etc.

>Those are my thoughts.  What are yours?

1) Why ignore 20 meters? Sure, the Big Boys will overpower you
there, but it's where the DX is.

2) What resources do you have? Large open space (rooftop is ideal)
 for a vertical with radials? Trees/tall house for a dipole?

3) You seem to favor a vertical. If you can put one up with a good
ground/counterpoise/radial system, and in the clear, that may be
the way to go *if* a high dipole (50 feet is plenty) isn't possible.

The problem I see with most manufactured verticals is that they're
expensive and have multiple traps.

What I'd suggest is a low-resistance (tubing, aluminum downspout,
multiple copper wires) vertical about 28-30 feet high - whatever
works out to be about 5/8 wave on 15 meters. With as extensive
a ground system as possible. A remote-controlled L network matcher
at the base permits tuning the antenna to resonance/low SWR on
any band from 40 to 15 meters. If 15 isn't a priority or you get a
Yagi for the band, go for more height to increase performance on
the lower bands. At around 42 feet, you'd have a 5/8 wave on 20
and more than a quarter wave on 40.

While manufactured remote-control matchers exist, you can make your
own and save $$. The trick is that the matcher only needs to match
your particular antenna on the bands you use. Such a matcher could
consist of a single tapped air inductor (large and homebrew, to save
money and be low loss) with one tap for each band,
taps being selected by relays. One variable capacitor turned by an
old electric-screwdriver motor does the rest. If you want to cover
4 bands (say, 40/30/20/15), you only need 3 relays and 4 control
wires plus ground. (There are tricks to reduce this even more but
for simplicity I'm going basic). Sure you have to find the taps by
experiment, but you only have to do it once.

Just my ideas. IMHO. YMMV. LSMFT

73 de Jim, N2EY


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[Gary D Krause]

Well, this is the setup that I have.  I have a quarter wave ground plane
vertical for 40 meters.  Not ground mounted, since a ground plane is more
efficient.  It is 33 feet tall and made of aluminum tubing.  I  have it on a
six foot pole because, of hight restrictions due to power lines.  It is
directly fed with coax and there are no traps or coils.  With a tuner I can
also work 30 and 17 meters.  I have a quarter wave ground plane vertical for
20 meters also.  The 40 meter antenna is great for pulling out weak signals on
20 since the background noise is lower due to the fact that 33 feet is a half
wave on 20 meters.  Many times I have switched to the 40 meter antenna when
working on the 20 meter antenna just to pull weak signals out of the noise.
 So, I can cover those bands with this setup.  I could also work 15 meters on
the 40 meter vertical put the angle of radiation would be high.  I just worked
Russia the other night on 20 meters.  I was running my K2 with 15 watts on CW.

I made these antennas from old tubing I had laying around and also from a GAP
Challenger that came down in the wind earlier this year after one of the guys
broke.  We get a lot of wind here in Wyoming. :-)

Gary, N7HTS


On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 05:57:34 -0700
  "Darwin, Keith" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> If a person wants to work DX on a shoe string which band should they
> focus on?  I'm assuming it is cheaper to pick one or two bands rather
> than to try to be a big gun on all of them.  Yea, I know you can work DX
> on just about anything but that isn't the point.  The question is which
> band allows you to get the most bang for the buck.  
>
> - 40 meters.  A vert of 1/4 to 3/8 wave makes you very competitive on
> this band.  A dipole at 1/2 wave high is tough to do.  A Yagi is even
> tougher.  The tall vertical is relatively easy and cheap while providing
> a better low angle signal than a low horizontal antenna.
>
> - 30 meters.  Again.  3/8 vertical.  The power limit on 30 makes for a
> more level playing field.
>
> - 15 meters.  Antenna sizes and heights are manageable.  Here a
> mono-band yagi on a 25' pole will work well at a moderate cost.
>
> Those are my thoughts.  What are yours?
>
> - Keith N1AS -
> - K2 5411.ssb.100 -
>
>
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[JT Croteau]

I too would like to know why 20M wasn't considered by the OP.  20M is
a great, easy, and cheap band to get on and make lots of DX contacts
especially during a contest weekend. A simple halfwave dipole can be
constructed for a very low cost, sometimes free if you scrounge, and
work well at 30 to 35'. Most people frown upon contests every weekend
but get on the air during a contest and you'll have DXCC in no time
flat.

