Elecraft

Can I rent a K4?

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John Harper

Can I rent a K4?

I wonder if this model would work?

Flex offers a refund for those who try one of their rigs and don't like it.
But a rental would pose less risk to the manufacturer.

There are (rumored) a small number of K4's in existence - the rest, of
course, are on hold. But regardless...even after full production has begun:

What if, before plunking down 4 kilodollars, I could rent the rig for two
weeks?

If I don't like it, I send it back to Elecraft and I'm only out the rental
fee and the cost to ship (renter pays shipping in both directions).

If I do like it, I keep the rig and pay the balance.

The rental fee would separate the serious potential buyers from those
simply wanting a two-week joyride. The question is, how much of a rental
fee would be acceptable for a company to offer such a business model?

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com
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Alan - G4GNX

Re: Can I rent a K4?

I can't see that working.

When a renter defaults and does a runner, Elecraft would have to layout
a lot in recovery fees and maybe even end up with a pile of junk for
their trouble.

It might work in a very small country or if they had a physical presence
in all states.

73,

Alan. G4GNX

------ Original Message ------
From: "John Harper" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft list" <[hidden email]>
Sent: 03/02/2021 17:20:47
Subject: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

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Eric Garner

Re: Can I rent a K4?

isn't that why most expensive things require a deposit to rent them?

Eric KI7LTT

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 9:32 AM Alan - G4GNX <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I can't see that working.
>
> When a renter defaults and does a runner, Elecraft would have to layout
> a lot in recovery fees and maybe even end up with a pile of junk for
> their trouble.
>
> It might work in a very small country or if they had a physical presence
> in all states.
>
> 73,
>
> Alan. G4GNX
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "John Harper" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Elecraft list" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: 03/02/2021 17:20:47
> Subject: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?
>
> >I wonder if this model would work?
> >
> >Flex offers a refund for those who try one of their rigs and don't like
> it.
> >But a rental would pose less risk to the manufacturer.
> >
> >There are (rumored) a small number of K4's in existence - the rest, of
> >course, are on hold. But regardless...even after full production has
> begun:
> >
> >What if, before plunking down 4 kilodollars, I could rent the rig for two
> >weeks?
> >
> >If I don't like it, I send it back to Elecraft and I'm only out the rental
> >fee and the cost to ship (renter pays shipping in both directions).
> >
> >If I do like it, I keep the rig and pay the balance.
> >
> >The rental fee would separate the serious potential buyers from those
> >simply wanting a two-week joyride. The question is, how much of a rental
> >fee would be acceptable for a company to offer such a business model?
> >
> >John AE5X
> >https://ae5x.blogspot.com
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>

Henry Pollock - K4TMC

Re: Can I rent a K4?

In reply to this post by John Harper

John,

I like the idea! It would be great to rent a K4 for a few weeks to see if
I want to replace my trusty K3+.

Better yet, it would be nice to get a K4 and K4HD at the same time!!

73,
Henry - K4TMC

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 12:22 PM John Harper <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I wonder if this model would work?
>
> Flex offers a refund for those who try one of their rigs and don't like it.
> But a rental would pose less risk to the manufacturer.
>
> There are (rumored) a small number of K4's in existence - the rest, of
> course, are on hold. But regardless...even after full production has begun:
>
> What if, before plunking down 4 kilodollars, I could rent the rig for two
> weeks?
>
> If I don't like it, I send it back to Elecraft and I'm only out the rental
> fee and the cost to ship (renter pays shipping in both directions).
>
> If I do like it, I keep the rig and pay the balance.
>
> The rental fee would separate the serious potential buyers from those
> simply wanting a two-week joyride. The question is, how much of a rental
> fee would be acceptable for a company to offer such a business model?
>
> John AE5X
> https://ae5x.blogspot.com
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Can I rent a K4?

In reply to this post by Eric Garner

No, the deposit is typically for damage and/or late charges.
Deposits are generally nowhere near to the replacement cost
of expensive equipment.

The real problem with rental returns ("B Stock") is that is can
no longer be sold as new resulting in a loss of value that is
often more than the rental proceeds.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2021-02-03 12:44 PM, Eric Garner wrote:

> isn't that why most expensive things require a deposit to rent them?
>
> Eric KI7LTT
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 9:32 AM Alan - G4GNX <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I can't see that working.
>>
>> When a renter defaults and does a runner, Elecraft would have to layout
>> a lot in recovery fees and maybe even end up with a pile of junk for
>> their trouble.
>>
>> It might work in a very small country or if they had a physical presence
>> in all states.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Alan. G4GNX
>>
>>
>> ------ Original Message ------
>> From: "John Harper" <[hidden email]>
>> To: "Elecraft list" <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: 03/02/2021 17:20:47
>> Subject: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?
>>
>>> I wonder if this model would work?
>>>
>>> Flex offers a refund for those who try one of their rigs and don't like
>> it.
>>> But a rental would pose less risk to the manufacturer.
>>>
>>> There are (rumored) a small number of K4's in existence - the rest, of
>>> course, are on hold. But regardless...even after full production has
>> begun:
>>>
>>> What if, before plunking down 4 kilodollars, I could rent the rig for two
>>> weeks?
>>>
>>> If I don't like it, I send it back to Elecraft and I'm only out the rental
>>> fee and the cost to ship (renter pays shipping in both directions).
>>>
>>> If I do like it, I keep the rig and pay the balance.
>>>
>>> The rental fee would separate the serious potential buyers from those
>>> simply wanting a two-week joyride. The question is, how much of a rental
>>> fee would be acceptable for a company to offer such a business model?
>>>
>>> John AE5X
>>> https://ae5x.blogspot.com
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
>

Mark Goldberg

Re: Can I rent a K4?

In reply to this post by Eric Garner

I can't see this as being a good business model. A company has finite
resources. If they spend time and money on a rental business, they
can't spend time and money on their core business. I'd much rather see
Elecraft build and ship as many K4s as possible than spend time and
money on a rental business. Add to that the possible fraud (rent with
a stolen credit card and abscond with the K4) and the need to fully
check out the unit after rental (people buy things on ebay, claim they
are broken and return a different, damaged item for a refund) they
would have to charge an exorbitant amount to not lose money.

If you really wanted to try one out, you could buy it, use it for a
while and then offer it for sale to someone else. With the K4 in such
demand, you may even be able to get more than list price for a gently
used one that can be purchased today.

73,

Mark
W7MLG

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 10:46 AM Eric Garner <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> isn't that why most expensive things require a deposit to rent them?
>
> Eric KI7LTT
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 9:32 AM Alan - G4GNX <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I can't see that working.
> >
> > When a renter defaults and does a runner, Elecraft would have to layout
> > a lot in recovery fees and maybe even end up with a pile of junk for
> > their trouble.
> >
> > It might work in a very small country or if they had a physical presence
> > in all states.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Alan. G4GNX
> >
> >
> > ------ Original Message ------
> > From: "John Harper" <[hidden email]>
> > To: "Elecraft list" <[hidden email]>
> > Sent: 03/02/2021 17:20:47
> > Subject: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?
> >
> > >I wonder if this model would work?
> > >
> > >Flex offers a refund for those who try one of their rigs and don't like
> > it.
> > >But a rental would pose less risk to the manufacturer.
> > >
> > >There are (rumored) a small number of K4's in existence - the rest, of
> > >course, are on hold. But regardless...even after full production has
> > begun:
> > >
> > >What if, before plunking down 4 kilodollars, I could rent the rig for two
> > >weeks?
> > >
> > >If I don't like it, I send it back to Elecraft and I'm only out the rental
> > >fee and the cost to ship (renter pays shipping in both directions).
> > >
> > >If I do like it, I keep the rig and pay the balance.
> > >
> > >The rental fee would separate the serious potential buyers from those
> > >simply wanting a two-week joyride. The question is, how much of a rental
> > >fee would be acceptable for a company to offer such a business model?
> > >
> > >John AE5X
> > >https://ae5x.blogspot.com
> > >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >
>
>
> --
> --Eric
> _________________________________________
> Eric Garner
> ______________________________________________________________
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Grant Youngman-2

Re: Can I rent a K4?

In reply to this post by Henry Pollock - K4TMC

Elecraft already has a reasonable return policy. It’s on the website. 30 days and a 10% restock fee (which may be more if you’ve bunged it up), since they’d most likely at least have to clean off your fingerprints and lord knows what else, refurbish and then resell it at a discount. And if you’ve run over it with a truck, dropped it in a river, or treated it to a dose of hamification, you’ll get your junked radio back instead of a refund. PS — it doesn’t apply to kits that have been partially or entirely built.

If you buy one and don’t like it, it should be pretty easy to find potential buyers willing to throw money in your direction …

Grant NQ5T

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George Thornton

Re: Can I rent a K4?

In reply to this post by Eric Garner

I think Elecraft has enough on its hands with COVID 19 just getting these rigs designed, updated, built and shipped.

I am not aware that any major manufacturer of HF amateur radio transceivers maintains an equipment rental program.

A rental program would be complex to administer. You would have to deal with insurance, shipping concerns and complaints that inevitably are part of such a program. Plus a legal team on hand to deal with problems that result from a rental experience gone bad. The program would have significant staffing requirements. I would think even if they were interested in offering this service, they have many more pressing concerns giving COVID 19.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Eric Garner
Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 9:45 AM
To: Elecraft list <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

isn't that why most expensive things require a deposit to rent them?

Eric KI7LTT

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 9:32 AM Alan - G4GNX <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I can't see that working.
>
> When a renter defaults and does a runner, Elecraft would have to
> layout a lot in recovery fees and maybe even end up with a pile of
> junk for their trouble.
>
> It might work in a very small country or if they had a physical
> presence in all states.
>
> 73,
>
> Alan. G4GNX
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "John Harper" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Elecraft list" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: 03/02/2021 17:20:47
> Subject: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?
>
> >I wonder if this model would work?
> >
> >Flex offers a refund for those who try one of their rigs and don't
> >like
> it.
> >But a rental would pose less risk to the manufacturer.
> >
> >There are (rumored) a small number of K4's in existence - the rest,
> >of course, are on hold. But regardless...even after full production
> >has
> begun:
> >
> >What if, before plunking down 4 kilodollars, I could rent the rig for
> >two weeks?
> >
> >If I don't like it, I send it back to Elecraft and I'm only out the
> >rental fee and the cost to ship (renter pays shipping in both directions).
> >
> >If I do like it, I keep the rig and pay the balance.
> >
> >The rental fee would separate the serious potential buyers from those
> >simply wanting a two-week joyride. The question is, how much of a
> >rental fee would be acceptable for a company to offer such a business model?
> >
> >John AE5X
> >https://ae5x.blogspot.com
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email]
>

--
--Eric
_________________________________________
Eric Garner
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David Gilbert-2

Re: Can I rent a K4?

In reply to this post by John Harper

This makes very little sense to me. I can't see there being any way
Elecraft could justify the risk and hassle of renting out their
equipment. Ask yourself this ... do you think you could make money
buying a K4 and then renting it to other random hams you don't know?
Would you be willing to take that kind of risk? Think of the time it
would take on your part to administer it.

I suppose, given the purported remote capability of the K4 using a free
app (as opposed to a piece of dedicated hardware), somebody might be
willing to offer remote access to a K4 in exchange for a modest fee. In
my opinion, if the K4 is as remotable as claimed then it should be
mostly possible to evaluate it that way. Even then I suspect that
Elecraft wouldn't want the hassle of offering that ... maybe somebody
else would.

Dave AB7E

On 2/3/2021 10:20 AM, John Harper wrote:

Alan - G4GNX

Re: Can I rent a K4?

In reply to this post by Eric Garner

The deposit is usually to cover minor damage when an item is returned.
It would have to be as high or higher than the cost to buy a new one, or
the renter could be well out of pocket.

Most would-be renters would be unlikely to want to shell out $400+ as a
deposit.

73,

Alan. G4GNX

------ Original Message ------
From: "Eric Garner" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft list" <[hidden email]>
Sent: 03/02/2021 17:44:43
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

>isn't that why most expensive things require a deposit to rent them?
>
>Eric KI7LTT
>
>On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 9:32 AM Alan - G4GNX <[hidden email]> wrote:
>

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Edward R Cole

Re: Can I rent a K4?

In reply to this post by John Harper

So one of you multi-millionaires might buy a dozen K4 and set up a
rental business. Hmm?

Rent at month minimum period for 10% of value and have clause to
recover any damage.

They rent cars that way. Of course they require the renter to have
full-coverage insurance.

So there is another business opportunity, selling insurance on ham radios.

Yes, of course, I am joking

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
[hidden email]

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Jim GM

Re: Can I rent a K4?

In reply to this post by John Harper

John AE5X, Really, a business model? Think about what you just said?Let me put in perspective, I has taken almost 2 years trying to get the K4 out the door. It will at least 2 years for them to com up with a business model. ;-) Jim K9TFSent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
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Jim Brown-10

Re: Can I rent a K4?

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

On 2/3/2021 10:03 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
> The real problem with rental returns ("B Stock") is that is can
> no longer be sold as new resulting in a loss of value that is
> often more than the rental proceeds.

Having worked in selling high value pro audio products, I can confirm
that Joe is absolutely right. And Elecraft is a small company, has a
backlog of orders that, thanks to their reputation, the effect of COVID
on their workers, and their supply chain, they are taking much longer
than expected to fulfill. Eric and Wayne are smart businessmen. Why
would they do something that loses money?

73, JimK9YC

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Bill Frantz

Re: Can I rent a K4?

In reply to this post by David Gilbert-2

Sure sounds like the service Remote Ham Radio
<https://www.remotehamradio.com/> is already offering with Flex
equipment. I seem to remember there also a service that offers
Elecraft equipment.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 2/3/21 at 2:20 PM, [hidden email] (David Gilbert) wrote:

>I suppose, given the purported remote capability of the K4
>using a free app (as opposed to a piece of dedicated hardware),
>somebody might be willing to offer remote access to a K4 in
>exchange for a modest fee. In my opinion, if the K4 is as
>remotable as claimed then it should be mostly possible to
>evaluate it that way. Even then I suspect that Elecraft
>wouldn't want the hassle of offering that ... maybe somebody
>else would.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | Security is like Government | Periwinkle
(408)348-7900 | services. The market doesn't | 150
Rivermead Rd #235
www.pwpconsult.com | want to pay for them. |
Peterborough, NH 03458

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Dr. William J. Schmidt, II

Re: Can I rent a K4?

In reply to this post by John Harper

I have some experience on this topic because I rent out my Elecraft
equipment at my contest station in the Caribbean (J68HZ). I have to treat
it strictly as a business investment. setting the price for rental at what I
would have to expect to replace all of the equipment every 5-10 years
depending upon what it is. and a little more for breakage in between. Of
course its discounted by my usage as well, but I can tell you it isn't
exactly cheap. However the program is well thought out and it can be done.
I can't do the remote station thing on St. Lucia because its not permitted
by their version of the FCC rules.

Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ

email: <mailto:[hidden email]> [hidden email]

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Phil Kane-2

Re: Can I rent a K4?

In reply to this post by Eric Garner

On 2/3/2021 9:44 AM, Eric Garner wrote:

> isn't that why most expensive things require a deposit to rent them?

Some 50-60 years ago Henry Radio in California used to "rent" used
transceivers by requiring a deposit of full sale price, which would be
refunded less a nominal charge when the gear was returned in the same
shape as when rented. I took advantage of that several times.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

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