ESSB and the rules

[John Payne-7]

N2DTS: "I don't understand why some people like to limit other
peoplesactivity, or choices."

Excerpted from FCC rules Part 97:

§97.307 Emission standards.

(a) No amateur station transmission shall occupy more bandwidth than
necessary for the information rate and emission type being transmitted,
in accordance with good amateur practice.

(b) Emissions resulting from modulation must be confined to the band or
segment available to the control operator. Emissions outside the
necessary bandwidth must not cause splatter or keyclick interference to
operations on adjacent frequencies.

It's the law!!  Minimum practical bandwidth, no splatter, no spurs.  FCC
can and will cite stations for violations.

73 de W4CWZ

--
"The real proof that there is intelligent life in outer space is that they haven't come here."


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[Brett Howard]

Hell if you wanna go that far I can hear and understand SSB as long as
things are lined up properly at 1.5Khz.  Its fairly common during field day
that I'll use 1.5 to 1.7 Khz.  Why are so many people wasting bandwidth
transmitting any wider than that?

One could also argue that ESSB is an emission type that requires that
additional bandwidth in order to move all the data.  AM uses a lot of
bandwidth to get the data across and that is a perfectly legal and allowed
emission type.  

Personally I don't do ESSB and don't even have the filters to do so.  But
using this set of rules to state that you shouldn't do ESSB is the same as
saying that no one should use SSB because they could carry out the
communications via CW in less bandwidth.  

~BTH

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of John Payne
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 7:15 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] ESSB and the rules

N2DTS: "I don't understand why some people like to limit other
peoplesactivity, or choices."

Excerpted from FCC rules Part 97:

§97.307 Emission standards.

(a) No amateur station transmission shall occupy more bandwidth than
necessary for the information rate and emission type being transmitted,
in accordance with good amateur practice.

(b) Emissions resulting from modulation must be confined to the band or
segment available to the control operator. Emissions outside the
necessary bandwidth must not cause splatter or keyclick interference to
operations on adjacent frequencies.

It's the law!!  Minimum practical bandwidth, no splatter, no spurs.  FCC
can and will cite stations for violations.

73 de W4CWZ

--
"The real proof that there is intelligent life in outer space is that they
haven't come here."

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[David Gilbert]

Brett, reread part (a) of the FCC rules below.  The maximum bandwidth
requirement is applied to each individual emission type (mode).  The FCC
acknowledges the right to use voice modes like SSB and even AM ... it
just says you shouldn't abuse the bandwidth when you do so.

Dave   AB7E


Brett Howard wrote:

> But using this set of rules to state that you shouldn't do ESSB is the same as
> saying that no one should use SSB because they could carry out the
> communications via CW in less bandwidth.  
>
> ~BTH
>
>
>
> Excerpted from FCC rules Part 97:
>
> §97.307 Emission standards.
>
> (a) No amateur station transmission shall occupy more bandwidth than
> necessary for the information rate and emission type being transmitted,
> in accordance with good amateur practice.
>
> (b) Emissions resulting from modulation must be confined to the band or
> segment available to the control operator. Emissions outside the
> necessary bandwidth must not cause splatter or keyclick interference to
> operations on adjacent frequencies.
>
> It's the law!!  Minimum practical bandwidth, no splatter, no spurs.  FCC
> can and will cite stations for violations.
>
> 73 de W4CWZ
>
>  

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[Brett Howard]

Read my message again.  ESSB is a mode!  I'm saying that people who claim
ESSB is wasteful then why can't CW ops say that SSB is wasteful?

~BTH

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Gilbert
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 10:38 AM
To: elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] ESSB and the rules


Brett, reread part (a) of the FCC rules below.  The maximum bandwidth
requirement is applied to each individual emission type (mode).  The FCC
acknowledges the right to use voice modes like SSB and even AM ... it
just says you shouldn't abuse the bandwidth when you do so.