--
JT Croteau, N1ESE - Manchester, NH (FN42gx)
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[Joe Hetrick-2]

On Sep 28, 2007, at 9:38 AM, JT Croteau wrote:

> I too would like to know why 20M wasn't considered by the OP.  20M is
> a great, easy, and cheap band to get on and make lots of DX contacts
> especially during a contest weekend. A simple halfwave dipole can be
> constructed for a very low cost, sometimes free if you scrounge, and
> work well at 30 to 35'. Most people frown upon contests every weekend
> but get on the air during a contest and you'll have DXCC in no time
> flat.

The only reason I can think of why 20 would be difficult would be  
operating times.  Eg; my personal schedule is such that I'm  
frequently operating well after folks have moved off 20 or 20 has  
closed.

I agree with N1ESE, though, if I could have one antenna, it'd be on  
20, assuming I had lost my job or retired ;).  The only beam I've got  
is a moxon rectangle for 20m, because it's active; the rectangle was  
easy to construct, and I can get it in the air myself for contest  
weekends.

Because of my own operating schedule, I find myself on 30 or 40M most  
evenings; thats just the way it works out.

My 20m work is mostly via a half-square.  Easily constructed, and  
effective DX antenna for 20.  40 I operate with a fiberglass pole-
supported 1/4wl vertical.  The pattern gets a bit useless for 15m,  
but, tuned I operate most bands with this antenna.  A plan is to  
shorten it and build a base mounted matching system.  Being shorter  
should help with the 15m pattern.

One could argue bang for your buck being a tuner and an effective low-
angle radiating antenna.

Joe, KC0VKN

>
> --
> JT Croteau, N1ESE - Manchester, NH (FN42gx)
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[Darwin, Keith]

-----Original Message-----
I too would like to know why 20M wasn't considered by the OP.
------------------------

I left 20 off the list because of the level of competition.  20 Is a
GREAT band for DX and everyone knows it.  All the serious DXers are on
that band with their big systems.  It is often tough for the little guy
to compete, esp. on SSB.

There is also some question as to whether or not my friend can get a
horizontal antenna more than about 20 feet off the ground.


- Keith N1AS -
- K2 5411.ssb.100 -

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[Dan Romanchik KB6NU]

While it's in general true that higher is better, you can certainly  
work DX with an antenna that's not up all that high. My 40m dipole is  
only about 20-25 feet up, but I work lots of DX with it. I work  
Europe regularly, and this week I worked the 3B7C DXpedition and  
TG9ADM in Guatemala. I keep thinking about trying to get it up  
higher, but then wonder if I should mess with a good thing.

73!

Dan KB6NU
----------------------------------------------------------
CW Geek and MI Affiliated Club Coordinator
Get my Tech and General Class study guides at www.kb6nu.com/tech-manual
LET'S GET MORE KIDS INTO HAM RADIO!



On Sep 28, 2007, at 11:03 AM, Darwin, Keith wrote:

> There is also some question as to whether or not my friend can get a
> horizontal antenna more than about 20 feet off the ground.
>




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[Clark B. Wierda]

Just a note for consideration:

Most of my DX has come while using a 7' monoband whip on my car.  From the
car, I've worked 66 DXCC so far including Peter I Island.  This was all
SSB using 100W.

This is just to show that you don't have to have the best signal on the
band to work DX.

73,
--
Clark B. Wierda
N8CBW


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[Jeff Kinzli N6GQ]

While it's true that 20M is more competitive than other bands, it's
also true that 20M will allow you to have more of a DX window for more
hours of the day/night, and there's a better chance of finding DX on
20M than any other band, IMHO.

