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Blown trap?

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Vic Rosenthal

Blown trap?

Here is my somewhat off-topic question for today:

I have an R8 vertical, which does its bandswitching with a combination
of stubs and traps. The other day I was transmitting CW on 40M with
about 1200 watts and a normal SWR of less than 1.5:1. Suddenly the SWR
went sky-high. Now the antenna doesn't work on 7 and 10 MHz, although it
is fine on the higher bands. It looks to me like I blew the 30M trap. So:

1. Do you folks think this is a correct diagnosis? I will have to take
the antenna down to be sure, and that won't be fun since it is on top of
a 10-story building.

2. I have heard of this happening with the R8, although it is rated at
1500W CW according to the manual. But I always thought the people it
happened to were operating at high SWRs. Maybe these are 1500 MFJ watts,
which, as everyone knows, are smaller than regular watts. Has anyone had
a similar experience?

3. Should I have bought a KPA500 which wouldn't stress the antenna as
much? :-)
--
73,
Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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NK7Z

Re: Blown trap?

Hi,

No matter what happens, you will probably end up taking the antenna
down... If nothing else to check to be sure it is fine...

Grab an analyzer and connect it as close to the antenna base as
possible, and see if it is resonant on all bands... Probably won't
anymore. If you are lucky, it is some strange feedline thing, or a
connector issue, but having the antenna work on some bands, while not on
others reeks of blown trap. I fear your diagnosis is in fact
correct...

If you are going to "fix" it, and if it were me, I would get a trapless
antenna of some sort... No traps blow. I currently use a GAP
Challenger DX, (trapless), and have a band by band review of it at:
http://nk7z.net/review-of-the-challenger-dx-antenna-by-gap-antenna/

The antenna takes power, and does not break, I have run 1000 Watts into
it on RTTY for 15 minutes with no issues. I have had it up for at least
7 years, and I think 10 or more years. Never a problem beyond the three
radials coming off once... It is a pretty good performer on 40, and 20.
I finally got one of the mono gaps, and it does a good job. I do take
it down every few years and check things, and change out anything that
looks like it is going bad.

--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
for Dopplergram information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
for MM-SSTV see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info

On Mon, 2014-12-15 at 12:17 +0200, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote:

> Here is my somewhat off-topic question for today:
>
> I have an R8 vertical, which does its bandswitching with a combination
> of stubs and traps. The other day I was transmitting CW on 40M with
> about 1200 watts and a normal SWR of less than 1.5:1. Suddenly the SWR
> went sky-high. Now the antenna doesn't work on 7 and 10 MHz, although it
> is fine on the higher bands. It looks to me like I blew the 30M trap. So:
>
> 1. Do you folks think this is a correct diagnosis? I will have to take
> the antenna down to be sure, and that won't be fun since it is on top of
> a 10-story building.
>
> 2. I have heard of this happening with the R8, although it is rated at
> 1500W CW according to the manual. But I always thought the people it
> happened to were operating at high SWRs. Maybe these are 1500 MFJ watts,
> which, as everyone knows, are smaller than regular watts. Has anyone had
> a similar experience?
>
> 3. Should I have bought a KPA500 which wouldn't stress the antenna as
> much? :-)

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Vic Rosenthal

Re: Blown trap?

The good news is that I called MFJ, got a technician immediately, he
agreed that the 30M trap is the problem, and said he would send me a new
one under warranty. Elecraft-style service (so far).

The bad news is that despite the statement in the manual that it is
rated at "1500W CW," he told me not to exceed 800-1000 watts. Not
Elecraft-style design/documentation!

So if you have an R8 or similar antenna, be warned. I wasn't tuning up
or running RTTY -- I was calling CQ on 40M running about 1200W.

Other bands are unchanged but 30 and 40M are gone.

Thanks to everyone that responded.

On 15 Dec 2014 15:07, David Cole wrote:

> Hi,
>
> No matter what happens, you will probably end up taking the antenna
> down... If nothing else to check to be sure it is fine...
>
> Grab an analyzer and connect it as close to the antenna base as
> possible, and see if it is resonant on all bands... Probably won't
> anymore. If you are lucky, it is some strange feedline thing, or a
> connector issue, but having the antenna work on some bands, while not on
> others reeks of blown trap. I fear your diagnosis is in fact
> correct...
>
> If you are going to "fix" it, and if it were me, I would get a trapless
> antenna of some sort... No traps blow. I currently use a GAP
> Challenger DX, (trapless), and have a band by band review of it at:
> http://nk7z.net/review-of-the-challenger-dx-antenna-by-gap-antenna/
>
> The antenna takes power, and does not break, I have run 1000 Watts into
> it on RTTY for 15 minutes with no issues. I have had it up for at least
> 7 years, and I think 10 or more years. Never a problem beyond the three
> radials coming off once... It is a pretty good performer on 40, and 20.
> I finally got one of the mono gaps, and it does a good job. I do take
> it down every few years and check things, and change out anything that
> looks like it is going bad.

