CW Keying characteristics-computer vs Bencher

[Ralph McClintock]

 I finally hooked up my computer keying circuit, 2N2222 off the parallel port, to my K2 before the CQWW contest. I have noticed what appears to be a significant difference in the keying characteristic from the computer versus the keying from the Bencher key. The computer appears to have a significantly harder characteristic than the Bencher. This is observed in the sidetone as I have not checked it with a 2nd receiver. Has anyone else noticed this phenomenon?
tnx & 73's,
Ralph W1ZK
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[Vic K2VCO]

Ralph McClintock wrote:

> I finally hooked up my computer keying circuit, 2N2222 off the parallel port,
> to my K2 before the CQWW contest. I have noticed what appears to be a
> significant difference in the keying characteristic from the computer versus
> the keying from the Bencher key. The computer appears to have a significantly
> harder characteristic than the Bencher. This is observed in the sidetone as I
> have not checked it with a 2nd receiver. Has anyone else noticed this
> phenomenon?

By 'harder' do you mean that the rise/fall time of the pulses is shorter?  This
is the usual meaning of 'hard' keying.  To check it, you need to look at the RF
output on a scope or listen with an external receiver set to a very wide
bandwidth.  I suppose the sidetone could seem harder as well, and could also be
checked on a scope.  I think this is unlikely, though of course possible.

However, I suspect that you mean that the duration of the pulses is shorter;
that is, the dot/space ratio is lower.  This is certainly possible.  The
internal keyer has an adjustable dot/space ratio (from 0.9:1 to 1.2:1 I think).
  The logging program that generates the computer CW is also probably
adjustable, so if the keying sounds too 'light' you can increase the weighting
(another word for dot/space ratio).

So, is the problem in the realm of hard/soft or light/heavy?

--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco

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[Ralph McClintock]

Dan,
 I am referring exactly to weight. Yes, the K2 has a weight adjustment but
it does not, or should not,  know the difference between the Bencher key and
the keying from the computer running Writelog that is paralleled onto the
same wire going into the key input. The computer input is run through 1N914
or equivalent diodes. My K2/100 has the key click mod but that should not
make any difference in this case. Why the difference is in weight is my
question.
W1ZK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Barker" <[hidden email]>
To: "Ralph McClintock" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 12:29 PM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] CW Keying characteristics-computer vs Bencher


> "Harder" usually refers to keying envelope shape. The differences I'd
expect
> from the two keying methods you've described would have to do with
"Weight"

> (length of the elements).
>
> To which issue are you referring?
>
> The K2 keyer weight is adjustable, but it's CPU has other duties and might
> sometimes miss it's timing window. (Not a the speeds I can run, I assure
> you<g>).
>
> Dan / WG4S / K2 #2456
>
> Ralph McClintock asks:
> <snip>
> The computer appears to have a significantly harder characteristic than

the
> Bencher.
> </snip>
>
>


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[Vic K2VCO]

Ralph McClintock wrote:

> Dan,
>  I am referring exactly to weight. Yes, the K2 has a weight adjustment but
> it does not, or should not,  know the difference between the Bencher key and
> the keying from the computer running Writelog that is paralleled onto the
> same wire going into the key input.

If you are using a Bencher paddle then you are using the internal keyer, which
generates the CW elements and sets the weight.  Writelog generates the CW
elements itself and keys the K2 as though it were a straight key.  The K2's
autodetect circuit allows you to activate your internal keyer with the paddle
while treating the computer interface as a straight key.