Just looking at QSO totals for most expeditions, QSO totals are almost
highest on 20M. In fact, most expeditions have 20M as the one station
that's in operation almost 24x7. While conditions may not always allow
you to hear/work them 24x7, I think you've got a much bigger window
and chance on 20M than any other band.

For 20M, a small 3L yagi at 30 feet would do well, or a pair of phased
verticals, or any number of other options would work well there.

I'd put 40M as a close second...if you've got extra class CW
privileges. Many folks worked the 3B7C expedition on 40M with minimal
gear, and they were LOUD on 40M even on less-than-optimal paths/times.

Best of luck, see you in the pileups,

Jeff N6GQ
K2/100 S/N 05945

On 9/28/07, Darwin, Keith <[hidden email]> wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> I too would like to know why 20M wasn't considered by the OP.
> ------------------------
>
> I left 20 off the list because of the level of competition.  20 Is a
> GREAT band for DX and everyone knows it.  All the serious DXers are on
> that band with their big systems.  It is often tough for the little guy
> to compete, esp. on SSB.
>
> There is also some question as to whether or not my friend can get a
> horizontal antenna more than about 20 feet off the ground.
>
>
> - Keith N1AS -
> - K2 5411.ssb.100 -
>
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[JT Croteau]

I wish I still had my 5/8-wave 20M vertical, it was about 39' tall if
memory serves.  That was a great antenna for DX work on 20.

--
JT Croteau, N1ESE - Manchester, NH (FN42gx)
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[Jim Brown-10]

On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 05:57:34 -0700, Darwin, Keith wrote:

>Those are my thoughts.  What are yours?

The best band for DXing is the one on which you can put up the
most effective antennas compared to other hams who want to work
that DX. 30M is a very nice band because of the 200W power
limitation in many parts of the world, and the ease of putting up
a decent antenna.

40M is also a nice DX band, again because antennas are easy and
fewer big guns have beams. 80M is a nice band for DX if your QTH
allows a relatively high dipole or a vertical with radials. 160M
is tougher, because propagation is often just good enough for a
QSO with high power to get over the noise, and because big
antennas are required. I've done quite well with a 70 ft top-
loaded vertical with radials on 160, but I need to use the KW amp
to much DX.

The problem for a little pistol on 20M and 15M is competition from
guys with lots of aluminum. 17M is a nice DX band because it's
less crowded.

As to which antennas are best -- that will depend a lot on your
QTH. At mine, a ground-mounted vertical on 30 or 40 is a waste of
time, but it's great on 80 and 160. But I've got tall trees that
let me get dipoles up high, and they work great. Which antenna
works best will also depend on band conditions. There are times
that a high angle will get DX that a low angle will miss, and vice
versa.

73,

Jim K9YC




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[dave.wilburn]

I guess it depends on when 20m closes too.  During FD, the local club
was already down on 80m, it was 9 or 10PM local here on the east coast.
  I came back home and worked 20m up till midnight.  Nothing fancy, at
the time it was an 80m wire loop, fed with ladder line.

David Wilburn
[hidden email]
K4DGW
K2 #5982
FP#-1751


Joe Hetrick wrote:

>
> On Sep 28, 2007, at 9:38 AM, JT Croteau wrote:
>
>> I too would like to know why 20M wasn't considered by the OP.  20M is
>> a great, easy, and cheap band to get on and make lots of DX contacts
>> especially during a contest weekend. A simple halfwave dipole can be
>> constructed for a very low cost, sometimes free if you scrounge, and
>> work well at 30 to 35'. Most people frown upon contests every weekend
>> but get on the air during a contest and you'll have DXCC in no time
>> flat.
>
> The only reason I can think of why 20 would be difficult would be
> operating times.  Eg; my personal schedule is such that I'm frequently
> operating well after folks have moved off 20 or 20 has closed.
>
> I agree with N1ESE, though, if I could have one antenna, it'd be on 20,
> assuming I had lost my job or retired ;).  The only beam I've got is a
> moxon rectangle for 20m, because it's active; the rectangle was easy to
> construct, and I can get it in the air myself for contest weekends.
>
> Because of my own operating schedule, I find myself on 30 or 40M most
> evenings; thats just the way it works out.
>
> My 20m work is mostly via a half-square.  Easily constructed, and
> effective DX antenna for 20.  40 I operate with a fiberglass
> pole-supported 1/4wl vertical.  The pattern gets a bit useless for 15m,
> but, tuned I operate most bands with this antenna.  A plan is to shorten
> it and build a base mounted matching system.  Being shorter should help
> with the 15m pattern.
>
> One could argue bang for your buck being a tuner and an effective
> low-angle radiating antenna.
>
> Joe, KC0VKN
>
>>
>> --
>> JT Croteau, N1ESE - Manchester, NH (FN42gx)
>> _______________________________________________
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>
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[Darwin, Keith]

I ran a 5/8 vert on 15 for a few years.  At the same time I had a 1/4
wave GP for 15 on the roof.  I did many A/B comparisons and shockingly
found they were about the same on DX.  I always wondered why.

Years later, while reading the Low Band DXing book I got my answer.
Turns out the taller verticals are much more dependent on ground
conductivity in the far field.  If your ground conductivity is not
great, you actually do better with 1/4 wave over many radials than with
5/8 wave over many radials.

My current vert is 32' tall but I've varied the height.  At 24' it gave
stronger signals on 20 meters than it does at 32'.  Of course, at 32'
tall it works better on 40 and 80 so I leave it there for now.

These days I consider 3/8 wave the optimal height for a vertical over
average ground.  If I ever win the lottery, I'll move to an ocean side
QTH and put a 5/8 wave vert on the beach and will CRUSH the competition
:-)

- Keith N1AS -
- K2 5411.ssb.100 -
- K3 wave 3 -

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of JT Croteau

I wish I still had my 5/8-wave 20M vertical, it was about 39' tall if
memory serves.  That was a great antenna for DX work on 20.
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[Darwin, Keith]

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim Brown

The best band for DXing is the one on which you can put up the most
effective antennas compared to other hams who want to work that DX. 30M
is a very nice band because of the 200W power limitation in many parts
of the world, and the ease of putting up a decent antenna.

--------------------

Ah Jim, YES, you've understood my question.  Many of the great answers
so-far have been which bands one CAN work DX on.  I'm interested in the
band that allows me (or by friend) to be a contender, not an also-ran,
for low cost.  I'm CW and he's SSB.  I'm lucky that I have 40 and 30.

- Keith N1AS -
- K2 5411.ssb.100 -
- K3 wave 3 -
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[Vic K2VCO]

Darwin, Keith wrote:

> If a person wants to work DX on a shoe string which band should they
> focus on?  

...and you've added that he prefers SSB and may not be able to put up a
horizontal antenna more than 20' above ground. I suppose he wants to do
it with QRP, too? Keep in mind that the sunspot cycle is at its low
point now.

He is not going to work a lot of HF DX in the traditional sense today.
There is a reason that DXers have beams on expensive towers, and it's
not all ego. There is a reason that QRPers like CW.

He might try 6 meter e-skip, where -- at least in the summer -- he can
have fun trying to work grid squares. It isn't traditional DX, but DX is
relative. He can do this with a homemade yagi at 20 feet, turned by a TV
rotor or by hand. When the cycle improves, he can work 'DX' in the
winter, too, by f-layer propagation.

OK, back to HF and DXCC-type DX. Any horizontal antenna at 20 feet will
be horrible. A vertical's performance will depend where he lives. If he
lives near saltwater or on a farm, or near Dallas TX where the ground is
relatively conductive, a vertical won't be too bad. If he lives in a
built-up area, it will be less good. He will need a radial system (much
has been said about the various approaches to doing this), but a
vertical's performance is also dependent on ground characteristics in
the "Fresnel zone" which is a few wavelengths away from the antenna and
over which you have little control.

