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As previously posted the problem had nothing to do with CODEC or the K3S. Problem turned out to be the time update of the computer by Dimension 4. I had it set for updates every 1 sec as I didn’t think that was a problem. I now have it set for 30 Mins and probably and hour would not hurt anything as every 15 secs it does about .049 correction on my computer. I don’t think it is abnormal for the Rates on WSJT-10 to jump out of range when a time update is done to the computer. Something you cant see on WSJT-X or JTDX. Thanks to all that wrote with suggestions, all of them good. 73 Mike K4PI
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Mike,
It is not unusual at all for things to "get jumpy" when the computer is busy doing some frequent task. Why do we always blame the radio first. In this day of digital stuff with a computer involved, 90% of the time the problem is with the computer or the settings in your application. 73, Don W3FPR On 10/4/2018 5:32 PM, Mike Greenway wrote: > As previously posted the problem had nothing to do with CODEC or the K3S. Problem turned out to be the time update of the computer by Dimension 4. I had it set for updates every 1 sec as I didn’t think that was a problem. I now have it set for 30 Mins and probably and hour would not hurt anything as every 15 secs it does about .049 correction on my computer. I don’t think it is abnormal for the Rates on WSJT-10 to jump out of range when a time update is done to the computer. Something you cant see on WSJT-X or JTDX. Thanks to all that wrote with suggestions, all of them good. 73 Mike K4PI ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Thank you Don. Over and over again, I've said "what did you do last,
before you broke it?" Well then, go undo that. 73 Bob, K4TAX On 10/4/2018 5:03 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: > Mike, > > It is not unusual at all for things to "get jumpy" when the computer > is busy doing some frequent task. > > Why do we always blame the radio first. In this day of digital stuff > with a computer involved, 90% of the time the problem is with the > computer or the settings in your application. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > On 10/4/2018 5:32 PM, Mike Greenway wrote: >> As previously posted the problem had nothing to do with CODEC or the >> K3S. Problem turned out to be the time update of the computer by >> Dimension 4. I had it set for updates every 1 sec as I didn’t think >> that was a problem. I now have it set for 30 Mins and probably and >> hour would not hurt anything as every 15 secs it does about .049 >> correction on my computer. I don’t think it is abnormal for the >> Rates on WSJT-10 to jump out of range when a time update is done to >> the computer. Something you cant see on WSJT-X or JTDX. Thanks to >> all that wrote with suggestions, all of them good. 73 Mike K4PI > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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It seems to be standard human nature that, when something that was
working fails, we all gravitate to the worst possible cause [hardest to fix, most costly, etc]. It used to be said that what you want when something fails is a tiny little fire over in a corner of the chassis. Tells you where to look. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 10/4/2018 3:15 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: > Thank you Don. Over and over again, I've said "what did you do last, > before you broke it?" Well then, go undo that. > > 73 > > Bob, K4TAX ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Mike K4PI
You had your computer set up to update the clock EVERY SECOND! WOW!!!
I have mine set up to sync the clock every 5 hours and worried I had borderline CDO behavior. For the uninformed please note that CDO is Obsessive Compulsive Disorder with the acronym arranged in correct alphabetical order which simply must be done if one is to be obsessively compulsive IMHO. 73, Joe, W8JH ----- 73, Joe, W8JH K3 1713, KPA 132, KX3 7498 -- Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]
73,
Joe, W8JH K3s, KPA 500, KAT 500 and KX3 happy user. |
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In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX
Bob has clearly identified one of the classics. My favorite came
from a tech support person working with an old batch mode computer. The dialog goes: "I didn't change anything." "Why did you run it again?" 73 Bill AE6JV On 10/4/18 at 3:15 PM, [hidden email] (Bob McGraw K4TAX) wrote: >Thank you Don. Over and over again, I've said "what did you >do last, before you broke it?" Well then, go undo that. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz |Security, like correctness, is| Periwinkle (408)356-8506 |not an add-on feature. - Attr-| 16345 Englewood Ave www.pwpconsult.com |ibuted to Andrew Tanenbaum | Los Gatos, CA 95032 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by k6dgw
We've turned into a society of blame "someone or something" else. We need to more frequently look in the mirror. Otherwise, when pointing the finger of blame, look down, there's 3 pointing at the most likely source.
