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"Cheap Hams" ???

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Rose

"Cheap Hams" ???

After 64 years in the hobby I still don't understand where this
idea that hams are cheap comes from! I simply don't accept
this urban legend.

Jim is certainly correct about the funds changing hands at Visalia.
My Lady ... Rose of [hidden email] ... hasn't been
able to make the trip from Montana because of health reasons,
for a couple but the last time she was there with her tables she
came home with $3500+ in orders! Took her many weeks to
fill them. (:-)

She's free of cancer now, and steadily recovering.

73!

Ken Kopp - K0PP

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 6:20 PM, Jim Lowman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Obviously you've never been to the International DX Convention in Visalia
> that happened last weekend.
>
> These guys (and ladies) are dead serious, and are not afraid to spend some
> money. Don't confuse them with the guy at the local swapmeet who saved the
> 50 cents on a bar of soap so that he could haggle with a seller to get a
> dollar mic for his half buck.
>
> It was obvious from who the vendors were - most of them hawking high-end
> products like amplifiers, antennas and the like - and what they didn't have
> on display. Even at the Yaesu and Icom booths, there was nary a thing that
> would appeal to the shack-on-the-belt members of the fraternity.
>
> Back in the late 90s, when US Tower was located in Visalia, they would
> have an open house and lunch for anyone from the convention who stopped
> by. It was not unusual for some of the visitors to pull out checkbooks or
> plastic for thousands of dollars worth of purchases.
>
> I'm sure that Eric and crew took lots of orders for the K-Line and
> KX3-Line products.
>
> 73 de Jim - AD6CW
>
> On 4/21/2015 4:54 PM, David Cole wrote:
>
>> Yeah right... Never going to happen... Hams are without a doubt the
>> cheapest people I have ever met.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Alan. G4GNX

Re: "Cheap Hams" ???

It's generally been accepted for many years that if one ham has a component
that he doesn't need and another ham wants it, it will usually be given for
free. This culture has grown from the days when most shack equipment was
homebrew.
Hams also tend to help each other with projects, antenna farming etc.,
usually without payment.
At our local club, members often bring unwanted items along for
distribution, mostly for free. Sometimes if an item has some higher value, a
donation to club funds is expected.
Like other hobbies, we have "junk sales", where valued equipment can
sometimes be sold for silly prices.

I think that the above is where the "cheap" label has emerged from. I prefer
to think of hams as "thrifty". :-)

73,

Alan. G4GNX

-----Original Message-----
From: Rose
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2015 1:42 AM
To: Jim Lowman ; Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] "Cheap Hams" ???

After 64 years in the hobby I still don't understand where this
idea that hams are cheap comes from! I simply don't accept
this urban legend.

Jim is certainly correct about the funds changing hands at Visalia.
My Lady ... Rose of [hidden email] ... hasn't been
able to make the trip from Montana because of health reasons,
for a couple but the last time she was there with her tables she
came home with $3500+ in orders! Took her many weeks to
fill them. (:-)

She's free of cancer now, and steadily recovering.

73!

Ken Kopp - K0PP

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 6:20 PM, Jim Lowman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Obviously you've never been to the International DX Convention in Visalia
> that happened last weekend.
>
> These guys (and ladies) are dead serious, and are not afraid to spend some
> money. Don't confuse them with the guy at the local swapmeet who saved
> the
> 50 cents on a bar of soap so that he could haggle with a seller to get a
> dollar mic for his half buck.
>
> It was obvious from who the vendors were - most of them hawking high-end
> products like amplifiers, antennas and the like - and what they didn't
> have
> on display. Even at the Yaesu and Icom booths, there was nary a thing
> that
> would appeal to the shack-on-the-belt members of the fraternity.
>
> Back in the late 90s, when US Tower was located in Visalia, they would
> have an open house and lunch for anyone from the convention who stopped
> by. It was not unusual for some of the visitors to pull out checkbooks or
> plastic for thousands of dollars worth of purchases.
>
> I'm sure that Eric and crew took lots of orders for the K-Line and
> KX3-Line products.
>
> 73 de Jim - AD6CW
>
> On 4/21/2015 4:54 PM, David Cole wrote:
>
>> Yeah right... Never going to happen... Hams are without a doubt the
>> cheapest people I have ever met.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

WA2SI

Re: "Cheap Hams" ???

