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CW Mush

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Peter Chamalian W1RM

CW Mush

My K3S is turning CW into mush. Huge pile ups as K2D are really hard to
deal with. Any suggestions other than get a K4 which I have on order?

Pete, W1RM

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Don Wilhelm

Re: CW Mush

Pete,

Go to my website www.w3fpr.com and look at the "Noisy K3" article. It
will help you adjust your AGC settings to help combat the mush.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/2/2020 5:34 PM, Peter Chamalian wrote:
> My K3S is turning CW into mush. Huge pile ups as K2D are really hard to
> deal with. Any suggestions other than get a K4 which I have on order?
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Nr4c

Re: CW Mush

In reply to this post by Peter Chamalian W1RM

You might turn AGC OFF or experiment with AGC settings.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Jul 2, 2020, at 5:36 PM, Peter Chamalian <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> My K3S is turning CW into mush. Huge pile ups as K2D are really hard to
> deal with. Any suggestions other than get a K4 which I have on order?
>
>
>
>
>
> Pete, W1RM
>
> [hidden email]
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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David Gilbert-2

Re: CW Mush

In reply to this post by Peter Chamalian W1RM

What are your AGC settings? I have a K3 with the new synths and I use
almost the least AGC possible ... THR = 12 and SLP = 000.

AGC creates non-linearity, the non-linearity is most pronounced at the
signal level where it kicks in, and non-linearity creates mixing. Do
the math for the sum and difference frequencies when you have multiple
signals very close to each other within the receive passband.

73,
Dave AB7E

On 7/2/2020 2:34 PM, Peter Chamalian wrote:

> My K3S is turning CW into mush. Huge pile ups as K2D are really hard to
> deal with. Any suggestions other than get a K4 which I have on order?
>
>
>
>
>
> Pete, W1RM
>
> [hidden email]
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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TKNorris

Re: CW Mush

Excuse my ignorance Don, does your K3 AGC, etc. article also apply to a
K3S? I assume it does, maybe receiver advice & tips I've missed along the
way?
Thanks,
Tom NB5Q

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 4:20 PM David Gilbert <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> What are your AGC settings? I have a K3 with the new synths and I use
> almost the least AGC possible ... THR = 12 and SLP = 000.
>
> AGC creates non-linearity, the non-linearity is most pronounced at the
> signal level where it kicks in, and non-linearity creates mixing. Do
> the math for the sum and difference frequencies when you have multiple
> signals very close to each other within the receive passband.
>
> 73,
> Dave AB7E
>
>
> On 7/2/2020 2:34 PM, Peter Chamalian wrote:
> > My K3S is turning CW into mush. Huge pile ups as K2D are really hard to
> > deal with. Any suggestions other than get a K4 which I have on order?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Pete, W1RM
> >
> > [hidden email]
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Dick Dickinson

Re: CW Mush

In reply to this post by Peter Chamalian W1RM

My K3S is turning CW into mush. Huge pile ups as K2D are really hard to

deal with. Any suggestions other than get a K4 which I have on order?

Pete, W1RM

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

Suggestion - Look into other facets of amateur radio where 'content' is
emphasized more than 'contact.'

As ever,

Dick - KA5KKT

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TKNorris

Re: CW Mush

In reply to this post by TKNorris

Boy, if I had thoroughly read the original post I would have seen you were
answering a question regarding a K3S! Humbling, and a reminder to slow down
and read the posts! I just wish I had a K4 coming ;-)
Tom NB5Q

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 4:44 PM Tom NB5Q <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Excuse my ignorance Don, does your K3 AGC, etc. article also apply to a
> K3S? I assume it does, maybe receiver advice & tips I've missed along the
> way?
> Thanks,
> Tom NB5Q
>
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 4:20 PM David Gilbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> What are your AGC settings? I have a K3 with the new synths and I use
>> almost the least AGC possible ... THR = 12 and SLP = 000.
>>
>> AGC creates non-linearity, the non-linearity is most pronounced at the
>> signal level where it kicks in, and non-linearity creates mixing. Do
>> the math for the sum and difference frequencies when you have multiple
>> signals very close to each other within the receive passband.
>>
>> 73,
>> Dave AB7E
>>
>>
>> On 7/2/2020 2:34 PM, Peter Chamalian wrote:
>> > My K3S is turning CW into mush. Huge pile ups as K2D are really hard to
>> > deal with. Any suggestions other than get a K4 which I have on order?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Pete, W1RM
>> >
>> > [hidden email]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ______________________________________________________________
>> > Elecraft mailing list
>> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>> >
>> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>
>

Wes Stewart-2

Re: CW Mush

In reply to this post by David Gilbert-2

Please explain to me where this non-linearity is generated. If 1 volt of RF
(really I-F) gain reduction causes 10 dB of gain reduction, prey tell what
difference does it make if the 1 volt is generated by an AGC circuit or a manual
control? Either way, *all* signals are reduced 10 dB. What's non-linear about that?