The best band to work DX on with low power is the highest frequency one
that is open. I suggest 40 meters and up, if he can put up an efficient
40-meter vertical (this means NOT a multiband trap vertical) with a
decent ground system. If not, he will have to use the higher bands.

Today it will be a struggle. As the cycle improves, he will find that he
can work more DX on the higher bands. When 10 is open, he will be able
to make worldwide QSOs with low power, a simple antenna, and SSB.
--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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[AC7AC]

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This is a hard question to answer because it takes in so many variables.  I have not read much of the discussion here because I want to give readers an untainted view of my answer.

You have to take in account....

Sunspots
Time of Day
Seasons of the Year (Earth's Tilt)
MUF or Maximum Usable Frequency
Knowing the Amateur Radio Band characteristics depending on the above
Is any one transmitting or is there assumption that the band is dead?

This is Ham Radio 102.  It is all in the Handbook and on the web.  So, the answer to this question is....get on the air and find out.  Read a book.  Read an article.  Read the Handbook.  Experience it.  Call CQ DX on some band.

Of course in 5 to 7 years, this will be a moot point since the Sunspots will be back (I Hope) and 10 meters will be open as well as 15 and 20 - 24 hours a day.

For now....30/40 is the best bands now....but then you got them blasted Broadcast Stations on 40 SSB.  Very little interference on 40 CW..  80 meters has good propagation, but there could be thunderstorms and such and then that band is not very good.  But on a clear night....late in the evening and early in the Morning....DX can be worked on 80 SSB and CW  So, right now.....I would give this piece of advice....

Wait till the bands are better....learn CW and join the FUN!....go to two meters and rag chew locally...try RTTY or PSK31.

CW os a great DX mode.  Long live CW and the guys who love it.

Lee - K0WA



In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply.  If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it.  If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense.  Is Common Sense divine?
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[AC7AC]

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[Jay Schwisow]

Keith,

Right now at sunspot minimum I would say 20or 17meters.  40m at night
but operating split.  80m and 160m follow if antennas allow.  Once the
solar flux climbs up around 90 you will see some nice propagation on 15
meters.

Have a look at the SSB dx contests.  October is one of the busiest
months of the year.  The  big one is CQWW DX 10/27 (all weekend).  
Contest weekends tend to open up the bands when they seem closed. He
could probably earn DXCC in one weekend of CQWW.   If his station is
modest encourage him to wait until Sunday to work the more exotic DX.  
The pileups will be down and it will be easier for him to get through -
assuming propagation.

One more note...small antennas including a simple dipole at 20feet can
and will work.  If this is all Bob can put up then fine.  Sure I
recommend a big yagi but for many this cannot be done.    Note that in
many cases the guy on the other end will do the heavy lifting..

Here is a complete calendar of contests:

http://www.hornucopia.com/contestcal/contestcal.html

Jay - KT5E

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[N2EY]

In a message dated 9/28/07 12:15:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[hidden email] writes:


> I'm interested in the
> band that allows me (or by friend) to be a contender, not an also-ran,
> for low cost.  I'm CW and he's SSB.  I'm lucky that I have 40 and 30.
>

The question is, how do you define "contender" and "also-ran"? If you mean
being able to work almost as many DX stations as the Big Boys, that's
possible - it just takes more time.

But if you mean you want to beat them, or come close, without their hardware,
sorry, that's not how it works.

A lot can be done with a modest station, particularly when conditions are
good and the ham on the other end has a decent setup. But conditions aren't
always good and the ham on the other end doesn't always have a decent setup. That's
the difference.

AC7AC is right; if you want to compete in a Formula 1 race, you need a
Formula 1 car. My old 1980 VW Rabbit Diesel and its 11 gallon tank could do the Indy
500 without a pit stop - in 8 hours and change.

What I thought you were asking is how to get the most DX performance out of a
limited space and money budget. That can be done, and it's a fun quest to see
how
close you can come to the Big Guns.

73 de Jim, N2EY




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