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Mike K4PI

CODEC

I have used for years a K3 on EME with WSJT using Line In/Out audio. Recently got a K3S and I am now using USB (CODEC) audio in and out of the radio. In WSJT-10 they have Rate In/Rate Out monitors that should normally run at 1.000. Using the K3 analog audio these always stayed right on 1.000 but now that I am using the USB audio they are jumping around quite often and getting out of range indicated in WSJT with a red marker. I have tried two different computers and the same result. I tried changing the sample rate in the computer audio settings but no change in the problem. I plan to go back to analog Line In/Out on the K3S unless someone has an idea on how to settle down the Rate In/Out fluctuations. I have not found anything in the K3S that might affect this. You can reply off line if you like. 73 Mike K4PI
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ROBERT MUELLER

Re: CODEC

Mike, I would be interested in what you find. Since Microsoft and then HRD did upgrades I have not been able to get WSJT to work with HRD and my K3S, therefore, the logging from FT* to HRD will not work. When I try to set things up I get a message: Hamlib error: IO error while opening connection to rig. I am running a USB cable which worked fine until all the upgrades. Very interested in what you find.
Bob, [hidden email]

> On October 1, 2018 at 11:49 AM Mike Greenway <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> I have used for years a K3 on EME with WSJT using Line In/Out audio. Recently got a K3S and I am now using USB (CODEC) audio in and out of the radio. In WSJT-10 they have Rate In/Rate Out monitors that should normally run at 1.000. Using the K3 analog audio these always stayed right on 1.000 but now that I am using the USB audio they are jumping around quite often and getting out of range indicated in WSJT with a red marker. I have tried two different computers and the same result. I tried changing the sample rate in the computer audio settings but no change in the problem. I plan to go back to analog Line In/Out on the K3S unless someone has an idea on how to settle down the Rate In/Out fluctuations. I have not found anything in the K3S that might affect this. You can reply off line if you like. 73 Mike K4PI
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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: CODEC

While I use both WSJT-X, V1.9.1, and HRD, I allow WSJT to create and
save its own log. Then I transfer the entries from the WSJT log to my
other log system. That then uploads the selected entries to LOTW.
I've more often than not found that if I allow one software to run
within or under another software, there's just two many cooks in the
kitchen tasting the pot.     In other words, I run WSJT as a stand a
lone application and do not have any conflicts. The operating system is
a current version of Windows 10 with all of their updates.

As suggestions, I would open WSJT as a stand a lone and see if it
connects to the rig and operates correctly.   Then close WSJT and open
HRD using one of its modes, i.e. PSK-31, and see if it operates
correctly.    If so on both, and mine does, then there is no specific
issue with either application or the computer or the radio.   I use the
USB communication with my K3S. Then with both applications running I
find is the area where the hand shake is supported to occur but indeed a
fist fight breaks out.   That says HRD will need to be update in order
for Windows 10 to handle the activity. The bottom line, when Microsoft
updates Windows 10, all other application software is likely in need of
an update as well.

Good luck in resolving the issue.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 10/1/2018 12:36 PM, ROBERT MUELLER wrote:

> Mike, I would be interested in what you find. Since Microsoft and then HRD did upgrades I have not been able to get WSJT to work with HRD and my K3S, therefore, the logging from FT* to HRD will not work. When I try to set things up I get a message: Hamlib error: IO error while opening connection to rig. I am running a USB cable which worked fine until all the upgrades. Very interested in what you find.
> Bob, [hidden email]
>> On October 1, 2018 at 11:49 AM Mike Greenway <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I have used for years a K3 on EME with WSJT using Line In/Out audio. Recently got a K3S and I am now using USB (CODEC) audio in and out of the radio. In WSJT-10 they have Rate In/Rate Out monitors that should normally run at 1.000. Using the K3 analog audio these always stayed right on 1.000 but now that I am using the USB audio they are jumping around quite often and getting out of range indicated in WSJT with a red marker. I have tried two different computers and the same result. I tried changing the sample rate in the computer audio settings but no change in the problem. I plan to go back to analog Line In/Out on the K3S unless someone has an idea on how to settle down the Rate In/Out fluctuations. I have not found anything in the K3S that might affect this. You can reply off line if you like. 73 Mike K4PI
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Rick WA6NHC-2

Re: CODEC

I’ve had zero issues with WSJT-X over HRD and now that the logging hooks were added to HRD, no more importing logs (or a third party program to link logs) is required.

