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Disgrunteled Japanese

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k7zz

Disgrunteled Japanese

Was talking with a JA operator yesterday who said that Elecraft is getting a
very bad name in that country - not for their product, but because of a
business decision to have everything go through an exclusive dealer for both
sales and service. The problem (according to this operator) is that the
exclusive dealer is jacking the price up by up to 50%. Yes, it is true that
they can buy the product directly from Elecraft, but doing so puts you
without access to any tech support.

Don't know if this is the isolated case of a guy who doesn't have his facts
straight and likes to spread rumors. We've got a few of them in this
country also. But thought I'd pass this along.

73 de Tom (K7ZZ)
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Ian Maude

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese

No Tech support? When did this happen? :)

73 Ian

--
Ian J Maude, G0VGS
SysOp GB7MBC & HB9DRV-9 DX Clusters
Member RSGB, GQRP 9838, FISTS 14077 | K3 #455
http://www.amateurradiotraining.org

2010/1/4 Tom Meier <[hidden email]>

> Was talking with a JA operator yesterday who said that Elecraft is getting
> a
> very bad name in that country - not for their product, but because of a
> business decision to have everything go through an exclusive dealer for
> both
> sales and service. The problem (according to this operator) is that the
> exclusive dealer is jacking the price up by up to 50%. Yes, it is true
> that
> they can buy the product directly from Elecraft, but doing so puts you
> without access to any tech support.
>
> Don't know if this is the isolated case of a guy who doesn't have his facts
> straight and likes to spread rumors. We've got a few of them in this
> country also. But thought I'd pass this along.
>
> 73 de Tom (K7ZZ)
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese

In reply to this post by k7zz

Tom,

If he buys direct from Elecraft, he will have Tech Support direct from
Elecraft, so I would guess he does not know his facts.

He may not have access to tech support from the Japanese distributor,
but that is a different statement.

73,
Don W3FPR

Tom Meier wrote:

> Was talking with a JA operator yesterday who said that Elecraft is getting a
> very bad name in that country - not for their product, but because of a
> business decision to have everything go through an exclusive dealer for both
> sales and service. The problem (according to this operator) is that the
> exclusive dealer is jacking the price up by up to 50%. Yes, it is true that
> they can buy the product directly from Elecraft, but doing so puts you
> without access to any tech support.
>
> Don't know if this is the isolated case of a guy who doesn't have his facts
> straight and likes to spread rumors. We've got a few of them in this
> country also. But thought I'd pass this along.
>
> 73 de Tom (K7ZZ)
>
>

Fumiaki Okushi

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese

Hi everyone, this is my first post.

I also had a Japanese ham (in Japan) tell me the same story.
I found on the order page on the Elecraft site the following line:

"Note: All Japan orders (except expatriate orders) must be placed through our distributor: EDC"

This sounds to me like if you're Japanese living in Japan and ordering from Japan, you have to order through EDC.

If you go to the EDC site today, the price for the K3/10 kit is listed as 268600 yen,
which at today's exchange rate is approx $2900.

Regards,
Fumi Okushi/KB2KVV

Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Tom,
>
> If he buys direct from Elecraft, he will have Tech Support direct from
> Elecraft, so I would guess he does not know his facts.
>
> He may not have access to tech support from the Japanese distributor,
> but that is a different statement.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> Tom Meier wrote:
>> Was talking with a JA operator yesterday who said that Elecraft is getting a
>> very bad name in that country - not for their product, but because of a
>> business decision to have everything go through an exclusive dealer for both
>> sales and service. The problem (according to this operator) is that the
>> exclusive dealer is jacking the price up by up to 50%. Yes, it is true that
>> they can buy the product directly from Elecraft, but doing so puts you
>> without access to any tech support.
>>
>> Don't know if this is the isolated case of a guy who doesn't have his facts
>> straight and likes to spread rumors. We've got a few of them in this
>> country also. But thought I'd pass this along.
>>
>> 73 de Tom (K7ZZ)
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Dunc Carter - W5DC

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese

Unless the situation has changed in Japan, it's customary or perhaps
required to use a import/export company/agent for sales in Japan. Some
countries make it extremely difficult for individuals to import or
export. Although my company doesn't do any business in Japan, we do
business in other countries where this situation applies.

