ESSB- What About Pactor III?

[W2AGN-2]

Everyone gets into such a high dudgeon about ESSB, but I see no one here
complaining about PACTOR III, which is a proprietary mode which takes up the
same bandwidth as a SSB signal, but is allowed in the "data" parts of the bands,
INCLUDING 30M. Not only that, but it is employed by dozens of "robot" stations,
whose purpose is to pass EMAIL on the Ham Bands. This is a lot more threat to
the bands than a few experimenters playing with ESSB, since the ARRL is pushing
the email forwarding, or "Winlink," as the "be all, end all" of Emergency
Communications.

And yes, you can probably run it with your K3. Just spring another $1000+ for a
modem from SCS (a German Company) and you can get on the bandwagon.
--
---
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 / \  / \  / \  / \  / \   John L. Sielke
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[Julian, G4ILO]

On 8/13/07, W2AGN <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Everyone gets into such a high dudgeon about ESSB, but I see no one here
> complaining about PACTOR III, which is a proprietary mode which takes up the
> same bandwidth as a SSB signal, but is allowed in the "data" parts of the bands,
> INCLUDING 30M. Not only that, but it is employed by dozens of "robot" stations,
> whose purpose is to pass EMAIL on the Ham Bands. This is a lot more threat to
> the bands than a few experimenters playing with ESSB, since the ARRL is pushing
> the email forwarding, or "Winlink," as the "be all, end all" of Emergency
> Communications.

Many digimode enthusiasts do get annoyed about PACTOR robot stations.
But mostly the digital modes each keep to different areas of the
digital sub-band and there is not very much conflict - unless you're
using some new mode somebody has just written a program for, in which
case you aren't welcome anywhere. :) Excepting contests, there is not
usually any trouble finding a clear frequency to operate on in the
digital sub-bands. The number of phone users is probably orders of
magnitude greater than the number of data users so the potential for
trouble if a new wider band sort of phone catches on is far greater.
--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com
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[Thom LaCosta]

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007, W2AGN wrote:

> Everyone gets into such a high dudgeon about ESSB, but I see no one here
> complaining about PACTOR III

Perhaps it's because it's officially sanctioned by the ARRL.  Mayhaps the folks
who want ESSB need to joing the sailboaters and pitch to them that hi fi SSB is
the way to go.

After all, we should not be deprived of hearing the spars, and yard arms and
sails snpping in the wind.

Oh yes, and for those who espoused PACTOR III to assist in third word countries,
ESSB would allow us to hear each gentle nuance of thanks from the poor folks who
get digital aid.

What the heck...why not simply outlaw all of our old fashioned modes...after it
It's only a hobby.

73 k3hrn
Thom,EIEIO
Email, Internet, Electronic Information Officer

www.baltimorehon.com/                    Home of the Baltimore Lexicon
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[Clark B. Wierda]

I'm sure that will change now that it has been mentioned.

As the elecraft community are largely builders and experimenters, the
closed aspect of Pactor-III doesn't generate the interest that would
otherwise drive the discussion.  As a protocol, Pactor-III is trying to
increase the throughput of a data transfer and it is reasonably successful
under the right conditions.  The usefulness versus the cost in bandwidth
is another issue.

The bigger problem is WinLink 2000 and how it is used.  Proper amateur
practice requires monitoring the signal to ensure you are not interfering
with existing communication.  The issue arrises from the WinLink operators
who fire up radio connected to the computer and let it go.  Frequently,
they aren't even listening and WinLink cannot "hear" anything that isn't
another WinLink end-point.  Everything else is "noise" which WinLink
addresses by retrying until it succeeds.

Similarly, if the widebanders were only using their capability when they
weren't impacting others, there wouldn't be the strong response.
--
Clark B. Wierda
N8CBW


> Everyone gets into such a high dudgeon about ESSB, but I see no one here
> complaining about PACTOR III, ...

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[ac0h]

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Julian G4ILO wrote:

> Many digimode enthusiasts do get annoyed about PACTOR robot stations.
> But mostly the digital modes each keep to different areas of the
> digital sub-band and there is not very much conflict - unless you're
> using some new mode somebody has just written a program for, in which
> case you aren't welcome anywhere. :) Excepting contests, there is not
> usually any trouble finding a clear frequency to operate on in the
> digital sub-bands. The number of phone users is probably orders of
> magnitude greater than the number of data users so the potential for
> trouble if a new wider band sort of phone catches on is far greater.

This is true now.

The ARRL's petition to our FCC to regulate the HF bands by bandwidth
instead of mode would have cut those wide band PactorIII alligators
loose on all of SSB portions of the HF bands. Thankfully the yelling and
gnashing of teeth was loud enough to give the boys in Newington pause
for thought. The comments against were running at about 85% against on
the FCC's ECFS comment system. They withdrew the petition.

Even within the data sub bands PactorIII is proving to be a QRM
generator of biblical proportion. It's nothing to have your ongoing
PSK/RTTY/Packet QSO killed by one of these QRM bots. All in the name of
doing something on HF, passing email, that is better done at VHF and
above for emergency communications, or by other commercial services such
as Sail Mail on HF for "yachtsmen" and RVers. The internet's already
been done, cheaper, better, faster than amateur radio will ever be able
to do it.

- --
R. Kevin Stover, ACØH
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