Dave   AB7E


Brett Howard wrote:
> But using this set of rules to state that you shouldn't do ESSB is the
same as

> saying that no one should use SSB because they could carry out the
> communications via CW in less bandwidth.  
>
> ~BTH
>
>
>
> Excerpted from FCC rules Part 97:
>
> §97.307 Emission standards.
>
> (a) No amateur station transmission shall occupy more bandwidth than
> necessary for the information rate and emission type being transmitted,
> in accordance with good amateur practice.
>
> (b) Emissions resulting from modulation must be confined to the band or
> segment available to the control operator. Emissions outside the
> necessary bandwidth must not cause splatter or keyclick interference to
> operations on adjacent frequencies.
>
> It's the law!!  Minimum practical bandwidth, no splatter, no spurs.  FCC
> can and will cite stations for violations.
>
> 73 de W4CWZ
>
>  

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[Joe Subich, W4TV-4]

> Read my message again.  ESSB is a mode!

ESSB is NOT a mode ... it is a "wide" version of SSB
analogous to the difference between 20.0A3 (Standard
broadcast AM) and 6.0A3A (6 KHz wide "communications
service" AM).  

When the FCC rules were written, the "minimum bandwidth"
requirement meant exactly that amateurs were not to use
20.0A3 instead of 6.0A3 nor were Amateurs to use other
similarly "wide" modes like 850 Hz shift RTTY instead
of 170 Hz shift, etc.

The minimum bandwidth requirements also prohibit other
emission artifacts - like key clicks and excessively
"sharp" keying waveforms on CW and incidental phase or
frequency modulation on phone.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Brett Howard
> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 3:12 PM
> To: 'David Gilbert'; 'elecraft'
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] ESSB and the rules
>
>
> Read my message again.  ESSB is a mode!  I'm saying that
> people who claim ESSB is wasteful then why can't CW ops say
> that SSB is wasteful?
>
> ~BTH
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Gilbert
> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 10:38 AM
> To: elecraft
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] ESSB and the rules
>
>
> Brett, reread part (a) of the FCC rules below.  The maximum bandwidth
> requirement is applied to each individual emission type
> (mode).  The FCC
> acknowledges the right to use voice modes like SSB and even AM ... it
> just says you shouldn't abuse the bandwidth when you do so.
>
> Dave   AB7E
>
>
> Brett Howard wrote:
> > But using this set of rules to state that you shouldn't do
> ESSB is the
> same as
> > saying that no one should use SSB because they could carry out the
> > communications via CW in less bandwidth.
> >
> > ~BTH
> >
> >
> >
> > Excerpted from FCC rules Part 97:
> >
> > §97.307 Emission standards.
> >
> > (a) No amateur station transmission shall occupy more bandwidth than
> > necessary for the information rate and emission type being
> transmitted,
> > in accordance with good amateur practice.
> >
> > (b) Emissions resulting from modulation must be confined to
> the band
> > or
> > segment available to the control operator. Emissions outside the
> > necessary bandwidth must not cause splatter or keyclick
> interference to
> > operations on adjacent frequencies.
> >
> > It's the law!!  Minimum practical bandwidth, no splatter,
> no spurs.  
> > FCC
> > can and will cite stations for violations.
> >
> > 73 de W4CWZ
> >
> >  
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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[David Gilbert]

Not according to the FCC ....

Dave   AB7E


Brett Howard wrote:
> Read my message again.  ESSB is a mode!
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[Julian, G4ILO]

Ron D'Eau Claire wrote

I have been on the air long enough to remember when there were serious
arguments for banishing all "phone" from the HF bands as a huge
spectrum-waster. Compared to CW and even most other digital modes, it
certainly is!

Though if you want a fair comparison, I suppose you should multiply the bandwidth used by the time factor needed to convey the same information. There aren't many CW ops who can send as fast as they can speak. :)

[KK7P]

>> I have been on the air long enough to remember when there were serious
>> arguments for banishing all "phone" from the HF bands as a huge
>> spectrum-waster. Compared to CW and even most other digital modes, it
>> certainly is!
>>
> Though if you want a fair comparison, I suppose you should multiply the
> bandwidth used by the time factor needed to convey the same information.
> There aren't many CW ops who can send as fast as they can speak. :)

Spectral power density is a good way to express how to deal with this.
It is how CDMA cellphones use very low power, but lots of bandwidth,
versus TDMA (GSM) which use high peak power, but less bandwidth per
call.  For a given cell band, CDMA can handle more calls.  SO for a
given Amateur band...

Of course, it quickly gets very complex :-)

73,

Lyle KK7P

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[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ]

Folks,

Let's end this thread discussing ESSB and the FCC rules.

73, Eric
Elecraft List Moderator
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