--
73,
Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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Phil Wheeler-2

Re: Blown trap?

MFJ has a technician? Pretty amazing, Vic :-)

Phil W7OX

On 12/15/14 9:28 AM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote:

> The good news is that I called MFJ, got a
> technician immediately, he agreed that the 30M
> trap is the problem, and said he would send me a
> new one under warranty. Elecraft-style service
> (so far).
>
> The bad news is that despite the statement in
> the manual that it is rated at "1500W CW," he
> told me not to exceed 800-1000 watts. Not
> Elecraft-style design/documentation!
>
> So if you have an R8 or similar antenna, be
> warned. I wasn't tuning up or running RTTY -- I
> was calling CQ on 40M running about 1200W.
>
> Other bands are unchanged but 30 and 40M are gone.
>
> Thanks to everyone that responded.
>
> On 15 Dec 2014 15:07, David Cole wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> No matter what happens, you will probably end
>> up taking the antenna
>> down... If nothing else to check to be sure it
>> is fine...
>>
>> Grab an analyzer and connect it as close to the
>> antenna base as
>> possible, and see if it is resonant on all
>> bands... Probably won't
>> anymore. If you are lucky, it is some strange
>> feedline thing, or a
>> connector issue, but having the antenna work on
>> some bands, while not on
>> others reeks of blown trap. I fear your
>> diagnosis is in fact
>> correct...
>>
>> If you are going to "fix" it, and if it were
>> me, I would get a trapless
>> antenna of some sort... No traps blow. I
>> currently use a GAP
>> Challenger DX, (trapless), and have a band by
>> band review of it at:
>> http://nk7z.net/review-of-the-challenger-dx-antenna-by-gap-antenna/
>>
>>
>> The antenna takes power, and does not break, I
>> have run 1000 Watts into
>> it on RTTY for 15 minutes with no issues. I
>> have had it up for at least
>> 7 years, and I think 10 or more years. Never a
>> problem beyond the three
>> radials coming off once... It is a pretty good
>> performer on 40, and 20.
>> I finally got one of the mono gaps, and it does
>> a good job. I do take
>> it down every few years and check things, and
>> change out anything that
>> looks like it is going bad.
>
>

Jim Brown-10

Re: Blown trap?

In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal

On Mon,12/15/2014 2:17 AM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote:
> I have heard of this happening with the R8, although it is rated at
> 1500W CW according to the manual. But I always thought the people it
> happened to were operating at high SWRs. Maybe these are 1500 MFJ
> watts, which, as everyone knows, are smaller than regular watts. Has
> anyone had a similar experience?

Hi Vic,

It might be worth asking this question on the Tower Talk reflector.

73, Jim K9YC
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Phil Wheeler-2

Re: Blown trap?

In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal

So how painful will it be to lower the antenna and
repair it, Vic? And what is the ETA for the trap
to arrive at your QTH?

Phil W7OX

On 12/15/14 9:28 AM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote:

Bill Steffey NY9H

Re: Blown trap?

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

maybe the brilliant designer thought he could build the 30 meter trap
to the power level allowed on 30 meters ;) ?????

oooops

At 01:49 PM 12/15/2014, Jim Brown wrote:

>On Mon,12/15/2014 2:17 AM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote:
>>I have heard of this happening with the R8, although it is rated at
>>1500W CW according to the manual. But I always thought the people
>>it happened to were operating at high SWRs. Maybe these are 1500
>>MFJ watts, which, as everyone knows, are smaller than regular
>>watts. Has anyone had a similar experience?
>
>Hi Vic,
>
>It might be worth asking this question on the Tower Talk reflector.
>
>73, Jim K9YC
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>Message delivered to [hidden email]

Vic Rosenthal

Re: Blown trap?

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

The manual on the MFJ website now specifies that the antenna can handle
1500 watts SSB without compression, 750 watts CW, and 500 watts RTTY.

