Connecting SDRPlay to P3 IF OUT, to CW Skimmer

[Peter W2IRT]

I bought an SDR Play 1A at Dayton with the intention of feeding its RF IN
port from my P3's IF out. I don't have a separate multi-band antenna that I
can dedicate to the SDRPlay, so I think I need to go the IF Route. I run
full legal-limit TX power from antennas in the center of a small city lot,
so even if I put up a separate RX-only antenna, I would probably risk
damaging the SDR, and also it would not be able to hear the weak signals
that my tower-mounted Yagis are picking up and supplying to my K3s.


I then need to feed the SDR output into CW Skimmer so I can populate my own
bandmaps in N1MM and DX Lab Suite.

Has anybody successfully done this, and if so, is there a step-by-step
tutorial somewhere that I can reference? Or conversely, if someone wouldn't
mind taking a few minutes to walk me through this I'd be extremely grateful.
I'm getting precisely nowhere at the moment.


---------------------------------------------
73 and Good DX
Peter, W2IRT



President, North Jersey DX Association

DXCC Card Checker
Letter O Manager, ARRL Incoming 2nd District QSL bureau

 

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[Ignacy]

Connecting SDR may be simpler. I think HDSDR has an option to sent I/Q
signals to the Skimmer. I use AS-RXFEP - Receiver Front End Protector from
Array Solutions to protect SDR. I use TX vertical or RX loop as receive
antenna with AS-RXFEP - Receiver Front End Protector from Array Solutions,
close to TX antennas and never any problem.

Igancy, NO9E



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[Peter W2IRT]

I have the same front end protector on my K9AY receive loop, but that's not
a suitable antenna for anything above 80m, and I need the SDR to be
functional on all bands. I could put in an antenna switch, but honestly I'd
rather not unless there's no alternative. I only need the CW portion of the
currently active band to feed the SDR--but I agree, having full bandwidth
would be better.

I am also considering Win4K3 Suite, but I'm not sure about how to get this
to work with the K3s, DX Lab Suite, and N1MM+. It's a real nightmare to
understand if you don't really have much understanding of how it all works.

 - pjd

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On
Behalf Of Ignacy
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2019 7:20 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Connecting SDRPlay to P3 IF OUT, to CW Skimmer

Connecting SDR may be simpler. I think HDSDR has an option to sent I/Q
signals to the Skimmer. I use AS-RXFEP - Receiver Front End Protector from
Array Solutions to protect SDR. I use TX vertical or RX loop as receive
antenna with AS-RXFEP - Receiver Front End Protector from Array Solutions,
close to TX antennas and never any problem.

Igancy, NO9E



--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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[Barry LaZar]

Peter,
     I use the SDRPlay for spectrum display with my K3s using Win4K3. I
have found it really easy to control anything you want or have so long
as it is compatible with the K3. It's all done using virtual com ports
that you create using a FREE bit of software named com0com. You create
the ports in pairs and name them com10, com11, etc. One com port is
listed in the Win4K3 set up and the other is called out in the software
you want to connect. I use about 6 pairs with no problems and it seems
to be very stable. Listen for me this weekend as I will be using this
set up for the CQ WPX contest with N1MM as my logging package.

     Getting CW Skimmer to work with SDRPlay is quite convoluted, so I
use LP Pan to an external sound card to drive Skimmer with the required
MME format data; I had the LP Pan left over from something else I was
doing. You will dedicate a comport pair to Skimmer so it integrates and
plays with everything else. I have played with a few different
configurations and feel comfortable that this is the easiest way to go
and it yields great flexibility with stability. Best of Luck.

73,
Barry
K3NDM

------ Original Message ------
From: "Peter Dougherty" <[hidden email]>
To: "Ignacy" <[hidden email]>; [hidden email]
Sent: 5/23/2019 7:57:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Connecting SDRPlay to P3 IF OUT, to CW Skimmer

>I have the same front end protector on my K9AY receive loop, but that's not
>a suitable antenna for anything above 80m, and I need the SDR to be
>functional on all bands. I could put in an antenna switch, but honestly I'd
>rather not unless there's no alternative. I only need the CW portion of the
>currently active band to feed the SDR--but I agree, having full bandwidth
>would be better.
>
>I am also considering Win4K3 Suite, but I'm not sure about how to get this
>to work with the K3s, DX Lab Suite, and N1MM+. It's a real nightmare to
>understand if you don't really have much understanding of how it all works.
>
>  - pjd
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On
>Behalf Of Ignacy
>Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2019 7:20 PM
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Connecting SDRPlay to P3 IF OUT, to CW Skimmer
>
>Connecting SDR may be simpler. I think HDSDR has an option to sent I/Q
>signals to the Skimmer. I use AS-RXFEP - Receiver Front End Protector from
>Array Solutions to protect SDR. I use TX vertical or RX loop as receive
>antenna with AS-RXFEP - Receiver Front End Protector from Array Solutions,
>close to TX antennas and never any problem.
>
>Igancy, NO9E
>
>
>
>--
>Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
>______________________________________________________________
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[Bob McGraw - K4TAX]

Why not take the RX OUT of the K3 to a BNC T  and the RX IN of the K3 
to the other side of the BNC T and with a BNC T  in that path, feed that
to the SDR receiver.  Then on the K3 press the RX ANT button and both
are fed the entire band from the same antenna and they are protected
during transmit.   You can use HDSDR and OmniRig to control both the SDR
receiver and control the K3.  With HDSDR and OmniRig it communicates
both ways.

Two short BNC to BNC jumpers, a BNC T and a short BNC to the input on
the SDR is all that is needed.

73

Bob, K4TAX


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[ANDY DURBIN]

"I think HDSDR has an option to sent I/Q signals to the Skimmer."

Yes it has.  I've been doing it that way for some time as documented in my "Introduction to SDR based Panadapters" presentation:

http://www.w7tbc.org/downloads.php?do=file&id=382


73,
Andy, k3wyc
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[Barry LaZar]

You can do that. In fact I did that initially, I now use a Minicircuits
Lab 2 way splitter and an about 6 db gain buffer amp between my K3s and
the divider. This seemed to give me a bit better spectrum display. You
will need NO SDR protection as you are using the receiver IF.

I did use HDSDR during one of my early configurations. It just seemed
harder to set up than what I use now. But, it won't require spending for
an LP pan and sound card. Hmmm. I think I just got the answer to a
question I had raised about using the I&Q data available from the K4 USB
connector for CW Skimmer. I suspect the formats are the same.

Your description at the bottom of your note will work if all you want is
spectrum display, but to do serious integration like marrying up
logging, spotting spectrum display CW skimmer and then a contest
configuration, you are going to need to distribute and receive K3 band,
frequency, and mode data. Using Win4K3 suite with com0com does make that
easy and you could use what you describe using a pair of virtual ports.
Should work well.

73,
Barry
K3NDM

------ Original Message ------
From: "Bob McGraw K4TAX" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: 5/23/2019 8:36:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Connecting SDRPlay to P3 IF OUT, to CW Skimmer

>Why not take the RX OUT of the K3 to a BNC T  and the RX IN of the K3  to the other side of the BNC T and with a BNC T  in that path, feed that to the SDR receiver.  Then on the K3 press the RX ANT button and both are fed the entire band from the same antenna and they are protected during transmit.   You can use HDSDR and OmniRig to control both the SDR receiver and control the K3.  With HDSDR and OmniRig it communicates both ways.
>
>Two short BNC to BNC jumpers, a BNC T and a short BNC to the input on the SDR is all that is needed.
>
>73
>
>Bob, K4TAX
>
>
>______________________________________________________________
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>
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[Peter W2IRT]

I had an LP-PAN and sound card and could never get them to work very well
(they're up for sale for anybody who's interested). I don't think I
understand the whole RX-OUT/splitter/back to RF-in loop. Doing that would
mean I would have no RX antenna connection, would it not? I use the RX IN
connection for the feed from my K9AY loop in the back yard. If I used the
RX-OUT port, wouldn't I then lose my lowband RX antenna?

This is all still very unclear to me. I don't mind buying the Win4K3 suite,
but the COM port issues are confusing. 99% of the time I won't be using the
Win4K3 software and associated control. It's only going to be used for CW
contesting, period. The rest of the time I just use it as a conventional
radio for CW, SSB, FT-whatever, and RTTY.

 - pjd

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On
Behalf Of Barry
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2019 9:10 PM
To: Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]>; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Connecting SDRPlay to P3 IF OUT, to CW Skimmer

You can do that. In fact I did that initially, I now use a Minicircuits Lab
2 way splitter and an about 6 db gain buffer amp between my K3s and the
divider. This seemed to give me a bit better spectrum display. You will need
NO SDR protection as you are using the receiver IF.

I did use HDSDR during one of my early configurations. It just seemed harder
to set up than what I use now. But, it won't require spending for an LP pan
and sound card. Hmmm. I think I just got the answer to a question I had
raised about using the I&Q data available from the K4 USB connector for CW
Skimmer. I suspect the formats are the same.

Your description at the bottom of your note will work if all you want is
spectrum display, but to do serious integration like marrying up logging,
spotting spectrum display CW skimmer and then a contest configuration, you
are going to need to distribute and receive K3 band, frequency, and mode
data. Using Win4K3 suite with com0com does make that easy and you could use
what you describe using a pair of virtual ports.
Should work well.

73,
Barry
K3NDM

------ Original Message ------
From: "Bob McGraw K4TAX" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: 5/23/2019 8:36:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Connecting SDRPlay to P3 IF OUT, to CW Skimmer

>Why not take the RX OUT of the K3 to a BNC T  and the RX IN of the K3  to
the other side of the BNC T and with a BNC T  in that path, feed that to the
SDR receiver.  Then on the K3 press the RX ANT button and both are fed the
entire band from the same antenna and they are protected during transmit.
You can use HDSDR and OmniRig to control both the SDR receiver and control
the K3.  With HDSDR and OmniRig it communicates both ways.
>
>Two short BNC to BNC jumpers, a BNC T and a short BNC to the input on the
SDR is all that is needed.

>
>73
>
>Bob, K4TAX
>
>
>______________________________________________________________
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>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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>list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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[Barry LaZar]

Peter,
     First, you do not use RX RF out. You should use IF out. You need not
disconnect your receive antenna. I believe there is a buffer between the
receiver IF and the connector on the back of the K3, but the splitter
adds a little over 3 db loss/per output. The buffer amp I added, the
Clifton Lab amp available from DX Engineering, adds little better
buffering and just enough additional gain to make up for the losses
caused by the splitter. You loose NO coverage this way.

     You really do want to use the Win4K3 suite all the time. It will be
the center for all of your radio to various software communications even
if you never use the built in features. Please do not stress over
setting up com ports; it really isn't that hard with a port replicator
like com0com. There is only one port to worry about, the one real one
that connects to the radio. You can make that anything you like using
device manager, but just use whatever your computer calls it. To find
out what that is just bring up device manger, look under ports. You
should see a list of com ports. If there is nothing there, you probably
have only USB ports. If this is the case plug in your USB to serial
adapter. It will show up as a com port with number. That is what your
radio will use and you will tell Win4K3 that number. The virtual
comports you create will remain constant; just write them down so you
don't forget them and the pairing. Win4K3 communicates through these
virtual ports, and they will not change. The one real one may change due
to software upgrades, but it can be changed back in device manager. Now
you cab connect any software package you want and use a virtual com
port. If you use logging software, use the same com port as you would
for your contest logger like N1MM. Since you will use one or the other,
your logging can alsways be on that com port; this keeps a constant plan
no matter what you do. And I do the same thing with FLDIGI and WSJT-X.
My point is pick some com port designators and some configuration plan.
You can also use this plan with onmirig and whatever you want.
Hopefully, this whole thing helps.

73,
Barry
K3NDM

------ Original Message ------
From: "Peter Dougherty" <[hidden email]>
To: "Barry" <[hidden email]>; "Bob McGraw K4TAX"
<[hidden email]>; [hidden email]
Sent: 5/23/2019 10:00:14 PM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Connecting SDRPlay to P3 IF OUT, to CW Skimmer

>I had an LP-PAN and sound card and could never get them to work very well
>(they're up for sale for anybody who's interested). I don't think I
>understand the whole RX-OUT/splitter/back to RF-in loop. Doing that would
>mean I would have no RX antenna connection, would it not? I use the RX IN
>connection for the feed from my K9AY loop in the back yard. If I used the
>RX-OUT port, wouldn't I then lose my lowband RX antenna?
>
>This is all still very unclear to me. I don't mind buying the Win4K3 suite,
>but the COM port issues are confusing. 99% of the time I won't be using the
>Win4K3 software and associated control. It's only going to be used for CW
>contesting, period. The rest of the time I just use it as a conventional
>radio for CW, SSB, FT-whatever, and RTTY.
>
>  - pjd
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On
>Behalf Of Barry
>Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2019 9:10 PM
>To: Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]>; [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Connecting SDRPlay to P3 IF OUT, to CW Skimmer
>
>You can do that. In fact I did that initially, I now use a Minicircuits Lab
>2 way splitter and an about 6 db gain buffer amp between my K3s and the
>divider. This seemed to give me a bit better spectrum display. You will need
>NO SDR protection as you are using the receiver IF.
>
>I did use HDSDR during one of my early configurations. It just seemed harder
>to set up than what I use now. But, it won't require spending for an LP pan
>and sound card. Hmmm. I think I just got the answer to a question I had
>raised about using the I&Q data available from the K4 USB connector for CW
>Skimmer. I suspect the formats are the same.
>
>Your description at the bottom of your note will work if all you want is
>spectrum display, but to do serious integration like marrying up logging,
>spotting spectrum display CW skimmer and then a contest configuration, you
>are going to need to distribute and receive K3 band, frequency, and mode
>data. Using Win4K3 suite with com0com does make that easy and you could use
>what you describe using a pair of virtual ports.
>Should work well.
>
>73,
>Barry
>K3NDM
>
>------ Original Message ------
>From: "Bob McGraw K4TAX" <[hidden email]>
>To: [hidden email]
>Sent: 5/23/2019 8:36:06 PM
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Connecting SDRPlay to P3 IF OUT, to CW Skimmer
>
>>Why not take the RX OUT of the K3 to a BNC T  and the RX IN of the K3  to
>the other side of the BNC T and with a BNC T  in that path, feed that to the
>SDR receiver.  Then on the K3 press the RX ANT button and both are fed the
>entire band from the same antenna and they are protected during transmit.
>You can use HDSDR and OmniRig to control both the SDR receiver and control
>the K3.  With HDSDR and OmniRig it communicates both ways.
>>
>>Two short BNC to BNC jumpers, a BNC T and a short BNC to the input on the
>SDR is all that is needed.
>>
>>73
>>
>>Bob, K4TAX
>>
>>
>>______________________________________________________________
>>Elecraft mailing list
>>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
>>list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>______________________________________________________________
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>
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>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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