Difficulty with K3 Utility RS232 Interface

[Tony Scesny]

Hi  Don,

> The K3Utility versions are not related to firmware upgrades (only one
> exception that I recall)
> AND
> A saved configuration file will NOT reload a previous version of the
> firmware - it will only reload menu settings, like AGC settings and such.
>
> So ... in the event of a firmware upgrade failure, a saved
> configuration file will be of no benefit for getting the K3
> operational again - the firmware must be loaded before a configuration
> can be restored.
>
> Firmware loads do not change menu entries and setup data!
> Configuration restore only restores menu entries and setup data!

In that context, you are absolutely right,  but ... It takes the Utility
file to make it all happen and each FW level has a specific Utility file
to load it and save THAT version of the Configuration file.  So they  
ARE  tied together in that respect.  All I have pointed out is the LEVEL
of the Utility file that was used to load each FW revision and when it
changed.  I am NOT saying they are compatible,  as there will be
improvements and new configurations.  There seems to be CONFUSION  as to
what parts of the Configuration file are relevant in an upgrade.  That's
another story.

   It gets even better.  Suppose you have several config files saved and
its time to upgrade,  what  do you do?    Well the answer now is,  you
have to choose which file (you can have only ONE)  that you want to be
the BASE file and reload it back to the K3 using the OLD Utility file .  
Then,  load the NEW FW file using the NEWEST level of Utility (they may
not be the same),  into the K3.    The K3 will  "suck up"  most of the
defaults that it finds already resident, with the exceptions that you
have noted,  and the rest will be your responsibility to re-enter.  
That's the current state of confusion as I understand it.

  So, all I presented was a way for ELECRAFT to supply the 4 versions of
Utility files necessary to LOAD earlier FW versions.  PERIOD.

  Richard,  remember Software Defined Radios are the wave of the
future.      Hang in there!

73's
Tony   K2ZLS
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[Don Wilhelm-4]

Tony,

While it may appear to be so on the surface, the K3 Utility and the
firmware versions are not linked at all.
The only exception I know of is the firmware level that required the
help of a new K3 utility to load properly - and that has been so long
ago I had almost forgotten about it.
If you look only at the released firmware levels (or betas for that
matter), consider the time between releases - yes Dick has done an
update of K3 Utility to add more K3Utility features, so yes, you could
update both because new versions were available.  An analogy is that an
upgrade to Windows is available, and so is an update to Mozilla Firefox
- that may happen in the same timeframe, but they are not related nor
dependent on each other.

Dick has now discovered that the K3Utility program cannot do a
configuration save with very old firmware, and he is in the process of
correcting that so the new K3Utility can handle older firmware without
error..  That fact alone should indicate that the K3 Utility and the
firmware are not linked.  Ask any others of the Firmware Field Test
Team, and they will probably tell you the same thing.

There are NO parts of the configuration file that are relevant to a
particular firmware upgrade unless you are informed to the contrary for
a particular firmware release.  Again, ask the others in the Field Test
or Development Teams and they should also verify that.  As a Field Test
member, I have loaded new and updated firmware 5 to 10 times more
frequently than other users, and I have NEVER found a change in my
configuration data after an upgrade, nor have I had a problem loading
new firmware.  I do have a few saved configuration files, but have never
felt the need to do a restore - the K3 firmware is solid for all
versions I have dealt with since I received my K3 in early January
2008.  A configuration save is not required prior to doing an upgrade,
although some may choose to do it.