The manual that came with my antenna (purchased this March) simply said
1500 watts CW. It also had the pre-MFJ address for Cushcraft. When I was
considering what antenna to buy last December I downloaded the manual.
That one was also the old version.

So apparently they only recently updated the manual.

Too bad -- I would have made a different choice if I'd known.

On 15 Dec 2014 20:49, Jim Brown wrote:

NK7Z

Re: Blown trap?

In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal

Hi Vic,

That is not surprising to me for reasons later discussed here... When
something is rated at "1500 Watts, CW", that really means, 300 watts to
500 watts DC, or 100% duty cycle... I wish manufactures would rate
things at 100% duty cycle. I am pretty sure Elecraft does.

CW is taken to be about a 20% duty cycle, (for the most part), and as
such you can hammer something much harder when running CW than say when
you are running RTTY at 100% duty cycle... That is how the 300 watt
figure came about, r=.20*1500, where r is the rating for power.

I tend to de-rate everything 60% to 85% when I run RTTY, PSK, or any
mode that is even close to 100% duty cycle, more on the 75% side of
things.

I would bet that 1000 watts RTTY for 10 minutes would blow another
trap... I really dislike trap antennas for this reason, and these
reasons-- a bug gets into a trap, and you have a fire, water gets into a
trap, and you have a fire, a leaf falls on a trap, and you have a trap
fire, etc. You get the picture... Pretty much everything ends in "trap
fire".

Next time try and get an antenna with no traps if possible. I realize
you have the R8 now, and will keep it, but in the future, never forget
the lesson the MFJ antenna just taught you! I learned my de-rating
lesson in a similar way several decades ago, running RTTY, I have NEVER
forgotten it. If you have an antenna in a hard to get to location,
overbuild everything.

I had been considering an R8 up to now-- but the little experiment you
just performed, just convinced me to avoid that antenna.

--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
for Dopplergram information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
for MM-SSTV see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info

On Mon, 2014-12-15 at 19:28 +0200, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote:

> The good news is that I called MFJ, got a technician immediately, he
> agreed that the 30M trap is the problem, and said he would send me a new
> one under warranty. Elecraft-style service (so far).
>
> The bad news is that despite the statement in the manual that it is
> rated at "1500W CW," he told me not to exceed 800-1000 watts. Not
> Elecraft-style design/documentation!
>
> So if you have an R8 or similar antenna, be warned. I wasn't tuning up
> or running RTTY -- I was calling CQ on 40M running about 1200W.
>
> Other bands are unchanged but 30 and 40M are gone.
>
> Thanks to everyone that responded.
>
> On 15 Dec 2014 15:07, David Cole wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > No matter what happens, you will probably end up taking the antenna
> > down... If nothing else to check to be sure it is fine...
> >
> > Grab an analyzer and connect it as close to the antenna base as
> > possible, and see if it is resonant on all bands... Probably won't
> > anymore. If you are lucky, it is some strange feedline thing, or a
> > connector issue, but having the antenna work on some bands, while not on
> > others reeks of blown trap. I fear your diagnosis is in fact
> > correct...
> >
> > If you are going to "fix" it, and if it were me, I would get a trapless
> > antenna of some sort... No traps blow. I currently use a GAP
> > Challenger DX, (trapless), and have a band by band review of it at:
> > http://nk7z.net/review-of-the-challenger-dx-antenna-by-gap-antenna/
> >
> > The antenna takes power, and does not break, I have run 1000 Watts into
> > it on RTTY for 15 minutes with no issues. I have had it up for at least
> > 7 years, and I think 10 or more years. Never a problem beyond the three
> > radials coming off once... It is a pretty good performer on 40, and 20.
> > I finally got one of the mono gaps, and it does a good job. I do take
> > it down every few years and check things, and change out anything that
> > looks like it is going bad.
>
>

Jim Brown-10

Re: Blown trap?

In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal

On Mon,12/15/2014 11:32 AM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote:
> The manual on the MFJ website now specifies that the antenna can
> handle 1500 watts SSB without compression, 750 watts CW, and 500 watts
> RTTY.

One might suspect that MFJ did some "cost engineering" on the original
Cushcraft design.

Wouldn't be the first time.

73, Jim K9YC

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NK7Z

Re: Blown trap?