In reply to this post by Rose

"She's free of cancer now, and steadily recovering."

This is really all that matters! You made my evening. 👍👍

Vy 73 de Bert
WA2SI

Sent from my android device.
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: "Cheap Hams" ???

In reply to this post by Alan. G4GNX

What you are referring to is " Hams helping other hams", and that is
completely opposite the "hams are cheap" end of things.
Think about the hams who are quite willing to spend $3000 on their ham
gear and do not want to spend $75 on a dummy load (or other accessory).
That is the main reason for the opinion that "hams are cheap".

I have been through those "cheap ham days" out of necessity when the
family needs came first and there was not enough extra to spend on ham
gear. Those days are gone now that the kids are on their own. But then
in those days, I did not spend $3000 for a ham rig either.

I was once there where I did the best bargaining that I could for ham
gear and appealed to my other ham friends for their discards. Those days
are behind me, and I can now afford top of the line gear. I do reserve
some funds for top of the line test gear and other additions to the
hamshack that will provide me with the proper tools to keep my hamshack
in order.

Yes, I have been 'thrifty', but not at the expense of having proper
tools to evaluate my ham station. A dummy load and an antenna analyzer
are on the top end of my list of desired gear for any ham station.
Other gear may be helpful, but not essential.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/21/2015 9:15 PM, G4GNX wrote:

> It's generally been accepted for many years that if one ham has a
> component that he doesn't need and another ham wants it, it will
> usually be given for free. This culture has grown from the days when
> most shack equipment was homebrew.
> Hams also tend to help each other with projects, antenna farming etc.,
> usually without payment.
> At our local club, members often bring unwanted items along for
> distribution, mostly for free. Sometimes if an item has some higher
> value, a donation to club funds is expected.
> Like other hobbies, we have "junk sales", where valued equipment can
> sometimes be sold for silly prices.
>
> I think that the above is where the "cheap" label has emerged from. I
> prefer to think of hams as "thrifty". :-)

Phil Wheeler-2

Re: "Cheap Hams" ???

How about: Hams are sensible when it comes to
spending money? I like to think so in general,
even if/when I am not :-)

73, Phil W7OX

On 4/21/15 6:44 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> What you are referring to is " Hams helping
> other hams", and that is completely opposite the
> "hams are cheap" end of things.
> Think about the hams who are quite willing to
> spend $3000 on their ham gear and do not want to
> spend $75 on a dummy load (or other accessory).
> That is the main reason for the opinion that
> "hams are cheap".
>
> I have been through those "cheap ham days" out
> of necessity when the family needs came first
> and there was not enough extra to spend on ham
> gear. Those days are gone now that the kids are
> on their own. But then in those days, I did not
> spend $3000 for a ham rig either.
>
> I was once there where I did the best bargaining
> that I could for ham gear and appealed to my
> other ham friends for their discards. Those days
> are behind me, and I can now afford top of the
> line gear. I do reserve some funds for top of
> the line test gear and other additions to the
> hamshack that will provide me with the proper
> tools to keep my hamshack in order.
>
> Yes, I have been 'thrifty', but not at the
> expense of having proper tools to evaluate my
> ham station. A dummy load and an antenna
> analyzer are on the top end of my list of
> desired gear for any ham station. Other gear
> may be helpful, but not essential.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 4/21/2015 9:15 PM, G4GNX wrote:
>> It's generally been accepted for many years
>> that if one ham has a component that he doesn't
>> need and another ham wants it, it will usually
>> be given for free. This culture has grown from
>> the days when most shack equipment was homebrew.
>> Hams also tend to help each other with
>> projects, antenna farming etc., usually without
>> payment.
>> At our local club, members often bring unwanted
>> items along for distribution, mostly for free.
>> Sometimes if an item has some higher value, a
>> donation to club funds is expected.
>> Like other hobbies, we have "junk sales", where
>> valued equipment can sometimes be sold for
>> silly prices.
>>
>> I think that the above is where the "cheap"
>> label has emerged from. I prefer to think of
>> hams as "thrifty". :-)

Joshua Gould, K8WXA

Re: "Cheap Hams" ???