73,
Don W3FPR

K2ZLS wrote:

> Hi  Don,
>
>  
>> The K3Utility versions are not related to firmware upgrades (only one
>> exception that I recall)
>> AND
>> A saved configuration file will NOT reload a previous version of the
>> firmware - it will only reload menu settings, like AGC settings and such.
>>
>> So ... in the event of a firmware upgrade failure, a saved
>> configuration file will be of no benefit for getting the K3
>> operational again - the firmware must be loaded before a configuration
>> can be restored.
>>
>> Firmware loads do not change menu entries and setup data!
>> Configuration restore only restores menu entries and setup data!
>>    
>
> In that context, you are absolutely right,  but ... It takes the Utility
> file to make it all happen and each FW level has a specific Utility file
> to load it and save THAT version of the Configuration file.  So they  
> ARE  tied together in that respect.  All I have pointed out is the LEVEL
> of the Utility file that was used to load each FW revision and when it
> changed.  I am NOT saying they are compatible,  as there will be
> improvements and new configurations.  There seems to be CONFUSION  as to
> what parts of the Configuration file are relevant in an upgrade.  That's
> another story.
>
>    It gets even better.  Suppose you have several config files saved and
> its time to upgrade,  what  do you do?    Well the answer now is,  you
> have to choose which file (you can have only ONE)  that you want to be
> the BASE file and reload it back to the K3 using the OLD Utility file .  
> Then,  load the NEW FW file using the NEWEST level of Utility (they may
> not be the same),  into the K3.    The K3 will  "suck up"  most of the
> defaults that it finds already resident, with the exceptions that you
> have noted,  and the rest will be your responsibility to re-enter.  
> That's the current state of confusion as I understand it.
>
>   So, all I presented was a way for ELECRAFT to supply the 4 versions of
> Utility files necessary to LOAD earlier FW versions.  PERIOD.
>
>   Richard,  remember Software Defined Radios are the wave of the
> future.      Hang in there!
>
> 73's
> Tony   K2ZLS
>  
>

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[Bill K9YEQ]

I will ditto Don's comment.  I regularly test the firmware and have had no
issues. I use the latest firmware files and I have rolled back once only to
turn around and load the updated firmware beta again.  Every release goes
through thorough testing and I have had no issues other than suggestions.
There may some feature bugs but these were always add-ons or updates to
configurations that needed improvement.


73,

Bill
K9YEQ
K2 #35; KX1 #35; K3 #1744; mini mods
ATS-3B
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:40 PM
To: K2ZLS
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Difficulty with K3 Utility RS232 Interface

Tony,

While it may appear to be so on the surface, the K3 Utility and the
...... ask the others in the Field Test
or Development Teams and they should also verify that.  As a Field Test
member, I have loaded new and updated firmware 5 to 10 times more
frequently than other users, and I have NEVER found a change in my
configuration data after an upgrade, nor have I had a problem loading
new firmware.  I do have a few saved configuration files, but have never
felt the need to do a restore - the K3 firmware is solid for all
versions I have dealt with since I received my K3 in early January
2008.  A configuration save is not required prior to doing an upgrade,
although some may choose to do it.

73,
Don W3FPR

K2ZLS wrote:
> Hi  Don,
>
>  
>> The K3Utility versions are not related to firmware upgrades (only one
>> exception that I recall)
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[W8ZN]

I own two K3's and maintain 6 others for our contest group. I've never had even a hint of an issue with the RS232 interface loading/saving configs or firmware.

I might add to all K3 owners as I've learned after many years of working with networking gear. Load new firmware when it is available, even if you think you don't need the new features. Even though companies much bigger than Elecraft (Like Cisco) try their best to maintain backward compatability, it doesn't always work. Even if you bypass the beta's (which are more stable than most releases from other guys), the Elecraft utility is so easy to maintain full releases it just doesn't make sense not to do it.

73,

Terry
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[Dick Dievendorff]

I found an unchecked use of an MCU command (IC) that was introduced in MCU
revision 2.48 in the Save Configuration code.

I have sent a private (untested by Field Test) version of the K3 Utility
that removes this dependency to the people I'm aware of that were waiting to
save their configuration before upgrading from a very old MCU revision to a
more current firmware level.

I apologize for the oversight.

I have added a save config test using MCU 2.02 to my pre-release test suite.

If anyone else is "stuck" with an old MCU and feels it important to save
their configuration before upgrading, please send me a note.

The fix will be part of the next K3 Utility general release after it
completes Field Test.

73 de Dick, K6KR


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