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CW keyer issues

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Barry

CW keyer issues

For many years, I've used the Island keyer II (in CMOS Superkeyer III
emulation mode), the CMOS Superkeyer III, and prior to that the VVF
Accu-keyer.

I find with the K3 keyer, I tend to miss trailing dits, particularly
with iambic character like C, presumably due to differences in timing,
such as the dot memory. I guess the solution is going back to my
external keyer. Wonder if many others have had this experience?

Barry W2UP

--

Barry Kutner, W2UP Lakewood, CO

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Andrew Moore-3

Re: CW keyer issues

> I find with the K3 keyer, I tend to miss trailing dits, particularly with
iambic character like C, presumably due to differences in timing

Have you tried both Iambic A and Iambic B settings on the K3, via the
configuration menu?
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n7ws

Re: CW keyer issues

In reply to this post by Barry

In answer to your last two comments, yes and yes.

Although I passed a 20 wpm test in front of an FCC examiner, I'll confess to not being much of a CW op. Nevertheless, with my TS-870 and its built-in Accukeyer I send nearly flawless CW. With the K3---well if I haven't programmed the message with the utility, I don't send it.

I suppose it's me, but I thought the object of electronic keyers was to improve sending, not make it worse. So I have what is arguably the finest CW rig around and what do I do with it? I took up RTTY.

Overly harsh? Perhaps, but it seems like this is something that could be fixed in software. That's the point of SDR, right?

Wes N M S W S.....N 7 W S

--- On Mon, 9/20/10, Barry <[hidden email]> wrote:

> For many years, I've used the
> Island keyer II (in CMOS Superkeyer III
> emulation mode), the CMOS Superkeyer III, and prior to that
> the VVF
> Accu-keyer.
>
> I find with the K3 keyer, I tend to miss trailing dits,
> particularly
> with iambic character like C, presumably due to differences
> in timing,
> such as the dot memory. I guess the solution is going
> back to my
> external keyer. Wonder if many others have had this
> experience?
>
> Barry W2UP
>
> --

Steve Ellington

Re: CW keyer issues

The keyer in the TS-870 is a Logic Keyer (K1). You could buy a Logic Keyer
and probably some emulation that fits you better.

The keyer in the K3 is as good as I've seen. I understand it emulates the
Curtis keyer which is my favorite. I've had the TS-870 and many others and I
find them all easy to use up to my limit of coordination about 35 wpm then I
start making mistakes. The only internal keyer I couldn't use was the one in
the Omni 6.
It could be that you are sensitive to sidetone delay or echos in the room.
Have you tried using headphones?
Steve N4LQ

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wes Stewart" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>; "Barry" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW keyer issues

In answer to your last two comments, yes and yes.

Although I passed a 20 wpm test in front of an FCC examiner, I'll confess to
not being much of a CW op. Nevertheless, with my TS-870 and its built-in
Accukeyer I send nearly flawless CW. With the K3---well if I haven't
programmed the message with the utility, I don't send it.

I suppose it's me, but I thought the object of electronic keyers was to
improve sending, not make it worse. So I have what is arguably the finest
CW rig around and what do I do with it? I took up RTTY.

Overly harsh? Perhaps, but it seems like this is something that could be
fixed in software. That's the point of SDR, right?

Wes N M S W S.....N 7 W S

--- On Mon, 9/20/10, Barry <[hidden email]> wrote:

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n7ws

Re: CW keyer issues

Yes. I set mine to emulate the Accukeyer.

--- On Mon, 9/20/10, Steve Ellington <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The keyer in the TS-870 is a Logic
> Keyer (K1).

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Vic K2VCO

Re: CW keyer issues

In reply to this post by Barry

I use the Logikey K3. I've tried the internal K3 keyer numerous times, but I always go
back to the Logikey. I make fewer errors with it.

On 9/20/2010 6:49 AM, Barry wrote:

> For many years, I've used the Island keyer II (in CMOS Superkeyer III
> emulation mode), the CMOS Superkeyer III, and prior to that the VVF
> Accu-keyer.
>
> I find with the K3 keyer, I tend to miss trailing dits, particularly
> with iambic character like C, presumably due to differences in timing,
> such as the dot memory. I guess the solution is going back to my
> external keyer. Wonder if many others have had this experience?
>
> Barry W2UP

--
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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Nick Kennedy

Re: K3 CW keyer issues

In reply to this post by n7ws

Hmmm ... I'm a 99% CW operator and I find the K3's built-in keyer to
be excellent, free of misfires and glitches for the most part. I'd use
one of my fine external keyers if there was a need, but there's not.

Over the years I've used the Accu-Keyer, the AEA Contester, and the
Super CMOS II, all fine keyers, and I find the K3's keyer to have a very
similar feel.

I will say that I have had the K3's keyer misfire or hesitate while the
K3 was being bombarded with serial interchanges from HRD and/or N1MM.
This surprised me because I thought the keyer would have a very high
priority. But it hasn't happened in many months and may have been a
glitch since eliminated in either the K3 or the external software I was
using.

73-

Nick, WA5BDU

On 9/20/2010 10:01 AM, Wes Stewart wrote:

> Nevertheless, with my TS-870 and its built-in Accukeyer I send nearly flawless CW. With the K3---well if I haven't programmed the message with the utility, I don't send it.
>
>
> --- On Mon, 9/20/10, Barry<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> For many years, I've used the
>> Island keyer II (in CMOS Superkeyer III
>> emulation mode), the CMOS Superkeyer III, and prior to that
>> the VVF
>> Accu-keyer.
>>
>> I find with the K3 keyer, I tend to miss trailing dits,

Guy, K2AV

Re: CW keyer issues

In reply to this post by Steve Ellington

Keying well is a partnership between the individual and one of a dozen
different keyer methods out there. The designer of a rig has to PICK a
few, or physically embed a proprietary chip. Proprietary methods cannot be
used in a manufactured unit without paying royalties or a license fee or
getting into copyright and lawsuit issues. Even Iambic A and Iambic B have
differing implementations.

The only keyer method out of all of those out there that I, personally, can
use well at all is the Ultimatic. Anything else is hopeless, even at slower
speeds. I simply cannot use any of the squeeze paddle techniques. I have
to deal with that as a separate issue from my transceiver. It is
unrealistic to expect a rig manufacturer to embed every possible choice of a
keyer algorithm in firmware. IF your favorite IS in there, LUCKY YOU. Just
don't start bragging.

I have to get my source of Ultimatic elsewhere. Don't bother me with how to
do XXXX. I've tried and tried and tried and tried for a quarter century to
learn the other stuff and, long after I should have, had the good sense to
just give it up and do what's necessary to get Ultimatic separately on the
shelf with WHATEVER rig I have, and be done with it. If a program has
Ultimatic embedded that's cool. But there's just no point EXPECTING it.

Yeah, it WOULD be neat if all dozen methods were on the menu. But somebody
who actually has to make a profit, to keep on manufacturing equipment and
paying expenses and salaries, has to make profitability choices. I'm really
surprised if I find Ultimatic in anything. If they never do anything else,
Microham won my eternal gratitude by putting Ultimatic in their MicroXXX
series.

I bought my transceiver because it could HEAR. Stuff that transmits is a
dime a dozen. Or you can go buy the Brooklyn Bridge in ham gear that still
can't RX. Stand alone keyers are even cheeper.

73, Guy.

On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Steve Ellington <[hidden email]>wrote:

> The keyer in the TS-870 is a Logic Keyer (K1). You could buy a Logic Keyer
> and probably some emulation that fits you better.
>
> The keyer in the K3 is as good as I've seen. I understand it emulates the
> Curtis keyer which is my favorite. I've had the TS-870 and many others and
> I
> find them all easy to use up to my limit of coordination about 35 wpm then
> I
> start making mistakes. The only internal keyer I couldn't use was the one
> in
> the Omni 6.
> It could be that you are sensitive to sidetone delay or echos in the room.
> Have you tried using headphones?
> Steve N4LQ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Wes Stewart" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>; "Barry" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 11:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW keyer issues
>
>
> In answer to your last two comments, yes and yes.
>
> Although I passed a 20 wpm test in front of an FCC examiner, I'll confess
> to
> not being much of a CW op. Nevertheless, with my TS-870 and its built-in
> Accukeyer I send nearly flawless CW. With the K3---well if I haven't
> programmed the message with the utility, I don't send it.
>
> I suppose it's me, but I thought the object of electronic keyers was to
> improve sending, not make it worse. So I have what is arguably the finest
> CW rig around and what do I do with it? I took up RTTY.
>
> Overly harsh? Perhaps, but it seems like this is something that could be
> fixed in software. That's the point of SDR, right?
>
> Wes N M S W S.....N 7 W S
>
> --- On Mon, 9/20/10, Barry <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > For many years, I've used the
> > Island keyer II (in CMOS Superkeyer III
> > emulation mode), the CMOS Superkeyer III, and prior to that
> > the VVF
> > Accu-keyer.
> >
> > I find with the K3 keyer, I tend to miss trailing dits,
> > particularly
> > with iambic character like C, presumably due to differences
> > in timing,
> > such as the dot memory. I guess the solution is going
> > back to my
> > external keyer. Wonder if many others have had this
> > experience?
> >
> > Barry W2UP
> >
> > --
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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>

GM4KGK

Re: CW keyer issues

In reply to this post by Barry

Barry
I had very similar problems when I first started using the internal K3
keyer after many happy years of using an outboard K1EL keyer with
various rigs.
I experienced great difficulty forming the letter "C", but perseverance
has more or less eliminated the problem. The K3 is obviously not so
tolerant of timing errors and if memory serves me right it took week or
two to get it right. BTW I use only Iambic Mode A.
Guess it's all a question of how long you are prepared to stick it out
until you find the timing that suits the K3.
73
Norman
GM4KGK

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Steve Ellington

Re: CW keyer issues

Mode A? No wonder you're having trouble with the letter C. Mode A can't
remember that last command. That is why I use mode B. The problem isn't the
K3's keyer.

Steve

----- Original Message -----
From: "N. Munro" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW keyer issues

> Barry
> I had very similar problems when I first started using the internal K3
> keyer after many happy years of using an outboard K1EL keyer with
> various rigs.
> I experienced great difficulty forming the letter "C", but perseverance
> has more or less eliminated the problem. The K3 is obviously not so
> tolerant of timing errors and if memory serves me right it took week or
> two to get it right. BTW I use only Iambic Mode A.
> Guess it's all a question of how long you are prepared to stick it out
> until you find the timing that suits the K3.
> 73
> Norman
> GM4KGK
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

GM4KGK

Re: CW keyer issues

/Mode A? No wonder you're having trouble with the letter C. Mode A can't
remember that last command. That is why I use mode B. The problem isn't the
K3's keyer.

Steve/

I'm sure Mode B is fine Steve, it just wasn't around when I started playing
with twin paddles.
The K3 keyer is fine too, I just had to adjust my lousy timing to suit.
73
Norman - GM4KGK

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