I'll admit that I'm one of those hams that and dropped a substantial amount of money on a rig. I'll also admit that I do not own a dummy load (save for my HT antenna...). If I ever get intoa situation where I need one, I know of a few hams that I could borrow one from.

I do not consider my self cheap, I tend to do a lot of research before I buy anything. Just ask my XYL how many times I flip-flopped on the decision of what to spend my money on when it came to my first HF rig. Ultimately the KX3 won the purchase as I intend to operate at home and portable.

I buy products once and I buy them to last. When you don't make a lot of money, making every penny count is far more important than buying cheap and having to replace it sooner than you expect. That's part of why I hate this whole consumable product trend.

72,
Joshua Gould
K8WXA
EM89pn

KX3# 7480
NAQCC # 7704

This message was sent from an iPhone. Please excuse any typos and the brevity of responses

> On Apr 21, 2015, at 21:53, Phil Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> How about: Hams are sensible when it comes to spending money? I like to think so in general, even if/when I am not :-)
>
> 73, Phil W7OX
>
>> On 4/21/15 6:44 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> What you are referring to is " Hams helping other hams", and that is completely opposite the "hams are cheap" end of things.
>> Think about the hams who are quite willing to spend $3000 on their ham gear and do not want to spend $75 on a dummy load (or other accessory). That is the main reason for the opinion that "hams are cheap".
>>
>> I have been through those "cheap ham days" out of necessity when the family needs came first and there was not enough extra to spend on ham gear. Those days are gone now that the kids are on their own. But then in those days, I did not spend $3000 for a ham rig either.
>>
>> I was once there where I did the best bargaining that I could for ham gear and appealed to my other ham friends for their discards. Those days are behind me, and I can now afford top of the line gear. I do reserve some funds for top of the line test gear and other additions to the hamshack that will provide me with the proper tools to keep my hamshack in order.
>>
>> Yes, I have been 'thrifty', but not at the expense of having proper tools to evaluate my ham station. A dummy load and an antenna analyzer are on the top end of my list of desired gear for any ham station. Other gear may be helpful, but not essential.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>>> On 4/21/2015 9:15 PM, G4GNX wrote:
>>> It's generally been accepted for many years that if one ham has a component that he doesn't need and another ham wants it, it will usually be given for free. This culture has grown from the days when most shack equipment was homebrew.
>>> Hams also tend to help each other with projects, antenna farming etc., usually without payment.
>>> At our local club, members often bring unwanted items along for distribution, mostly for free. Sometimes if an item has some higher value, a donation to club funds is expected.
>>> Like other hobbies, we have "junk sales", where valued equipment can sometimes be sold for silly prices.
>>>
>>> I think that the above is where the "cheap" label has emerged from. I prefer to think of hams as "thrifty". :-)
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

NK7Z

Re: "Cheap Hams" ???

The comment was in jest...