It just works.

Rick WA6NHC

Smell Czech correction happen

> On Oct 1, 2018, at 12:42 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> While I use both WSJT-X, V1.9.1, and HRD, I allow WSJT to create and save its own log. Then I transfer the entries from the WSJT log to my other log system. That then uploads the selected entries to LOTW. I've more often than not found that if I allow one software to run within or under another software, there's just two many cooks in the kitchen tasting the pot. In other words, I run WSJT as a stand a lone application and do not have any conflicts. The operating system is a current version of Windows 10 with all of their updates.
>
> As suggestions, I would open WSJT as a stand a lone and see if it connects to the rig and operates correctly. Then close WSJT and open HRD using one of its modes, i.e. PSK-31, and see if it operates correctly. If so on both, and mine does, then there is no specific issue with either application or the computer or the radio. I use the USB communication with my K3S. Then with both applications running I find is the area where the hand shake is supported to occur but indeed a fist fight breaks out. That says HRD will need to be update in order for Windows 10 to handle the activity. The bottom line, when Microsoft updates Windows 10, all other application software is likely in need of an update as well.
>
> Good luck in resolving the issue.
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
>> On 10/1/2018 12:36 PM, ROBERT MUELLER wrote:
>> Mike, I would be interested in what you find. Since Microsoft and then HRD did upgrades I have not been able to get WSJT to work with HRD and my K3S, therefore, the logging from FT* to HRD will not work. When I try to set things up I get a message: Hamlib error: IO error while opening connection to rig. I am running a USB cable which worked fine until all the upgrades. Very interested in what you find.
>> Bob, [hidden email]
>>> On October 1, 2018 at 11:49 AM Mike Greenway <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I have used for years a K3 on EME with WSJT using Line In/Out audio. Recently got a K3S and I am now using USB (CODEC) audio in and out of the radio. In WSJT-10 they have Rate In/Rate Out monitors that should normally run at 1.000. Using the K3 analog audio these always stayed right on 1.000 but now that I am using the USB audio they are jumping around quite often and getting out of range indicated in WSJT with a red marker. I have tried two different computers and the same result. I tried changing the sample rate in the computer audio settings but no change in the problem. I plan to go back to analog Line In/Out on the K3S unless someone has an idea on how to settle down the Rate In/Out fluctuations. I have not found anything in the K3S that might affect this. You can reply off line if you like. 73 Mike K4PI
>>> ______________________________________________________________
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>
>
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Wes Stewart-2

Re: CODEC

In reply to this post by Mike K4PI

I had a K3 in service (now a spare) for about 8 years before getting a K3S. I
didn't do WSJT but some RTTY and PSK using the Line In/Out into my Lenovo laptop
internal sound card. Worked like a champ, started with zero and now have 255
countries on RTTY.

I tried to use the K3S USB sound and got tired of the incessant need to fuss
with drive and VOX levels. I requested many times for firmware that would save
VOX settings by mode to no avail. (When I had another issue, Elecraft Support
actually told me that they didn't recommend VOX on digital modes.)

I've returned to using the analog audio in/out of the radio and the laptop sound
card, which is higher quality anyway. (I have a TASCAM US-100, highly
recommended by the resident audio guru, but haven't found it to be any
advantage.) This also makes it easier to resort to the spare radio when necessary.

Wes N7WS standing by for the flack from the faithful.