--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco

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[Ralph McClintock]

Don,
The computer generates an on-off. Writelog does not allow any adjustment of
keying characteristics. The Bencher generates an open or ground. Why does
the K2 recognize the Bencher, a mechanical switch, as soft and why does it
recognize the computer as hard?
Ralph W1ZK

----- Original Message -----
From: "W3FPR - Don Wilhelm" <[hidden email]>
To: "Ralph McClintock" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW Keying characteristics-computer vs Bencher


> Ralph,
>
> There is little to nothing that one can do to alter the keying waveshape
> from the outside of the K2, so you are likely hearing something different
> than the keying waveshape.
>
> How does the computer program handle the keying 'weight' - I would expect
> that to be the difference you hear.  Change the weighting characteristic
in
> the program to something different (if the program allows you to change
it)
> just to see - and then set whatever you desire.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> I finally hooked up my computer keying circuit, 2N2222 off the parallel
> port, to my K2 before the CQWW contest. I have noticed what appears to be
a
> significant difference in the keying characteristic from the computer
versus
> the keying from the Bencher key. The computer appears to have a
> significantly harder characteristic than the Bencher. This is observed in
> the sidetone as I have not checked it with a 2nd receiver. Has anyone else
> noticed this phenomenon?
> tnx & 73's,
> Ralph W1ZK
>
>
>


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[Jessie Oberreuter]

      Just to nail down the test case, you are keying via the key input (if
so, in straight key more or in auto-detect mode), or programmatically
through the serial port?

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004, Ralph McClintock wrote:

> Don,
> The computer generates an on-off. Writelog does not allow any adjustment of
> keying characteristics. The Bencher generates an open or ground. Why does
> the K2 recognize the Bencher, a mechanical switch, as soft and why does it
> recognize the computer as hard?
> Ralph W1ZK
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "W3FPR - Don Wilhelm" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Ralph McClintock" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 7:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW Keying characteristics-computer vs Bencher
>
>
>> Ralph,
>>
>> There is little to nothing that one can do to alter the keying waveshape
>> from the outside of the K2, so you are likely hearing something different
>> than the keying waveshape.
>>
>> How does the computer program handle the keying 'weight' - I would expect
>> that to be the difference you hear.  Change the weighting characteristic
> in
>> the program to something different (if the program allows you to change
> it)
>> just to see - and then set whatever you desire.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> I finally hooked up my computer keying circuit, 2N2222 off the parallel
>> port, to my K2 before the CQWW contest. I have noticed what appears to be
> a
>> significant difference in the keying characteristic from the computer
> versus
>> the keying from the Bencher key. The computer appears to have a
>> significantly harder characteristic than the Bencher. This is observed in
>> the sidetone as I have not checked it with a 2nd receiver. Has anyone else
>> noticed this phenomenon?
>> tnx & 73's,
>> Ralph W1ZK
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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[Mike S-8]

At 03:19 PM 12/12/2004, Ralph McClintock wrote...
>Don,
>The computer generates an on-off. Writelog does not allow any adjustment of
>keying characteristics. The Bencher generates an open or ground. Why does
>the K2 recognize the Bencher, a mechanical switch, as soft and why does it
>recognize the computer as hard?
>Ralph W1ZK

Which is it - the RF waveform ("hard") or the keying weight? You've already said "I am referring exactly to weight." Hard/soft by convention refer to the sound of the RF waveshape, heavy/light refers to the on/off ratio (weight). You're mixing terminology and confusing the issue.

Keying weight is a function of they keyer. As has already been explained, when you use a paddle, you're using the K2's internal keyer, and consequently get the weight for which that is set; the K2 is making the dots and dashes. The Bencher generates _two_ opens/grounds, and is telling the K2 to make a dot or a dash. As far as the K2 is concerned, the computer is just a straight key, so any "weight" (and speed) is a function of the computer program you're using. The K2 has nothing to do with the dots and the dashes, it's just making RF when it sees "key down." A difference is to be expected, both in weight and speed - you're comparing two different keyers (the K2's vs. the Writelog's).

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[Jim Brown-10]

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:19:18 -0000, Ralph McClintock wrote:

>The computer generates an on-off. Writelog does not allow any adjustment of
>keying characteristics. The Bencher generates an open or ground. Why does
>the K2 recognize the Bencher, a mechanical switch, as soft and why does it
>recognize the computer as hard?

It does not. But the computer and the Bencher are doing two different things. The
Bencher is running the K2's internal keyer. When you adjust the weight, you are
adjusting that keyer.

When the computer does the keying, it is acting as a simple straight key, and the
keying program within the computer (in your case, WriteLog) establishes the weight.