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 21, 2015, at 19:16, Joshua Gould, K8WXA <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I'll admit that I'm one of those hams that and dropped a substantial amount of money on a rig. I'll also admit that I do not own a dummy load (save for my HT antenna...). If I ever get intoa situation where I need one, I know of a few hams that I could borrow one from.
>
> I do not consider my self cheap, I tend to do a lot of research before I buy anything. Just ask my XYL how many times I flip-flopped on the decision of what to spend my money on when it came to my first HF rig. Ultimately the KX3 won the purchase as I intend to operate at home and portable.
>
> I buy products once and I buy them to last. When you don't make a lot of money, making every penny count is far more important than buying cheap and having to replace it sooner than you expect. That's part of why I hate this whole consumable product trend.
>
> 72,
> Joshua Gould
> K8WXA
> EM89pn
>
> KX3# 7480
> NAQCC # 7704
>
> This message was sent from an iPhone. Please excuse any typos and the brevity of responses
>
>> On Apr 21, 2015, at 21:53, Phil Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> How about: Hams are sensible when it comes to spending money? I like to think so in general, even if/when I am not :-)
>>
>> 73, Phil W7OX
>>
>>> On 4/21/15 6:44 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>>> What you are referring to is " Hams helping other hams", and that is completely opposite the "hams are cheap" end of things.
>>> Think about the hams who are quite willing to spend $3000 on their ham gear and do not want to spend $75 on a dummy load (or other accessory). That is the main reason for the opinion that "hams are cheap".
>>>
>>> I have been through those "cheap ham days" out of necessity when the family needs came first and there was not enough extra to spend on ham gear. Those days are gone now that the kids are on their own. But then in those days, I did not spend $3000 for a ham rig either.
>>>
>>> I was once there where I did the best bargaining that I could for ham gear and appealed to my other ham friends for their discards. Those days are behind me, and I can now afford top of the line gear. I do reserve some funds for top of the line test gear and other additions to the hamshack that will provide me with the proper tools to keep my hamshack in order.
>>>
>>> Yes, I have been 'thrifty', but not at the expense of having proper tools to evaluate my ham station. A dummy load and an antenna analyzer are on the top end of my list of desired gear for any ham station. Other gear may be helpful, but not essential.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Don W3FPR
>>>
>>>> On 4/21/2015 9:15 PM, G4GNX wrote:
>>>> It's generally been accepted for many years that if one ham has a component that he doesn't need and another ham wants it, it will usually be given for free. This culture has grown from the days when most shack equipment was homebrew.
>>>> Hams also tend to help each other with projects, antenna farming etc., usually without payment.
>>>> At our local club, members often bring unwanted items along for distribution, mostly for free. Sometimes if an item has some higher value, a donation to club funds is expected.
>>>> Like other hobbies, we have "junk sales", where valued equipment can sometimes be sold for silly prices.
>>>>
>>>> I think that the above is where the "cheap" label has emerged from. I prefer to think of hams as "thrifty". :-)
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

ktalbott

Re: "Cheap Hams" ???

In reply to this post by Phil Wheeler-2

Anyone who think hams are not cheap has obviously never tried to sell
anything at a hamfest. The dichotomy is that hams are the cheapest and at
the same time the most generous community of people with whom I have ever
associated. The same ham who will give a piece of equipment to a newbie
will haggle over dimes at the next swap meet. Perhaps this is part of the
allure.
73 de ken ke4rg

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Phil
Wheeler
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2015 9:53 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] "Cheap Hams" ???

How about: Hams are sensible when it comes to spending money? I like to
think so in general, even if/when I am not :-)

73, Phil W7OX

On 4/21/15 6:44 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> What you are referring to is " Hams helping other hams", and that is
> completely opposite the "hams are cheap" end of things.
> Think about the hams who are quite willing to spend $3000 on their ham
> gear and do not want to spend $75 on a dummy load (or other
> accessory).
> That is the main reason for the opinion that "hams are cheap".
>
> I have been through those "cheap ham days" out of necessity when the
> family needs came first and there was not enough extra to spend on ham
> gear. Those days are gone now that the kids are on their own. But
> then in those days, I did not spend $3000 for a ham rig either.
>
> I was once there where I did the best bargaining that I could for ham
> gear and appealed to my other ham friends for their discards. Those
> days are behind me, and I can now afford top of the line gear. I do
> reserve some funds for top of the line test gear and other additions
> to the hamshack that will provide me with the proper tools to keep my
> hamshack in order.
>
> Yes, I have been 'thrifty', but not at the expense of having proper
> tools to evaluate my ham station. A dummy load and an antenna
> analyzer are on the top end of my list of desired gear for any ham
> station. Other gear may be helpful, but not essential.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 4/21/2015 9:15 PM, G4GNX wrote:
>> It's generally been accepted for many years
>> that if one ham has a component that he doesn't
>> need and another ham wants it, it will usually
>> be given for free. This culture has grown from
>> the days when most shack equipment was homebrew.
>> Hams also tend to help each other with
>> projects, antenna farming etc., usually without
>> payment.
>> At our local club, members often bring unwanted
>> items along for distribution, mostly for free.
>> Sometimes if an item has some higher value, a
>> donation to club funds is expected.
>> Like other hobbies, we have "junk sales", where
>> valued equipment can sometimes be sold for
>> silly prices.
>>
>> I think that the above is where the "cheap"
>> label has emerged from. I prefer to think of
>> hams as "thrifty". :-)