On 10/1/2018 8:49 AM, Mike Greenway wrote:
> I have used for years a K3 on EME with WSJT using Line In/Out audio. Recently got a K3S and I am now using USB (CODEC) audio in and out of the radio. In WSJT-10 they have Rate In/Rate Out monitors that should normally run at 1.000. Using the K3 analog audio these always stayed right on 1.000 but now that I am using the USB audio they are jumping around quite often and getting out of range indicated in WSJT with a red marker. I have tried two different computers and the same result. I tried changing the sample rate in the computer audio settings but no change in the problem. I plan to go back to analog Line In/Out on the K3S unless someone has an idea on how to settle down the Rate In/Out fluctuations. I have not found anything in the K3S that might affect this. You can reply off line if you like. 73 Mike K4PI

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Elecraft mailing list

Re: CODEC

No flak, just a comment.

I upgraded my K3 #00345 with available K3s bits. I use the USB interface
for all K3<>PC communications, CAT and audio for digital modes. I use
Logger32 with the internal hooks to MMTTY, MMVARI, 2-Tone and GRITTY.
Logger32 receives logging broadcasts directly from wsjt-x (FT8) without
the need for additional software and gives me full access to my logbook
stats. FT8 decodes at -22dB are common.

I use VOX only for CW, everything else is PTT driven, either PC or foot
switch (SSB). All my data mode audio levels are balanced for TX level
across the various applications, absolutely no fiddling with my K3 line
levels are required.

It can be done. I'm still using Win7.

Regards,

Mike VP8NO

On 01/10/2018 17:08, Wes Stewart wrote:

> I had a K3 in service (now a spare) for about 8 years before getting a
> K3S. I didn't do WSJT but some RTTY and PSK using the Line In/Out into
> my Lenovo laptop internal sound card. Worked like a champ, started with
> zero and now have 255 countries on RTTY.
>
> I tried to use the K3S USB sound and got tired of the incessant need to
> fuss with drive and VOX levels. I requested many times for firmware
> that would save VOX settings by mode to no avail. (When I had another
> issue, Elecraft Support actually told me that they didn't recommend VOX
> on digital modes.)
>
> I've returned to using the analog audio in/out of the radio and the
> laptop sound card, which is higher quality anyway. (I have a TASCAM
> US-100, highly recommended by the resident audio guru, but haven't found
> it to be any advantage.) This also makes it easier to resort to the
> spare radio when necessary.
>
> Wes N7WS standing by for the flack from the faithful.
>

tomb18

Re: CODEC

In reply to this post by Mike K4PI

No need for VOX, just use software PTT.
Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: Wes Stewart
Sent: Monday, October 1, 2018 4:08 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CODEC

I had a K3 in service (now a spare) for about 8 years before getting a K3S.
I
didn't do WSJT but some RTTY and PSK using the Line In/Out into my Lenovo
laptop
internal sound card. Worked like a champ, started with zero and now have
255
countries on RTTY.

I tried to use the K3S USB sound and got tired of the incessant need to fuss
with drive and VOX levels. I requested many times for firmware that would
save
VOX settings by mode to no avail. (When I had another issue, Elecraft
Support
actually told me that they didn't recommend VOX on digital modes.)

I've returned to using the analog audio in/out of the radio and the laptop
sound
card, which is higher quality anyway. (I have a TASCAM US-100, highly
recommended by the resident audio guru, but haven't found it to be any
advantage.) This also makes it easier to resort to the spare radio when
necessary.

Wes N7WS standing by for the flack from the faithful.

On 10/1/2018 8:49 AM, Mike Greenway wrote:

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tomb18

Re: CODEC

In reply to this post by Mike K4PI

Here's a possibility: RFI.
Wrap your (all!) USB wires through some 2" diameter mix 31 ferrite cores. 7
or 8 turns will do fine. Don't run the codecs over a hub.
Turn off all USB power savings as well.
73 Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Greenway
Sent: Monday, October 1, 2018 11:49 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] CODEC