Wes N7WS

On 7/2/2020 3:18 PM, David Gilbert wrote:

>
>
> What are your AGC settings? I have a K3 with the new synths and I use almost
> the least AGC possible ... THR = 12 and SLP = 000.
>
> AGC creates non-linearity, the non-linearity is most pronounced at the signal
> level where it kicks in, and non-linearity creates mixing. Do the math for
> the sum and difference frequencies when you have multiple signals very close
> to each other within the receive passband.
>
> 73,
> Dave AB7E

Ted Edwards W3TB

Re: CW Mush

This is VERY interesting.
I have never even thought much about AGC in my 8-year old K3, so I did that
just now.
I changed the THR to 12 and the SLP tp 003. Will watch for the difference.
I am really a CW operator here.

Thanks for the good wisdom!

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 7:10 PM Wes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Please explain to me where this non-linearity is generated. If 1 volt of
> RF
> (really I-F) gain reduction causes 10 dB of gain reduction, prey tell what
> difference does it make if the 1 volt is generated by an AGC circuit or a
> manual
> control? Either way, *all* signals are reduced 10 dB. What's non-linear
> about that?
>
> Wes N7WS
>
> On 7/2/2020 3:18 PM, David Gilbert wrote:
> >
> >
> > What are your AGC settings? I have a K3 with the new synths and I use
> almost
> > the least AGC possible ... THR = 12 and SLP = 000.
> >
> > AGC creates non-linearity, the non-linearity is most pronounced at the
> signal
> > level where it kicks in, and non-linearity creates mixing. Do the math
> for
> > the sum and difference frequencies when you have multiple signals very
> close
> > to each other within the receive passband.
> >
> > 73,
> > Dave AB7E
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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--
73 de Ted Edwards, W3TB and GØPWW

and thinking about operating CW:
"Do today what others won't,
so you can do tomorrow what others can't."
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Bob Wilson, N6TV

Re: CW Mush

In reply to this post by Peter Chamalian W1RM

See also

http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Receiver-mush-td7627277.html#a7627323

73,
Bob, N6TV

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020, 2:34 PM Peter Chamalian <[hidden email]> wrote:

Gary K9GS-2

Re: CW Mush

In reply to this post by Dick Dickinson

<snip>Suggestion - Look into other facets of amateur radio where 'content' isemphasized more than 'contact.'<snip> Really? As ever,Dick - KA5KKT ______________________________________________________________Elecraft mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:[hidden email] list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to [hidden email]
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Gary K9GS-2

Re: CW Mush

In reply to this post by Peter Chamalian W1RM

Should have signed my call.73,Gary K9GS
-------- Original message --------From: Gary K9GS <[hidden email]> Date: 7/2/20 7:39 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Dick Dickinson <[hidden email]>, [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW Mush <snip>Suggestion - Look into other facets of amateur radio where 'content' isemphasized more than 'contact.'<snip> Really? As ever,Dick - KA5KKT ______________________________________________________________Elecraft mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:[hidden email] list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________Elecraft mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:[hidden email] list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to [hidden email]
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David Gilbert-2

Re: CW Mush

In reply to this post by Wes Stewart-2

Unless I'm misunderstanding something here, the answer to your question
is pretty basic. There is a kink in the curve where the AGC kicks in.
Signals that traverse that kink see a nonlinearity.

I set the threshhold pretty high, and I set the slope as low as I can in
order to minimize the amount of that kink.

Dave AB7E

On 7/2/2020 5:09 PM, Wes wrote:

> Please explain to me where this non-linearity is generated. If 1 volt
> of RF (really I-F) gain reduction causes 10 dB of gain reduction, prey
> tell what difference does it make if the 1 volt is generated by an AGC
> circuit or a manual control? Either way, *all* signals are reduced 10
> dB. What's non-linear about that?
>
> Wes N7WS
>
> On 7/2/2020 3:18 PM, David Gilbert wrote:
>>
>>
>> What are your AGC settings? I have a K3 with the new synths and I
>> use almost the least AGC possible ... THR = 12 and SLP = 000.
>>
>> AGC creates non-linearity, the non-linearity is most pronounced at
>> the signal level where it kicks in, and non-linearity creates
>> mixing. Do the math for the sum and difference frequencies when you
>> have multiple signals very close to each other within the receive
>> passband.
>>
>> 73,
>> Dave AB7E
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Peter Chamalian W1RM

Re: CW Mush

In reply to this post by Bob Wilson, N6TV

Thanks Bob. I set my AGC SLP to 5 and thr to 14 and it helps. I’ll have to play with your values and see if it’s better.

My RF gain is at 3 o’clock.