ktalbott

Re: "Cheap Hams" ???

OOPS! I apologize for using that 4 syllable 'd' word. It was part of my
liberal arts education in non-government schools.

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Kenneth Talbott
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2015 10:37 PM
To: 'Phil Wheeler'; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] "Cheap Hams" ???

Anyone who think hams are not cheap has obviously never tried to sell
anything at a hamfest. The dichotomy is that hams are the cheapest and at
the same time the most generous community of people with whom I have ever
associated. The same ham who will give a piece of equipment to a newbie
will haggle over dimes at the next swap meet. Perhaps this is part of the
allure.
73 de ken ke4rg

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Phil
Wheeler
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2015 9:53 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] "Cheap Hams" ???

How about: Hams are sensible when it comes to spending money? I like to
think so in general, even if/when I am not :-)

73, Phil W7OX

On 4/21/15 6:44 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> What you are referring to is " Hams helping other hams", and that is
> completely opposite the "hams are cheap" end of things.
> Think about the hams who are quite willing to spend $3000 on their ham
> gear and do not want to spend $75 on a dummy load (or other
> accessory).
> That is the main reason for the opinion that "hams are cheap".
>
> I have been through those "cheap ham days" out of necessity when the
> family needs came first and there was not enough extra to spend on ham
> gear. Those days are gone now that the kids are on their own. But
> then in those days, I did not spend $3000 for a ham rig either.
>
> I was once there where I did the best bargaining that I could for ham
> gear and appealed to my other ham friends for their discards. Those
> days are behind me, and I can now afford top of the line gear. I do
> reserve some funds for top of the line test gear and other additions
> to the hamshack that will provide me with the proper tools to keep my
> hamshack in order.
>
> Yes, I have been 'thrifty', but not at the expense of having proper
> tools to evaluate my ham station. A dummy load and an antenna
> analyzer are on the top end of my list of desired gear for any ham
> station. Other gear may be helpful, but not essential.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 4/21/2015 9:15 PM, G4GNX wrote:
>> It's generally been accepted for many years that if one ham has a
>> component that he doesn't need and another ham wants it, it will
>> usually be given for free. This culture has grown from the days when
>> most shack equipment was homebrew.
>> Hams also tend to help each other with projects, antenna farming
>> etc., usually without payment.
>> At our local club, members often bring unwanted items along for
>> distribution, mostly for free.
>> Sometimes if an item has some higher value, a donation to club funds
>> is expected.
>> Like other hobbies, we have "junk sales", where valued equipment can
>> sometimes be sold for silly prices.
>>
>> I think that the above is where the "cheap"
>> label has emerged from. I prefer to think of hams as "thrifty". :-)

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Hisashi T Fujinaka

Re: "Cheap Hams" ???

I was thinking more along the lines of cognitive dissonance.

On Tue, 21 Apr 2015, Kenneth Talbott wrote:

--
Hisashi T Fujinaka - [hidden email]
BSEE + BSChem + BAEnglish + MSCS + $2.50 = coffee
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Grant Youngman

Re: "Cheap Hams" ???

In reply to this post by ktalbott

> OOPS! I apologize for using that 4 syllable 'd' word. It was part of my
> liberal arts education in non-government schools.
>

Are you you concerned that the rest of us are at best monosyllabic? :)

Grant NQ5T
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Phil Wheeler-2

Re: "Cheap Hams" ???

Yeah, I think this thread just transitioned for
saying hams are cheap to suggesting they are
stupid and/or uneducated.