I have used for years a K3 on EME with WSJT using Line In/Out audio.
Recently got a K3S and I am now using USB (CODEC) audio in and out of the
radio. In WSJT-10 they have Rate In/Rate Out monitors that should normally
run at 1.000. Using the K3 analog audio these always stayed right on 1.000
but now that I am using the USB audio they are jumping around quite often
and getting out of range indicated in WSJT with a red marker. I have tried
two different computers and the same result. I tried changing the sample
rate in the computer audio settings but no change in the problem. I plan to
go back to analog Line In/Out on the K3S unless someone has an idea on how
to settle down the Rate In/Out fluctuations. I have not found anything in
the K3S that might affect this. You can reply off line if you like. 73
Mike K4PI
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Wes Stewart-2

Re: CODEC

In reply to this post by tomb18

The following is nothing personal.

I use AFSK on RTTY. That's "Audio" FSK. On SSB, an audio mode, I like
thousands of other folks, use VOX, not some flaky software PTT. Why on Earth
when using a different audio mode should I have to use a different method of T/R
switching, particularly when the audio signal is a constant level? Makes
absolutely no sense to me.

N7WS

On 10/1/2018 3:42 PM, Tom wrote:
> No need for VOX, just use software PTT.
> Tom

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Rick WA6NHC-2

Re: CODEC

While thousands may use VOX, at least thousands use PTT. One reason is
that sound cards are rarely response flat, so the levels will change
according to the frequency of the tone. This means that the VOX may/not
be activated by the current tone or may not hold if on the edge of the
required level. If you never change the frequency of the tones (as in
point and click PSK or by using FT8 in DXpedition/split mode) it may not
be an issue for you. I've found it to be less reliable than PTT.

I rarely use VOX at all (except on CW for full break in), if only to
keep background noises (other radios for example) from making it
complicated.

Software PTT is not flaky. That is insulting to both the software
authors and those that designed the radio to accept the PTT command. In
point of fact, it's more reliable than VOX has been because it isn't
level driven, just simply on or off.

The issues you may have had with PTT could be the virtual ports often in
play, it's a wonder those work at all. I use real serial ports, no
sharing, using the KISS principle and have never had a software PTT
issue. I also find real serial ports less RF sensitive (FAR easier to
shield), therefore more reliable than USB which often locks up in the
presence of strong RF.

Rick nhc

On 10/1/2018 4:42 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:

> The following is nothing personal.
>
> I use AFSK on RTTY. That's "Audio" FSK. On SSB, an audio mode, I
> like thousands of other folks, use VOX, not some flaky software PTT.
> Why on Earth when using a different audio mode should I have to use a
> different method of T/R switching, particularly when the audio signal
> is a constant level? Makes absolutely no sense to me.
>
> N7WS
>
>
> On 10/1/2018 3:42 PM, Tom wrote:
>> No need for VOX, just use software PTT.
>> Tom
>
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Jim Brown-10

Re: CODEC

On 10/1/2018 10:47 PM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:
> While thousands may use VOX

I'm one of those, and I've done it for many years with everything from
RTTY to SSB to FT8, JT65, JT9, and MSK144. It works VERY well. It's one
less connection to worry about, and it works fine. I do a LOT of
contesting, and a wild guess is that I've done at least 20,00 QSOs this
way.

If you WANT to use PTT, be my guest, but you're adding un-necessary
complication to your setup.

73, Jim K9YC

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Wes Stewart-2

Re: CODEC

In reply to this post by Rick WA6NHC-2

Good grief. I was discussing RTTY. Two tones separated by 170 Hz. Why make it
so complicated?

