CW Mistakes
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Before I get on the air. What are some of the most common errors for
beginning CW Operators. Thanks -- Frank KD8FIP _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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At 04:26 PM 25/04/08, you wrote:
>Before I get on the air. What are some of the most common errors for >beginning CW Operators. Thanks Hi Frank, No such things as CW errors....the biggest error is not getting on. I've been at it for 50 years and still have problems. Some day maybe I'll be error free, but I doubt it. Dive in! John k7up _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Hi Frank
I agree with John, there is no bigger mistake than shying away because of fear or worries. I think there is a cycle to this as in life, you start out a bit rough, get refined then senility hits and then who cares! Really, there are more great operators that will be more than willing to work with you and before you know it you will be one of the guy's that help others. Get your feet wet and you will soon discover how fun cw is. Werner N8BB 41 years of cw only -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of John Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 6:33 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW Mistakes At 04:26 PM 25/04/08, you wrote: >Before I get on the air. What are some of the most common errors for >beginning CW Operators. Thanks Hi Frank, No such things as CW errors....the biggest error is not getting on. I've been at it for 50 years and still have problems. Some day maybe I'll be error free, but I doubt it. Dive in! John k7up _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1397 - Release Date: 4/25/2008 7:42 AM _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Frank MacDonell
Failure to zero-beat when answering a call. This is one that many veteran's also fail on. Once you get the hang of it, you can easily and quickly get within 10 cycles of the other station. Eric N3EF --- On Fri, 4/25/08, Frank MacDonell <[hidden email]> wrote: > From: Frank MacDonell <[hidden email]> > Subject: [Elecraft] CW Mistakes > To: [hidden email] > Date: Friday, April 25, 2008, 6:26 PM > Before I get on the air. What are some of the most common > errors for > beginning CW Operators. Thanks > > -- > Frank KD8FIP > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Frank MacDonell
Frank
Is you question related to errors am Elecraft rig in CW mode or CW in general? It seems like a rather vague question. Of course this is generating a lot of answers. Steve Ellington [hidden email] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank MacDonell" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 6:26 PM Subject: [Elecraft] CW Mistakes > Before I get on the air. What are some of the most common errors for > beginning CW Operators. Thanks > > -- > Frank KD8FIP > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1397 - Release Date: 4/25/2008 > 7:42 AM > > Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Frank MacDonell
Frank,
One of the biggest mistakes I've seen over the years is new operators trying to send too fast, in other words much faster than you can comfortably copy. Most cw operators will try to answer a CQ at (or close to) the speed at which it is sent. If you try to send too fast the other op will most likely answer at that speed which, if it is faster than you can comfortably copy will make for an uneasy qso on your part and tend to make you want to cut it a short, thereby depriving yourself and the other op an opportunity to have a nice ragchew.. Just my 2 cents.. 73 and welcome to CW, I hope you find it enjoyable and make it a favorite mode of operation Tim NZ8J -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Frank MacDonell Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 6:27 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: [Elecraft] CW Mistakes Before I get on the air. What are some of the most common errors for beginning CW Operators. Thanks -- Frank KD8FIP _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by fairbank56
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In reply to this post by Frank MacDonell
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In reply to this post by Frank MacDonell
In a message dated 4/25/08 6:27:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [hidden email]
writes: > What are some of the most common errors for > beginning CW Operators. WELCOME! In no particular order: 1) Not getting on the air. While it is a good idea to do some practice off-air and get some basic skills down, you don't need to be an "expert" to make lots of CW contacts and have lots of fun. 2) Sending too fast for the situation. 3) Expecting too much too soon. 4) Trying to use a rig that's not very good for CW (doesn't apply to Elecraft rigs!) 5) Not being familiar with abbreviations and procedures. Make a list of the common ones and have it handy. Listen to a few QSOs and get the general idea of how it's done. 6) Not asking questions or requesting help. (you've avoided this one!) 73 es GL de Jim, N2EY ************** Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by AC7AC
I think Ron has hit quite a few key things below.
