Does K2 benefit from simple Microham interfaces?
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Is there any advantage in using a simple microham interface like USB2 or CW keyer for K3?
It seems that the serial cable can provide both radio control + CW keying+PTT. The data connection is straight. There are provisions for separate paddle. Not sure how RTTY would be handled without an interface. I understand advantages of interfaces in more complex situations like SO2R or when a single USB connection with the computer is desirable. Ignacy |
RE: Does K2 benefit from simple Microham interfaces?
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My experience is that keying the radio via RS-232 control lines is sometimes
problematic with some logging programs using a multi-tasking operating systems (like Windows NT and its derivatives), and that problem doesn't always show up until the log is large and you're late into the contest. I find a WinKey to be very convenient. The K3 does allow a computer program to send CW using K3 commands sent over the K3's serial port (see the KY command in the K3 Programmer's reference). However none of the popular contest logging programs support this method of sending CW. I'd ask Joe Subich, W4TV, who would know the answer to your question. Dick, K6KR -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ignacy Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 5:52 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: [Elecraft] Does K2 benefit from simple Microham interfaces? Is there any advantage in using a simple microham interface like USB2 or CW keyer for K3? It seems that the serial cable can provide both radio control + CW keying+PTT. The data connection is straight. There are provisions for separate paddle. Not sure how RTTY would be handled without an interface. I understand advantages of interfaces in more complex situations like SO2R or when a single USB connection with the computer is desirable. Ignacy -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Does-K2-benefit-from-simple-Microham-interfaces--tp1473 656p1473656.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: Does K2 benefit from simple Microham interfaces?
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Is the reason for this that the amount of time the program spends dupe checking increases as the log grows, and this pre-empts the time critical keying process?
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
RE: Does K2 benefit from simple Microham interfaces?
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In reply to this post by Dick Dievendorff
Dick's comments are on point. Simple DTR CW has problems and CW Keyer offers both WinKey and a USB interface. Other than USB vs. RS-232, USB Interface II does not offer any value added for the K3. The situation changes significantly if one is talking about digital modes, DVK, contesting, etc. with one of the more advanced interfaces. 73, ... Joe, W4TV > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dick > Dievendorff > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 9:20 AM > To: 'Ignacy'; [hidden email] > Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Does K2 benefit from simple Microham > interfaces? > > > My experience is that keying the radio via RS-232 control > lines is sometimes problematic with some logging programs > using a multi-tasking operating systems (like Windows NT and > its derivatives), and that problem doesn't always show up > until the log is large and you're late into the contest. I > find a WinKey to be very convenient. > > The K3 does allow a computer program to send CW using K3 > commands sent over the K3's serial port (see the KY command > in the K3 Programmer's reference). However none of the > popular contest logging programs support this method of sending CW. > > I'd ask Joe Subich, W4TV, who would know the answer to your question. > > Dick, K6KR > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ignacy > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 5:52 AM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: [Elecraft] Does K2 benefit from simple Microham interfaces? > > > Is there any advantage in using a simple microham interface > like USB2 or CW keyer for K3? > > It seems that the serial cable can provide both radio control + CW > keying+PTT. The data connection is straight. There are provisions for > separate paddle. Not sure how RTTY would be handled without > an interface. > > I understand advantages of interfaces in more complex > situations like SO2R or when a single USB connection with the > computer is desirable. > > > Ignacy > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://n2.nabble.com/Does-K2-benefit-from-simple-Microham-inte 656p1473656.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: Does K2 benefit from simple Microham interfaces?
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In reply to this post by Julian, G4ILO
Probably. Any of a number of unexpected task switches cause CW keying to be
interrupted. The ones I can think of are: 1) Virus checker phoning home for a file update. 2) Virus checker starts a file scan. 3) Adobe decides it needs to phone home to check for updates. 4) Apple QuickTime decides it needs to phone home to check for updates. 5) Microsoft Windows Update decides it needs to phone home to check for updates. 6) Sun Java virtual machine decides it needs to phone home to check for updates. 7) Real Player decides it needs to phone home to check for updates. 8) Spyware scan starts. 9) Content indexing starts or 10) Contest log gets large and check partial or rescoring takes more time. These are mostly activities that can be turned off if you know how to do it and are vigilant. After the contest you probably want to turn them back on again. I don't always remember and don't always find them all. So I use a WinKey (in a microHAM box) and all I have to remember to turn off is the screen saver. 73 de Dick, K6KR -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Julian, G4ILO Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:08 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Does K2 benefit from simple Microham interfaces? Dick Dievendorff wrote: > > My experience is that keying the radio via RS-232 control lines is > sometimes > problematic with some logging programs using a multi-tasking operating > systems (like Windows NT and its derivatives), and that problem doesn't > always show up until the log is large and you're late into the contest. > Is the reason for this that the amount of time the program spends dupe checking increases as the log grows, and this pre-empts the time critical keying process? ----- Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directory http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Does-K2-benefit-from-simple-Microham-interfaces--tp1473 656p1473817.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: Does K2 benefit from simple Microham interfaces?
