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Diversity Mode - DATA-A

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vk4cmv

Diversity Mode - DATA-A

I've been playing around with diversity mode on 40m - having just put up a vertical off to the side of a horizontal dipole.

I have to say, listening to 40m is a delight with diversity turned on - CW and Phone signals just float around in space when you're wearing the headphones - very 3D. I haven't been playing with it long enough to tell whether its going to assist copy or not - but certainly an interesting effect and preferable to how it was before.

Anyway, the real reason for the vertical was to get a bit more RX traction on 7.076 JT65a - looks like I need to put out more radials because the dipole is still winning by a few db.

So, I'm presuming that in DATA-A mode, each antenna is effectively being heard on respective L & R channels on the line-out jack? It looks that way, just want to confirm that it's the same as what's coming through the headphones.

I've also set up a macro in HRD to send !BEFF to the rig which, according to previous posts, combines the audio in diversity mode. Having done that, I had this sneaking feeling that I was copying (decoding) better - but it could be wishful thinking and needs proper testing, not just playing around.

When I say decoding better - it's not just a matter of dBs, it's a matter of the reception holding together for a full 48 seconds in each minute through QRM & QRN.

Anyone else out there tried diversity in DATA-A?

rgds, Julian VK4CMV

PS: Any news on when VOX is going to be implemented on a per-mode basis, ie. DATA-A vs Phone?

Brendan Minish

Re: Diversity Mode - DATA-A

Don't combine! when signals are present on both antennas they may cancel
out due to phase differences on arrival (&/or within the K3)
Ideally the software should process each path separately and handle
extracting the signal

On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 16:52 -0700, vk4cmv wrote:

> I've also set up a macro in HRD to send !BEFF to the rig which, according to
> previous posts, combines the audio in diversity mode. Having done that, I
> had this sneaking feeling that I was copying (decoding) better - but it
> could be wishful thinking and needs proper testing, not just playing around.
>
> When I say decoding better - it's not just a matter of dBs, it's a matter of
> the reception holding together for a full 48 seconds in each minute through
> QRM & QRN.
>
> Anyone else out there tried diversity in DATA-A?
>
> rgds, Julian VK4CMV
>
> PS: Any news on when VOX is going to be implemented on a per-mode basis, ie.
> DATA-A vs Phone?
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Diversity-Mode-DATA-A-tp6481155p6481155.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
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--
73
Brendan EI6IZ

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Nr4c

Re: Diversity Mode - DATA-A

In reply to this post by vk4cmv

The K3 "line out" jack is MONO. Nothing beyond the K3 is gonna see two
signals. It might be combined in the K3 audio circuit, I didn't look this
up.

...bc nr4c

-----Original Message-----
From: vk4cmv [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 7:53 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Diversity Mode - DATA-A

I've been playing around with diversity mode on 40m - having just put up a
vertical off to the side of a horizontal dipole.

I have to say, listening to 40m is a delight with diversity turned on - CW
and Phone signals just float around in space when you're wearing the
headphones - very 3D. I haven't been playing with it long enough to tell
whether its going to assist copy or not - but certainly an interesting
effect and preferable to how it was before.

Anyway, the real reason for the vertical was to get a bit more RX traction
on 7.076 JT65a - looks like I need to put out more radials because the
dipole is still winning by a few db.

So, I'm presuming that in DATA-A mode, each antenna is effectively being
heard on respective L & R channels on the line-out jack? It looks that way,
just want to confirm that it's the same as what's coming through the
headphones.

I've also set up a macro in HRD to send !BEFF to the rig which, according to
previous posts, combines the audio in diversity mode. Having done that, I
had this sneaking feeling that I was copying (decoding) better - but it
could be wishful thinking and needs proper testing, not just playing around.

When I say decoding better - it's not just a matter of dBs, it's a matter of
the reception holding together for a full 48 seconds in each minute through
QRM & QRN.

Anyone else out there tried diversity in DATA-A?

rgds, Julian VK4CMV

PS: Any news on when VOX is going to be implemented on a per-mode basis, ie.
DATA-A vs Phone?

--
View this message in context:
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Diversity-Mode-DATA-A-tp6481155p6481155
.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Diversity Mode - DATA-A

> The K3 "line out" jack is MONO.

That is *INCORRECT*. The Line Out jack is stereo with Main RX on
the tip (left) and Sub RX on the ring (right). You need software
designed for diversity reception - each audio stream should be
decoded separately and the data combined after decoding.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 6/15/2011 10:39 PM, Bill Conkling wrote:

> The K3 "line out" jack is MONO. Nothing beyond the K3 is gonna see two
> signals. It might be combined in the K3 audio circuit, I didn't look this
> up.
>
> ...bc nr4c
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vk4cmv [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 7:53 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] Diversity Mode - DATA-A
>
> I've been playing around with diversity mode on 40m - having just put up a
> vertical off to the side of a horizontal dipole.
>
> I have to say, listening to 40m is a delight with diversity turned on - CW
> and Phone signals just float around in space when you're wearing the
> headphones - very 3D. I haven't been playing with it long enough to tell
> whether its going to assist copy or not - but certainly an interesting
> effect and preferable to how it was before.
>
> Anyway, the real reason for the vertical was to get a bit more RX traction
> on 7.076 JT65a - looks like I need to put out more radials because the
> dipole is still winning by a few db.
>
> So, I'm presuming that in DATA-A mode, each antenna is effectively being
> heard on respective L& R channels on the line-out jack? It looks that way,
> just want to confirm that it's the same as what's coming through the
> headphones.
>
> I've also set up a macro in HRD to send !BEFF to the rig which, according to
> previous posts, combines the audio in diversity mode. Having done that, I
> had this sneaking feeling that I was copying (decoding) better - but it
> could be wishful thinking and needs proper testing, not just playing around.
>
> When I say decoding better - it's not just a matter of dBs, it's a matter of
> the reception holding together for a full 48 seconds in each minute through
> QRM& QRN.
>
> Anyone else out there tried diversity in DATA-A?
>
> rgds, Julian VK4CMV
>
> PS: Any news on when VOX is going to be implemented on a per-mode basis, ie.
> DATA-A vs Phone?
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Diversity-Mode-DATA-A-tp6481155p6481155
> .html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Diversity Mode - DATA-A

In reply to this post by Nr4c

Bill,

Look more closely - the LINE IN is mono, but LINE OUT has both channels
active. If you do not have the SubRX installed, you will only see
output on the left channel (from the main RX), but if the sub-RX is
installed, the right channel is also active with audio from the SubRX.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/15/2011 10:39 PM, Bill Conkling wrote:

vk4cmv

Re: Diversity Mode - DATA-A

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Hi Joe et al -

I've read the very informative notes from W8JI http://www.w8ji.com/polarization_and_diversity.htm - and the previous lengthy & sometimes heated thread of posts on this forum. Very interesting.

In the end of the day, it looks like some kind of voting system would be required to take the 'good bits' from each stream of data (antenna).

At least with a mode like JT65a there is some hope of building that into the software - there's even two decoders built in, if the signal fails on the B decoder, the K decoder is tried - which is a voting system of sorts.

I think the relevant bit of Joe Taylor's code is written in FORTRAN - so I'd better go and brush up on COMPLEX*16 variables.

73 Julian

Nr4c

Re: Diversity Mode - DATA-A

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 22:52:50 -0400, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>> The K3 "line out" jack is MONO.
>
> That is *INCORRECT*. The Line Out jack is stereo with Main RX on
> the tip (left) and Sub RX on the ring (right). You need software
> designed for diversity reception - each audio stream should be
> decoded separately and the data combined after decoding.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 6/15/2011 10:39 PM, Bill Conkling wrote:
>> The K3 "line out" jack is MONO. Nothing beyond the K3 is gonna see
>> two
>> signals. It might be combined in the K3 audio circuit, I didn't
>> look this
>> up.
>>
>> ...bc nr4c
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: vk4cmv [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 7:53 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: [Elecraft] Diversity Mode - DATA-A
>>
>> I've been playing around with diversity mode on 40m - having just
>> put up a
>> vertical off to the side of a horizontal dipole.
>>
>> I have to say, listening to 40m is a delight with diversity turned
>> on - CW
>> and Phone signals just float around in space when you're wearing the
>> headphones - very 3D. I haven't been playing with it long enough to
>> tell
>> whether its going to assist copy or not - but certainly an
>> interesting
>> effect and preferable to how it was before.
>>
>> Anyway, the real reason for the vertical was to get a bit more RX
>> traction
>> on 7.076 JT65a - looks like I need to put out more radials because
>> the
>> dipole is still winning by a few db.
>>
>> So, I'm presuming that in DATA-A mode, each antenna is effectively
>> being
>> heard on respective L& R channels on the line-out jack? It looks
>> that way,
>> just want to confirm that it's the same as what's coming through the
>> headphones.
>>
>> I've also set up a macro in HRD to send !BEFF to the rig which,
>> according to
>> previous posts, combines the audio in diversity mode. Having done
>> that, I
>> had this sneaking feeling that I was copying (decoding) better - but
>> it
>> could be wishful thinking and needs proper testing, not just playing
>> around.
>>
>> When I say decoding better - it's not just a matter of dBs, it's a
>> matter of
>> the reception holding together for a full 48 seconds in each minute
>> through
>> QRM& QRN.
>>
>> Anyone else out there tried diversity in DATA-A?
>>
>> rgds, Julian VK4CMV
>>
>> PS: Any news on when VOX is going to be implemented on a per-mode
>> basis, ie.

OOOPSS!!!

I even looked it up, but I was thinking OUT, and reading IN. It's the
LINE IN that is MONO. Sorry for the confusion.

...bc nr4c

OOPS!!!>> DATA-A vs Phone?

>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>>
>> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Diversity-Mode-DATA-A-tp6481155p6481155
>> .html
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html