CFL lamp noise
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I have a house / shack full of CFL lamps, with
absolutely no noise from them. Our homes can be infested with noise generators, from touch-lamps to washer / drier units, but CFL's are most likely -not- sources. In some circles CFL's and their supposed problems have risen to urban legend level. (;-) 73! Ken - K0PP http://timyurl.com/7lm3m5 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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> In some circles CFL's and their supposed problems
> have risen to urban legend level. (;-) Not everyone has the same antenna system or distance from potential noise sources, which could explain all the differing opinions. In my shack, where a fluorescent lamp is located only four feet from the rig, I recently switched from a 40 meter coax-fed dipole to a random wire with counterpoise directly into the K3, no coax. Lots of noise. Turn the switch off, noise goes away. Not a problem with coax-fed dipole. --Andrew, NV1B maineware.net .. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Ken G Kopp
Another thing to look at....cell phone chargers......
On 11/18/2012 1:13 PM, Ken G Kopp wrote: > I have a house / shack full of CFL lamps, with > absolutely no noise from them. > > Our homes can be infested with noise generators, > from touch-lamps to washer / drier units, but CFL's > are most likely -not- sources. > > In some circles CFL's and their supposed problems > have risen to urban legend level. (;-) > > 73! > > Ken - K0PP > http://timyurl.com/7lm3m5 > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > -- 73, Gary K9GS Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com CW Ops #1032 http://www.cwops.org ************************************************ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Andrew Moore-3
Are you talking about a CFL, or a conventional fluorescent lamp? Many newer fluorescent lamps come with an electronic ballast. These are sometimes a problem, in that the "ballast" operates like a switching power supply, and if not designed or built properly, can emit copious amounts of noise. A standard "old fashioned" magnetic ballast does not have this problem. If your lamp uses the newer electronic ballast, replacing the ballast with a magnetic type will fix the problem. BTW, I have used many many CFLs and never had even the slightest bit of RFI from any current production units. There was a small amount of noise from some of the very early units of 20 years ago. The last one of those I had was retired circa 1995. Most of the CFLs I have now are from Costco, and are FEIT brand, made in China. Nary a peep from them. We have about 35 CFLs in service now, and the 80-meter noise level is about S2 on a bad day, closer to S1 normally. (I live in a rural subdivision with underground power). 160 meter noise is about S3 to S4, and S0 for 40 meters and higher. - Jim KL7CC In my shack, where a fluorescent lamp is located only four feet from the rig, I recently switched from a 40 meter coax-fed dipole to a random wire with counterpoise directly into the K3, no coax. Lots of noise. Turn the switch off, noise goes away. Not a problem with coax-fed dipole. --Andrew, NV1B ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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My bad - I (too quickly) assumed this was about conventional fluorescents.
I'm almost certain all the fluorescents in the house are of the newer (electronic) ballast type. We do have plenty CFLs in the house too, including two about ten feet from the shack. Time for some testing. 73, --Andrew, NV1B maineware.net .. On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Jim Wiley <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Are you talking about a CFL, or a conventional fluorescent lamp? Many newer > fluorescent lamps come with an electronic ballast. These are sometimes a > problem, in that the "ballast" operates like a switching power supply, and > if not designed or built properly, can emit copious amounts of noise. A > standard "old fashioned" magnetic ballast does not have this problem. If > your lamp uses the newer electronic ballast, replacing the ballast with a > magnetic type will fix the problem. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Jim Wiley
Thanks for that info Jim. I will be installing some FL's in my garage.
I will check for RFI and get some magnetic ballasts if need be. Thats good to know. 73, Bob K6UJ On Nov 18, 2012, at 12:35 PM, Jim Wiley wrote: > > Are you talking about a CFL, or a conventional fluorescent lamp? Many > newer fluorescent lamps come with an electronic ballast. These are > sometimes a problem, in that the "ballast" operates like a switching > power supply, and if not designed or built properly, can emit copious > amounts of noise. A standard "old fashioned" magnetic ballast does not > have this problem. If your lamp uses the newer electronic ballast, > replacing the ballast with a magnetic type will fix the problem. > > > BTW, I have used many many CFLs and never had even the slightest bit of > RFI from any current production units. There was a small amount of > noise from some of the very early units of 20 years ago. The last one > of those I had was retired circa 1995. Most of the CFLs I have now are > from Costco, and are FEIT brand, made in China. Nary a peep from > them. We have about 35 CFLs in service now, and the 80-meter noise > level is about S2 on a bad day, closer to S1 normally. (I live in a > rural subdivision with underground power). 160 meter noise is about S3 > to S4, and S0 for 40 meters and higher. > > > - Jim KL7CC > > > In my shack, where a fluorescent lamp is located only four feet from the > rig, I recently switched from a 40 meter coax-fed dipole to a random > wire with counterpoise directly into the K3, no coax. Lots of noise. > Turn the switch off, noise goes away. Not a problem with coax-fed > dipole. --Andrew, NV1B > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Hi,