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In reply to this post by Julian, G4ILO
I'm not exactly sure of the timing requirements, but sending well-formed CW
at 30+ words per minute requires timer resolutions in the low numbers of millisecond range. This can be done with high resolution timers (introduced for multi-media), but you need to have the process priority right so that the program that is turning the serial port (or parallel port) control lines on and off can get control within a very few milliseconds of the desired time. Often higher priority things like disk I/O interrupt handlers and programs that are I/O intensive can keep control away from the (user priority) program doing CW long enough to cause grief. Disk I/O from paging in programs is often a higher priority task than any user-mode program. I've seen some low-level device driver level solutions (I recall N6TV wrote one for OS/2) that can get close, but this isn't the way that the popular logging programs do it. I'd recommend a WinKey. Standalone it costs a few tens of dollars (the basic K1EL Winkeyer2 serial is only $36), and if you're into contesting at all you'll find that it eliminates a problem that can cause great consternation at really unfortunate times. I use microHAM products that incorporate WinKey chips. They work quite well for me. Dick, K6KR -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Julian, G4ILO Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:08 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Does K2 benefit from simple Microham interfaces? Dick Dievendorff wrote: > > My experience is that keying the radio via RS-232 control lines is > sometimes > problematic with some logging programs using a multi-tasking operating > systems (like Windows NT and its derivatives), and that problem doesn't > always show up until the log is large and you're late into the contest. > Is the reason for this that the amount of time the program spends dupe checking increases as the log grows, and this pre-empts the time critical keying process? ----- Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directory http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Does-K2-benefit-from-simple-Microham-interfaces--tp1473 656p1473817.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Does K2 benefit from simple Microham interfaces?
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In reply to this post by Ignacy
On Sat, 8 Nov 2008 05:52:28 -0800 (PST), Ignacy wrote:
>Is there any advantage in using a simple microham interface like USB2 or >CW keyer for K3? For five years of serious contesting, I've never used anything more complicated than a serial cable and breakout of DTR through an NPN to the key jack to send CW. I've used this with WriteLog and N1MM with a K2, K3, TS850, Omni V, FT1000MP, and IC746 with no problems in a SINGLE RADIO setup. The computers I use have REAL serial ports, not USB-derived ports. One has no built-in serial port, so I use ports from a Quantech PCMCIA card, which act like real serial ports. The K3 has the advantage of not needing the NPN -- you use a menu selection to tell the K3 to get CW from DTR and it does it internally. You can also plug a paddle into a K3 to send "live." The K2 manual shows how you can use diodes to feed both a computer and a paddle into the keying input. Most other radios don't allow both computer keying and paddle keying, so I use an outboard keyer and diodes to isolate the computer keying from the keyer. The manner in which WriteLog and N1MM send CW causes problems with SO2R (single operator, two radios) operation using this simple setup, and is a good reason for using something like WinKey, which with software that supports it can switch CW between two radios. Most popular contesting software does. For SSB contesting, I'm successfully using N1MM and the stereo out of my sound card to drive two radios, with VOX doing TX/RX switching. My "live" mic goes to the input of the sound card, and N1MM switches both the live mic and message playback to left or right radio. To listen, I have a headphone Y-cable that gets left ear from one radio and right ear from the other, and use audio gain controls on the two radios to pick where I want to listen. The nice thing about fancier SO2R boxes is that they give you more control of what you're listening to. Also, USB to serial converters are notoriously flaky (CW problems, control problems, crashing computer problems), so having one that is known to work is a BIG plus. Another big plus for the Microham stuff is the high level of support that Joe Subich provides. For details of what I'm doing and various ways of doing it "on the cheap," http://audiosystemsgroup.com/HamInterfacing.pdf and http://audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf 73, Jim Brown K9YC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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>For five years of serious contesting, I've never used anything more >complicated than a serial cable and breakout of DTR through an NPN to the >key jack to send CW. Seems it may work. I have 2 Microham boxes and they work fine. I am just trying to find out whether one can reduce the box and cable count especially when oprtating portable. >Also, USB to serial converters are >notoriously flaky (CW problems, control problems, crashing computer >problems), so having one that is known to work is a BIG plus. Many new laptops do not have serial ports. Are there any USB/serial adapters that are reliable for CW? >Another big >plus for the Microham stuff is the high level of support that Joe Subich >provides. No question about that; Joe explained a few problems that I had in no time... Ignacy, NO9E |
Re: Does K2 benefit from simple Microham interfaces?
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On Sat, 8 Nov 2008 13:12:14 -0800 (PST), Ignacy wrote:
>I am just trying to find out whether one can reduce the box and cable >count especially when oprtating portable. The point of my long email is that YES, nothing more than a GOOD serial interface and good contesting software will do anything you need on a K3 for CW, and all you need to add for SSB or RTTY are the audio cables. 73, Jim K9YC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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