Equally erroneous and even more unfortunate.

Phil W7OX

On 4/21/15 7:56 PM, GRANT YOUNGMAN wrote:
>> OOPS! I apologize for using that 4 syllable 'd' word. It was part of my
>> liberal arts education in non-government schools.
>>
> Are you you concerned that the rest of us are at best monosyllabic? :)
>
> Grant NQ5T

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N5GE

Re: "Cheap Hams" ???

In reply to this post by ktalbott

OK, now that all of you have told us how good your vocabulary is, can
we end this thread, or do you have more definitization to share with
us?

Amateur Radio Operator
N5GE

In memory of our Grandfather,
Arch Hinson, a WWI veteran who
engaged in battle against The Hun
at Saint-Mihiel, France, in 1918
and survived.

73

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saint-Mihiel#Background:_Saint-Mihiel_salient

On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 22:42:04 -0400, you wrote:

>OOPS! I apologize for using that 4 syllable 'd' word. It was part of my
>liberal arts education in non-government schools.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>Kenneth Talbott
>Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2015 10:37 PM
>To: 'Phil Wheeler'; [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] "Cheap Hams" ???
>
>Anyone who think hams are not cheap has obviously never tried to sell
>anything at a hamfest. The dichotomy is that hams are the cheapest and at
>the same time the most generous community of people with whom I have ever
>associated. The same ham who will give a piece of equipment to a newbie
>will haggle over dimes at the next swap meet. Perhaps this is part of the
>allure.
>73 de ken ke4rg
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Phil
>Wheeler
>Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2015 9:53 PM
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] "Cheap Hams" ???
>
>How about: Hams are sensible when it comes to spending money? I like to
>think so in general, even if/when I am not :-)
>
>73, Phil W7OX
>
>On 4/21/15 6:44 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> What you are referring to is " Hams helping other hams", and that is
>> completely opposite the "hams are cheap" end of things.
>> Think about the hams who are quite willing to spend $3000 on their ham
>> gear and do not want to spend $75 on a dummy load (or other
>> accessory).
>> That is the main reason for the opinion that "hams are cheap".
>>
>> I have been through those "cheap ham days" out of necessity when the
>> family needs came first and there was not enough extra to spend on ham
>> gear. Those days are gone now that the kids are on their own. But
>> then in those days, I did not spend $3000 for a ham rig either.
>>
>> I was once there where I did the best bargaining that I could for ham
>> gear and appealed to my other ham friends for their discards. Those
>> days are behind me, and I can now afford top of the line gear. I do
>> reserve some funds for top of the line test gear and other additions
>> to the hamshack that will provide me with the proper tools to keep my
>> hamshack in order.
>>
>> Yes, I have been 'thrifty', but not at the expense of having proper
>> tools to evaluate my ham station. A dummy load and an antenna
>> analyzer are on the top end of my list of desired gear for any ham
>> station. Other gear may be helpful, but not essential.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 4/21/2015 9:15 PM, G4GNX wrote:
>>> It's generally been accepted for many years that if one ham has a
>>> component that he doesn't need and another ham wants it, it will
>>> usually be given for free. This culture has grown from the days when
>>> most shack equipment was homebrew.
>>> Hams also tend to help each other with projects, antenna farming
>>> etc., usually without payment.
>>> At our local club, members often bring unwanted items along for
>>> distribution, mostly for free.
>>> Sometimes if an item has some higher value, a donation to club funds
>>> is expected.
>>> Like other hobbies, we have "junk sales", where valued equipment can
>>> sometimes be sold for silly prices.
>>>
>>> I think that the above is where the "cheap"
>>> label has emerged from. I prefer to think of hams as "thrifty". :-)
>
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Amateur Radio Operator N5GE

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: "Cheap Hams" ???

Administrator

Thread closed.