Pete, W1RM

[hidden email]

From: Bob Wilson, N6TV <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2020 8:34 PM
To: Peter Chamalian <[hidden email]>
Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW Mush

See also

http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Receiver-mush-td7627277.html#a7627323

73,
Bob, N6TV

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020, 2:34 PM Peter Chamalian <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]> > wrote:

My K3S is turning CW into mush. Huge pile ups as K2D are really hard to
deal with. Any suggestions other than get a K4 which I have on order?

Pete, W1RM

[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>

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Elecraft mailing list

P3 FW upgrade failure - help needed

Hey guys, accidentally hit the “Send all firmware to P3” instead of “Send all NEW firmware to P3” and I keep getting “Block 657 write failed” for all the “FPGA” updates. Tried it twice same result. Any thoughts?

P3 seems to work just fine. Added the SVGA board this afternoon. Just want to get this thing to be happy.

73,
Michael
KK6RWK

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Don Wilhelm

Re: CW Mush

In reply to this post by TKNorris

Dave,

Yes, it applies to the K3/K3S, KX2 and KX3.
Try it, it works. I don't know if it will cure the particular CW Mush
that you are hearing, but it is a good starting point.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/2/2020 6:44 PM, Tom NB5Q wrote:

> Excuse my ignorance Don, does your K3 AGC, etc. article also apply to a
> K3S? I assume it does, maybe receiver advice & tips I've missed along the
> way?
> Thanks,
> Tom NB5Q
>
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 4:20 PM David Gilbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> What are your AGC settings? I have a K3 with the new synths and I use
>> almost the least AGC possible ... THR = 12 and SLP = 000.
>>
>> AGC creates non-linearity, the non-linearity is most pronounced at the
>> signal level where it kicks in, and non-linearity creates mixing. Do
>> the math for the sum and difference frequencies when you have multiple
>> signals very close to each other within the receive passband.
>>
>> 73,
>> Dave AB7E
>>
>>
>> On 7/2/2020 2:34 PM, Peter Chamalian wrote:
>>> My K3S is turning CW into mush. Huge pile ups as K2D are really hard to
>>> deal with. Any suggestions other than get a K4 which I have on order?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Pete, W1RM
>>>
>>> [hidden email]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
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>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

Dave Sublette-2

Re: CW Mush

Well I didn't see what band it was on. If below 20M, the preamp should be
off and maybe attenuator on. Also the RF gain should be backed off.

Dave, K4TO

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 10:24 PM Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dave,
>
> Yes, it applies to the K3/K3S, KX2 and KX3.
> Try it, it works. I don't know if it will cure the particular CW Mush
> that you are hearing, but it is a good starting point.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 7/2/2020 6:44 PM, Tom NB5Q wrote:
> > Excuse my ignorance Don, does your K3 AGC, etc. article also apply to a
> > K3S? I assume it does, maybe receiver advice & tips I've missed along
> the
> > way?
> > Thanks,
> > Tom NB5Q
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 4:20 PM David Gilbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> What are your AGC settings? I have a K3 with the new synths and I use
> >> almost the least AGC possible ... THR = 12 and SLP = 000.
> >>
> >> AGC creates non-linearity, the non-linearity is most pronounced at the
> >> signal level where it kicks in, and non-linearity creates mixing. Do
> >> the math for the sum and difference frequencies when you have multiple
> >> signals very close to each other within the receive passband.
> >>
> >> 73,
> >> Dave AB7E
> >>
> >>
> >> On 7/2/2020 2:34 PM, Peter Chamalian wrote:
> >>> My K3S is turning CW into mush. Huge pile ups as K2D are really hard
> to
> >>> deal with. Any suggestions other than get a K4 which I have on order?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Pete, W1RM
> >>>
> >>> [hidden email]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ______________________________________________________________
> >>> Elecraft mailing list
> >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>>
> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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> >
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Don Wilhelm

Re: CW Mush

In reply to this post by Wes Stewart-2

Wes,

All I know is that increasing the AGC threshold and setting the slope to
something other than the default will help. I don't know where the
non-linerity is happening, and I suspect something more is going on than
just non-linearity.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/2/2020 8:09 PM, Wes wrote:
> Please explain to me where this non-linearity is generated. If 1 volt of
> RF (really I-F) gain reduction causes 10 dB of gain reduction, prey tell
> what difference does it make if the 1 volt is generated by an AGC
> circuit or a manual control? Either way, *all* signals are reduced 10
> dB. What's non-linear about that?
>
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George Winship, NC5G

Re: CW Mush

In reply to this post by Peter Chamalian W1RM

<My K3S is turning CW into mush. >

Is your NB on? If it is, turn it off and see if it helps.

73, George

--
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Barry

Re: CW Mush

Try some ATT.

Barry W2UP

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