I have a house full of CFLs, too and no noise at all. I also have a number of fluorescent tube lamps. Most of these have conventional magnetic ballast but a few have electronic ballasts. No noise from either of them either. More recently I went out and bought two 60W (incandescent equivalent) LED lamps from 2 different manufacturers. Rumor has it that some of these are extremely noisy. But I have no noise from them either, much to my relief. I do have a recent noise problem that affect mostly 40m and vicinity. On the panadapter it shows as "humps" 10-15kHz wide and spaced about 40kHz apart. It sounds like a scratchy noise and it drifts slowly. Folks on the LP-Pan Yahoo forum have suggested it's a washer or drier, but who is washing and drying 24 hours a day? If it is a motor control, it must be some motor that is running more or less continuously. Unfortunately I have a difficult time arranging an antenna on the car with reasonable efficiency on 40m, so I haven't been able to sniff around the neighborhood. You can see it here: http://ab2tc.getmyip.com/grunge.png And hear it here: http://ab2tc.getmyip.com/grunge.mp3 Knut - AB2TC
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Re: CFL lamp noise (fluorescent ballasts)
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In reply to this post by Jim Wiley
Yes, I have some issues with electronic ballasts too. I was bummed by
the amount of audible hum from the conventional ballasts in my four kitchen ceiling fixtures. As an experiment I replaced the ballasts in two of them with Phillips electronic units. I listened on AM on 160 meters and also higher up in HF and heard no noise so I pronounced myself satisfied. Later I discovered that those ballasts are putting out tremendous RFI on 6 meters and also make it impossible to hear anything on the FM broadcast band. So now they stay switched off most of the time. I've been meaning to try separate AC line filters in each fixture but haven't done it yet. 73- Nick, WA5BDU On 11/18/2012 2:35 PM, Jim Wiley wrote: > Are you talking about a CFL, or a conventional fluorescent lamp? Many > newer fluorescent lamps come with an electronic ballast. These are > sometimes a problem, in that the "ballast" operates like a switching > power supply, and if not designed or built properly, can emit copious > amounts of noise. A standard "old fashioned" magnetic ballast does not > have this problem. If your lamp uses the newer electronic ballast, > replacing the ballast with a magnetic type will fix the problem. > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by ab2tc
What you are hearing is almost certainly a "touch control" lamp dimmer.
Either in your home or nearby. If you do not have any of these devices, check around your neighbor's home (with their permission of course), starting with the electric meter. It will be fairly strong there if you have the right house. Your observation that it peaks on 40 meters is a typical artifact of resonances in the house wiring. The signals actually start in the 50 to 200 kHz range, depending on the controller, and have a "comb" of harmonics that diminish in strength and get wider in frequency as the order of the harmonic increases. Once you find the right house, if it is not your own, the issue can become more complex. There are good texts on the subject to be found on the Internet. Occasionally such noises come from other devices such as battery chargers for laptop computers and games, but the "drifts slowly up and down the band" is a tell-tale characteristic of lamp dimmer RFI. The controller can emit interference whether or not the lamp is on. It will exhibit sudden jumps in frequency when the lamp is turned on or off, or set to different levels of brightness. Occasionally the interference effect goes both ways - as you key your rig, the lamp will change state from off to on to various brightness levels. I got one neighbor to take his lamps out of service (they were in his living room) because when I keyed my KW rig on 40 meters, the lamps would go nuts. Quite distracting when trying to watch TV!. I discovered it because I could see his home from the shack, and made the correlation quickly. He was very grateful that I could tell him what was going on. I think he thought the lamps were possessed. He took them back to the store where he purchased them and got a refund. One way to check for this effect, even if you cannot see the lamps directly is to use a high a power as you can manage on various bands, then key just single "dits", listening to the interference each time. If you are causing the lamps to change state, you will hear jumps in the frequency of the interference. This may not always work, but it works often enough that it's worth a try. - Jim, KL7CC ab2tc wrote > > I do have a recent noise problem that affect mostly 40m and vicinity. On the > panadapter it shows as "humps" 10-15kHz wide and spaced about 40kHz apart. > It sounds like a scratchy noise and it drifts slowly. Folks on the LP-Pan > Yahoo forum have suggested it's a washer or drier, but who is washing and > drying 24 hours a day? If it is a motor control, it must be some motor that > is running more or less continuously. Unfortunately I have a difficult time > arranging an antenna on the car with reasonable efficiency on 40m, so I > haven't been able to sniff around the neighborhood. > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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On 11/20/2012 4:56 AM, Jim Wiley wrote:
> What you are hearing is almost certainly a "touch control" lamp dimmer. Possibly other sources as well. I'm a member of the crew that activates Alpine County [N6A] for the Cal QSO Party in early Oct. Our long time camp was a couple of km off the highway at the summit of Monitor Pass, no power lines for miles, and our base noise level was S0. Station was on 10m CW, and suddenly the noise went to S5 and looked exactly like the screen shot on the band scope, slowly drifting up and then down. Checking 15 and 20, the noise was barely perceptible. Turned out Larry had just plugged in his electric shaver to charge it, and the cord was close to 8 ft long. :-) 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2013 Cal QSO Party 5-6 Oct 2013 - www.cqp.org ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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