On 10/1/2018 10:47 PM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:
> While thousands may use VOX, at least thousands use PTT. One reason is that
> sound cards are rarely response flat, so the levels will change according to
> the frequency of the tone.
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Wes Stewart-2

Re: CODEC

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Yep

On 10/2/2018 1:20 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On 10/1/2018 10:47 PM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:
>> While thousands may use VOX
>
> I'm one of those, and I've done it for many years with everything from RTTY to
> SSB to FT8, JT65, JT9, and MSK144. It works VERY well. It's one less
> connection to worry about, and it works fine. I do a LOT of contesting, and a
> wild guess is that I've done at least 20,00 QSOs this way.
>
> If you WANT to use PTT, be my guest, but you're adding un-necessary
> complication to your setup.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC

Ed Muns

Re: CODEC

In reply to this post by Wes Stewart-2

My experience differs.
When the K3S came out, I upgraded all my original K3 radios with all the available K3S parts.
I've enjoyed the simplification of the digital audio and the elimination of the Serial-USB adapter. I seldom adjust the audio levels and certainly no more often than with the analog audio. Across a weekend RTTY contest there might be a few very minor adjustments from 10 thtough 80 meters.
One annoyance is that the Windows level applet gives only mono adjustment for the K3 stereo LINE OUT but stereo adjustment for the mono LINE IN. It appears that Windows is choosing stereo Playback control for LINE IN and mono Recording control for LINE OUT.
There must be a way to correct this, but I haven't found it.
73,Ed W0YK
-------- Original message --------From: Wes Stewart <[hidden email]> Date: 10/1/18 16:08 (GMT-05:00) To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CODEC
I had a K3 in service (now a spare) for about 8 years before getting a K3S. I
didn't do WSJT but some RTTY and PSK using the Line In/Out into my Lenovo laptop
internal sound card. Worked like a champ, started with zero and now have 255
countries on RTTY.

I tried to use the K3S USB sound and got tired of the incessant need to fuss
with drive and VOX levels. I requested many times for firmware that would save
VOX settings by mode to no avail. (When I had another issue, Elecraft Support
actually told me that they didn't recommend VOX on digital modes.)

I've returned to using the analog audio in/out of the radio and the laptop sound
card, which is higher quality anyway. (I have a TASCAM US-100, highly
recommended by the resident audio guru, but haven't found it to be any
advantage.) This also makes it easier to resort to the spare radio when necessary.

Wes N7WS standing by for the flack from the faithful.

On 10/1/2018 8:49 AM, Mike Greenway wrote:
> I have used for years a K3 on EME with WSJT using Line In/Out audio. Recently got a K3S and I am now using USB (CODEC) audio in and out of the radio. In WSJT-10 they have Rate In/Rate Out monitors that should normally run at 1.000. Using the K3 analog audio these always stayed right on 1.000 but now that I am using the USB audio they are jumping around quite often and getting out of range indicated in WSJT with a red marker. I have tried two different computers and the same result. I tried changing the sample rate in the computer audio settings but no change in the problem. I plan to go back to analog Line In/Out on the K3S unless someone has an idea on how to settle down the Rate In/Out fluctuations. I have not found anything in the K3S that might affect this. You can reply off line if you like. 73 Mike K4PI

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Rick WA6NHC-2

Re: CODEC

In reply to this post by Wes Stewart-2

I also use that same serial connection to enable the logging program to
note the exact frequency in use at the time of the QSO, or to have the
computer be able to QSY on a mouse click.

It's not a complication, it's a convenience. In the case of FT8, the
serial connection is THE way to operate split in DXpedition mode.

Rick nhc

On 10/2/2018 6:28 AM, Wes Stewart wrote:

> Yep
>
> On 10/2/2018 1:20 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
>> On 10/1/2018 10:47 PM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:
>>> While thousands may use VOX
>>
>> I'm one of those, and I've done it for many years with everything
>> from RTTY to SSB to FT8, JT65, JT9, and MSK144. It works VERY well.
>> It's one less connection to worry about, and it works fine. I do a
>> LOT of contesting, and a wild guess is that I've done at least 20,00
>> QSOs this way.
>>
>> If you WANT to use PTT, be my guest, but you're adding un-necessary
>> complication to your setup.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>
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Rick WA6NHC-2

Re: CODEC

In reply to this post by Mike K4PI

Presuming Windows 10 (previous flavors are similar):

1) Right click the speaker icon, lower right; select "Open Sound Settings"
2) When that panel opens, click on "Sound Control Panel"
3) In playback or recording tab, select the device you want to change
by double clicking it
4) In the advanced tab of that device; change the default format to
single/dual channel(s) and the bit rates desired.
5) Ok your way back out, done.
6) Report back to the group.

Mine are all defaulted to two audio channels, even though the mic inputs
are typically mono only. What I've found is that the software for
decoding digital modes, isn't usually refined enough to listen to two
channels of audio, or just one channel of choice, so dual decoding (one
channel per receiver) is a challenge. That isn't often needed for me,
so it's not a huge issue.

73,
Rick NHC

On 10/2/2018 6:32 AM, Ed W0YK wrote:
> There must be a way to correct this, but I haven't found it.
> 73,Ed W0YK
> -------- Origi

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jeff stai-2

Re: CODEC

In reply to this post by Mike K4PI

I bet Mike would appreciate getting back to his issue, which has nothing to
do with VOX...

Are you using a high end sound card/CODEC? If so it may just be that the
internal CODEC - while quite good - is not up to snuff for this
application.

I'd also try using different USB cables, though that doesn't sound like it
would be the problem.

73 jeff wk6i

On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 8:49 AM, Mike Greenway <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have used for years a K3 on EME with WSJT using Line In/Out audio.
> Recently got a K3S and I am now using USB (CODEC) audio in and out of the
> radio. In WSJT-10 they have Rate In/Rate Out monitors that should normally
> run at 1.000. Using the K3 analog audio these always stayed right on 1.000
> but now that I am using the USB audio they are jumping around quite often
> and getting out of range indicated in WSJT with a red marker. I have tried
> two different computers and the same result. I tried changing the sample
> rate in the computer audio settings but no change in the problem. I plan
> to go back to analog Line In/Out on the K3S unless someone has an idea on
> how to settle down the Rate In/Out fluctuations. I have not found anything
> in the K3S that might affect this. You can reply off line if you like. 73
> Mike K4PI
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--
Jeff Stai ~ WK6I ~ [hidden email]
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Facebook ~ http://www.facebook.com/twistedoak
RTTY op at W7RN
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Re: CODEC

In reply to this post by Mike K4PI

You could always create something in Python, to have the computer read
and save the current rig settings you will alter, then invoke whatever
digimode software you use, then restore those radio settings to "normal"
after you've done.

There's lots of info out there regarding how to use serial ports etc
from within Python. For rigs with a LAN port, it's even easier! That,
and the excellent Elecraft user/programming manual are all you need,
other than time.

Python is an easy language to learn, OK, so not as simple as "Basic",
but simple enough for first timers, and capable enough for more
experienced types.

Works in Windows and Linux (including the Pi of course) and probably on
Mac's too. There are a host of developer tools out there, but a good
cross platform editor that is Python (and other language) syntax aware
editor, is "Geany". Very good.

Regards.

Dave G0WBX.

On 02/10/18 03:36, [hidden email] wrote:
> I tried to use the K3S USB sound and got tired of the incessant need to fuss
> with drive and VOX levels.? I requested many times for firmware that would save
> VOX settings by mode to no avail. (When I had another issue, Elecraft Support
> actually told me that they didn't recommend VOX on digital modes.)

--
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::

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Neil Zampella

Re: CODEC

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Jim,

I use PTT with both my K2 and my KX3, its just one additional USB
connection to the PC. The other is to my external USB soundcard which
does audio for both.

Neil, KN3ILZ

On 10/2/2018 4:20 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On 10/1/2018 10:47 PM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:
>> While thousands may use VOX
>
> I'm one of those, and I've done it for many years with everything from
> RTTY to SSB to FT8, JT65, JT9, and MSK144. It works VERY well. It's
> one less connection to worry about, and it works fine. I do a LOT of
> contesting, and a wild guess is that I've done at least 20,00 QSOs
> this way.
>
> If you WANT to use PTT, be my guest, but you're adding un-necessary
> complication to your setup.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>

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