One of the things I find VERY lacking is, no one has taught some of the "newbies" to CW the "proper" protocol of procedures that used to be taught. Exchanges omit a lot of stuff no doubt copying procedures common in contests. A few examples are people calling CQ 5-10 times and DE their callsign once or twice, then repeat this procedure again 1-2 times! Another common thing is after I call a CQ thusly: CQ CQ CQ DE W5TVW W5TVW W5TVW K. I hear someone usually a little off frequency, delayed a bit and among other stations 1-2 khz. away just send: W1ABC. This can be VERY annoying. Is this station calling me? Why didn't he AT LEAST send: W5TVW DE W1ABC K? Stations sending a 3 X 3 CQ call ending in KN! Is this because ARRL saw fit to stop putting this information in the "Handbook" and make more money selling you another "operating" manual? They used to publish a concise small booklet with proper CW procedures, the "Q" code, abbreviations and other niceties for 10-25 cents. Most of the time they would send one to you free if you requested it. It was sort of a "Manners & etiquette" book for the radio amateur. Some of the new "band expanded" Technician guys are trying their hand at really doing some CW operation. There isn't a plethora of old timers around these days who teach them what's polite and what's impolite. I agree wholeheartedly about people trying to send too fast, skimping on inter word spacing, garbled or badly timed sending and mistakes galore. If you slow these guys down a bit, most of them send very copyable CW without all the mistakes. There are a lot of newer hams out there really trying and I think they should be encouraged to preserve our now ancient art of Morse telegraphy....which is, by the way....still very useful in spite of it's antiquity! 73, Sandy W5TVW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]> To: "'Frank MacDonell'" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]> Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 7:02 PM Subject: RE: [Elecraft] CW Mistakes Yep, there are no mistakes bigger than: 1) Being afraid to get on. 2) Letting a self-important bad operator discourage you because he/she can't or won't QRS to your speed or tells you that you don't have the skills to get on CW, or to operate on a specific band. (I worked a guy who told me he never used 20 meter CW because he was told by some idiot that it was a expert operator's band and folks there didn't tolerate anything less!) The rule is that the Amateur Bands were created for "newbies". That's one reason why we call it "Amateur": You don't have to pass a professional competency test to get on the air. Let's turn it around and point out good operating practices. These apply to newbies and OTs alike. (One of the advantages of having been pounding brass for well over half a century is that I have personal experience with both.) 2. Send at the speed at which you can copy well. 3. Within your range, always match the other station's speed. 4. Listen and listen. After CQ, listen all AROUND your frequency, especially if you're near one of the QRP "watering holes" (e.g. 7030, 7040, 14060, etc.). There are a significant number of crystal controlled rigs out there who can't "zero beat" you. Also some simple rigs don't compensate for their receive BFO offset, so they're several hundred Hz off their transmitting frequency. And there are those still trying to figure out the controls on their rig ;-) 5. If you missed something, don't be afraid to ask for a repeat. 6. Give HONEST signal reports. If the other guy doesn't like it, he's not worth your time anyway. I get my OT ire up when some guy says my sig is 589 but too weak to copy well! (That's often excused by saying he has a huge QRN level. That's fine, but then the R - readability - is NOT 5. The correct report might be "389 hvy QRN OM". 7. Remember that the T in RST refers to modulation on the station's carrier, not to chirp, clicks or any other aberrations. If present, they deserve separate comment. A station with chirp might have a signal report of 569C meaning a clean tone but chirp. If anything else is amiss please tell the guy in plain text (that's true for phone too). Did you notice that I skipped number 1? That's because it's too important to put anywhere but last: 1. Have fun! Ron AC7AC -----Original Message----- Before I get on the air. What are some of the most common errors for beginning CW Operators. Thanks -- Frank KD8FIP _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1397 - Release Date: 4/25/2008 7:42 AM _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Frank MacDonell
Practice a bit with a partner, or a recording device.