Dunc, W5DC

Fumiaki Okushi wrote:

> Hi everyone, this is my first post.
>
> I also had a Japanese ham (in Japan) tell me the same story.
> I found on the order page on the Elecraft site the following line:
>
> "Note: All Japan orders (except expatriate orders) must be placed through our distributor: EDC"
>
> This sounds to me like if you're Japanese living in Japan and ordering from Japan, you have to order through EDC.
>
> If you go to the EDC site today, the price for the K3/10 kit is listed as 268600 yen,
> which at today's exchange rate is approx $2900.
>
> Regards,
> Fumi Okushi/KB2KVV
>
>
> Don Wilhelm wrote:
>
>> Tom,
>>
>> If he buys direct from Elecraft, he will have Tech Support direct from
>> Elecraft, so I would guess he does not know his facts.
>>
>> He may not have access to tech support from the Japanese distributor,
>> but that is a different statement.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> Tom Meier wrote:
>>
>>> Was talking with a JA operator yesterday who said that Elecraft is getting a
>>> very bad name in that country - not for their product, but because of a
>>> business decision to have everything go through an exclusive dealer for both
>>> sales and service. The problem (according to this operator) is that the
>>> exclusive dealer is jacking the price up by up to 50%. Yes, it is true that
>>> they can buy the product directly from Elecraft, but doing so puts you
>>> without access to any tech support.
>>>
>>> Don't know if this is the isolated case of a guy who doesn't have his facts
>>> straight and likes to spread rumors. We've got a few of them in this
>>> country also. But thought I'd pass this along.
>>>
>>> 73 de Tom (K7ZZ)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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>
>

n7ws

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese

In reply to this post by k7zz

Sounds like Tokyo Hy-Power in reverse. I now get to pay dealer markup and sales tax so my L4-B will stay in service.

--- On Mon, 1/4/10, Tom Meier <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Tom Meier <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
To: [hidden email]
Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 9:30 AM

Was talking with a JA operator yesterday who said that Elecraft is getting a
very bad name in that country - not for their product, but because of a
business decision to have everything go through an exclusive dealer for both
sales and service. The problem (according to this operator) is that the
exclusive dealer is jacking the price up by up to 50%. Yes, it is true that
they can buy the product directly from Elecraft, but doing so puts you
without access to any tech support.

Don't know if this is the isolated case of a guy who doesn't have his facts
straight and likes to spread rumors. We've got a few of them in this
country also. But thought I'd pass this along.

73 de Tom (K7ZZ)

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Fumiaki Okushi

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese

In reply to this post by Dunc Carter - W5DC

From: Duncan Carter <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 10:59:57 -0700

> Unless the situation has changed in Japan, it's customary or perhaps
> required to use a import/export company/agent for sales in Japan.
> Some countries make it extremely difficult for individuals to import
> or export. Although my company doesn't do any business in Japan, we
> do business in other countries where this situation applies.

Generally speaking, import of goods by individuals is very popular in Japan.
Having said that, I don't know if there's any special requirements for radio equipments..

Regards,
Fumi Okushi/KB2KVV

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Dick Williams-2

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Has anybody tried to buy a Yaesu, Icom or Kenwood direct from Japan without
going thru their dealers in the states?

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 9:49 AM
To: Tom Meier
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese

Tom,

If he buys direct from Elecraft, he will have Tech Support direct from
Elecraft, so I would guess he does not know his facts.

He may not have access to tech support from the Japanese distributor,
but that is a different statement.

73,
Don W3FPR

Tom Meier wrote:
> Was talking with a JA operator yesterday who said that Elecraft is getting
a
> very bad name in that country - not for their product, but because of a
> business decision to have everything go through an exclusive dealer for
both
> sales and service. The problem (according to this operator) is that the
> exclusive dealer is jacking the price up by up to 50%. Yes, it is true
that
> they can buy the product directly from Elecraft, but doing so puts you
> without access to any tech support.
>
> Don't know if this is the isolated case of a guy who doesn't have his
facts
> straight and likes to spread rumors. We've got a few of them in this
> country also. But thought I'd pass this along.
>
> 73 de Tom (K7ZZ)
>
>
______________________________________________________________
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Doug Turnbull

Disgruntled Europeans

I do not know about the problems the excellent JA operators may have in
importing equipment from Elecraft directly but I do find this information
interesting. What I can tell you from personal experience is that many EU
hams look at prices in QST and CQ and just dream. It seems that one can
purchase Japanese made radios in the States for the same price in dollars as
one pays in Euros or Sterling. Okay we have VAT rates (Sales tax) that run
between 15% and 22% depending on one's country but this does not come close
to explaining the price differentials.