Eric
List moderator, when the noise level gets too high..
elecraft.com
_..._

> On Apr 21, 2015, at 8:13 PM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> OK, now that all of you have told us how good your vocabulary is, can
> we end this thread, or do you have more definitization to share with
> us?
>
> Amateur Radio Operator
> N5GE
>
> In memory of our Grandfather,
> Arch Hinson, a WWI veteran who
> engaged in battle against The Hun
> at Saint-Mihiel, France, in 1918
> and survived.
>
> 73
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saint-Mihiel#Background:_Saint-Mihiel_salient
>
>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 22:42:04 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>> OOPS! I apologize for using that 4 syllable 'd' word. It was part of my
>> liberal arts education in non-government schools.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>> Kenneth Talbott
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2015 10:37 PM
>> To: 'Phil Wheeler'; [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] "Cheap Hams" ???
>>
>> Anyone who think hams are not cheap has obviously never tried to sell
>> anything at a hamfest. The dichotomy is that hams are the cheapest and at
>> the same time the most generous community of people with whom I have ever
>> associated. The same ham who will give a piece of equipment to a newbie
>> will haggle over dimes at the next swap meet. Perhaps this is part of the
>> allure.
>> 73 de ken ke4rg
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Phil
>> Wheeler
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2015 9:53 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] "Cheap Hams" ???
>>
>> How about: Hams are sensible when it comes to spending money? I like to
>> think so in general, even if/when I am not :-)
>>
>> 73, Phil W7OX
>>
>>> On 4/21/15 6:44 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>>> What you are referring to is " Hams helping other hams", and that is
>>> completely opposite the "hams are cheap" end of things.
>>> Think about the hams who are quite willing to spend $3000 on their ham
>>> gear and do not want to spend $75 on a dummy load (or other
>>> accessory).
>>> That is the main reason for the opinion that "hams are cheap".
>>>
>>> I have been through those "cheap ham days" out of necessity when the
>>> family needs came first and there was not enough extra to spend on ham
>>> gear. Those days are gone now that the kids are on their own. But
>>> then in those days, I did not spend $3000 for a ham rig either.
>>>
>>> I was once there where I did the best bargaining that I could for ham
>>> gear and appealed to my other ham friends for their discards. Those
>>> days are behind me, and I can now afford top of the line gear. I do
>>> reserve some funds for top of the line test gear and other additions
>>> to the hamshack that will provide me with the proper tools to keep my
>>> hamshack in order.
>>>
>>> Yes, I have been 'thrifty', but not at the expense of having proper
>>> tools to evaluate my ham station. A dummy load and an antenna
>>> analyzer are on the top end of my list of desired gear for any ham
>>> station. Other gear may be helpful, but not essential.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Don W3FPR
>>>
>>>> On 4/21/2015 9:15 PM, G4GNX wrote:
>>>> It's generally been accepted for many years that if one ham has a
>>>> component that he doesn't need and another ham wants it, it will
>>>> usually be given for free. This culture has grown from the days when
>>>> most shack equipment was homebrew.
>>>> Hams also tend to help each other with projects, antenna farming
>>>> etc., usually without payment.
>>>> At our local club, members often bring unwanted items along for
>>>> distribution, mostly for free.
>>>> Sometimes if an item has some higher value, a donation to club funds
>>>> is expected.
>>>> Like other hobbies, we have "junk sales", where valued equipment can
>>>> sometimes be sold for silly prices.
>>>>
>>>> I think that the above is where the "cheap"
>>>> label has emerged from. I prefer to think of hams as "thrifty". :-)
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>
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>> delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>
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>
> ______________________________________________________________
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w7aqk

Re: "Cheap Hams" ???

In reply to this post by Rose

Ken and all,

While I agree that hams can haggle over 50 cents seemingly forever, isn't
that more due to the "ritual" of bargain hunting? As often as not, someone
someone "negotiating" like that doesn't really know exactly what they might
do with what they are proposing to buy, and so they don't want to pay a lot
for it. If something is really coveted, the price usually tends to get
closer to reality. At the same time, sellers are often just trying to rid
themselves of excess items, and don't really try that hard to get full
value. Getting rid of something is often much more important that squeezing
another dollar out of the purchaser.