The K2 includes "smart logic" that acts as that switch to interpret keying on both dits
and dahs as a straight key, so it bypasses the keyer.  You will notice, for example,
that the speed in WriteLog is set by WriteLog, whereas the speed of the K2 keying
using your paddle is set by the K2's knob. And you can easily set them differently.

Jim Brown  K9YC


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[k7nhb]

Ralph,
Another, or an "again" way of saying what has been said is:
You are assuming that the K2 sees the Bencher and computer keying as
the same. If that were the case, they would be....the same.

The K2 does NOT see the Bencher and the computer as the same. It sees
the Bencher as triggering the K2's internal keyer and applies what
ever weighting that implies. It sees the computer as a straight key
so the dit/dah ratio is what ever you apply sending by hand. Except
it is not your hand that is sending. It's the computer software
program. So the weighting of of the computer program controls its
keying ratio when sending by keyboard and the weighting of the K2's
internal keyer controls the Bencher ratio when sending by paddle.

73,
Paul
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[Ralph McClintock]

Don,
 Everything here is iambic paddles. I haven't used a hand key since 1962,
Hi. The Writelog program does not permit key "weighting." I did some more
checking and discovered that bringing the K2 weight down to it's lowest
value of 0.90, it was at 1.10, makes it closer. There is still a difference,
though not as bad, between computer and internal K2 keyer. I wish I could go
below 0.90.
Thanks for the help,
W1ZK


----- Original Message -----
From: "W3FPR - Don Wilhelm" <[hidden email]>
To: "Ralph McClintock" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW Keying characteristics-computer vs Bencher


> Ralph,
>
> Is your "Bencher" a keyer, or is it just paddles?
>
> If it is a keyer, it will generate its own weighting which may be
different
> than the weighting generated by Writelog
>
> OTOH, if your Bencher is a paddle (as I suspect), it activates uses the
dot
> and dash lines as input to the internal K2 keyer - that internal keyer is
> what determines the weighting from the paddle.
> Writelog forms the dots and dashes and sends its own version of 'proper'
> weighting to the K2.  The K2 recognizes the input from the computer as a
> hand key type input (through the two diodes), and will not alter the
length
> of the dots or dashes nor the spacing.
>
> Bottom line, if you can't change the weighting in Writelog, you will
either

> have to settle for what you get, or set the K2 keyer weighting to match
> whatever Writelog is using.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ralph McClintock" <[hidden email]>
> To: "W3FPR - Don Wilhelm" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 3:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW Keying characteristics-computer vs Bencher
>
>
> > Don,
> > The computer generates an on-off. Writelog does not allow any adjustment
> > of
> > keying characteristics. The Bencher generates an open or ground. Why

does
> > the K2 recognize the Bencher, a mechanical switch, as soft and why does
it

> > recognize the computer as hard?
> > Ralph W1ZK
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "W3FPR - Don Wilhelm" <[hidden email]>
> > To: "Ralph McClintock" <[hidden email]>
> > Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 7:10 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW Keying characteristics-computer vs Bencher
> >
> >
> >> Ralph,
> >>
> >> There is little to nothing that one can do to alter the keying

waveshape
> >> from the outside of the K2, so you are likely hearing something
different
> >> than the keying waveshape.
> >>
> >> How does the computer program handle the keying 'weight' - I would
expect
> >> that to be the difference you hear.  Change the weighting
characteristic

> > in
> >> the program to something different (if the program allows you to change
> > it)
> >> just to see - and then set whatever you desire.
> >>
> >> 73,
> >> Don W3FPR
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >>
> >> I finally hooked up my computer keying circuit, 2N2222 off the parallel
> >> port, to my K2 before the CQWW contest. I have noticed what appears to

be
> > a
> >> significant difference in the keying characteristic from the computer
> > versus
> >> the keying from the Bencher key. The computer appears to have a
> >> significantly harder characteristic than the Bencher. This is observed
in

> >> the sidetone as I have not checked it with a 2nd receiver. Has anyone
> >> else
> >> noticed this phenomenon?
> >> tnx & 73's,
> >> Ralph W1ZK
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

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