I believe that being able to purchase the kit K3 directly is a great plus to
Elecrafter sales in the EU. True one is a bit exposed as to service but if
one has built the kit then individual boards can be returned for service.
The K3 is small and not that heavy to ship back if needs be for that matter.
In EI if a piece of equipment breaks down it might need to be shipped off
for repair to another EU country and that might not be so inexpensive.

I believe that Elecraft is going to see a steady increase in world wide
sales as more K3s are around for people to try. Of course the weak dollar
is not hurting matters. The US needs to increase exports and the
combination of performance and price competition is going to help K3 sales.
As all hams know we live in a small world.

Happy New Year 73 Doug EI2CN

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AD4C2009

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese

In reply to this post by Fumiaki Okushi

WOW ! Hard to believe,then I imagine a fully loaded K3 will be then over 5 grands in japan with that dealer EDC?

AD4C

"For a refined ham it is compulsory to own a k3"

--- On Mon, 1/4/10, Fumiaki Okushi <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Fumiaki Okushi <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
To: [hidden email]
Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 5:45 PM

Hi everyone, this is my first post.

I also had a Japanese ham (in Japan) tell me the same story.
I found on the order page on the Elecraft site the following line:

"Note: All Japan orders (except expatriate orders) must be placed through our distributor: EDC"

This sounds to me like if you're Japanese living in Japan and ordering from Japan, you have to order through EDC.

If you go to the EDC site today, the price for the K3/10 kit is listed as 268600 yen,
which at today's exchange rate is approx $2900.

Regards,
Fumi Okushi/KB2KVV

Don Wilhelm wrote:

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Dunc Carter - W5DC

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese

In reply to this post by Dick Williams-2

Another consideration is the degree of risk in acting as your own
import/export agent. Almost all vendors sell on terms where the buyer
is the owner of the equipment once it leave the seller's facility. If
there's a problem during transit, it becomes the buyer's problem.
Insurance can help but it's not a cure-all; avoidance of claims payment
is a common practice. In many countries, getting equipment through
customs can be a real "adventure". Most countries are also familiar
with the many ruses for avoiding import duties; most have a high degree
of regulation of payment for just this reason. Attempting to avoid such
duties can produce a high risk of having the equipment confiscated.

Dunc, W5DC

Dick Williams wrote:

> Has anybody tried to buy a Yaesu, Icom or Kenwood direct from Japan without
> going thru their dealers in the states?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 9:49 AM
> To: Tom Meier
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
>
> Tom,
>
> If he buys direct from Elecraft, he will have Tech Support direct from
> Elecraft, so I would guess he does not know his facts.
>
> He may not have access to tech support from the Japanese distributor,
> but that is a different statement.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> Tom Meier wrote:
>
>> Was talking with a JA operator yesterday who said that Elecraft is getting
>>
> a
>
>> very bad name in that country - not for their product, but because of a
>> business decision to have everything go through an exclusive dealer for
>>
> both
>
>> sales and service. The problem (according to this operator) is that the
>> exclusive dealer is jacking the price up by up to 50%. Yes, it is true
>>
> that
>
>> they can buy the product directly from Elecraft, but doing so puts you
>> without access to any tech support.
>>
>> Don't know if this is the isolated case of a guy who doesn't have his
>>
> facts
>
>> straight and likes to spread rumors. We've got a few of them in this
>> country also. But thought I'd pass this along.
>>
>> 73 de Tom (K7ZZ)
>>
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> database 4743 (20100104) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> database 4743 (20100104) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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>

Bob-270

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese

In reply to this post by k7zz

That is just the same as those here in the states buying or importing
a "gray market" camera or other piece of electronics that the US dealers
or distributors will not support.

Should I be mad at Canon or Nikon? I don't think so. So the JA's
don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot.

73,
Bob
K2TK

Tom Meier wrote:

KENT TRIMBLE

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese

In reply to this post by k7zz

A couple of thoughts:

1) "Distributor jacking up the price" . . .

