Compromise/Limited Space/Make My Day Antenna Advice

[Thom LaCosta]

I could use a suggestion or two....I live in a very congested area....my house
is 11 foot wide and 25 feet long...with a yard that is 10 feel deep....I have a
10 by 10 deck on the second floor.

I used to have an endfed wire that ran across the street to a phone pole...but
new houses cut that off.

There is a vent pipe on the back of the house that sticks up about 5 feet above
the roof.

So...I could try a loop on my roof(10 x 25 x 10 x 25), go over my neighbor's
roof(20 x 25 x 20 x 25) use the other neighbor's roof (30 x 25 x 30 x24), or
try to attach a light weight mast to the vent pole and go "up".

QRN is very bad here.  Any and all hints would be appreciated.

Rig is the K2 with the autotuner.

73,Thom-k3hrn
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[Andrew Moore-4]

> I could use a suggestion or two....I live in a very congested area....my house
> is 11 foot wide and 25 feet long...with a yard that is 10 feel deep....I have a
> 10 by 10 deck on the second floor.

For limited space installations I've been amazed at how much a simple longwire with a counterpoise can do (like the setups recommended for use with the KX1).  In terms of bang for the buck, and simplicity of installation, it's hard to beat.  On 40 meters (which is all I use) I toss the 25 foot long radiator into the trees or any convenient support, and a quarter-wavelength counterpoise on the ground.

--Andrew, NV1B


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[Stuart Rohre]

Hi Thom,
The loop can be a antenna of choice for QRN/ QRM areas.  The end fed antenna
being unbalanced may have more noise than the loop.  You will end up with
more of a rectangular loop, or a horizontal "Hentenna".

For the higher bands, 20 and up you might investigate the compact beam
designs like the Moxon rectangle.

You might have to consider a loaded dipole.  Even a loaded dipole, although
shorter, will also carry the advantage of being a balanced antenna with
fewer feeding unknowns.

I would avoid running over neighbor's roofs, etc. and keep your antenna on
your own property.

Now you might try vertical dipoles.   Sleeving the feed by bringing it down
inside the tubing has shown on the Gap Titan, that the result is less noise
pickup than with conventional quarter wave dipoles.  A vertical of the "half
wave" type, with linear decouplers for various bands can be a very good DX
antenna when the bands are open.

GL,
Stuart
K5KVH



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[David F. Reed]

Thom,

many people that are very space constrained find a magnetic loop antenna
to work fairly well; there are some associated hassles, like very narrow
bandwidth, but they can be tuned, and are fairly low noise (not very
susceptible to noise); someone may have some links to sites describing
them or offering them; I am away from my main source of that info.

Good luck & 73 de W5SV, Dave

Thom R LaCosta wrote:

> I could use a suggestion or two....I live in a very congested
> area....my house is 11 foot wide and 25 feet long...with a yard that
> is 10 feel deep....I have a
> 10 by 10 deck on the second floor.
>
> I used to have an endfed wire that ran across the street to a phone
> pole...but new houses cut that off.
>
> There is a vent pipe on the back of the house that sticks up about 5
> feet above the roof.
>
> So...I could try a loop on my roof(10 x 25 x 10 x 25), go over my
> neighbor's roof(20 x 25 x 20 x 25) use the other neighbor's roof (30 x
> 25 x 30 x24), or
> try to attach a light weight mast to the vent pole and go "up".
>
> QRN is very bad here.  Any and all hints would be appreciated.
>
> Rig is the K2 with the autotuner.
>
> 73,Thom-k3hrn

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[Matt and Kelly]

You may have already thought of this, but a Buddipole on your deck might
work.  I live on the second floor of an apartment building and use one on my
deck.  Not the best but when no other antennas are allowed/possible, it
works.

Matt - K7OE

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Thom R LaCosta
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 2:48 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Compromise/Limited Space/Make My Day Antenna Advice

I could use a suggestion or two....I live in a very congested area....my
house
is 11 foot wide and 25 feet long...with a yard that is 10 feel deep....I
have a
10 by 10 deck on the second floor.

I used to have an endfed wire that ran across the street to a phone
pole...but
new houses cut that off.

There is a vent pipe on the back of the house that sticks up about 5 feet
above
the roof.

So...I could try a loop on my roof(10 x 25 x 10 x 25), go over my neighbor's

roof(20 x 25 x 20 x 25) use the other neighbor's roof (30 x 25 x 30 x24), or
try to attach a light weight mast to the vent pole and go "up".

QRN is very bad here.  Any and all hints would be appreciated.

Rig is the K2 with the autotuner.

73,Thom-k3hrn

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[Don Wilhelm-3]

Thom,

For operation on such a small footprint, I would think th ebest solution
would be a vertical - especially a vertical dipole because it should not
require radials for proper operation.  There are several multiband verticals
available, but for single band use, a half wave of aluminum tubing with an
insulator in the middle - coax fed up the inside of the lower section should
do the job nicely, and for much less cost than the commercial multiband
varieties.

For multiband operation, you may also want to consider a non-resonant
vertical dipole (22 to 24 ft on each side for 40 thru 10 meter operation,
half that for 20 thru 10) - just build it of aluminum tubing and stand it on
end - feed with open wire or ladder-line, and run the feedline away from the
antenna as close to perpendicular as you can manage - use a 1:1 current
balun in the shack (or if you must come into the shack only with coax, put
the balun at the entry point) - the balun should be a current type to handle
the varying reactance levels - a voltage balun is prone to saturation.

73,
Don W3FPR

> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> I could use a suggestion or two....I live in a very congested
> area....my house
> is 11 foot wide and 25 feet long...with a yard that is 10 feel
> deep....I have a
> 10 by 10 deck on the second floor.
>
> I used to have an endfed wire that ran across the street to a
> phone pole...but
> new houses cut that off.
>
> There is a vent pipe on the back of the house that sticks up
> about 5 feet above
> the roof.
>
> So...I could try a loop on my roof(10 x 25 x 10 x 25), go over my
> neighbor's
> roof(20 x 25 x 20 x 25) use the other neighbor's roof (30 x 25 x
> 30 x24), or
> try to attach a light weight mast to the vent pole and go "up".
>
> QRN is very bad here.  Any and all hints would be appreciated.
>
> Rig is the K2 with the autotuner.
>
> 73,Thom-k3hrn
> www.zerobeat.net Home of QRP Web Ring, Drakelist home page,
> Free Classified Ads for amateur radio, QRP IRC channel
> Elecraft Owners Database
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[Jeff Imel]

Thom,

You could purchase a 20 to 30 foot fiberglass, telescoping fishing pole and
mount it on your second floor deck so that it slopes at a 45 degree angle or
so.  You can run a wire up the pole to the tip and allow enough wire to hang
off of the tip so that it can not be touched by someone on the ground.  You
can run a single counterpoise from your secod floor deck down to the ground.


I operate like this when on vacation at a beach house and at Field Day.  I
duct tape a 2" ID x 2 foot long PVC pipe to the deck at 45 degrees and then
slide the pole into the PVC pipe.  When I am done operating, I retract the
pole and reel in the line.

Let us know what you decide to do and how it turns out for you.  Many of us
could benefit from hearing more about the antenna(s) you build and try.

73

Jeff
K9ESE

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thom R LaCosta" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 5:48 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Compromise/Limited Space/Make My Day Antenna Advice

>I could use a suggestion or two....I live in a very congested area....my
>house is 11 foot wide and 25 feet long...with a yard that is 10 feel
>deep....I have a
> 10 by 10 deck on the second floor.
>
> I used to have an endfed wire that ran across the street to a phone
> pole...but new houses cut that off.
>
> There is a vent pipe on the back of the house that sticks up about 5 feet
> above the roof.
>
> So...I could try a loop on my roof(10 x 25 x 10 x 25), go over my
> neighbor's roof(20 x 25 x 20 x 25) use the other neighbor's roof (30 x 25
> x 30 x24), or
> try to attach a light weight mast to the vent pole and go "up".
>
> QRN is very bad here.  Any and all hints would be appreciated.
>
> Rig is the K2 with the autotuner.
>
> 73,Thom-k3hrn
> www.zerobeat.net Home of QRP Web Ring, Drakelist home page,
> Free Classified Ads for amateur radio, QRP IRC channel
> Elecraft Owners Database
> www.tlchost.net/hosting/  ***  Web Hosting as low as 3.49/month
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

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[Francis Belliveau]

On: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 5:48 PM
"Thom R LaCosta" <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I could use a suggestion or two....I live in a very congested area....my
house
> is 11 foot wide and 25 feet long...with a yard that is 10 feel deep....I
have a
> 10 by 10 deck on the second floor.
> ...
For a quick and dirty simple solution you could probably fit a 20 meter
sloping inverted-V.

Run coax feedline up the center of the rear of the house, as high as
possible, to the center of a dipole cut for 20 Meters.  From there run the
ends to a pole on each corner of the lot.

The formula:  SQRT((10*10) + (12.5*12.5)) yields 12.89 feet which is only a
few inches off from a 20 meter quarter wave (13.12 feet).  The slope should
easily eat that up.

That will get you on the air quickly in an afternoon while you work on
better solutions that have been suggested.

Fran


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[Randy K7RAN]

Thom, I've had great luck using tiny Isotron antennas on my deck,  
even on 40 and 80 meters. Try www.isotronantennas.com ... For  
reviews, see http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/311

Randy, K7RAN


On Aug 23, 2005, at 3:48 PM, Thom R LaCosta wrote:


> I could use a suggestion or two....I live in a very congested  
> area....my house is 11 foot wide and 25 feet long...with a yard  
> that is 10 feel deep....I have a
> 10 by 10 deck on the second floor.
>
>
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[Thom LaCosta]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, Thom R LaCosta wrote:

> I could use a suggestion or two....I live in a very congested area....my
> house is 11 foot wide and 25 feet long...with a yard that is 10 feel
> deep....I have a
> 10 by 10 deck on the second floor.

Thanks to all for the many suggestions....I'll post to the list what seems
to work best....it looks like there are many more possibilities than I
imagined....which is an indication of how this list can be of assistance.

Thanks for the help.

73,Thom-k3hrn
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