"cost engineering"

Jim you are a gentlemen...
--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
for Dopplergram information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
for MM-SSTV see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info

On Mon, 2014-12-15 at 16:00 -0800, Jim Brown wrote:

> On Mon,12/15/2014 11:32 AM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote:
> > The manual on the MFJ website now specifies that the antenna can
> > handle 1500 watts SSB without compression, 750 watts CW, and 500 watts
> > RTTY.
>
> One might suspect that MFJ did some "cost engineering" on the original
> Cushcraft design.
>
> Wouldn't be the first time.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
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Elecraft mailing list

Re: Blown trap?

In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal

I had a similar problem with a Cushcraft antenna. They also promised me
an immediate replacement. I waited, sent email, waited, sent email,
called - left message, finally after about 2 months I received the
replacement parts.

So, hold off judgement on their service until you have parts in hand. I
also had a new but defective 259C analyzer. Sent it in for "No Matter
What" warranty. It took 65 days to get it back. I could go on.

Many people have shared their MFJ experiences in the past. MFJ is
always a good news/bad news company. Many interesting products, but
consistently falling short on quality and service.

I'm glad Cushcraft was bought rather than allowed to go under - just
like Hy-Gain. But, I am always suspicious of any of their products.

73, Doug -- K0DXV

On 12/15/2014 10:28 AM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote:

> The good news is that I called MFJ, got a technician immediately, he
> agreed that the 30M trap is the problem, and said he would send me a
> new one under warranty. Elecraft-style service (so far).
>
> The bad news is that despite the statement in the manual that it is
> rated at "1500W CW," he told me not to exceed 800-1000 watts. Not
> Elecraft-style design/documentation!
>
> So if you have an R8 or similar antenna, be warned. I wasn't tuning up
> or running RTTY -- I was calling CQ on 40M running about 1200W.
>
> Other bands are unchanged but 30 and 40M are gone.
>
> Thanks to everyone that responded.
>
> On 15 Dec 2014 15:07, David Cole wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> No matter what happens, you will probably end up taking the antenna
>> down... If nothing else to check to be sure it is fine...
>>
>> Grab an analyzer and connect it as close to the antenna base as
>> possible, and see if it is resonant on all bands... Probably won't
>> anymore. If you are lucky, it is some strange feedline thing, or a
>> connector issue, but having the antenna work on some bands, while not on
>> others reeks of blown trap. I fear your diagnosis is in fact
>> correct...
>>
>> If you are going to "fix" it, and if it were me, I would get a trapless
>> antenna of some sort... No traps blow. I currently use a GAP
>> Challenger DX, (trapless), and have a band by band review of it at:
>> http://nk7z.net/review-of-the-challenger-dx-antenna-by-gap-antenna/
>>
>> The antenna takes power, and does not break, I have run 1000 Watts into
>> it on RTTY for 15 minutes with no issues. I have had it up for at least
>> 7 years, and I think 10 or more years. Never a problem beyond the three
>> radials coming off once... It is a pretty good performer on 40, and 20.
>> I finally got one of the mono gaps, and it does a good job. I do take
>> it down every few years and check things, and change out anything that
>> looks like it is going bad.
>
>

Jim Brown-10

Re: Blown trap?

On Mon,12/15/2014 5:41 PM, Doug Person via Elecraft wrote:
> MFJ is always a good news/bad news company.

IMO the only good news about the MFJ companies is the same as the most
common bad news -- CHEAP. Cheap construction, poor or non-existent
quality control, poor support. I consider them a very poor corporate
citizen, because their low prices push better products from better
companies out of the market. Little difference from what WalMart has
done to "main street" businesses.

73, Jim K9YC
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Dave-7

Re: Blown trap?

I see nothing wrong with MFJ. They serve the market reasonably well,
if they did not they would soon be out of business. If MFJ was
actually as bad as some of the posts you read, they would be out of
business rather soon. But they keep humming along.

Lets face it, hams are cheap. They like cheap stuff, even if it has a
few warts.

If MFJ raised their quality, and, of course, prices, accordingly (as
they would have to), you know what would happen? Another company would
soon spring up that looks a whole lot like the current incarnation of
MFJ. Why? Well, because hams are cheap. They buy cheap stuff. Warts
and all.

I have had problems with some of the MFJ stuff I have bought. I have
gotten reasonable service when I called or sent a message. Not super
fast service, but commensurate with the price paid. What else is
reasonable to expect?