Heathkit did the same thing forty years ago. You had your choice of
buying direct from the factory at one price (lower), or with the
convenience of buying from a local (more or less) distributor at another
price (higher). There is not a thing wrong with this kind of
merchandising or its resultant mark-up in price. The distributor has to
stock parts, devote inventory space, hire staff, do billings, handle
returns, etc. That's why "factory direct" (regardless of the product)
is usually cheaper than through stores (although with some manufacturers
it's often just a marketing ploy resulting in little if any discount in
price).

2) "Exclusive Dealerships" . . .

When Yaesu first started importing to the United States all sales were
exclusively handled through Spectronics USA ("East" or "West"). There
was never an option of buying factory-direct from Japan. Those FT-101s
we so eagerly bought up (and in so doing put our American companies out
of business) always cost more in the US than they did in Japan. To
those of our JA brothers who are complaining about Elecraft doing the
same thing, I merely remind them that "what goes around comes around."
It's their turn now.

73,

Kent K9ZTV

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Fumiaki Okushi

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese

In reply to this post by Dunc Carter - W5DC

I would personally prefer to buy from a local distributor, for the exact reason you mention.
So I'm willing to pay a little extra for that convenience.
The question is how much will I (or more generally, one) be willing to pay for the additional convenience.

With regards to ham radio equipment, bands could be different from one country to another (and certainly the case between US and JA),
so there's another reason you might want to deal locally.

Regards,
Fumi Okushi/KB2KVV

From: Duncan Carter <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 13:51:19 -0700

> Another consideration is the degree of risk in acting as your own
> import/export agent. Almost all vendors sell on terms where the buyer
> is the owner of the equipment once it leave the seller's facility. If
> there's a problem during transit, it becomes the buyer's problem.
> Insurance can help but it's not a cure-all; avoidance of claims payment
> is a common practice. In many countries, getting equipment through
> customs can be a real "adventure". Most countries are also familiar
> with the many ruses for avoiding import duties; most have a high degree
> of regulation of payment for just this reason. Attempting to avoid such
> duties can produce a high risk of having the equipment confiscated.
>
> Dunc, W5DC
>
> Dick Williams wrote:
>> Has anybody tried to buy a Yaesu, Icom or Kenwood direct from Japan without
>> going thru their dealers in the states?

Fumiaki Okushi

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese

In reply to this post by Bob-270

From: Bob <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 15:51:51 -0500

> Should I be mad at Canon or Nikon? I don't think so. So the JA's
> don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot.

Have you actually done price comparison?
Yaesu, Kenwood, ICOM products are only slightly more expensive in the US market.
With respect to Canon and Nikon (and I believe you are referring to DSLR), they are usually cheaper in the US market (because of fierce competition).
For example, Nikon D300S (body only).
You can get it in Tokyo from Yodobashi Camera (one of the major camera stores in Japan) for 177000 yen,
which at today's exchange rate is $1900.
You can find the same D300S at Wolf Camera (US camera store chain) for $1700.

BTW, just in case I'm misunderstood, I think local distributors are okay, and some markups are okay (for the added convenience).
I believe potential JA customers will agree on this.
It's only when the markup is excessive, it becomes an issue..

Regards,
Fumi Okushi/KB2KVV
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Fumiaki Okushi

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese

In reply to this post by AD4C2009

From: Hector Padron <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 12:51:18 -0800 (PST)

> WOW ! Hard to believe,then I imagine a fully loaded K3 will be then over 5 grands in japan with that dealer EDC?

You can find the price list for K3 (and accessories) at
http://www.edcjp.jp/shop/order-K3.pdf

Note that the pdf includes Japanese so parts of the page may not render properly depending on the pdf reader you may have..

Regards,
Fumi Okushi/KB2KVV

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The Smiths

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese

In reply to this post by Fumiaki Okushi

Guys, it's obvious what's going on here:

Have you put any consideration into the fact that when Japan imports something to the US we pay almost NO import taxes, yet when something American is sent to Japan you guys stick us with almost a 40% import tax (not including the cost to ship things over seas)...
Why is it that when I send something to China in a 1 pound box it cost me $40 US. Yet when I order my cell phone parts from China, and they send the SAME 1 pound box direct it cost them only $4.50... Nothing new there either.

It's been obvious to me that America is the last country left to alow almost anything in to our country free of import/export taxes and terrifs. And you wonder why we have lower prices here?? Really?

Sorry you have to pay more there in Japan, but you'll probably need to talk to your government about that... Not Elecraft..

> Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 13:09:32 -0800
> To: [hidden email]
> From: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
>
> I would personally prefer to buy from a local distributor, for the exact reason you mention.
> So I'm willing to pay a little extra for that convenience.
> The question is how much will I (or more generally, one) be willing to pay for the additional convenience.
>
> With regards to ham radio equipment, bands could be different from one country to another (and certainly the case between US and JA),
> so there's another reason you might want to deal locally.
>
> Regards,
> Fumi Okushi/KB2KVV
>
> From: Duncan Carter <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
> Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 13:51:19 -0700
>
> > Another consideration is the degree of risk in acting as your own
> > import/export agent. Almost all vendors sell on terms where the buyer
> > is the owner of the equipment once it leave the seller's facility. If
> > there's a problem during transit, it becomes the buyer's problem.
> > Insurance can help but it's not a cure-all; avoidance of claims payment
> > is a common practice. In many countries, getting equipment through
> > customs can be a real "adventure". Most countries are also familiar
> > with the many ruses for avoiding import duties; most have a high degree
> > of regulation of payment for just this reason. Attempting to avoid such
> > duties can produce a high risk of having the equipment confiscated.
> >
> > Dunc, W5DC
> >
> > Dick Williams wrote:
> >> Has anybody tried to buy a Yaesu, Icom or Kenwood direct from Japan without
> >> going thru their dealers in the states?
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Bill W4ZV

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese

In reply to this post by Fumiaki Okushi

Fumiaki Okushi wrote

Have you actually done price comparison?
Yaesu, Kenwood, ICOM products are only slightly more expensive in the US market.
With respect to Canon and Nikon (and I believe you are referring to DSLR), they are usually cheaper in the US market (because of fierce competition).
For example, Nikon D300S (body only).
You can get it in Tokyo from Yodobashi Camera (one of the major camera stores in Japan) for 177000 yen,
which at today's exchange rate is $1900.
You can find the same D300S at Wolf Camera (US camera store chain) for $1700.

There's a lot of misinformation flowing here...Fumi-san is correct. I traveled to Japan frequently in the 70s and 80s and bought several cameras and even a (Trio nee Kenwood) TS-820S in local markets there. The savings were substantial then but, beginning in the mid-1980s, it became cheaper to buy equipment from NYC distributors, not to mention potential warranty issues...ditto for Hong Kong prices. BTW the D300S body is available for $1500 from B&H Photo shipped and even $1389 from a less trustworthy distributor.

73, Bill

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: Japanese prices ('disgruntled' thread re-titled)

Administrator

In reply to this post by The Smiths

Looks like there is a lot of confusion surrounding K3 pricing in Japan. :-)

We've worked with EDC in Japan for 10 years. They are a very small
company, owned by JA8CCL, that is honorable and that gives support above
and beyond what is normally required to their customers. That includes
fixing improperly customer built K1s, KX1s, K2s and K3s under their
'warranty' at no charge. They are a high value added distributor who
does not forget the customer once the sale is made.

I agree that the prices can look high when just comparing the raw EDC JA
price to our web price. What many do not realize is that EDC bears a lot
of import and transport expense that would normally be borne by the
customer if they buy a product direct.

The K3 prices listed by EDC also include the following ALL of the
following import and support costs that do not appear on our price list
here:

1. The local JA consumption tax. (VAT) In the US this is added to the
invoice at time of sale. In JA, EDC shows it already included on their
K3 price list.

2. Import duty entering JA.

(The above two items are computed based on the total cost of the product
on the shipper invoice, including all shipping and handling costs. )

- EDC can't fly 'under the radar' as many individuals try to do. Like
us, they are carefully watched by the import officials and have to be
squeaky clean - paying all taxes, duties etc.

3. Import shipping to JA from CA. (not cheap!)

4. Cost of handling all the customs paperwork, fee payment etc.
Especially when importing larger value and size shipments, Japan can be
one of the more time consuming bureaucracies to deal with.

5. Cost of the variation in the Yen - Dollar exchange rate.
This is significant. The exchange rate has varied between 110 and 90 yen
to the dollar over the past 18 months, 22%, and even more so over the
past 2-1/2 years. I know of specific periods over the past ten years
where EDC has actually lost money importing our products due to shifts
in the exchange rate.

6. Cost of funds to carry inventory. EDC orders many of our products
well ahead of time and stocks them at their cost, tying up funds that
could be used elsewhere.