I think Don Wilhelm has it about right. Hams aren't truly "cheap" so much
as they are "frugal", and sometimes to excess. For one thing, I think most
hams have invested a lot more, probably, than they needed to, and maybe to
the point where they may be stretching the budget! Ham gatherings like
Visalia and Dayton are where you will see a buying frenzy that often boggles
the mind!

Where I think a lot of hams make their mistake is by "under-buying". They
may opt for a somewhat lesser product, or a stripped down product, when it
truth they really need a somewhat upgraded version (or a different item
altogether) to really satisfy their needs. So, later they have to upgrade,
and at an increased cost, or at least increased inconvenience. It's not
that they couldn't really afford the upgrade at first, but they haven't
really thought things through adequately. Cost/benefit isn't always easy to
evaluate. The morale here is that, once you have committed yourself to
spending several hundred dollars (if not thousands), don't focus too much on
spending another relatively few dollars to make it really do what you need
it to do! This may seem like a ridiculous metaphor, but consider the
process of buying a bottle of wine in a restaurant. One bottle costs $10,
and you don't know much about it. Another may cost $16, but you have a good
idea it is decent quality. If you opt for the $10 bottle, and it turns out
to be more like vinegar, have you saved $6, or have you wasted $10??? My
dad, who could squeeze a nickel as well as anybody, would opt for the $16
bottle--every time! He always said the real decision is do you spend
anything at all, but once you make that decision, you should make sure you
get something of value in return, and not worry about a few more dollars.
It's kind of the "penny wise and pound foolish" thing. I know I've wasted a
lot of money buying things because they were "inexpensive", and later found
that there was a very good reason for the low price!!!!

Dave W7AQK

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Jim Low man

Re: Elecraft and expandability

Since I probably started the "cheap hams" thread with my comments about
Visalia, maybe I should help to refocus the discourse.

Dave brings up a good point about Elecraft products. From the K2 at the
beginning, it was possible to buy a very basic (I won't say
stripped-down) radio and expand it as operational needs dictate and the
budget allows.

Maybe a ham couldn't afford a full-blown K3 with all of the options
initially, but he could squeeze enough out of the budget to buy a K3/10.
Added savings could be had by ordering the kit version. Eventually he
could add the needed modules to finish the job.

Try that with any of the "Big Three" manufacturers of ham gear. The new
synth boards are a good example. With Yaecomwood, the newer version of
the K3 would be the "K3-Plus," for example.

73 de Jim - AD6CW

On 4/21/2015 10:51 PM, dyarnes wrote:
> Ken and all,

> Where I think a lot of hams make their mistake is by "under-buying".
> They may opt for a somewhat lesser product, or a stripped down product,
> when it truth they really need a somewhat upgraded version (or a
> different item altogether) to really satisfy their needs. So, later
> they have to upgrade, and at an increased cost, or at least increased
> inconvenience. It's not that they couldn't really afford the upgrade at
> first, but they haven't really thought things through adequately.

> Dave W7AQK
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Elecraft mailing list

Re: "Cheap Hams" ???

In reply to this post by Rose

Ken,
I suspect it comes from the fact that new hams either don't have, or don't want to spend, the money on a good quality radio that will last them for years; instead, many are satisfied with a cheap hand-held radio that might break if you look at it wrong (I have several that fit that description myself). Myself, I tend to be a thrifty ham; I don't always buy the cheapest radio out there, but I spend the money wisely when I do spend it.

Matthew PittsN8OHU

From: Rose <[hidden email]>
To: Jim Lowman <[hidden email]>; Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2015 8:42 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] "Cheap Hams" ???

After 64 years in the hobby I still don't understand where this
idea that hams are cheap comes from! I simply don't accept
this urban legend.

Jim is certainly correct about the funds changing hands at Visalia.
My Lady ... Rose of [hidden email] ... hasn't been
able to make the trip from Montana because of health reasons,
for a couple but the last time she was there with her tables she
came home with $3500+ in orders! Took her many weeks to
fill them. (:-)

She's free of cancer now, and steadily recovering.

73!

Ken Kopp - K0PP

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 6:20 PM, Jim Lowman <[hidden email]> wrote: