Could this operate on a motorcycle?

[rgconner]

Your passenger, which 95% of do not have, cannot effectively navigate for you, either.

[Matt Zilmer-3]

Good luck with it!  Despite others' comments about the KX3's
ruggedness, it's pretty robust.  I've had mine off road a dozen times,
mostly in a jeep mounted to the dash 1" RAM ball.  Seems like all
jeeps have those.  Had it out twice on a mountain bike, but there are
too many situations where vehicle control (lack of it) is a big issue.
I don't do that any more.

Be careful about cooling your KX3 with all five sides enclosed like
it's shown at the NP web site.  The KX3 likes a lot of exposure to
ambient air to stay in its happy temp range.  The KX3 will protect
itself from over-temperature, but you might not like the results all
that much.

You might want to call NP's sales/marketing guys in Seattle.  I used
to work with them all the time on GPS mounts and related accessories.
They may have some ideas for you to try.  They're really innovative
folks there.

73,
matt W6NIA


On Sun, 4 May 2014 13:37:24 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>Thanks for your reply, Matt.
>
>I have looked at all those resources, they are very good.
>
>My plan for an off-the-shelf solution would be:
>
>http://www.rammount.com/Products/AQUABOX/LargeAQUABOX/tabid/4887/Default.aspx
>
>and then mount on the handlebar in the center. The space around the box that
>is not take up by the radio could be filled with some small standoffs to
>reduce vibration but not kill circulation.
>
>Should the weather turn, closing up the box and turning off the unit to
>prevent overheating would be the likely course of action.

Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
--
"Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will
spend the first four sharpening the axe." -A. Lincoln
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[Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT]

This thread is a good example of using "reply" and it goes to one
person, and not to the whole list.

Please reply to the whole list, or "reply all" and (optionally) remove
the individuals.

Also, quote the relevant part of the message (only).  Thanks!

I said in an earlier post that you had to know what "this application"
was before you determine what is (or isn't) the right radio.

In a post I did not see through the list, we learned that "this
application" is for a group of motorcyclists to talk among themselves,
all on the same channel.

They're out of simplex VHF range, at least for handhelds.

Going to HF means everyone has to go to HF, so it's not a $2000 problem
(KX3 plus antennas and hardware) but $2000/each.

The first thing I'd probably do is get some really good VHF antennas for
everyone in the group.  Something at least 6db better than a rubber duckie.

Once I saw a really well designed 2 meter J-pole that mounted on top of
a Hustler mast.  The owner had no problems getting into repeaters where
some of us could not because he had just a little bit of height.  It
wasn't ideal in parking garages, he had to stop and fold the mast.

If antenna alone doesn't work, then 2 meter mobile radios with some
power could solve the problem.

73 -- Lynn
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[rgconner]

Well, there is no reply all, just reply, and I am replying to the mailing list, so I don't know what else I can do.

And yes, it is going to require an investment for everyone to go to 6m. But... the serious HAMs that have helped provide this solution already run 6m, and the cost is rather incremental if you are riding a $30K Goldwing, K1600 or HD bike.
Even on my F700GS, we are talking my cost in tires every year to buy this radio and a 6Db antenna.

So, please, don't add limitations I have not stated.

Now, someone stated somewhere that 6m is hard to keep attenuated, and that might be a deal killer. Maybe 10w vas 5w is not worth the gain. Maybe 25w is the floor.

Again, with all the praise for this unit, it seems odd it is such a wall flower. *shrug*

When I talked to the techs at the office, they seemed to think it would be ok, but then they are selling it, they are not going to say it can't do the job unless it is going to damage their rep if it breaks.

Considering the almost 100% against, I think most people's reaction to a "bad review" if it failed on a MC would be "dumbass"

[Elecraft mailing list]

RE:  “…with all the praise for this unit, it seems odd it is such a wall flower…”




I wouldn’t call it a wall flower.  The radio was designed as a high performance trail friendly radio (TFR).  As such, it represents the best there is for that mission.  Light weight, small size, self contained are just a few of its exceptional characteristics.  Wayne set trail friendly design requirements early on in its design, and compromises were made in other areas to be sure it met those requirements.  Use in high vibration areas, immersion proofing, and high power output were not high priorities.


In engineering, it is easy to think that you can make things a little better by “just adding one more feature”.  We call it “requirements creep”, and it is the death of good designs that would have worked well in the environment originally specified.  You see this over and over in many military designs where government representatives are encouraged to get a little more out of a supplier than what he originally agreed to.  Unless this is limited, it kills a good design.  In the case of the KX3, Wayne resisted requirements creep and now we have an absolutely beautiful TFR.


I spent much of my career taking designs similar to the KX3 through environmental testing.  Based on that experience, I so not believe the it is the best candidate for high vibration environments due to the compromises (i.e. small light-weight components such as No. 2 screws) necessary to meet the TFR requirements.  I did, however, select the KX3 for my backpack, walk-in-the-park, portable use radio.  It excels for those uses, and makes a nice table-top radio as well.


Mark
ars: KE6BB
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[Elecraft mailing list]

as they say "oops"  -- forgot to do the reply all.  Sorry about that.

KK4QDZ - Now with Extra Class Priv's, and a tiny KX3 to enjoy them!


________________________________
From: Bill Blomgren (kk4qdz) <[hidden email]>
To: rgconner <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, May 4, 2014 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?



Sticking to 6 meters, you might have a chance.  Antennas will be over a meter tall, and a ground plane will be a problem.
 
That said, my experiences with 11 meters was 'iffy' --- even with a huge antenna on a large spring.  (Having to ride through a florida thunderstorm, you really don't want a pointy metalic object trying to attract millions of volts and hundreds of thousands of amps, so in rain in Fla, the antenna was bent over under my arm and hooked under a hook on the motor guards to keep it out of the way of lightning...)
 
Then again, that was back in the dark ages of the first year of the 'wing, when it was a 1000 cc 4 cyl, and had no reverse or wet bar....

KK4QDZ - Now with Extra Class Priv's, and a tiny KX3 to enjoy them!


________________________________
From: rgconner <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, May 4, 2014 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?


Well, there is no reply all, just reply, and I am replying to the mailing
list, so I don't know what else I can do.

And yes, it is going to require an investment for everyone to go to 6m.
But... the serious HAMs that have helped provide this solution already run
6m, and the cost is rather incremental if you are riding a $30K Goldwing,
K1600 or HD bike.
Even on my F700GS, we are talking my cost in tires every year to buy this
radio and a 6Db antenna.

So, please, don't add limitations I have not stated.

Now, someone stated somewhere that 6m is hard to keep attenuated, and that
might be a deal killer. Maybe 10w vas 5w is not worth the gain. Maybe 25w is
the floor.

Again, with all the praise for this unit, it seems odd it is such a wall
flower. *shrug*

When I talked to the techs at the office, they seemed to think it would be
ok, but then they are selling it, they are not going to say it can't do the
job unless it is going to damage their rep if it breaks.

Considering the almost 100% against, I think most people's reaction to a
"bad review" if it failed on a MC would be "dumbass"




--
View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Could-this-operate-on-a-motorcycle-tp7588505p7588545.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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[Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT]

I don't know the GMail mail client, nor am I referring only to Mr. Conner.

I do know that less than half of this conversation is on-list.

I would not expect 6 meters to do any better than 2 meters.  I do know
that a 6 meter 1/4 wave antenna is going to be bigger than something for
2 meters that has a little gain.  I suggested the J-pole because it is
an end-fed half-wave and doesn't require a ground plane, and you'd want
one for a 6 meter 1/4 wave.  The normal J-Pole also puts the radiating
portion at least 19 inches above the mount, and getting antennas up in
the clear is always good.

You aren't close enough together for a line-of-sight low-power VHF
signal to work, and you aren't far enough apart to take advantage of
sky-wave propagation.  Ground-wave might be good, but mobile antennas
for the low end of HF are impractical, and not in your Technician
privileges.

We should all find out what problem is being solved and then fit the
solution to the problem, instead of just changing things until we find
something that works.

I think effective antennas and power on VHF will work.  I like the idea
of a good 2m amplifier that can be mounted somewhere out of the weather
and keeping your handhelds.

Having a KX3 at home, or maybe for extended stops along the ride with
some good portable wire antenna would be a lot of fun.

73 -- Lynn

On 5/4/2014 3:28 PM, rgconner wrote:
> Well, there is no reply all, just reply, and I am replying to the mailing
> list, so I don't know what else I can do.

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[rgconner]

I see it all on the Nabble list.

*shrug* If tech was easy, I would not be able to afford a KX3 =)

Using the Ft-60 with an amp would be awesome. How do I do that?

[Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT]

Don't forget an antenna, try a better antenna first.

The Motorcycle Amateur Radio Club has several pages on antennas. You
might start here: http://www.marc-hq.org/40.technotes/40-10.htm

They seem to think Comet has the most durable antennas.  I don't ride a
motorcycle nor have I used their antennas, so I can't say.

Start with the antenna.  You'll need coax with the appropriate connector
for your FT-60R (BNC??) and whatever connects to the mount you use on
your bike.

Mount the antenna as high as practical.  Getting the antenna up moves
the radio horizon farther away.

I don't know the ground plane requirements (if any) for Comet, and it
may vary from model to model (and from the models MARC used to recommend
to the ones that Comet makes now).

If your antenna does not work well, adding an amplifier will be far less
effective.

I've used Mirage amplifiers, but that was a few decades ago.

This is an example of their product:
http://www.mirageamp.com/Product.php?productid=B-310-G

This will give you 100 watts out.  More than that won't help, and I
could not find anything that said how much power they draw, or a fuse
rating, so I don't know how your bike would cope.  I would connect it
directly to the battery.

There are some details to work out, but just getting better antennas, up
higher, on all of the bikes in the group could be enough to solve your
problems.

73 -- Lynn

On 5/4/2014 4:09 PM, rgconner wrote:
> Using the Ft-60 with an amp would be awesome. How do I do that?

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[Don Wilhelm-4]

The KX3 (or any other Elecraft transceiver) is not as fragile as some in
this thread would imply.  It is actually has a rather sturdy enclosure,
and the SMD boards are much more sturdy than thru-hole electronics.  Put
it in a good mount and it will survive on the handlebars of those
motorcycles that you quoted.  It might have a rough time on a dirt bike,
but that is another situation entirely - you are talking of comfortable
riding bikes, some even rivaling the smooth ride of a 4 wheeled luxury
vehicle.

I do think your power level may be the limiting factor, especially if
you are riding in terrain with deep valleys and canyons where
communications may be challenging.  You can depend on only 5 watts from
the KX3 because if it is in strong direct sunlight and gets hot, the
power will throttle back to 5 watts.  If you can keep it in the shade,
then you can depend on 10 watts.

Since the safety and well-being of everyone in your group is of utmost
concern here, I would suggest 25 watts as your power goal unless you
have tested 5 or 10 watts on 6 meters (or 10 meters) under the most
difficult situations you are likely to encounter.

Having HF capability can solve many problems for communications from
canyons and other places where 6 meter/VHF communications will not be
reliable.  80 meters and a low dipole will provide you communications in
most cases, but that means getting off the bike and putting up that 80
meter dipole, so I don't think that is your main focus (except possibly
in extreme emergency situations).  I would recommend that you look into
a 6 meter (or 10 meter) transceiver with 25 to 50 watts output for
reliable communications under the conditions that you have stated.

I would think that an HF transceiver like the KX3 would be a great
choice for HF operation in camp at night, but for the terrain that you
describe it may not be the best choice for your in-route communications.

OTOH, if you have tried the CB band with 5 watt transceivers and it
works OK except for the 'yahoos', the KX3 at 5 watts on either 10 meters
or 6 meters may do the job fine for you.

73,
Don W3FPR

PS: your "reply", Reply All" problems come from Nabble.  Move over to
the main Elecraft reflector with a computer email client (or even
webmail), and those problems will go away.


On 5/4/2014 6:28 PM, rgconner wrote:

> Well, there is no reply all, just reply, and I am replying to the mailing
> list, so I don't know what else I can do.
>
> And yes, it is going to require an investment for everyone to go to 6m.
> But... the serious HAMs that have helped provide this solution already run
> 6m, and the cost is rather incremental if you are riding a $30K Goldwing,
> K1600 or HD bike.
> Even on my F700GS, we are talking my cost in tires every year to buy this
> radio and a 6Db antenna.
>
> So, please, don't add limitations I have not stated.
>
> Now, someone stated somewhere that 6m is hard to keep attenuated, and that
> might be a deal killer. Maybe 10w vas 5w is not worth the gain. Maybe 25w is
> the floor.
>
> Again, with all the praise for this unit, it seems odd it is such a wall
> flower. *shrug*
>
> When I talked to the techs at the office, they seemed to think it would be
> ok, but then they are selling it, they are not going to say it can't do the
> job unless it is going to damage their rep if it breaks.
>
> Considering the almost 100% against, I think most people's reaction to a
> "bad review" if it failed on a MC would be "dumbass"
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Could-this-operate-on-a-motorcycle-tp7588505p7588545.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

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[rgconner]

Well, I thought I mentioned we were all using Comet or Diamond, I think the worse is a Db5.1 gain anntena and the Elmer has a SWR meter, and we are all losing less than 10% on most of the bands we use.

If I understand these amp manuals, I just hook my existing antenna wire into the amp, then from the amp to the Antenna. Easy peasy.

At $150 to $300 for a starter model, it is worth a try to see if the FT-60 can drive it effectively. I doubt the Baofeng would do it.

Ears open if anyone wants to recommend an amp

On May 4, 2014, at 4:29 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Don't forget an antenna, try a better antenna first.
>
> The Motorcycle Amateur Radio Club has several pages on antennas. You might start here: http://www.marc-hq.org/40.technotes/40-10.htm
>
> They seem to think Comet has the most durable antennas.  I don't ride a motorcycle nor have I used their antennas, so I can't say.
>
> Start with the antenna.  You'll need coax with the appropriate connector for your FT-60R (BNC??) and whatever connects to the mount you use on your bike.
>
> Mount the antenna as high as practical.  Getting the antenna up moves the radio horizon farther away.
>
> I don't know the ground plane requirements (if any) for Comet, and it may vary from model to model (and from the models MARC used to recommend to the ones that Comet makes now).
>
> If your antenna does not work well, adding an amplifier will be far less effective.
>
> I've used Mirage amplifiers, but that was a few decades ago.
>
> This is an example of their product: http://www.mirageamp.com/Product.php?productid=B-310-G
>
> This will give you 100 watts out.  More than that won't help, and I could not find anything that said how much power they draw, or a fuse rating, so I don't know how your bike would cope.  I would connect it directly to the battery.
>
> There are some details to work out, but just getting better antennas, up higher, on all of the bikes in the group could be enough to solve your problems.
>
> 73 -- Lynn
>
> On 5/4/2014 4:09 PM, rgconner wrote:
>> Using the Ft-60 with an amp would be awesome. How do I do that?
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

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[rgconner]

Using  Mac Mail instead of Nabble, lets see if this works.

Most everyone on an HD or a Goidwing has a CB, because they are sold/installed from the dealer. No one uses them. Getting a hi frequency “scree” from some jerk is not conducive to riding.

25 watt it is. I am thinking that the Ft60 with an amp mounted in the top case is the way to go for the next “step”

The guy with the 25w rig can be heard by everyone 99% of the time. With “call response” in place, we can pass messages up and down the line if we have enough 25w to 5w users.

we will just have to stop (which has it’s own risks) and use a repeater/cell phone/smoke signal/flare gun to get the group back together.
On May 4, 2014, at 4:30 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The KX3 (or any other Elecraft transceiver) is not as fragile as some in this thread would imply.  It is actually has a rather sturdy enclosure, and the SMD boards are much more sturdy than thru-hole electronics.  Put it in a good mount and it will survive on the handlebars of those motorcycles that you quoted.  It might have a rough time on a dirt bike, but that is another situation entirely - you are talking of comfortable riding bikes, some even rivaling the smooth ride of a 4 wheeled luxury vehicle.
>
> I do think your power level may be the limiting factor, especially if you are riding in terrain with deep valleys and canyons where communications may be challenging.  You can depend on only 5 watts from the KX3 because if it is in strong direct sunlight and gets hot, the power will throttle back to 5 watts.  If you can keep it in the shade, then you can depend on 10 watts.
>
> Since the safety and well-being of everyone in your group is of utmost concern here, I would suggest 25 watts as your power goal unless you have tested 5 or 10 watts on 6 meters (or 10 meters) under the most difficult situations you are likely to encounter.
>
> Having HF capability can solve many problems for communications from canyons and other places where 6 meter/VHF communications will not be reliable.  80 meters and a low dipole will provide you communications in most cases, but that means getting off the bike and putting up that 80 meter dipole, so I don't think that is your main focus (except possibly in extreme emergency situations).  I would recommend that you look into a 6 meter (or 10 meter) transceiver with 25 to 50 watts output for reliable communications under the conditions that you have stated.
>
> I would think that an HF transceiver like the KX3 would be a great choice for HF operation in camp at night, but for the terrain that you describe it may not be the best choice for your in-route communications.
>
> OTOH, if you have tried the CB band with 5 watt transceivers and it works OK except for the 'yahoos', the KX3 at 5 watts on either 10 meters or 6 meters may do the job fine for you.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> PS: your "reply", Reply All" problems come from Nabble.  Move over to the main Elecraft reflector with a computer email client (or even webmail), and those problems will go away.
>
>
> On 5/4/2014 6:28 PM, rgconner wrote:
>> Well, there is no reply all, just reply, and I am replying to the mailing
>> list, so I don't know what else I can do.
>>
>> And yes, it is going to require an investment for everyone to go to 6m.
>> But... the serious HAMs that have helped provide this solution already run
>> 6m, and the cost is rather incremental if you are riding a $30K Goldwing,
>> K1600 or HD bike.
>> Even on my F700GS, we are talking my cost in tires every year to buy this
>> radio and a 6Db antenna.
>>
>> So, please, don't add limitations I have not stated.
>>
>> Now, someone stated somewhere that 6m is hard to keep attenuated, and that
>> might be a deal killer. Maybe 10w vas 5w is not worth the gain. Maybe 25w is
>> the floor.
>>
>> Again, with all the praise for this unit, it seems odd it is such a wall
>> flower. *shrug*
>>
>> When I talked to the techs at the office, they seemed to think it would be
>> ok, but then they are selling it, they are not going to say it can't do the
>> job unless it is going to damage their rep if it breaks.
>>
>> Considering the almost 100% against, I think most people's reaction to a
>> "bad review" if it failed on a MC would be "dumbass"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Could-this-operate-on-a-motorcycle-tp7588505p7588545.html
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
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[George Danner]

Gold Wing & Harley groups tend use built-in CB radios. CB radios in Gold
Wings & Harleys predate FRS; so retrofitting to FRS/GMRS can cause
compatibility issues with older bikes.
The only time that a group of 10 or so bikes loses communications is when
one of the riders turns down the squelch so far that he can't even hear
another bike 20' away.
Most of the helmet mounted radios are FRS &/or GMRS. As far as I know in
talking to those riders - they rarely get out of range with each other.
73
George
AI4VZ

-----Original Message-----
From: K8JHR
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2014 5:51 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?


Now I don't mean to sound critical, but is it somehow different for guys
on bikes than for guys in cars?  We use 5 watt FRS/GMRS radios for our
MINI Cooper driving club, and we can easily have thirty or forty cars on
a tour, and have participated in groups as large as 400.  If cars get
out of range, then we are either too spread out to be a group, or
perhaps the group is too large if the front and rear cars cannot
connect, or we cannot relay info.

I suppose that is where knowing the route in advance plays a helpful
part.  We don't kibitz at every turn;  we pretty much know where we are
going in advance ... well... all except for "Wrong Way Joan" who gets
lost no matter what we do.

Is it so different for bikes you need such a wide signal range?  We do
multi state, multi day tours, so it it is not like we don't go anywhere,
so I am wondering why you need more range than what a 5 watt rig might
provide.

Again...not being critical, genuinely curious about this.  Might learn
something to take back to our club!

------------------  K8JHR --------------------



On 5/4/2014 4:16 PM, rgconner wrote:
> 5w is not enough if we get out of line of site.
>

> 5w on 70cm works great 95% of the time, until we get canyons or lose
line of
> site.
>
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[JHRichards]

Interesting observations - surely a different driving experience.
Thanks for the uptake.

We drive in Michigan,  Ontario Canada, and down in the Smokey Mountains,
and "mountains" of Kentucky, North Carolina, and Tennessee, so some of
the same terrain considerations apply.

Thanks for the courteous reply.

------------------- K8JHR -----------------------

On 5/4/2014 6:08 PM, rgconner wrote:
> Your passenger, which 95% of do not have, cannot effectively navigate for
> you, either.
>
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[rgconner]

well, the naysayers have convinced me, the Elecraft is not the radio for me
for this application, and this is the application I need to solve first. A
home station is a year or two away, if ever.

I will just have to find a vendor that has a product that does what I need,
pity it is not this one.


On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 4:30 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The KX3 (or any other Elecraft transceiver) is not as fragile as some in
> this thread would imply.  It is actually has a rather sturdy enclosure, and
> the SMD boards are much more sturdy than thru-hole electronics.  Put it in
> a good mount and it will survive on the handlebars of those motorcycles
> that you quoted.  It might have a rough time on a dirt bike, but that is
> another situation entirely - you are talking of comfortable riding bikes,
> some even rivaling the smooth ride of a 4 wheeled luxury vehicle.
>
> I do think your power level may be the limiting factor, especially if you
> are riding in terrain with deep valleys and canyons where communications
> may be challenging.  You can depend on only 5 watts from the KX3 because if
> it is in strong direct sunlight and gets hot, the power will throttle back
> to 5 watts.  If you can keep it in the shade, then you can depend on 10
> watts.
>
> Since the safety and well-being of everyone in your group is of utmost
> concern here, I would suggest 25 watts as your power goal unless you have
> tested 5 or 10 watts on 6 meters (or 10 meters) under the most difficult
> situations you are likely to encounter.
>
> Having HF capability can solve many problems for communications from
> canyons and other places where 6 meter/VHF communications will not be
> reliable.  80 meters and a low dipole will provide you communications in
> most cases, but that means getting off the bike and putting up that 80
> meter dipole, so I don't think that is your main focus (except possibly in
> extreme emergency situations).  I would recommend that you look into a 6
> meter (or 10 meter) transceiver with 25 to 50 watts output for reliable
> communications under the conditions that you have stated.
>
> I would think that an HF transceiver like the KX3 would be a great choice
> for HF operation in camp at night, but for the terrain that you describe it
> may not be the best choice for your in-route communications.
>
> OTOH, if you have tried the CB band with 5 watt transceivers and it works
> OK except for the 'yahoos', the KX3 at 5 watts on either 10 meters or 6
> meters may do the job fine for you.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> PS: your "reply", Reply All" problems come from Nabble.  Move over to the
> main Elecraft reflector with a computer email client (or even webmail), and
> those problems will go away.
>
>
>
> On 5/4/2014 6:28 PM, rgconner wrote:
>
>> Well, there is no reply all, just reply, and I am replying to the mailing
>> list, so I don't know what else I can do.
>>
>> And yes, it is going to require an investment for everyone to go to 6m.
>> But... the serious HAMs that have helped provide this solution already run
>> 6m, and the cost is rather incremental if you are riding a $30K Goldwing,
>> K1600 or HD bike.
>> Even on my F700GS, we are talking my cost in tires every year to buy this
>> radio and a 6Db antenna.
>>
>> So, please, don't add limitations I have not stated.
>>
>> Now, someone stated somewhere that 6m is hard to keep attenuated, and that
>> might be a deal killer. Maybe 10w vas 5w is not worth the gain. Maybe 25w
>> is
>> the floor.
>>
>> Again, with all the praise for this unit, it seems odd it is such a wall
>> flower. *shrug*
>>
>> When I talked to the techs at the office, they seemed to think it would be
>> ok, but then they are selling it, they are not going to say it can't do
>> the
>> job unless it is going to damage their rep if it breaks.
>>
>> Considering the almost 100% against, I think most people's reaction to a
>> "bad review" if it failed on a MC would be "dumbass"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.
>> nabble.com/Could-this-operate-on-a-motorcycle-tp7588505p7588545.html
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>
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[Don Wilhelm-4]

Your email response reached both my email and the Elecraft reflector
just fine.  Nabble has gotten 'flaky' recently with the sender
identified as "Elecraft Refector"  I use only the Elecraft email list
and do not monkey with Nabble ond other derivatives of the Elecraft list.

I think your most recent choice is the best for your particular
situation.  While the KX3 is a great transceiver, it does have power
limitations for your situation as I understand it.  You are looking for
reliable communications in difficult propagation areas.  Those who are
on the Eastern part of the US may not appreciate the radio propagation
problems from deep valleys and canyons (although some in West Virginia
may understand).

Since the guy with the 25 watt rig can be heard most of the time, i
figure that should be your goal.  The other 1 percent can be handled via
cell phone or other means.

Sorry to deprive Elecraft of the sale of multiple KX3s, but if 5 watts
is not going to be adequate in potentially life saving events, then one
must go with whatever will do the job.

Take the KX3 along in your motorcycle trunk (or saddlebags or whatever
you call the stowage) along with an antenna for HF and enjoy some QSOs
when you settle down for a good night's rest.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/4/2014 7:43 PM, Russell Conner wrote:

> Using  Mac Mail instead of Nabble, lets see if this works.
>
> Most everyone on an HD or a Goidwing has a CB, because they are sold/installed from the dealer. No one uses them. Getting a hi frequency “scree” from some jerk is not conducive to riding.
>
> 25 watt it is. I am thinking that the Ft60 with an amp mounted in the top case is the way to go for the next “step”
>
> The guy with the 25w rig can be heard by everyone 99% of the time. With “call response” in place, we can pass messages up and down the line if we have enough 25w to 5w users.
>
> we will just have to stop (which has it’s own risks) and use a repeater/cell phone/smoke signal/flare gun to get the group back together.
> On May 4, 2014, at 4:30 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>

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[Phil Kane-2]

On 5/4/2014 3:28 PM, rgconner wrote:

> Now, someone stated somewhere that 6m is hard to keep attenuated, and that
> might be a deal killer. Maybe 10w vas 5w is not worth the gain. Maybe 25w is
> the floor.

OK, the 5 w hand-held won't cut it.  For about the third or less of the
price of a KX3 think about a 50-60W VHF mobile - about half the size of
the KX3.  If you can't cut it with 50W mobile, there are serious
problems.  We routinely get 10-15 miles full quieting.
-- --
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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[Phil Kane-2]

On 5/4/2014 4:29 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:

> This will give you 100 watts out.  More than that won't help, and I
> could not find anything that said how much power they draw, or a fuse
> rating, so I don't know how your bike would cope.  I would connect it
> directly to the battery.

Consider the RF Exposure hazard of sitting that close to a 100 watt
antenna!  50 W may even be too much.
-- --
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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[Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT]

It's the wrong radio for this application in the same way a hammer would
be a poor choice if you need to drive screws.

On 5/4/2014 5:17 PM, Russell Conner wrote:
> well, the naysayers have convinced me, the Elecraft is not the radio for me
> for this application, and this is the application I need to solve first.

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[rgconner]

LOL, I will have to put a tin foil shield in the Vanson leather jacket!

Bike handles two sets of 105w of heated clothing, 210w total so I suspect
it would be ok.


But I think 25 to 50 would be plenty.


On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 5:30 PM, Phil Kane <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 5/4/2014 4:29 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
>
> > This will give you 100 watts out.  More than that won't help, and I
> > could not find anything that said how much power they draw, or a fuse
> > rating, so I don't know how your bike would cope.  I would connect it
> > directly to the battery.
>
> Consider the RF Exposure hazard of sitting that close to a 100 watt
> antenna!  50 W may even be too much.
> -- --
> 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
> Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402
>
> From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
> Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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