It is very important to get the spacing between elements, letters, and words correct. A bad fist will not attract as many QSOs as a good one. Sloppy sending, or a fist with too much swing is a genuine pain to copy. A good fist is a thing of beauty that everyone will appreciate. Carl WA7CS |
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In reply to this post by Frank MacDonell
In a recent message, Frank MacDonell <[hidden email]> wrote ...
>Before I get on the air. What are some of the most common errors for >beginning CW Operators. Thanks The biggest mistake, Frank, is not going on the air and having QSOs on the key. Once you have learnt the code alphabet go on the air and work someone (maybe a local friend) and practice in that way. Eventually, your speed build up and you will feel more and more confident. Without realising it, you will be having contacts at 20wpm. One of the misconceptions is that you have to get up to speed before daring to put your CW on the air. One reads so many times about people "working on their Morse" and continue working on SSB until they get up to speed. They will fail, and will be "working on their Morse" for many months (or even years) to come. Plug in your key, Frank, and have a QSO. 73 -- David G4DMP Leeds, England, UK ------ _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Frank MacDonell
Just one thing I can think of that hasn't already been mentioned:-
...Try to avoid the temptation of sending from a pre-written sheet of words; that way you send from your head just like speaking normally and inter-word spaces appear naturally. Sending from a sheet of words will probably cause you send everything in one long string with no gaps - and that, even after many years of cw still gives me loads of problems copying. Some have said listen to a few cw contacts on air to get the hang of things - I would say listen to loads, and loads and loads of contacts and you will learn lots. I still listen after 20+ years to improve my reading etc, you should never stop. .....and no-one never makes mistakes...... 73 and have fun ofcourse, Stewart Rolfe, GW0ETF
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In reply to this post by Frank MacDonell
In a message dated 4/25/08 8:08:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [hidden email]
writes: > 2) Letting a self-important bad operator discourage you because he/she > can't > or won't QRS to your speed or tells you that you don't have the skills to > get on CW, or to operate on a specific band. (I worked a guy who told me he > never used 20 meter CW because he was told by some idiot that it was a > expert operator's band and folks there didn't tolerate anything less!) It seems to me that a true "expert" is able to operate effectively at both low and high speeds, with both experienced and inexperienced operators at the other end. So if someone won't/can't QRS for a beginner, it says more about that person's skills than it does about the beginner. IMHO 73 de Jim, N2EY ************** Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Another CW question (was: CW Mistakes)
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In reply to this post by w5tvw
To be very honest, I have not used CW much. I used it a bit when I got
my first tech ticket in 1976 but not much since then. Now I find myself teaching it to my students. I am finding this discussion on CW mistakes to be WAY off-topic for this list but WAY useful too. I do have the ARRL operating manual and I am using that to start to guide the kids through proper procedures. On voice they have cue cards with pieces of the QSO they can use; i.e. how to call CQ, how to answer a call, how to give a signal report, how to "brag" the station, how to clear, etc.; and that has helped them a lot. I bet that cue cards for a CW QSO would be really helpful to noobs as well. Put the most-used abbreviations and Q-sigs on there for reference. My question concerns the use of Farnsworth sending on-the-air, i.e. sending the letters at a much faster speed than the overall rate and then inserting greater spacing between letters and words. Is that an OK-practice for working new CW ops or should I have the kids slow down the keyer so that all intra-element, intra-word, and inter-word spacing is proper? As soon as they can send/copy 5WPM I plan to push them to actually get on-the-air to have some CW QSOs. I want to be sure I am giving them good advice. -- 73 de Brian, WB6RQN Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by GW0ETF
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Re: Another CW question (was: CW Mistakes)
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In reply to this post by Brian Lloyd-6
Comments inline...
On Saturday 26 April 2008 10:39:33 am Brian Lloyd wrote: > I do have the ARRL operating manual and I am using that to start to > guide the kids through proper procedures. On voice they have cue cards > with pieces of the QSO they can use; i.e. how to call CQ, how to > answer a call, how to give a signal report, how to "brag" the station, > how to clear, etc.; and that has helped them a lot. I bet that cue > cards for a CW QSO would be really helpful to noobs as well. Put the > most-used abbreviations and Q-sigs on there for reference. Yes, a good idea. I used that many times with new ops. Another thing that helps them get over the on-air jitters is having an experienced op sitting somewhere else in the room reading the mail. Then they can relax and ask the occasional, what did he say? question to the other op in the room, it lets them relax and enjoy the QSO. It isn't long and they won't need the crutch. > My question concerns the use of Farnsworth sending on-the-air, i.e. > sending the letters at a much faster speed than the overall rate and > then inserting greater spacing between letters and words. Is that an > OK-practice for working new CW ops or should I have the kids slow down > the keyer so that all intra-element, intra-word, and inter-word > spacing is proper? Yes. Character spacing needs to be right for proper sent CW. So set the keyer spacing and timing for the speed in question. Still, think about a hand key. I have used the Farnsworth method in teaching CW before, and it is faster as far as getting to the speed you used to need to get a ticket and get the CW testing done with. But if you really understand CW, the plateaus that all of us who learned the old fashioned way had to go through were just learning the language of CW at the different speeds. If you learned it right it was about the sound of the character, the rhythm of it, and not anything else. That changes as the speed changes. So anyone learning via Farnsworth spacing, can't necessarily slow down and operate anywhere in between with out going through the learning experience eventually. It's easier I think after you know CW faster. But you really don't know 20 wpm CW if you space it down to 8 wpm via Farnsworth. As for me, it's choppy and disconnected. I don't like to listen to it. I'll QSO an op like that, but I won't enjoy it as much as properly spaced CW. Even slow, properly spaced CW just flows along. > As soon as they can send/copy 5WPM I plan to push them to actually get > on-the-air to have some CW QSOs. I want to be sure I am giving them > good advice. Yes, that's the best. For me and those I've taught, I don't recommend using a keyer until the speed is over about 15 wpm, with real spacing. Part of the whole experience is knowing how to send by hand, and at slower speeds that just works best and is less nerve wracking with a hand key. There are a lot less mistakes in sending that way too. And it helps avoid sending too fast, faster than you can receive. Having to learn a keyer and making tons of sending mistakes is just something else a new CW op doesn't need to worry about. Get them on the air and start having nice slow QSOs with properly spaced CW and the speed will go up on it's own. You give me a CQ from a slow sender using a hand key, and he'll get an answer from me every time. No matter how long it takes to complete the QSO. Rick Kunath, k9ao _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Brian Lloyd-6
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Re: Another CW question (was: CW Mistakes)
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This is a great thread. Beats the hell out of 100 E-Mails over 3 days
because someone is not happy with an Elecraft rig and gives it a 4.0 at E-Ham. Best, DW Holtman WB7SSN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]> To: "'elecraft Reflector'" <[hidden email]> Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 9:10 AM Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Another CW question (was: CW Mistakes) Brian wrote: I am finding this discussion on CW mistakes to be WAY off-topic for this list but WAY useful too. ----------------------------- With respect, I don't think it's "off-topic": The list moderator, Eric, as repeatedly said that anything to do with getting on the air and operating on the Ham bands is *on topic* for this list. Especially if it's something one might do with an Elecraft product, it has always been welcome. That has certainly been the case over the eight years I've followed the discussions here. Some topics take on a life of their own and start going "around in circles", and in those cases Eric will, eventually, call a halt to it. And he's quick to step on posts that seem impolite or which criticize others, which I greatly appreciate. I agree with you, Brian; such discussions can be "WAY useful too" which I why I read them, sometimes participate in them, and always appreciate that they are welcome here. Ron AC7AC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Frank MacDonell
I'd like to add to the list of big mistakes:
Learning to translate dits and dahs into letters and other characters. Slow code encourages translation! Learning code from a book or other visual source. (Not including learning about code from a book such as Pierpont: The Art & Skill of Radio Telegraphy). Starting after age 50. <Grin>. Rich NU6T _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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