Bob, K4TAX Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 4, 2018, at 6:10 PM, Fred Jensen <[hidden email]> wrote: > > It seems to be standard human nature that, when something that was working fails, we all gravitate to the worst possible cause [hardest to fix, most costly, etc]. It used to be said that what you want when something fails is a tiny little fire over in a corner of the chassis. Tells you where to look. > > 73, > > Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW > Sparks NV DM09dn > Washoe County > >> On 10/4/2018 3:15 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: >> Thank you Don. Over and over again, I've said "what did you do last, before you broke it?" Well then, go undo that. >> >> 73 >> >> Bob, K4TAX > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Mike K4PI
There should be very little reason to use Dimension 4, with step updates
at fixed intervals. The full implementation of ntpd is available for all the Windows NT family, i.e. everything after Windows 95, and versions or w32time that can be configured to implement the older version of NTP have been supplied with Windows since at least Windows XP. The standard ntpd always works by managing clock frequency, so there are no abrupt time steps unless something has gone sufficiently wrong to result in a step of at least 200ms. w32time can be configured to work that way, although generally installing the standard (reference) version of ntpd is preferred. (ntpd can be configured to almost never step the time.) Although Windows is not a good platform for time keeping, both these approaches ought to produce times accurate to about 20ms, and only slowly changing with time. In some circumstances, Linux can produce several orders of magnitude better results. On 04/10/18 22:32, Mike Greenway wrote: > As previously posted the problem had nothing to do with CODEC or the K3S. Problem turned out to be the time update of the computer by Dimension 4. I had it set for updates every 1 sec as I didn’t think that was a problem. I now have it set for 30 Mins and probably and hour would not hurt anything as every 15 secs it does about .049 correction on my computer. I don’t think it is abnormal for the Rates on WSJT-10 to jump out of range when a time update is done to the computer. Something you cant see on WSJT-X or JTDX. Thanks to all that wrote with suggestions, all of them good. 73 Mike K4PI > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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David
>There should be very little reason to use Dimension 4 There is often a significant gap between Theory and Practice, and such is the case with using Windows as a self-regulated timepiece. True, Windows is a well behaved ntp client, but the default interval for Windows "phoning home" to resync is 7 days. In 7 days my PC has drifted so far that FT8 operation is impossible. The user has two choices: use Regedit and mess with the Windows registry to reduce the interval; or install a time sync program. For most, the second option is easier. -larry (K8UT) ------ Original Message ------ From: "David Woolley" <[hidden email]> To: "Mike Greenway" <[hidden email]>; [hidden email] Sent: 2018-10-06 08:27:19 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CODEC >There should be very little reason to use Dimension 4, with step >updates at fixed intervals. The full implementation of ntpd is >available for all the Windows NT family, i.e. everything after Windows >95, and versions or w32time that can be configured to implement the >older version of NTP have been supplied with Windows since at least >Windows XP. > >The standard ntpd always works by managing clock frequency, so there >are no abrupt time steps unless something has gone sufficiently wrong >to result in a step of at least 200ms. w32time can be configured to >work that way, although generally installing the standard (reference) >version of ntpd is preferred. (ntpd can be configured to almost never >step the time.) > >Although Windows is not a good platform for time keeping, both these >approaches ought to produce times accurate to about 20ms, and only >slowly changing with time. In some circumstances, Linux can produce >several orders of magnitude better results. > > >On 04/10/18 22:32, Mike Greenway wrote: >>As previously posted the problem had nothing to do with CODEC or the >>K3S. Problem turned out to be the time update of the computer by >>Dimension 4. I had it set for updates every 1 sec as I didn’t think >>that was a problem. I now have it set for 30 Mins and probably and >>hour would not hurt anything as every 15 secs it does about .049 >>correction on my computer. I don’t think it is abnormal for the Rates >>on WSJT-10 to jump out of range when a time update is done to the >>computer. Something you cant see on WSJT-X or JTDX. Thanks to all >>that wrote with suggestions, all of them good. 73 Mike K4PI >> > > >______________________________________________________________ >Elecraft mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:[hidden email] > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >Message delivered to [hidden email] Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Or if you will, when you sit down to operate, go to Windows Time and Date and update the time. More than adequately accurate for several hours of operation.