7. Cost to pay for their offices, test equipment and employees.

EDC also carries all of the cost of advertising in the JA local market.
Ads in JA CQ are way more expensive than QST.

They also translate all of our manuals into Japanese. Not an easy
undertaking.

On top of these costs they also need to make a small profit. It isn't
much, based on what I've observed. (He makes most of his revenue from
designing custom medical equipment and custom hard disk drive
manufacturing test equipment.)

To be honest, JA8CCL does this out of his love for the hobby, and out of
a personal friendship with me going back 20 years. Once he sells a
product to a customer, he supports them for life. Period. He has a large
following of loyal customers, many who have emailed us directly to
compliment EDC on their support.

That said, we're also always working with them to try to get the JA EDC
price lower. Its a challenge, but we'll keep working on it. There is not
a lot of margin to play with in the ham radio market.

While others have pointed out that its difficult, if not impossible, to
buy most JA manufactured top end radios directly from Japan, please
let's not let this thread degenerate into a pro-con of one manufacturer
or government against another.

Rather than tie up the reflector with an extended conversation on this,
please feel free to email me directly with any comments and suggestions
you might have.

73, Eric WA6HHQ
----

>> Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 13:09:32 -0800
>> To: [hidden email]
>> From: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
>>
>> I would personally prefer to buy from a local distributor, for the exact reason you mention.
>> So I'm willing to pay a little extra for that convenience.
>> The question is how much will I (or more generally, one) be willing to pay for the additional convenience.
>>
>> With regards to ham radio equipment, bands could be different from one country to another (and certainly the case between US and JA), so there's another reason you might want to deal locally.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Fumi Okushi/KB2KVV
>>
>> From: Duncan Carter <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
>> Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 13:51:19 -0700
>>
>>
>>> Another consideration is the degree of risk in acting as your own
>>> import/export agent. Almost all vendors sell on terms where the buyer
>>> is the owner of the equipment once it leave the seller's facility. If
>>> there's a problem during transit, it becomes the buyer's problem.
>>> Insurance can help but it's not a cure-all; avoidance of claims payment
>>> is a common practice. In many countries, getting equipment through
>>> customs can be a real "adventure". Most countries are also familiar
>>> with the many ruses for avoiding import duties; most have a high degree
>>> of regulation of payment for just this reason. Attempting to avoid such
>>> duties can produce a high risk of having the equipment confiscated.
>>>
>>> Dunc, W5DC
>>>
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Julian, G4ILO

Re: Disgruntled Europeans

In reply to this post by Doug Turnbull

Doug Turnbull wrote

Many EU hams look at prices in QST and CQ and just dream. It seems that one can
purchase Japanese made radios in the States for the same price in dollars as
one pays in Euros or Sterling.

It's really a dream. There are so many hidden costs that much of the saving gets eaten up by the time the product gets here. I just did a quick example of a Yaesu VX-8R, listed by Universal Radio at $379. Add on say $50 for international shipping. That comes to GBP 268 (£1 = $1.60) You'll be charged 17.5% VAT on arrival here plus a GBP 13 tax collection fee bringing the total to GBP 328. Nevada Radio is selling the EU version (VX-8E) for GBP 338. So ten quid gets you the EU version plus a locally supported warranty.

I believe that being able to purchase the kit K3 directly is a great plus to
Elecrafter sales in the EU. True one is a bit exposed as to service but if
one has built the kit then individual boards can be returned for service.
The K3 is small and not that heavy to ship back if needs be for that matter.

I wonder if those who have actually had to ship a K3 back to the US from Europe would agree? I know for a fact that whenever I write on my website or blog about something I bought in the US I get emails from hams asking where in the UK they can order. Many in our hobby are a pretty conservative bunch and will not buy from outside the UK. I think Elecraft could actually be losing sales by not selling through local dealers, not least because there are some people with money burning a hole in their pocket who go to Martin Lynch or W&S on a Saturday morning looking for a new toy to take home and play with, and if there isn't a K3 there to try out they'll buy something else instead.

However I suspect if Elecraft did sell through UK dealers the extra cost to us would be a lot more than in my Yaesu example because there is no dealer mark-up in the price we pay from Elecraft, whereas the Japanese manufacturers have local offices and dealers taking their cut on both sides of the Atlantic. So carry on selling direct, please. :)

Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html