73 de dave
ab9ca/4

On 12/15/14 7:54 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On Mon,12/15/2014 5:41 PM, Doug Person via Elecraft wrote:
>> MFJ is always a good news/bad news company.
>
> IMO the only good news about the MFJ companies is the same as the most
> common bad news -- CHEAP. Cheap construction, poor or non-existent
> quality control, poor support. I consider them a very poor corporate
> citizen, because their low prices push better products from better
> companies out of the market. Little difference from what WalMart has
> done to "main street" businesses.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Rick WA6NHC

Re: Blown trap?

In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal

Water intrusion?

73,
Rick wa6nhc

Tiny iPhone 5 keypad, typos are inevitable

> On Dec 15, 2014, at 9:28 AM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The good news is that I called MFJ, got a technician immediately, he agreed that the 30M trap is the problem, and said he would send me a new one under warranty. Elecraft-style service (so far).
>
> The bad news is that despite the statement in the manual that it is rated at "1500W CW," he told me not to exceed 800-1000 watts. Not Elecraft-style design/documentation!
>
> So if you have an R8 or similar antenna, be warned. I wasn't tuning up or running RTTY -- I was calling CQ on 40M running about 1200W.
>
> Other bands are unchanged but 30 and 40M are gone.
>
> Thanks to everyone that responded.
>
>> On 15 Dec 2014 15:07, David Cole wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> No matter what happens, you will probably end up taking the antenna
>> down... If nothing else to check to be sure it is fine...
>>
>> Grab an analyzer and connect it as close to the antenna base as
>> possible, and see if it is resonant on all bands... Probably won't
>> anymore. If you are lucky, it is some strange feedline thing, or a
>> connector issue, but having the antenna work on some bands, while not on
>> others reeks of blown trap. I fear your diagnosis is in fact
>> correct...
>>
>> If you are going to "fix" it, and if it were me, I would get a trapless
>> antenna of some sort... No traps blow. I currently use a GAP
>> Challenger DX, (trapless), and have a band by band review of it at:
>> http://nk7z.net/review-of-the-challenger-dx-antenna-by-gap-antenna/
>>
>> The antenna takes power, and does not break, I have run 1000 Watts into
>> it on RTTY for 15 minutes with no issues. I have had it up for at least
>> 7 years, and I think 10 or more years. Never a problem beyond the three
>> radials coming off once... It is a pretty good performer on 40, and 20.
>> I finally got one of the mono gaps, and it does a good job. I do take
>> it down every few years and check things, and change out anything that
>> looks like it is going bad.
>
>
> --
> 73,
> Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
> Rehovot, Israel
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Elecraft mailing list

Re: Blown trap?

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

A real world data point:

I recently ordered two MFJ 17 ft telescoping masts, which arrived today. Not exactly high tech. One of them was defective - a section that was jammed and would not come apart, along with an adjacent joint that felt way too loose.

HRO had me ship it back to them, and I'm sure they will replace it with a good one. But I've wasted $7 bucks to mail it back, plus time going to and waiting at the post office.

Fortunately I don't need it right away. But definitely a example of poor quality control.

73 - Jim K8MR

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
To: elecraft <[hidden email]>
Sent: Mon, Dec 15, 2014 8:59 pm
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Blown trap?

On Mon,12/15/2014 5:41 PM, Doug Person via Elecraft wrote:
> MFJ is always a good news/bad news company.

IMO the only good news about the MFJ companies is the same as the most
common bad news -- CHEAP. Cheap construction, poor or non-existent
quality control, poor support. I consider them a very poor corporate
citizen, because their low prices push better products from better
companies out of the market. Little difference from what WalMart has
done to "main street" businesses.

73, Jim K9YC
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Raymond Sills

Re: Blown trap?

HI Jim:

Sorry to hear about the QC issue. You'd think that HRO would have
looked at them to make sure that there were OK. Well, maybe they
were in a sealed package. As I see it, HRO should at least reimburse
you for your return postage... and then bill MFJ for that cost.

73 de Ray
K2ULR
KX3 #211

On Dec 15, 2014, at 11:22 PM, Jim Stahl via Elecraft wrote:

> A real world data point:
>
>
> I recently ordered two MFJ 17 ft telescoping masts, which arrived
> today. Not exactly high tech. One of them was defective - a section
> that was jammed and would not come apart, along with an adjacent
> joint that felt way too loose.
>
>
> HRO had me ship it back to them, and I'm sure they will replace it
> with a good one. But I've wasted $7 bucks to mail it back, plus time
> going to and waiting at the post office.
>
>
> Fortunately I don't need it right away. But definitely a example of
> poor quality control.
>
>
>
>
> 73 - Jim K8MR
>