Bob, K4TAX Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 6, 2018, at 3:15 PM, Larry (K8UT) <[hidden email]> wrote: > > David > > >There should be very little reason to use Dimension 4 > There is often a significant gap between Theory and Practice, and such is the case with using Windows as a self-regulated timepiece. True, Windows is a well behaved ntp client, but the default interval for Windows "phoning home" to resync is 7 days. In 7 days my PC has drifted so far that FT8 operation is impossible. > > The user has two choices: use Regedit and mess with the Windows registry to reduce the interval; or install a time sync program. For most, the second option is easier. > > -larry (K8UT) > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "David Woolley" <[hidden email]> > To: "Mike Greenway" <[hidden email]>; [hidden email] > Sent: 2018-10-06 08:27:19 > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CODEC > >> There should be very little reason to use Dimension 4, with step updates at fixed intervals. The full implementation of ntpd is available for all the Windows NT family, i.e. everything after Windows 95, and versions or w32time that can be configured to implement the older version of NTP have been supplied with Windows since at least Windows XP. >> >> The standard ntpd always works by managing clock frequency, so there are no abrupt time steps unless something has gone sufficiently wrong to result in a step of at least 200ms. w32time can be configured to work that way, although generally installing the standard (reference) version of ntpd is preferred. (ntpd can be configured to almost never step the time.) >> >> Although Windows is not a good platform for time keeping, both these approaches ought to produce times accurate to about 20ms, and only slowly changing with time. In some circumstances, Linux can produce several orders of magnitude better results. >> >> >>> On 04/10/18 22:32, Mike Greenway wrote: >>> As previously posted the problem had nothing to do with CODEC or the K3S. Problem turned out to be the time update of the computer by Dimension 4. I had it set for updates every 1 sec as I didn’t think that was a problem. I now have it set for 30 Mins and probably and hour would not hurt anything as every 15 secs it does about .049 correction on my computer. I don’t think it is abnormal for the Rates on WSJT-10 to jump out of range when a time update is done to the computer. Something you cant see on WSJT-X or JTDX. Thanks to all that wrote with suggestions, all of them good. 73 Mike K4PI >>> >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to [hidden email] > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Larry (K8UT)
On 2018-10-06 4:15 PM, Larry (K8UT) wrote: > The user has two choices: use Regedit and mess with the Windows > registry to reduce the interval; or install a time sync program. For > most, the second option is easier. Actually, there is a third option ... install a proper NTP service like Meinberg NTP to replace the Windows NTP client. Once Meinberg is installed and configured, Windows time never drifts more than a fraction of a millisecond. 73, ... Joe, W4TV ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX
Except, again, MS hacked NTP years ago to lose accuracy to assist their
sloppy legacy networking, with the results being that it's considered 'good' if within several MINUTES. This could explain why some FT8 users are lagging by a second or two, which is fatal for decoding (plus it's not 'on' by default). If it works for you, great, it's not by design. Add the new NTP program over it (Dimension 4, Meinburg) and you never have to remember to update before playing, plus it's accurate within .02 or less seconds. The other (minor) bonus is that these provide tracking so when you boot, the median error is already known so you're accurate more quickly. For me, simple just ROCKS. Rick nhc On 10/6/2018 1:39 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: > Or if you will, when you sit down to operate, go to Windows Time and Date and update the time. More than adequately accurate for several hours of operation. > > Bob, K4TAX > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 6, 2018, at 3:15 PM, Larry (K8UT) <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> David >> >>> There should be very little reason to use Dimension 4 >> There is often a significant gap between Theory and Practice, and such is the case with using Windows as a self-regulated timepiece. True, Windows is a well behaved ntp client, but the default interval for Windows "phoning home" to resync is 7 days. In 7 days my PC has drifted so far that FT8 operation is impossible. >> >> The user has two choices: use Regedit and mess with the Windows registry to reduce the interval; or install a time sync program. For most, the second option is easier. >> >> -larry (K8UT) >> >> ------ Original Message ------ >> From: "David Woolley" <[hidden email]> >> To: "Mike Greenway" <[hidden email]>; [hidden email] >> Sent: 2018-10-06 08:27:19 >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CODEC >> >>> There should be very little reason to use Dimension 4, with step updates at fixed intervals. The full implementation of ntpd is available for all the Windows NT family, i.e. everything after Windows 95, and versions or w32time that can be configured to implement the older version of NTP have been supplied with Windows since at least Windows XP. >>> >>> The standard ntpd always works by managing clock frequency, so there are no abrupt time steps unless something has gone sufficiently wrong to result in a step of at least 200ms. w32time can be configured to work that way, although generally installing the standard (reference) version of ntpd is preferred. (ntpd can be configured to almost never step the time.) >>> >>> Although Windows is not a good platform for time keeping, both these approaches ought to produce times accurate to about 20ms, and only slowly changing with time. In some circumstances, Linux can produce several orders of magnitude better results. >>> >>> >>>> On 04/10/18 22:32, Mike Greenway wrote: >>>> As previously posted the problem had nothing to do with CODEC or the K3S. Problem turned out to be the time update of the computer by Dimension 4. I had it set for updates every 1 sec as I didn’t think that was a problem. I now have it set for 30 Mins and probably and hour would not hurt anything as every 15 secs it does about .049 correction on my computer. I don’t think it is abnormal for the Rates on WSJT-10 to jump out of range when a time update is done to the computer. Something you cant see on WSJT-X or JTDX. Thanks to all that wrote with suggestions, all of them good. 73 Mike K4PI >>>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> Message delivered to [hidden email] >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to [hidden email] > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Larry (K8UT)
But if they want to install a third party time sync program they are
better off installing W3HCF's definitive implementation of the NTP protocol, rather than a program that was, I believe, really designed for Windows 3.1/95. In 06/10/18 21:15, Larry (K8UT) wrote: > The user has two choices: use Regedit and mess with the Windows registry > to reduce the interval; or install a time sync program. For most, the > second option is easier. > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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